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* Council 31’s spokesman Anders Lindall responds to Gov. Bruce Rauner’s anti-union memo to lawmakers…
It’s bizarre and outrageous for Bruce Rauner to suggest that public employees aren’t ‘working families’. He’s wrong to vilify workers who serve the public, earn middle-class wages and have a right to a voice through their union.
And it’s especially offensive for Rauner to criticize prison and highway workers who risk their lives to do some of our state’s most dangerous work.
His false attacks seem designed to distract from real problems, like tax loopholes for big corporations and giveaways to wealthy individuals who funded Rauner’s political campaign.
The governor spoke often about closing corporate tax loopholes during the campaign. Not much since, however.
I’m told the governor’s State of the State address will focus on solutions and not on the state’s problems. It’s about freaking time.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 9:57 am
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Did AFSCME offer corrected numbers? I thought not.
Comment by old-pol Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 9:59 am
Considering his build-up, I imagine his solutions pretty much involve union-bashing and cuts in social services.
Comment by PMcP Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:00 am
Given all this anti-union nonsense — why isn’t anyone asking how much it would actually save?
Rauner is attempting to bust the union for the sake of busting the union — and, of course, a Scott Walker-like run for President. I get that. It’s repugnant — but I get it.
What I don’t get is why no one saying, okay, Bruce, you bust the union — and then what? How far is this actually going to go to fix anything — apart from saying, “Yeah, I busted the union.”
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:02 am
So far, Governor Rauner has gone out of his way to say something blatantly untrue every single day of his administration.
He is making me long for the early days of Blagojevich.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:04 am
He must’ve been put on earth to bust unions. He doesn’t want to talk about how much money that’ll save because it won’t be much and that would take all the fun out of the sensationalism of busting unions. Where are all the weapons he has for fixing out economy? I thought he was touted as some financial wizaard?
Comment by AnonymousOne Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:08 am
It’s a show. Why is he saying these things? Because he can. He paid $27 million to get the privilege to say these things. He paid for the privilege. He’s in the moment.
Comment by Tim Snopes Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:11 am
“… bizarre and outrageous … vilify workers … offensive … false attacks …”
Good to see that Pat Quinn’s speechwriter has found work.
Comment by Anon III Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:15 am
“For an working office decor - meh, a ‘6′. For a working movie set - ‘9′…”
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:15 am
Re: “…earn middle-class wages and have a right to a voice through their union.”
I imagine Lindall argued pretty hard over Harris V Quinn that that right to a voice didn’t extend to “freeloading” on Union Dues so to speak.
Comment by Bill Baar Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:15 am
It’s nothing but grandstanding. The general public eats this stuff up. It doesn’t matter that its ridiculous. They don’t care. Rauner knows in the end he won’t be able to do what he truly wants to do, which is to eliminate unions, cut state worker pay (because those salaries are so grossly inflated, unlike the $60 million a year Rauner makes), and completely eviscerates the pensions public sector workers receive. So, the only thing to do is to create an atmosphere of anger towards the unions in hopes that they will crumble on their own and agree to some of his outrageous proposals.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:15 am
= = I’m told the governor’s State of the State address will focus on solutions and not on the state’s problems. = =
Eh Rich, you’ve never struck me as the gullible type. Why start now?
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:16 am
==And it’s especially offensive for Rauner to criticize prison and highway workers who risk their lives to do some of our state’s most dangerous work.==
Governor Rauner’s language has been blunt and too strong imho.
But it remains unexplained as to how prison and highway workers are paid so much more in Illinois for doing the same job as those in other states.
I suspect cost of living differences may explain a part of the gap, but not all of it.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:16 am
I’d be interested to see a comparison of private industry salaries between the states too. I bet Illinois’ private workers make a lot more than they do in Indiana and Kentucky too.
Comment by Carhart Representative Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:20 am
Frenchie, how has Wisconsin fared during the Walker regime? How is their bank balance these days?
Comment by anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:21 am
People need to stop being “offended” at any statement they disagree with. Disagree and rebut what you don’t agree with, but stop being “offended”. I am offended by that attitude (ha ha).
Comment by Formerpol Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:22 am
Totally unscientific sample, but my wife today - who is not even a fan of unions - was listening to npr today and asked me, “Our new governor is a little crazy, isn’t he?” She was reacting to a claim by Rauner that union money corrupts politics: “Doesn’t he take millions from big business and corporations?” It was my stand up and cheer common sense moment of the morning.
Comment by ZC Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:24 am
This is a distressing start for rauner. We had hints of his thinking, but I thought and hoped his better judgement would temper which fights he provoked.
Concentrate on those making over $100k, and see if it is justified. Fine. But suggesting a $49k highway worker should be making $36k, etc, is offensive, class warfare, and divisive.You ain’t gonna get to $9 BIL picking up $13k per employee. He is picking a fight based on ideology (and dishonesty), not policy. Cue the clip “we might have to take a shutdown”.
Comment by Langhorne Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:24 am
Rauner is looking to establish his far-right bona fides early. Hoping to piggy-back Koch money onto his own — and then parlay everything into a run for president.
It’s crazy. You’re going to take 14K from a prison guard and claim, “There. I saved the state money.” That’s beyond repugnant.
How about the 1%’s like Rauner stop looting the *private* sector and raise private sector salaries? How about we look to Illinois as a model for public service?
All Rauner’s doing is looting the middle-class so he can pad his own wallet — and then sit down and smoke cigars with the Koch’s and say, “See, I did it.” That’s it. That’s all this is.
Rauner’s just a rich guy attempting to loot the middle class.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:28 am
The governor’s SOTS address ==”will focus on solutions and not on the state’s problems”==?
That surely would be nice, but there’s no reason to believe that statement. Bet against it.
Comment by walker Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:31 am
When the release starts out; “It’s bizarre and outrageous…” it really does invite you not to take it too seriously. Get some professional communications help over there. Jeesh.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:34 am
==It’s bizarre and outrageous==
It isn’t bizarre and outrageous? Seems like an apt description to me.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:36 am
Commercial Pilot Outrage
According to 2013 Bureau of Labor Statistics Data the average Illinois commercial pilot made $84,500.
Our 5 neighboring states paid commercial pilots and average of $72,000.
I blame unions and state workers for making it harder to get a cheap commercial flight in Illinois.
Comment by Carhart Representative Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:39 am
I guess this is a bad time to hope for the tax on millionaires to help raise a billion or so.
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:40 am
He was criticized during the campaign for saying things like this, he’s being criticized now as Governor for saying them and he’ll be criticized during and after the SOTS for saying them. Every side will have a position going into the negotiations. Problem is, Governors haven’t had a position for quite some time, because it often didn’t matter. Now it does. There will be tension, there will be negotiations and it’s doubtful that any person will be completely satisfied with the solutions. It’s the price we pay for being in the state of affairs we’re in.
