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* Unions representing both city and state police officers want a rethink…
Police union leaders on Monday urged Mayor Rahm Emanuel to modify his plan to assign 40 state troopers on 30-day loan to Chicago to serve fugitive warrants to get known criminals off the street.
Dean Angelo, president of Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 7 representing Chicago Police Officers, and Mike Powell, president of the FOP’s Illinois Trooper Lodge No. 41, said it makes more sense to assign state troopers to traffic duty to free Chicago Police officers for the “real police work” chasing fugitives.
“You’re taking troopers from rural areas out of their element and thrusting them into the big city. There should always be concern about that. That’s just a matter of geography,” Powell said.
* The response…
Chicago Police spokesman Martin Maloney responded to the FOP’s concerns in a statement that makes it clear there will be no changes in the mayor’s plan. City and state police offiicals are “working closely together to ensure this expanded partnership is a success for all involved,” Maloney wrote.
“This expansion of our existing partnership will now have State Police officers working side-by-side with CPD officers, ensuring the safety of all officers and putting more resources behind our efforts to arrest wanted fugitives. The officers will be working in integrated teams and they will all have access to CPD’s real-time intelligence, ensuring that knowledge of the geography or crime conditions are not an issue,” Maloney wrote.
* The Question: Do you agree with the police unions or with city and state police officials? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:35 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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===You’re taking troopers from rural areas out of their element and thrusting them into the big city. There should always be concern about that. That’s just a matter of geography.===
Actually, it’s a matter of training. If these troopers aren’t being properly trained, their assignments should be limited. But that’s an admission that some Illinois State Troopers can’t operate in Chicago.
I have no doubt that there are some troopers who currently serve in rural areas that don’t want to work in Chicago. Too bad. They signed up for the wrong agency.
I voted Officials.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:42 pm
Given Quinn’s citation of the traffic deaths in his speed limit veto, perhaps he should leave the Troopers on the road.
But yes, I have to agree with the unions on this one. Training and experience matter. A badge and a gun don’t automatically prepare you for everything.
Comment by Shemp Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:45 pm
I voted with the police union. Rahm still hasn’t fixed the potholes in Chicago, how can he be trusted with chicagos violence issue?
Comment by William j Kelly Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:48 pm
Officials. Perhaps I’ve just been lucky but I’ve never met an incompetent Illinois State Police officer, and I believe their training is second to none.
Comment by steve schnorf Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:57 pm
For all the gut wrenching over “cow-tipping” yesterday, the harpies are kinda quiet on this one coming from a police union hack. “out of their element”, “big city”. This is more than a little outrageous. State Coppers get vigorous training and train many others. They’re up to it. I’m with the officials on this one. Way with ‘em.
Comment by A guy... Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:03 pm
You never know who has some connection to the names on these warrants. Perhaps this is reason to bring in outside personnel to do this warrant sweep.
Comment by Rural Guy Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:05 pm
I voted with the unions. The police force was reduced dramatically under Daley and has continued to dwindle under Rahm. The city needs to hire more police officers and stop investing in building new shiney objects. Tourism is very important to the city and building attractions is important but if people don’t feel safe in our city, no one will visit. Let’s invest in more police officers first and get a handle on this crime issue.
Comment by 36th Warder Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:09 pm
What is the Union trying to say? The Troopers being paid close to $100,000 or more a year are only qualified for Traffic duty. We need to cut the force then if that is all they can do! I know that nobody likes being detailed to Chicago! But if you look at the past. They where detailed to Cairo back in the 60’s and stayed long periods of time. They where also sent to East St. Louis. They are called ILLINOIS STATE POLICE, not Highway patrol. We need to send a thousand if that would stop the killing. Which is more important a person’s life or a seat belt ticket. Lets get the priority’s where they should be!
Comment by IL Seat Belt Patrol Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:09 pm
It’s not just training, it’s experience. Downstate highway troopers have good training but lack the experience to operate effectively and safely on a fugitive detail.