It’s turbulence. The plane is not crashing.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:41 am
Put me down as not expecting to hear solutions tomorrow.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:41 am
Fifteen years ago, working as an Illinois state government division chief, my Executive Secretary retired. We posted the position vacancy and received 27 internal applications. Regardless of the excellent qualifications of some candidates, the applicant with the highest seniority interviewed ME for the job. She was a known train wreck and I had two choices; hire the train wreck or leave the position vacant. Tell me, is that good government? Governor Rauner is spot-on regarding the grip organized labor has on state government. Who among you can argue that longevity should supersede candidate quality in hiring practices? Organized labor may have a place in the public sector but in the case of hiring, labor has over-stepped its original purpose. Jurgis and Ona are dead - and so is the prospect of good government under labor’s grip.
Comment by Business Unfriendly Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:42 am
Three serious questions for people who think Rauner is off his rocker:
1. Why are illinois government employees paid above every other state around us for the same level of work? It can’t be COLA everywhere.
2. Why does the State workers employee union even exist? How does it benefit the benefit the taxpayers, as its not recruiting the best possible employees for each position.
3. Every state agency is ‘having to do more with less’ that isn’t a Rauner thing, that was also a Quinn thing. There are bad union employees in every agency, even if they make up 3-5% of the workforce, it takes something like 18 months to fire them, they are allowed to show up late, and basically need to be a the worst thing ever to get the boot. Not to mention the large amount of paperwork required to get them gone.
Now for the serious part of the comment: this is all going to lead up to Rauner going to the table this summer during negotiations and giving them a take it or leave it number. The union is going to try and push back but he’s just going to shrug and say ‘go ahead strike’. To wit he will put up a help wanted sign in Springfield and in Chicago and people will fill in holes left by the paperpushers who think their irreplaceable.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:46 am
AFSCME’s response needed to be better. They’re at war with a guy who’s using every weapon in the arsenal. Failure is not an option if it’s to remain a relevant organization.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:48 am
If all these union folks are so upset, let them take their skills and expertise to the private sector, where they should receive much higher pay and benefits! There will be plenty of qualified applicants to fill the vacancies.
Comment by Apocalypse Now Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:51 am
“and people will fill in holes left by the paperpushers who think their irreplaceable.”
And it will be just that easy? LOL!!
Comment by #5 Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:51 am
Gov Rauner seems to suffer from an inability to “know his audience.” I saw him deliver a speech to a group state employees and spent the bulk of time talking about how poorly the state is run and how badly it’s broken without realizing he was directly insulting nearly everyone in the room. His plan to travel to state facilities and talk to state employees is based on good intentions but he squanders the opportunity to put out a positive message by continuing this campaign-style rhetoric.
Comment by MOD Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:57 am
#5, Illinois has a high unemployment rate amoung recent grads, you tell any of them they can make 30-45k in the ctiy, while working at an entry level job, getting free life insurance and healthcare? Ya it wouldn’t be impossible to replace them.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:57 am
How many of Illinois state employees are not taxpayers and contributing to our economy? Where do I find this information out at? I’d be more than happy with a ballpark number. Perhaps if the Governor would give up one of his houses and one of his vehicles and all state employees do the same it would show we are all in this together and working to fix the problem. I know it would eliminate my gas, electric and water bill as well.
Comment by Anthony Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:58 am
==It can’t be COLA everywhere.==
It seems impossible that cost of living differences could account for a 70% or more difference in salaries for the same job.
20% or 30% maybe, but not differences this vast.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:00 am
@anon:
Whats a fair wage to go out to someones house for a domestic disturbance that may, or may not, involve a gun?
Whats a fair wage for a firefighter to go someones house to save your kids or Tabby the cat?
Whats a fair wage to educate our children so they dont wind up in prison? Whats a fair wage to make bologna sandwiches or babysit pot smokers in prison?
Whats a fair wage for a paramedic to go to “Dear Old Dads home” who is having a grabber on the 3rd floor of a walkup after 20 inches of snow?
More or less than the current salary at Wally World?
Comment by Del Clinkton Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:02 am
===Norseman - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 10:48 am:
AFSCME’s response needed to be better. They’re at war with a guy who’s using every weapon in the arsenal. Failure is not an option if it’s to remain a relevant organization.===
yep.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:03 am
@FKA
“But it remains unexplained as to how prison and highway workers are paid so much more in Illinois for doing the same job as those in other states.”
Why is the assumption ALWAYS that we are ‘paying too much?”. Why is the question never, “How do other states justify paying their workers so little’?
As I said before, Rauner should change his office motto to:
“Illinois, where Billionaires criticize thousandaires for making too much!”
It’s disgusting. We shouldn’t strive to be the low cost bidder in every facet of life. If you want to live in a society where the lowest jobs are paid pennies, move to India or Mexico.
I don’t.
Comment by How Ironic Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:03 am
To all of the skeptics who are using the quote ”…will focus on solutions and not on the state’s problems…”; I’d normally be right alongside you in the parade, except for one thing. This guy is the first governor I’ve known of from Kerner to Quinn who isn’t a pol (politician is too polite a term), so I have a glimmer of hope.
Comment by Weltschmerz Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:05 am
===I’m told the governor’s State of the State address will focus on solutions===
Put me in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” camp.
Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:06 am
The unions can really stick it to rauner by reelecting Rahm, riiiiight? DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH! Wake up, pretty please? With a ‘how stupid can you be’ cherry on top!
Comment by William j Kelly Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:09 am
Nice “Jungle” reference, Business unfriendly. As for rauner’s anti union rhetoric, i wonder what percentage of AFSCME workers voted for him because they couldn’t stand Quinn. Pure cut off the nose to spite the face moment. As for rauners motives, how much easier will it be for republicans be be politically competitive in future elections, up and down the ballot, if union strength is diminished? When labor money dries up, can the speaker raise all the funds necessary to compete from trial lawyers? This is what democrats get when they stay home or vote for change because their candidate isn’t everything to everybody. We are in the beginning stages of living in a state where the governor once cared about people, but the new governor does not. Get used to it.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:11 am
Ok let me try that again. If you don’t like rauuuuuner. Whaaaaat yooooouu neeeeeed toooooo doooooo nooooooow is deeeeeefeat raaaaaaahm emaaaaaanual. Oooooook? Would you like me to repeeeeeeeeat thaaaaaaat agaaaaaain????? B
Comment by William j Kelly Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:13 am
The governor explicitly made a distinction between state workers and “working families.”
It’s not only bizarre and outrageous, but despicable.
Unless you think state workers are some lower class of citizen or human being,
Guy, you’re giving communications advice? Hilarious.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:22 am
@How Ironic
The ==assumption== is such, in this case, as a result of the facts before us so far.
Public workers deserve our support and gratitude. I personally think the attempt to weasel out of our pension obligations is underhanded and outrageous. They should be compensated fairly for the work they do.
But how do we rationalize paying someone 70% more for doing the exact same job in neighboring states? There may be valid explanations, but absolutely nothing in that comment helps justify such a large discrepancy.
The ==love it or leave it== tie in at the end was nice touch, though.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:26 am
This is going to be an interesting couple of months around here.
99TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY
State of Illinois
2015 and 2016
HB0298
Introduced , by Rep. Ron Sandack
SYNOPSIS AS INTRODUCED:
65 ILCS 5/8-1-19 new
Amends the Illinois Municipal Code. In provisions concerning finance, provides that a municipality may file a petition and exercise powers pursuant to applicable federal bankruptcy law. Effective immediately.
Comment by Tsavo Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:28 am
==But how do we rationalize paying someone 70% more for doing the exact same job in neighboring states?==
How do you know it’s the exact same job? Do you really want a race to the bottom? Who does that benefit?
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:29 am
AFSCME on Quinn: He is against us (aka green shirts at state fair).
AFSCME on Rauner: We’re hopeful.
Note to AFSME: Good luck finding someone who is for you, because you sure have a sad way of alienating those who are philosophically with you. Dopes.
Comment by Tim Snopes Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:30 am
“what percentage of AFSCME workers voted for him because they couldn’t stand Quinn. Pure cut off the nose to spite the face moment.”
Maybe so. Or could it be that they’d rather face a head-on attack than take the chance of being stabbed in the back again (e.g. Quinn taking back raises already promised in the contract)?
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:32 am
As I recall, that bill authorizing AFSCME pay raises died in the House last year. Blame Quinn all you want.
Comment by Tim Snopes Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:34 am
Its not just state employees with higher income. From the Census Bureau’s QuickFacts (go to www.census.gov and find QuickFacts in the middle of the page):
Median Household Income:
IL: $56,797
IN: $48,248
KY: $43,036
MO: $47,380
IA: $51,843
WI: $52,413
Per Capita Income:
IL: $29,666
IN $24,635
KY $23,462
MO $25,649
IA $27,027
WI: $27,523
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:35 am
==How do you know it’s the exact same job? Do you really want a race to the bottom? Who does that benefit?==
the taxpayers?
Comment by anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:35 am
==the taxpayers?==
Yeah, because public sector workers don’t pay taxes.
It disturbs me that some are giddy at the prospect of cutting somebody else’s salary. One has to lead a pretty pathetic life to get joy out of things like that.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:37 am
==the applicant with the highest seniority interviewed ME for the job. She was a known train wreck and I had two choices; hire the train wreck or leave the position vacant.==
Good example. Was the poor performance of this person documented? Was any effort made to improve the person’s performance? What did this person’s annual reviews look like? In my experience, little effort is made to correct poor performance and the union is blamed for supporting bad workers. Union leaders defend the process so that workers who bosses don’t like get a fair hearing based on the merits of their performance and not personality or other issues.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:39 am
==How do you know it’s the exact same job?==
This is based off the numbers and identical job titles contained in yesterday’s post https://capitolfax.com/2015/02/02/rauner-increases-attack-on-state-workers/
Now, if someone like AFSCME offered facts that a ==correctional officer==, for example, does very different work in those other states than in Illinois, that would help explain and justify the discrepancy wouldn’t it?
Or even if they could show that Rauner’s definition of a ==correctional officer== was somehow rigged or manipulated to arrive at those numbers? It would prove Governor Rauner is lying and undermine his credibility in one shot.
But, until then, these are the only facts we are left with.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:43 am
William J Kelly- “Unions” aren’t a monlith. AFSCME is not supporting Emmanuel in Chicago, and would likely throw weight behind any viable challenger. LIUNA, SEIU and some others are backing Emmanuel, but the big dogs (AFSCME, CTA, IFT) having been running bad press on Rahm for over a year.
Comment by Donny Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:47 am
As for state workers and hiring, AFSCME doesn’t have a say on the hiring process. That is controlled systematically through Rutan-directed law. DOT and Teamsters was it’s own mess, but that’s not how it works for AFSCME agencies or IFT/IEA schools.
Comment by Donny Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:48 am
The Rauner folks were obviously picking their comparisons very carefully to make their point. Before decisions are made based on comparisons, we need to make sure they compare apples to apples. Are the jobs the same? Are the minimum requirements the same? Have their been adjustments for overtime, cost of living, time in the position, and average wages within the locale?
When we are all done with the wage structure analysis, will be be making other analyses to compare our state with those that surround us? The income tax structure comes to mind. Most of our neighbors have a higher income tax and a graduated system. Is Rauner interested in that?
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:51 am
What he did was open up a can of those spring loaded snakes in a room full of girls. From a lot of shrieking I’ve been reading here it’s working pretty good..
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:52 am
PQ had a 15% pay cut on the negotiating table for months and months last contract. Lets see what Rauner actually puts on the table with AFSCME later this year. Unless or until the republicans can start gaining seats in the house and senate there will be no taking away of AFSCME right to bargain on wages etc. In this state we have strong bargaining/labor laws and those are in place and will be during this contract. Actually the more reasonable Rauner is the more he can kind of divide and conquer. If he stays hard core then it makes it easier for AFSCME and for the GA to back labor.
MJM is always making decisions through the prism of the next election and how do I stay speaker. He will maneuver to maintain a majority. It is only where that MJM requirement (stay speaker) happens to align with Rauner that anything gets done.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:57 am
@ FKA
“They should be compensated fairly for the work they do.
But how do we rationalize paying someone 70% more for doing the exact same job in neighboring states? There may be valid explanations, but absolutely nothing in that comment helps justify such a large discrepancy.”
1. Please, in 50 words or less clarify ‘the exact same job’. Tell me, have you actually read each job description, and interviewed the employees to ensure they are the ’same’? Or are just seeing ‘prison guard’ and assuming they do the same duties?
2. Again, you say ‘rationalize paying someone 70% more’, as though somehow Illinois is in the wrong. You brought it up, PROVE that we are overpaying. What if infact, you determine that other states are underpaying their workers? Does that somehow make it right that we in an effort to race to the bottom just cut pay? For example, in Mexico the average policeman makes $350/month. In Peoria, it’s about $4,500/month. WE ARE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR POLICE OFFICERS!!!! EEEEK
On one hand you say that public workers are great, but on the other you say they make to much. As if just saying it, makes it true.