Comment by anon. Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:09 pm
Union. While I’m not concerned about the training of the State Police, it’s a matter of experience. Surgeons may receive the same education, but one practicing at a busy metropolitan hospital has more experience than one working at a small downstate facility.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:12 pm
You wonder why there is a problem in Chicago?
It’s because the politicians, the police officials, and the unions all wanting to protect ‘teir turf’ fiddle while Rome burns’
I vote none.
Comment by train111 Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:12 pm
Regulars here may keel over, but I voted with the unions on this one.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:15 pm
I didn’t vote because this is a bad idea, period. State police are not accustomed to doing city law enforcement and this could cause for some tense situations - for officers and residents. Training can be done, but that only makes sense for a long-term or continuing relationship, which this isn’t supposed to be.
In addition, this sets a horrible precedent of using state resources for a local problem. It’s akin to the Cook County Sheriff patrolling some suburbs that can’t afford police protection; however, in this situation, Chicago can afford it - they just don’t want to pay for what the community needs.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:16 pm
Officials. It would be different if there were groups of state police trying to work independently of CPD. Any plus Chicago officers have over state police based on experience can be shared with them. The state troopers have excellent training and I personally like the idea of our best-trained officers helping out where they can do the most good.
Comment by Bunson8r Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:17 pm
I’m going to go with the unions on this one. If the troopers are just being assigned to new “integrated teams,” I wonder how that’s really increasing the capability of CPD to handle the existing workload. On the other hand, if the troopers can handle some of the routine patrols, that could increase the overall coverage. As it is, in some beats, especially on weekend nights, some 911 calls wait an hour or more for a response because there aren’t enough police to respond. And that includes calls for things like assaults and muggings. Two state troopers can respond to those calls just as well as two CPD officers, and the sooner you get police to where the victim is, the better chance you have to track down the perpetrator.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:17 pm
If it was just a matter of training, rookies out of the academy could be tossed on the street immediately. Experience is also important, too. Troopers have the training but not all have experience working in an urbanized high crime area. Fortunately they won’t be working by themselves and with serving warrants the police get to choose the time and place. Hope they go after felons and not just make numbers on traffic and misd. warrants and call it a success.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:20 pm
I voted politician, thinking they would choose troopers with special training in necessary techniques, not the poor b@stard with lowest seniority.
Also, hoping they would have the teams do a couple weeks of team training before being sent out. I’m a dreamer?
Comment by HeavyB Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:20 pm
pols. time to throw some change into things.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:26 pm
how about a sting with free sox tickets sent to last known address (alot more fun)
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:31 pm
Miniscule chance, but if there is a brutality/controversial incident like the one’s that have recently been in the news, that could make Rahm look very bad.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:32 pm
I voted officials - although I was under the impression that chicago makes up roughly 20% of the population. Are you telling me that throughout the year the state police are neglecting this large population of people? If the state police are not being adequately trained, and adequately given details in the city to gain experience than the union should grieve about that. Chicago is in need of a multifaceted solution to solve their violence endemic, and the state troopers should be ready to be part of that solution.
Comment by Modest proposal Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:42 pm
Voted Officials, but only if it will be assisting CPD in scooping people on warrants. Otherwise sending ISP out by themselves makes as much sense as dropping Probationary Police Officers off on Englewood street corners by themselves. Oh wait, they already did that.
Comment by West Side the Best Side Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:49 pm
You’d think they’d just be glad for some help.
Comment by LincolnLounger Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:56 pm
As a Chicago resident I think the FOP is correct. Serving warrants in the City is no simple task and can lead to all kinds of crazy situations that State Police simply aren’t used to.
I also don’t disagree with the Mayor that picking up people on outstanding warrants will help reduce crime in general. People on the streets with outstanding felony warrants are wild cards with very little to lose.
Chicago police Officer Nathaniel Taylor, a narcotics officer, was shot and killed in 2008 while attempting to serve a warrant. In March of 2014 another narcotics officer was wounded while attempting to serve a warrant.