It doesn’t. No more than me saying you’re overpaid by 50% and should take an immediate pay cut. Why? Because I just made it up, and I have no evidence to support it, therefore it’s true.
Got it?
Comment by How Ironic Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:57 am
To the Post,
I read commebts here, and even went back to the “Memo Post” before considering a comment.
The Rauner Administration has decided long ago that Union Workers, and their “Bosses” are a festering problem that needs to be addressed. “Festering”? Sadly, yes, the Rauner Administration sees a continued issue with state workers and salaries that continues to hamper the state.
I’m using that word because it’s how Union worokers, all Union workers (Right to Work Zones, anyone?) are a continued menace
ASCME, if you don’t understand that yiur workers are a festering menace to the Rauner Administration, I can’t help you.
The challenges you face include perception and narrative that the Rauner Administration has taken from your control, and you as an organization haven’t fone nearly enough to make this a two-way discussion.
I haven’t seen an organization, group, or industry… surrender… it’s image and strength so easily as I have seen Labor this last cycle. Even your friends talk “past” you, not with you.
Rauner won, ASCME. It was in all the papers. Sympathy is not your friend.
“Now, what are YOU prepared to do?” asked Jim Malone in “The Untouchables”.
How long are you, as an organization, going to let the Administration dictate the message? How long…are you as an Organization, are you willing to be defined by the Administration’s wanted perception?
If you can’t own your own perception, how do you expect to fight a fight in a narrative? News flash? You can’t.
Now, what are you prepared to do?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:59 am
What’s scary is that he is apparently a puppet for the Illinois Policy Institute. At least he is relying on the cooked numbers they generated in their jobs “study.” Not sure why they didn’t include jobs such as public/private attorneys, doctors, chemists, etc. Must have been an oversight.
Comment by ash Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:01 pm
@Joe M, bingo.
According to those numbers, Median Household Income is 16.9% more in Illinois than the average of those other states. Per Capita Income is 13.5% more in Illinois than the average of those other states.
That helps establish a baseline for general cost of living differences. As stated above, about 20% or even 30% seems about right imho. The rest? There may or may not be good reasons. We need to figure that out.
We may discover we are underpaying some public employees in certain jobs when compared to those other states, just as they are underpaid in Illinois when compared to the private sector.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:07 pm
I think on pensions AFSCME did a wonderful job on messaging. They correctly pointed out that the real issue on pensions was not the benefit but the fact that the employer did not fund the system. Proper funding is essential to any pension system regardless of benefits. The IMRF is 97% funded because they by law require all city and municipalities to make the required payment. If the entity does not then the IMRF can garnish their tax receipts and make the payment. AFCME also made it clear that pensions are a matter of “rule of law” and the sanctity of our constitution. AFCME has by in large done well under difficult situations.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:08 pm
@Weltschmerz
==This guy is the first governor I’ve known of from Kerner to Quinn who isn’t a pol (politician is too polite a term), so I have a glimmer of hope.==
No, he’s not a pol. He’s a corporate guy which is a thousand times worse. Corporations are all about profit, squeezing their assets (people) for blood. In that world, a race to the bottom for corporate costs is the norm. Think low-cost countries.
We should all be quaking in our boots for our state.
Comment by Midwest Mom Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:09 pm
Donny, DEMAND MORE!
Comment by William j Kelly Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:10 pm
- facts are stubborn things -,
With respect,
The court ruling and messaging of that, in regards to pensions…isn’t really messaging, it’s following the law and facts.
The messaging being lost is how they are perceived, and that people nod their heads in agreement that their members are part of the state’s problems.
Don’t believe me?
I put up as evidence the slides the Rauner Administration included in that Memo.
You can’t have the Administration demonize workers and monies made by those workers, with others nodding along in agreement… and think you are winning perception.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:15 pm
=== Wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:22 am:
The governor explicitly made a distinction between state workers and “working families.”
It’s not only bizarre and outrageous, but despicable.
Unless you think state workers are some lower class of citizen or human being,
Guy, you’re giving communications advice? Hilarious.===
How about that Sling? And I even make a decent living at it. Had to write off the demo that you occupy, since most folks don’t hate everything.
I don’t think Rauner made that distinction. Only you and some AFSCME members do. And perhaps a few more on the blog who parse everything he says just to be critical. You hate the guy. You’ve lost any sense of being unbiased or neutral. Everything you say is predictable and more often than not, dripping in bitterness. It happens to scribes over time. Hone your edge a little. You’re as amateur in these remarks as the press shop that responded in the first place. Add “despicable” to the mix. That will ensure no one reads on. Yikes dude.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:15 pm
Midwest Mom
Illinois is about the lowest among the states in unfunded pension obligations, bond ratings, and business climate. We are also about the worst in net population migration, which when considered with the median incomes of those leaving vs those coming in indicates a steadily shrinking tax base. We’ve been steadily declining for a decade or more. If you’re just now quaking in your boots, you’re way late to the game. At least we’ve finally changed coaches.
Comment by The Whole Truth Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:16 pm
Pot, you’re 100% correct. The system failed with my train wreck. She was consistently promoted up and out for convenience sake. Donny, please explain how position bid rights are not a union-based hiring practice. Unions don’t choose the lucky candidate but they certainly stack the proverbial deck. Service longevity beats worker quality almost every time. Try running a small business using that non-performance-based hiring practice.
Comment by Business Unfriendly Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:17 pm
=== Mouthy - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 11:52 am:
What he did was open up a can of those spring loaded snakes in a room full of girls. From a lot of shrieking I’ve been reading here it’s working pretty good..====
Someone missed one of the few good Super Bowl commercials. Oy.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:18 pm
@How Ironic
1. See the 11:43 post, above yours. @Pot Calling Kettle and I apparently beat you to it. That is an obvious question. Maybe you can offer some facts contrary to the research being offered by the Governor and his staff? Someone needs to.
2. There was a memo from the Governor to legislators as well as an entire post here just yesterday laying that out. Do you have some sort of proof to the contrary?
In the words of the great @Oswego Willy, ==Try to keep up==.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Speaking of the Illinois Policy Institute, wonder if their former employees that just took jobs with the Rauner administration are refusing to go into the state employees pension system. They will certainly bring the state down if they do!
Comment by lady Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:24 pm
Is an AARP member anti Illinois too?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:34 pm
@A guy- “I don’t think Rauner made that distinction.” I think he does. He refers to over paid state employees separately from taxpayers and working families.
I am not quoting him here but essentially his message has been the overpaid state employees have cost taxpayers money and hurt working families. Isn’t that part of his message? I am not a fan of AFSCME or the IFT but these folks occupy the employee and taxpayer realm all at the same time.
Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:35 pm
Why did Rauner spend so much of his own $. Why are other uber rich giving so much?
For one reason and one reason only, stopping the graduated tax.
Everything else is cursory. You bump the upper tax rate in Illinois to something like California (13%) and over a couple years it would cost the uber rich billions. They are experts in loopholes and tax avoidance. This is the best tax affoidance scheme possible, keep the tax rate low.
By the way did anyone find Ardiun’s salary? Probably not.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:36 pm
If you are a member of a union and your leaders are supporting Rahm show them the door or the window, whatever is faster.
Comment by William j Kelly Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:41 pm
@The Whole Truth:
Um: No.
https://www.census.gov/did/www/saipe/data/highlights/files/2013/F1_MP_13.pdf
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:53 pm
@ old-pol:
There is no reason to correct Rauner’s numbers. If you are arguing about Rauner’s numbers and/or correcting his graphs, you are losing.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:54 pm
No doubt the Govs’ seen enough numbers that he’s realized there’s no way out of this mess without raising taxes. So to get everybody’s mind off of that he’s raising the biggest ruckus he can by declaring war on the workers. I wonder if the speaker has gotten one of those bill counting machines that drug cartels use to count all the contributed money coming in….
Comment by Mouthy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:57 pm
“Median Household Income is 16.9% more in Illinois than the average of those other states. Per Capita Income is 13.5% more in Illinois than the average of those other states.”
I suspect the #1 reason for that difference is simply because so many IL residents live in the Chicago metro area, where incomes (and cost of living) are higher than they are elsewhere. So it may not be so much that IL is “overpaying” its workers as it is that so many of them live in or near Chicago where salaries in general are higher.
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:03 pm
“Speaking of the Illinois Policy Institute, wonder if their former employees that just took jobs with the Rauner administration are refusing to go into the state employees pension system. They will certainly bring the state down if they do!” Pretty sure the pension system is not optional. I think they will be required to pay in for the crap Tier II benefits but if they leave employment before vesting (8 to 10 years in many of the systems), they can cash out what they paid in with a statutory interest rate. No refund of the employer contribution and no Social Security for that period of service. In short, government employment is now a temp job. While that may be fine for Rauner’s politcal appointees, the long term impact on the rest of the State work force will be negative. High turnover, inexperienced staff and no institutional knowledge.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:08 pm
==he will put up a help wanted sign in Springfield and in Chicago and people will fill in holes left by the paperpushers who think their irreplaceable==
I hope you realize that there are many state job that a very technical and require advanced degrees. A replacement would take 2-3 years to train, which wouldn’t help the backlog in an already depleted workforce.
Comment by Rusty618 Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:11 pm
===JS Mill - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:35 pm:
@A guy- “I don’t think Rauner made that distinction.” I think he does. He refers to over paid state employees separately from taxpayers and working families.===
Mr. Mill, I believe we simply agree on the interpretation of this.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:25 pm
Oops, Make that disagree. Sorry.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:27 pm
Considering the ridiculous criticism and unfounded complaints from the new governor and his supporters, perhaps instead of asking union members to wear green t-shirts, the union should just respond by having state employees wear green stars sewn upon their coats.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:27 pm
I just looked up my neighbors salary who is a mechanic for the Tollway Authority. Per ITAP $85K! I’m on Rauners side on this one.
Comment by blankster Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:30 pm
Guy, it’s kinda hard to not seem biased when everything that comes out of the governor’s mouth is half truths and his actions since day one have been hypocritical and dare I say blatantly a punch under the belt to all that support and oppose him. This guy makes me wish for Blago again. At least Blago was an entertaining and knew how to wear. Carharrt.
Comment by Jorge Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:35 pm
=== - blankster - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:30 pm
I just looked up my neighbors salary who is a mechanic for the Tollway Authority. Per ITAP $85K! I’m on Rauners side on this one.===
The only way I could feel more sorry for you is if your pathetic jealously wasn’t so childish.
You may need a nap…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:36 pm
@blankster I just had a flash of the Purge.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:40 pm
Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:15 pm:
I appreciate your point of view, and I suppose a better job can almost always be done. I think AFSCME is answering and does counter the studies and the facts fairly well. I think the super majority in the house and senate show that the vast majority are not buying what Rauner is selling. I think after 6 years of ROD and and 6 years of a hard working but bumbling Quinn a change to a different party in the executive was desired.
Enjoy your comments very much.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:43 pm
“=== - blankster - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:30 pm
I just looked up my neighbors salary who is a mechanic for the Tollway Authority. Per ITAP $85K! I’m on Rauners side on this one.===
The only way I could feel more sorry for you is if your pathetic jealously wasn’t so childish.
You may need a nap… ”
No I actually earn much more than my neighbor since I own a business. But compared to other people in the neighborhood he lives pretty well with far more vacation and pension benefits than anyone in the private sector with a similar earnings. Once more he retired out of the CTA at age 48 with full retirement benefits. Now he’s racking up a second pension at the Tollway Authority courtesy of the tax payers again.
Comment by blankster Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:44 pm
Mouthy (and others) are right. This is a ploy to blame state workers for the tax increase…nothing more. The fact that Rauner comes off blameless and upstanding while people look up their neighbor’s salaries and seethe is disheartening.
AFSCME should ask, “Where are you going to find the other 8 Billion…while your family (and your hires) feather their nests on the taxpayer’s dime?”
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:45 pm
==I think he does. He refers to over paid state employees separately from taxpayers and working families.==
@AGuy, you aren’t very good at your communications job if you can’t even admit that the statement above is true. You chastised people for hating the guy no matter what. You are the opposite - defend him at all costs. Everybody needs to try to be objective. Plenty of people on here on both sides, including you and even me in some instances, have failed at that.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:47 pm
- facts are stubborn things -
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate your insight.
Sometimes I look at things pragmatically, but your point of Rod and Quinn is valid in the “tiresome” ways that governed.
Being pragmatic, Rauner is here now, ASCME needs to address that reality better.
Much respect, facts are stubborn things -
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:49 pm
@blankster:
Glad you earn a good living. Sorry you want to deny that of others.
Childish, indeed.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:49 pm
You know, on the Cap Fax, yesterday, under the headline “Rauner increases attacks on state workers,” I read about the governor sending out a slide.
It purportedly compared “Illinois Government” salaries and “Illinois Working Family” salaries.
Somehow, I thought a distinction between state workers and working families was being made, but apparently that’s open to interpretation by some.