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 81 percent of county police, 83
percent of local police, and 98 percent of sheriffs’ offices serve arrest warrants. In keeping with their different responsibilities only 57 percent of state police agencies serve arrest warrants. It’s best to leave the warrant serving to the CPD.
Comment by Rod Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:00 pm
Officials
The staties are well-trained and well-disciplined. They will have a positive impact.
Remember all the union wants is more cops, making more money. They don’t especially want this to work.
Comment by walker Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:02 pm
I think the fact that Emanual and the CPD (as currently staffed) are unable to handle the city’s law enforcement challenges by themselves, is a much bigger issue than what role the ISP should play in assisting them. Something very big and very wrong is being ignored here. I vote with the guys on the streets and in the union on this one.
Comment by Tequila Mockingbird Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:08 pm
Do you guys have any idea what the State Police actually do? They aren’t just traffic cops. They don’t only drive around and give tickets. They receive more training that CPD. I don’t anticipate they’ll be moving a guy from Carbondale to Chicago for 30 days, but if they do, don’t automatically assume he’s a hillbilly who doesn’t know how to serve a warrant.
Comment by huh Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:18 pm
Unions. Ah those Chicago cops. If they’re not cracking hippy heads, they’d rather being doing nothing. Do your jobs.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:22 pm
Officials. The ISP are trained for this and get far more training then cpd. The FBI sends agents to train with the state police tactical teams.
Send in the trt and keep the cpd directing traffic before they get hurt
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:25 pm
I can only speak to what I observe in my area. I am in State Police District HQ in Macomb, Ill
I constantly see state police cars ‘parked’ in local towns - on occasion I have seen two patrol cars parked beside each other. They also patrol the County highways. I know these local towns and they have their own police force and the same goes for the county- you see them all over.
Seems like they don’t have enough to do in my area or are not be appropriately assigned.
Comment by Federalist Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:34 pm
I am retired ISP with 28 years. The statement from the unions is all nonsense. It’s not about training or lack of. It’s a unified effort from the unions to pressure the city to hire more officers. Some of you will remember in 1985 when Big Jim Thompson sent Troopers to patrol the city expressways so Mayor Washington could put the old CPD Traffic Unit on neighborhood beats. These troops all came from rural downstate. The detail was 9 months until new cadets were trained to relieve the downstate troops. There is violent crimes committed everyday on the Chicago expressways. These troops are trained for the duty. Shame on Powell for saying otherwise. As far as conducting high risk arrest warrant execution… the ISP does that everyday somewhere in this big state. Doesn’t matter if it’s Chicago. Armed felons in a rural home is just as dangerous as ones in a multi level tenant building in the city of Chicago. The tactics are different but the criminal is the same.
Comment by Kissfan Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:40 pm
Since Chicago has the third highest number of officers per capita of cities in the nation, maybe it would be best to assign the Troopers to desk jobs and send the Chicago officers into the neighborhoods. Might shake things up.
Comment by Anon III Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:43 pm
Other than the political perception that the State is helping with the “crime” problem, how is a State/Chicago team better than a two man Chicago team? If it’s about manpower, than the union suggestion addresses that issue. If it’s about a corruption or incompetence concern about Chicago cops, then that’s a different story. However, I’m not seeing that concern expressed in anything that I’ve read.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:44 pm
A state cop is not a city cop. A city cop is not a federal agent. A federal agent is not a jailer. A jailer is not a state cop. God, but we love our “simple solutions”.
Comment by efudd Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:48 pm
==- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:42 pm:==
I agree. If these were sky coppers being thrown into the fire or people with some kind of specialization who haven’t been in the regular field in awhile so to speak, I might agree with the union folks, but if we’re talking regular troopers, they should be able to handle some fugitive pickups.
==- Shemp - Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 1:45 pm:==
“A badge and a gun don’t automatically prepare you for everything.”
Yet the unions fight tooth and nail against more training in the communities, fitness, use of force, etc.