Anyway, according to the gov, these Illinois employees are “unfair to working families and taxpayers.” So, again, a distinction is being made here as the governor is not including state employees among “working families and taxpayers.”
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:52 pm
@Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 12:15 pm:
=
The court ruling and messaging of that, in regards to pensions…isn’t really messaging, it’s following the law and facts.=
I believe that AFSCME did a wonderful job of framing the pension debate way back when bills were working their way through and being debated. You and I probably agree that AFSME positions were following the law, however, they had many options as to how to frame things etc. They negotiated a pension bill with Sen. Cullerton that passed the senate. Pointing out the facts and the law is a good messaging strategy and they never got side tracked from that.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:52 pm
Juvenal 12:53:
The median incomes were already posted above. My comments were that the median income of the few coming to Illinois is lower than that of the many leaving Illinois. Median income across the country has risen over the years, and tax receipts rose alongside. However,looking at net migration for Illinois, we are losing tax base. When coupled with our debt ratings, pension obligations et al, we’ve been in decline for years and to date have done little to materially chage that slide.
Comment by The Whole Truth Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:53 pm
The unspoken truth in all this is that, for years, Democrats have entered sweet contracts with unions in order to buy their political support. Same in Chicago. So public salaries are inflated here relative to neighboring states, where the collective bargaining is arms-length. If state employees go on strike because they don’t get a raise, the backlash will be very favorable to Rauner. Private sector employees are fed up.
Comment by Formerpol Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:55 pm
- facts are stubborn things -
Much respect.
To the pension issue, while all that is something to take pride in, and point to as important…
Today….today, ASCME is losing the perception battle of who they are, and who they represent.
Today.
Rauner is a salesman, his Crew approaches is as such. ASCME is losing the “sale” to Rauner, and losing the narrative too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:57 pm
FKA says ===But, until then, these are the only facts we are left with.===
You go to war against the middle class with the facts you have, not the facts that are accurate.
Comment by Ghostbusters Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:00 pm
@ Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:57 pm:
=Today….today, ASCME is losing the perception battle of who they are, and who they represent.=
You may be correct on that…good point, however, this is only about 1/2 way through round 1 of a 15 round boxing match. or the first 1/2 mile of a 16 mile marathon. I think we are seeing the democrats and to some extent AFSCME let Rauner take a few swings and sprint out ahead just a bit to size him up and make sure he gets to own some of this stuff.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:02 pm
==Private sector employees are fed up.==
So get another job if you are that unhappy.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:04 pm
I sense a little jealousy by some of the private workers. Hey Johnny has a better bike then me mommy. Wha wha wha!!!!!
Comment by Uncle Buck Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:05 pm
“Anon” says ===3. Every state agency is ‘having to do more with less’===
Except for your fellow Rauner staffers who are making well more than the equivalent positions under Quinn.
Classic “conservative” hypocrisy.
Comment by Ghostbusters Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:06 pm
- facts are stubborn things -
Agreed, long fight, just the beginning, abd sizing him up.
Totally agree.
Come June, will ASCME be able to change the direction of the ship, or will they be looking for life rafts?
In May if they are chasing, at some point they need to overtake the narrative to break even. Rauner is whom the are negotiating with, leverage at some point will be needed.
All good.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:07 pm
Look at it this way if there is no give and take between Rauner and the public workers you will see bonds to fund Yemeni debt sell easier than Illinois bonds. The bonding agencies are watching this closely and will cruch the state’s ability to fund anything.
Comment by blankster Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:09 pm
- blankster -,
“…and my neighbor is overpaid too!”
Dope.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:10 pm
==you will see bonds to fund Yemeni debt sell easier than Illinois bonds. The bonding agencies are watching this closely and will cruch the state’s ability to fund anything.
==
Are you serious? If that was the case it would have happened a long time ago. The state’s financial situation is well known yet when the state sells bonds there are always buyers. Plenty of them. I don’t foresee that changing.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:11 pm
And apologies,
It appears my phone thinks the “F” in AFSCME isn’t “needed”
Very sorry.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:13 pm
@The Whole Truth:
You are grossly misinformed.
From 2000 to 2013, Illinois slipped a whopping two slots, from 14th highest median income to 16th.
Currently, Illinois claims the highest median income in the Midwest.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:15 pm
OW — please — it’s AFSCME.
Not “ACSME”
If you’re going to blanket the comments with your comments, at least spell the thing you’re commenting about correctly.
AFSCME.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:15 pm
==Somehow, I thought a distinction between state workers and working families was being made==
That is how it read to me as well, @Wordslinger.
As a heavy line being drawn between ==public== workers and everyone else, for the purpose of marginalizing those public workers and implying the majority are somehow bleeding Illinois dry rather than folks working some very difficult and tiring jobs for our benefit.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:16 pm
“Pure cut off the nose to spite the face moment.” No, it’s a pure “cut off your arm or die alone on the face of a cliff” moment. Just a wee bit different.
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:17 pm
Just once — just once — I’d like to see a governor — or even a legislator — admit that through all the tumult and turmoil of the Blago/Quinn — and now Rauner — years it has been — and will continue to be — the public employees who keep the system running.
It ain’t the legislators. And it certainly ain’t Rauner. It’s the folks who go to work each day in the agencies and suffer near-constant demonization for the past 10,11,12 years.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:19 pm
The new Illinois governor may have some good ideas for dealing with our financial problems. But I am more interested in hearing what the leaders of the veto proof Illinois General Assembly will do to help solve Illinois’ fiscal problems.
Comment by Enviro Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:28 pm
“I thought a distinction between state workers and working families was being made”
Actually — going back to something someone said here recently — I suspect it’s more of a distinction between working CLASS families and state workers. (Though how, exactly, does one define “working class”?) It’s an attempt to paint state workers as belonging to a “more privileged” class — not just in terms of income, but in terms of benefits such as insurance, sick/vacation time, holidays, etc. — than the Average Joe or Jane.
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:38 pm
I just looked up my neighbors salary who is a mechanic for the Tollway Authority. Per ITAP $85K! I’m on Rauners side on this one.
You should be so fortunate to have a neighbor who can care for his family and not be losing his home or having his car repossessed, or begging for help down at the local mission. A lot of people are struggling, but they aren’t demanding that their neighbors suffer along. Most understand that life is tough for everyone, even someone earning more money than they are.
I wish nothing but success and happiness for all my neighbors. The better they have it, the better it is to live with them. If they earn more than I do, then I am glad to be the little fish in the well maintained pond. I don’t want to be the only guy able to pay his bills surrounded by neighbors like you, itching to see me get hurt.
I am so blessed that you are not my neighbor. I will ask my little ones to help you find comfort from your jealousies in their prayers tonight.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:41 pm
VanillaMan- the scary is part is blankster could be anyones neighbor. Maybe mine. Again IK its over the top but I told my kids The Purge is the scariest movie I have ever seen. I hope blankster doesn’t smile at his neighbor he just stabbed in the back. At least let people know what they are dealing with. GEESH!
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:46 pm
====Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:13 pm:
And apologies,
It appears my phone thinks the “F” in AFSCME isn’t “needed”====
For this particular conversation, the “F” isn’t needed. lol. That phone is really perceptive.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:49 pm
“or the first 1/2 mile of a 16 mile marathon” See? Even running races have to be pared back!
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:54 pm
Let’s just say my smartphone helps me look like a Dope when I am more than capable of doing that without any help.
Rauner eating state workers for example…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:55 pm
That line about ‘eating state workers’ got you 9″ of commentary on the hottest blog in Illinois.
Who you kiddin’?
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 2:59 pm
=== Demoralized - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 1:47 pm:
==I think he does. He refers to over paid state employees separately from taxpayers and working families.==
@AGuy, you aren’t very good at your communications job if you can’t even admit that the statement above is true. You chastised people for hating the guy no matter what. You are the opposite - defend him at all costs. Everybody needs to try to be objective. Plenty of people on here on both sides, including you and even me in some instances, have failed at that.====
Demo, that first quote is a hybrid of someone else’s post. It’s not me after “I think he does”.
We disagree that he’s stating that Illinois employees are not also hard working Illinois families. I simply think that’s an interpretation that satisfies a point others are making. Illinois workers are absolutely among the hard working Illinois families.
When I defend Rauner, I do it with some vigor. I don’t always defend him. Can’t and wouldn’t. Some threads I just leave alone hoping a purge will help. Others, the Gov may have missed the mark. I don’t attempt to defend those kind of things.
I didn’t chastise Sling for hating Rauner, I “observed” that he does and always has and it’s made any objective viewpoint nearly impossible.
I always try to be objective. It’s very hard. I fail at times. But, I try again the next day. I don’t keep as close a track of my body of work on CF as some others do-lol, but I think you’d find that the attempt at objectivity is always present.
I don’t think the Governor was communicating that Illinois workers are not members of hard working Illinois families. I do think he was speaking to Illinois tax payers who are fed up. Before, anyone jumps on this; yes, I completely understand that Public Service Employees are taxpayers too.
Hope this helps a little.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:10 pm
Guy, you should cut your losses. Your spin is weak.
And if you can’t keep track of what you say, maybe your observations about others don’t really have any validity.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:22 pm
Sling, your lack of kindness and tact means you will not be invited to my red office anytime soon.
I like Demo, so I answered his query. I don’t need to keep track of anything as long as you’re here. I’ve been remiss in…thanking you for memorizing my posts. I’m flattered.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:28 pm
==How do you know it’s the exact same job? Do you really want a race to the bottom? Who does that benefit?==
The “0.01 percent.”
==I don’t think Rauner made that distinction.==
A guy, you might want to read what your governor actually puts out.
Literally, “Illinois State Government Pay vs. Working Family Pay.”
Comment by Precinct Captain Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:32 pm
==We disagree that he’s stating that Illinois employees are not also hard working Illinois families.==
==I don’t think the Governor was communicating that Illinois workers are not members of hard working Illinois families.==
I’m not sure why he would make a distinction between the two if he didn’t intend it to be taken that way. Given his anti-state employee rhetoric I’d err on the side that he meant to make a distinction. But whatever.
==I do think he was speaking to Illinois tax payers who are fed up. ==
Yes, and it’s a shame he’s reinforcing that viewpoint with his hateful (which is what I believe) comments about state employees.
I find it odd that on the one hand he sends out messages and tells state employees how much he values them, and on the other demonizes them as overpaid. Which is it? Are they valued or are they overpaid? They can’t be both. Because if you say they are overpaid you obviously don’t value them.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:43 pm
Don’t pay too much attention to what he says; pay VERY CLOSE attention to what he does, or attempts, to do.
Comment by Buzzie Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:59 pm
I know a couple people who are state employees who deal with the public. They couldn’t pay me enough money to be treated the way they are treated by the public. Racial slurs. Being called stupid. One guy I know was threatened and another was spit on. Who needs that.
Comment by lil enchilada Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 3:59 pm
P Cap, he’s “our” Governor, assuming you live here. Your copy and paste of the statement does not cause me to extrapolate out what you do. That isn’t a surprise. Add something to the conversation or just watch and learn.
That presser from ASFSCME was directed at you with all the hyperbole. Gotta give that to ‘em, they know their audience.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:13 pm
If I were AFSCME, I would put out an ad showing all of the government workers who are out there dealing with the snow. Then point out how these are the very people whose pay and pensions are being cut. Then a film clip showing what things would be like if that work was privatized or stripped down to a skeletal low paid staff. A panicking family and an ambulance stuck in a snow drift. Phone calls to an anonymous corporation answered of course by someone overseas …It’s the Bruce Rauner way.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:19 pm
Guy, don’t need to memorize your posts, they’re in writing. Try reading, and you might come across something of interest.
Perhaps you have a hard time recalling what you write because so little thought is put into it or it’s not based in any real belief or point of fact.
Comment by Wordslinger Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:29 pm
In the adult world, apparently it is de rigeur to trash other adults — all to gain status in the pecking order of life. Since our governor is pretty high up there, at least economically, you have to wonder what the venom is about. I wonder if this is how some of these folks would like teachers to treat their students…you know….to get them ready for the realities of life. Tell them they’re not worth much, they overrate their value, etc. In any management class you will learn about motivational strategies, that if simplified, all boil down to the fact that if you reward and acknowledge peoples’ work and effort, they will not only do better but will want to do so.
I guess Bruce didn’t attend those classes or else doesn’t give a ****.
Comment by AnonymousOne Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:34 pm
Juvenal 2:15–
My point was that the net median income in regard to migration is a loss. As I noted, overall median nationwide has gone up, along with tax receipts, Illinois included. Another poster noted the influence of the Chicago area on the median statistic. As long as we have a net loss of higher earners while replacing them with fewer lower earners, we have a drag on the Illinois economy, and tax receipts. Not saying median income (and tax receipts) as a whole haven’t increased, but both are definitely not increasing as much were the migration demographics reversed.
Comment by The Whole Truth Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:48 pm
You’re on to me Sling.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:54 pm
==- A guy - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:13 pm:==
Lifelong Illinoisan. You might want to take Wordslinger’s advice and read. I’ll direct you where to start. These are Bruce Rauner’s own words, drawing a line between public sector workers and other citizens.