==- Anon - Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 2:16 pm:==
Re: “state resources for a local problem.”
It’s the state’s job, full stop. Municipalities are just a way of making the state easier to manage.
Comment by Precinct Captain Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:52 pm
I agree with KissFan……send the ISP troopers. It will be similar to the E St Louis detail that started in July 1986 and continued for many years.
Also retired from the ISP with 28 years. It would do some troopers a world of good with the experience they might gain.
Comment by Retired ISP Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:56 pm
I voted with the unions on this one. While I believe the ISP is the best trained / most professional force in the State, local knowledge does matter … especially in delaing with dense urban / gang violence environments.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:59 pm
This may be a means of acclimating ISP to the Chicago beat, with a view many more will be needed in the future. If the Mayor is unwilling (unable) to bring more CPD on line and won’t request Natl Guard for some Chicago areas, then having some ISP ready for front-line duty may be advisable. Serving fugitive warrants may be introductory level training, with more “advanced” training if it works out.
Comment by Cook county Commoner Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:07 pm
I was holding out for - Roadiepig -…
Until I get that take, do I believe the Union, both Unions, or the officials and the training and the idea that we have Illinois’ best in the ISP too?
I believe in the training first and foremost, so until I get swayed by thoughts to the contrary, going with the Officials.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:09 pm
===RNUG - Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 3:59 pm:
I voted with the unions on this one. While I believe the ISP is the best trained / most professional force in the State, local knowledge does matter … especially in delaing with dense urban / gang violence environments.===
RNUG, gently…they’re not being summoned because the locals have done such a thorough job. The Union Chief is insulting them in his statement. Fresh eyes might solve more issues than one here.
Comment by A guy... Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:43 pm
“A state cop is not a city cop.”
So why do I see so many state cops in towns and county highways and conversely so many city cops patrolling state highways (granted, in city limits)?
A lot of ‘confusion’ out there.
Comment by Federalist Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:43 pm
gOVERNOR’S DAY AT THE fair is 11 30, not 1 pm
Comment by anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:51 pm
you know, this question looks to me like it might be the best proxy we’ve had since electing the U of I board
Comment by steve schnorf Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:55 pm
The unions have put themselves in a position to say I told you so if something goes wrong. And, if there are no problems the unions can then say CPD and ISP were lucky this time. It can go either way with the lack of respect for law enforcement in these high crime areas. However, ISP personnel know how to work as a team, execute arrest warrants, and take care of themselves. They assist other agencies a lot of the times and the troopers work alone on the road most of the time with little backup. I will go with the officials and hope for the best.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 4:58 pm
I’d have to say I don’t have enough information to make a decision but I’d lean towards the officials. Now if the ISP just sends rookies, that’s one thing. But if they are experienced vets, SWAT members, special agents, etc. I think they are more than equipped to do the job in Chicago, just like they handled the meth standoff in Pana the other week.
Comment by MyTwoCents Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:20 pm
Will these troopers come off downstate patrol or be taken from the dozens of troopers assigned to the riverboat casinos?
Comment by anon Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:21 pm
–For all the gut wrenching over “cow-tipping” yesterday, the harpies are kinda quiet on this one coming from a police union hack. “out of their element”, “big city”. This is more than a little outrageous.–
That was from a state trooper. Perhaps he has some insight into the situation.
How did you conclude he was a “hack?”
Unions. They know they’re jobs better than Emanuel.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:26 pm
“Will these troopers come off downstate patrol or be taken from the dozens of troopers assigned to the riverboat casinos?”
ISP is on contract with the Illinois Gaming Board to supply a certain number of staffing. Just as the Tollway Authority has a contact for staffing with ISP District 15. Doubt they will take any personnel from either detail since this is not an emergency situation
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:30 pm
I agree with the unions but not for the reasons they state. I think isp officers from any district can do the job. However especially after the mess stl and ferguson are going through now having officers on patrol that know the neighborhoods and residents will be more effective. While being less likelu to start a huge mess.