“It’s a great deal if you’re in the union, or if you’re a politician who is showered with union cash; a terrible deal if you’re an Illinois taxpayer or one who depends on public services.”
http://brucerauner.com/government-unions-and-the-downfall-of-illinois-2/
You obviously know nothing about me if you think I am in the ASFSCME audience. I have had more than of enough of AFSCME members telling me to “[expletive] off.”
Comment by Precinct Captain Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 4:54 pm
Oh, I see:
If you don’t count the seven million people living in the Chicagoland area, Illinois isn’t doing very well.
Thanks for that.
To Blankster, a seriously doubt you are looking at your neighbors $85,000 salary as a mechanic, although I suppose it is possible.
My bet is you are looking at compensation, which includes overtime, which mechanics have gotten a lot of because of hiring freezes. The union has actually been pushing to change that.
But by all means, anyone who thinks mechanics are overpaid ought to become a mechanic, or a teacher, or a prison job, or whatever cushy job it is you think someone else
Has. If you are over forty, I can almost guarantee you that there is someone, somewhere who can do your current job just as well for about half the money.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 5:04 pm
Juv-
You are missing the point entirely.
Once more, if your net migration is a minus, in both numbers and median income, its a drag on the economy. Thats just simple math.
That doesn’t mean the median income for the state is “down” as compared to years past or the nation as a whole. It does mean that our median income and tax receipts are not as high as they should be, and would be, were the migration numbers reversed. The Chicago reference is only to illustrate the skew Cook county introduces to the rest of the State, a point made by other commenters.
Comment by The Whole Truth Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 5:15 pm
average state. is how old? years of service? Ask yourself.how do live. in Chicago on $35,000?? average rent? mortgage? will there be enough for food? something special for your child? don’t fall into the trap of pi
Comment by stop think and dont react Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 5:40 pm
- stop think and dont react - Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 5:40 pm:
Thank You
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 6:19 pm
I don’t know what you are basing your claim that the median income of people arriving is less than the median income of people leaving.
But given that the number one state they are leaving Illinois for is California, It sounds like you are suggesting we try to be more like Callfornia.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 6:51 pm
Someone with more patience than me can consult the Personnel Code in detail, but from what I have read the state can’t arbitrarily cut any worker’s salary. There has to be a case-by-case review that the individual is performing job duties associated with a lower paid title.
Anyone else with more information, please chime in.
Comment by DuPage Dave Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 7:23 pm
Juv-
See this link for a synopsis.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/out-migration-is-breaking-illinois-budgets/
We are already like California, and in many respects in worse shape.
Comment by The Whole Truth Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 7:34 pm
I just wonder how many of the comments were state workers on state time posting all these comments?
Comment by LookingBack Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 7:45 pm
- LookingBack -,
I give up Sherlock Holmes, how many?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 7:49 pm
It is my understanding that in many unionized,
seniority-based hiring system, there are procedures for selecting a demonstrably superior lower-seniority candidate. Of course, it takes work, but it is possible. Hiring procedures often have flexibility if you read the fine print.
Comment by Cassandra Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 7:54 pm
Next up: Prevailing Wage
“…the administration of Gov. Bruce Rauner is eyeing a way to reduce the cost of the Executive Mansion’s repairs as well as every other state or local government construction project. Their solution may be eliminating the prevailing wage.”
“If Newman’s company, Newman-Alton Inc., were to pay the prevailing wage, the cost to the taxpayers to repair the mansion would be $1.91 million. If there were no prevailing wage law his firm would charge $1.56 million,” he said.”
http://ilnews.org/3940/governors-mansion-repair-bid-opens-discussion-on-prevailing-wage/
Of course, without prevailing wage, a contractor for Mississippi would probably under bid him. Now, that would save the state some serious money.
Prevailing wage is not about union or non-union, it’s about keeping the tax payer dollars local.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 8:31 pm
@LookingBack
An economist’s guess is liable to be as good as anybody else’s. I bet your brain feels good as new, seeing you’ve never used it.
Comment by ValT34 Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 8:41 pm
The Whole Truth -
Oh! I did not realize that we were back to debating Illinois Policy Institute Talking points.
According to their data, the period of most devastating migration in the past 20 years was under Governors Edgar and Ryan.
Nearly anyone with any sense will tell you that we are paying a steep price now for the failure of Ryan and Edgar to fix school funding 18 years ago.
You will notice that very few people polled by Pew said that they wanted to leave Illinois because of taxes. Job opportunities are dwindling here because our woefully underfunded schools cannot provide an adequate work force.
Comment by Juvenal Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 8:53 pm
– Cassandra —
In my experience, “demonstrably superior” would have to include the ability to walk on water or similar miracles, especially when trying to bypass a union favorite or a political hire.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 8:58 pm
Juv-
The info has been out for some time and is footnoted with citations. I’m sorry you don’t like the source for whatever reasons, but I have yet to see any research or data refuting or contradicting the info in the link. This one has more specifics:
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/high-earners-leaving-illinois-in-droves/
I make no claim as to who is to blame for the State’s finacial decline and our poor rankings. I only recognize the reality of where we are and the enormity of fixing it. I admit to being a bit mystified by those who can only try to pin blame and find fault with any meaningful effort to begin the difficult process of digging ourselves out, which has been put off far too long.
We have to start somewhere with something different….continuing what we’ve been doing isn’t working. A combination of what may be painful cuts along with tax increases looks to be the most pragmatic course, and that appears to be the one we’re starting down.
Blaming any or all past administrations and legislatures may be an amusing diversion for some, but doesn’t change where we are, what has to be done, or advance any remedies.
Comment by The Whole Truth Tuesday, Feb 3, 15 @ 9:11 pm
How did we get here? Look at the existing union contracts (negotiated around the 2012 election).
For IDOT technical employees -
July 1, 2013 2% raise
July 1, 2014 2% raise
January 1, 2013, January 1, 2014, and December 16, 2014 3% raise if in position for 5 years and not at mid-point salary range (most employees receive this raise)
December 31, 2014 2% raise
Due to compounding, this results in increasing salaries by 15.96% over the contract. Previous contracts (under Blago) provided even bigger raises.
Employees deserve fair compensation and raises are nice. However, this was not done for the workers because non-union workers without political clout have not received a raise in 10+ years. This was done to pay back the union for support - and that is the problem.
Comment by Highway Engineer Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 6:53 am
At my first job twenty years ago, I was told, if you didn’t get a 5% raise, you didn’t get a raise. Then again, it was the private sector.
Comment by Carhart Representative Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 8:04 am
The Dec 31. 2% is a raise in the pay brackets. Not a raise for the workers salary
Comment by Pugluv Wednesday, Feb 4, 15 @ 8:04 am