That being said man. Fop seemed really condescending with the whole real police work bit.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:44 pm
== Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:26 pm:
That was from a state trooper. Perhaps he has some insight into the situation.
How did you conclude he was a “hack?”===
I concluded it when he said: “You’re taking troopers from rural areas out of their element and thrusting them into the big city…”
Any more questions?
Comment by A guy... Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 5:56 pm
State Troopers seemed to perform admirably back in 1985 when they took over the Chicago Expressway system. If I recall correctly, many of the gang members stopped traveling the expressways then because of the Troopers presence.
Most of them were drawn from all over the state then and they cleaned up the expressway system very quickly. They are above the corruption of the city and will be just fine.
Turn them loose!
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 6:27 pm
I’m with the official view here. I’ve known and worked with plenty of ISP over the years and they’re second to none. The FOP dude may have a tough reelection after that goofy observation.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 6:54 pm
Union-for the following reason. Rahm is using this as a way to get the rest of the state to pay for non-emergency police work that would normally be done by Chicago police. Rahm needs to raise Chicago taxes to pay for more Chicago police.
Comment by DuPage Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 7:02 pm
“State Troopers seemed to perform admirably back in 1985 when they took over the Chicago Expressway system. If I recall correctly, many of the gang members stopped traveling the expressways then because of the Troopers presence.
Most of them were drawn from all over the state then and they cleaned up the expressway system very quickly. They are above the corruption of the city and will be just fine.
Turn them loose!”
Yea, you couldn’t bribe them to get out of a ticket. Chicago motorists were shocked. LOL
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 7:27 pm
ISP and CPD could certainly work together,but is this stripping what few troops are in districts outside of Chicago?ISP personnel are in every possible duty that pays the organization for it’s services:gambling boats,medicaid fraud etc.There are few road dogs for patrol Unions
Comment by ed Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 8:18 pm
I’m ISP & offended by Powell’s comments.Years ago our special agents paired w/ CPD detectives to get exposure to their investigative practices. The brass in Springfield were worried our guys would all become rogue cops. As it turned out, our cops were just like theirs. CPD had alot more cases and knew the turf & offenders, but they worked their cases just like we did and none of our people came back scarred by the experience. Although I think sending troops into the city is a political move, the unions don’t need to disparage well trained & dedicated troopers to support their argument for more coppers.
Comment by Peacelover Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 8:57 pm
You can make an argument, I suppose, that no ISP should be diverted. But please, are you serious? These guys are trained officers. They can handle Chicago as well as Chenoa. Anyway, traffic duty in Chicago could be every bit as dangerous - we tend not to have red-light cameras down here in Cow Tipping Land.
Comment by I'm May Be Stupid But Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 9:14 pm
I am the qouted Troopers union official and can say with absolute certainty that I did not utter the quote that was credited to me. I believe the Troopers of this state are second to none and can handle anything the mean streets of Chicago has to offer. The fact is Chicago PD is understaffed by many hundreds of officers and the Illinois State Police is undermanned by over 600 Troopers. Those facts should be the story. We are proud to assist the Chicago Police Department in any way possible. What I told the reporter was a trooper that does not know the geography of the city is at a disadvantage and could possibly be better utilized helping out in other duties. This could free up CPD officers to handle the warant sweep. That is not the plan and I am confident the Troopers will make CPD and the citizens of Chicago proud. The CPD officers know their city and it’s problems. We are eager to assist. I am very disappointed that my comments were so grossly misrepresented.
Comment by Troopers Lodge Tuesday, Aug 12, 14 @ 10:48 pm
Unions. Local officers know their citizens.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Aug 13, 14 @ 7:24 am
In a retired State Troopers opinion, it’s law enforcement,quit whining and go do your job. When I retired 10 years ago over half the state police officers were sergeant and above and half the department didn’t work the road. So, I’ll say it again GO DO YOUR JOB.
Comment by Anthony Wednesday, Aug 13, 14 @ 8:39 am