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* From yesterday near the Quad Cities…
“The critical thing is we get a balanced budget not a phony budget and what I do not support is a month-to-month unbalanced phony budget, so all we’re doing is breaking a phony budget up into 12 one-month pieces and going month-to-month,” [Gov. Rauner] said. “That’s not the right way to go.”
Rauner also said they have plans to keep state services afloat if the budget doesn’t pass before July 1st.
If he’s gonna make promises like that, he’d better be prepared to keep ‘em.
* The question now is what can he do to make that happen? If he vetoes everything outright, there will be no spending authority for most programs…
Absent an agreement on a budget by July 1, payments from the state to most groups — social service agencies, the needy, Medicaid providers — will grind to an abrupt halt, state Comptroller Leslie Munger warned Thursday.
“There will be very real consequences for taxpayers and organizations in every part of our state, and sadly the situation will be hardest on those who are most vulnerable in our state, those who can least afford to go without help from the state,” she said during a visit to Peoria’s City Hall to urge legislative leaders to reach an agreement with Gov. Bruce Rauner on a spending plan.
The new fiscal year is supposed to begin July 1. But without legal authority under a budget to spend money, Munger’s hands are effectively tied.
In addition to holding off on funds for not-for-profits, the impoverished and others, expedited payments to service providers will be halted. Once July 15 rolls around, state employees will miss payroll but still be expected to show up to work.
* But he could use his veto pen selectively…
The Governor may reduce or veto any item of appropriations in a bill presented to him. Portions of a bill not reduced or vetoed shall become law.
So, he could reduce or line item veto some specific appropriations in all the bills. That would allow him to spend all the other un-vetoed lines in the bills and spend the reduced lines up to his veto point.
But he keeps saying he won’t tolerate a “phony” unbalanced budget, meaning he’ll have to find as much as $4 billion in cuts to make his rhetoric match his action.
* There are several things that can’t be touched, like pension, bond and local government payments, which all have continuing resolutions. They are also very big-ticket items.
Rauner has pledged to never cut K-12 education spending, which is one of the biggest tickets of the big tickets. The feds aren’t going to let the state get away with massive Medicaid cuts, which is another huge spending driver. There are judicial consent decrees about programs at DCFS and other court cases involving the Department of Corrections, two more expensive state tasks.
So, what’s left? Social service grants take up a big chunk, but many are extremely important. He’ll have no choice but to cut them, even though, in my opinion, they fall under the purview of “state services” that he promised yesterday to keep “afloat.”
State parks, universities, community colleges, state police, environmental protection, the myriad number of agriculture programs, and on and on and on and on would have to be on the chopping block. But those are all state services, right?
* So, maybe he does a 20-30 percent across the board cut or something. But there’s only so much of that you can do without having to shut down lots and lots of services.
All I gotta say is, I wouldn’t want to be Tim Nuding right now.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:26 am
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Not only does DCFS operate under consent decrees, DHS does so also. And many DHS programs such as early intervention, childcare and funeral & burial coverage will get instant attention and press if they are cut.
Comment by Give Me A Break Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:34 am
More promises that Rauner won’t be able to keep.
Comment by DuPage Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:38 am
Rich, you’re getting into too much detail. Better stick with “phony” and “unphony.”
Comment by Sir Reel Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:39 am
I think Rich identifies the at-risk list very well. Some are things where private giving can make a difference, like higher ed and social service grants. If push comes to shove maybe we’ll see whether anyone, Rauner and his rich friends, or the middle class the Dems claim to care about, steps up.
Comment by Harry Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:39 am
He won’t cut the full $4 billion. He’ll cut a decent chunk of it, make some funny noises, and everyone will pretend the rest actually is balanced. Same as it ever was.
Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:40 am
Perhaps it is beginning to dawn on the governor that state budgets end up having real consequences for real people.
Time to make a deal.
Comment by DuPage Dave Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:41 am
“Everyone” includes GA leadership. Some of the usual suspects will point out the Emperor’s clothes, though, and that’ll do about as much as it always does.
Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:42 am
“The feds aren’t going to let the state get away with massive Medicaid cuts, which is another huge spending driver.”
Both for the large cost and his ideology, this seems like a likely target. Why do you think the federal government can stop that, isn’t it a State-run program?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:43 am
It’s becoming less and less apparent how the Governor wins in this standoff. The only real advantage he has is his personal money. With all of the budget items listed in this post, the “discretionary” items will need to be gutted in order to make a dent in the deficit. Eventually GOP members of the House and Senate will have to distance themselves from him. His promises of financial cover for taking tough votes on budget cuts will not be enough to make these members to eviscerate programs important to their constituencies.
The gov’s hand gets weaker by the day. If he compromises and doesn’t get enough in return, he will seem weak. If he drives us over the cliff, and makes draconian cuts to vital social service programs, he will seem irrational. Bad spot to be in.
Comment by Anon Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:44 am
For me, thus goes back to the “Thompson Pivot”.
Why go out of the way to proclaim thibgs are far worse, things are dire, the budget is just so far out of whack, thst looking at it now, to try to keep all of my promises would not help because the state is so, so bad, we all need to look at thibgs differently.
My goodness gracious, Rauner had and even gave himself the out very early on.
Now, the “Thompson Pivot” is indeed caving. It’s too late to be surprised about the Democrats’ phony budget, or surprised, Governor Rauner, about the phony budget you, governor, rolled out.
The deals that could’ve happened. The real leverage Rauner would’ve had; “I just put revenue squarely on the table, I’m owning it, now I want… ”
I find myself looking at a Governor, painted in a corner with these QC quotes, and Rauner, personally, is on the road. Wasn’t it Rauner who said about himself that Madigan never negotiated with someone like me.
How about you actually BE the negotiator, abd not the one throwing grenades from the Mansion figurative and actual bunker, that may be poisoning the Staff negotiations.
I feel bad for Nuding. I actually feel bad for Mike Z and Lance too because if they all signed up for the burning down of the village while smiling about how everyone is cordial, that would surprise me. “I’m going to help by making sure the governor is polarizing to making a deal.” No way.
I thought Rauner has 3 tasks, in the first 6 months, then victory was Rauner’s, no discussion;
FY2015 Fix, FY2016 budget, Union contract.
Two of three are easier, the contract was never going to be easy.
The FY2015 Fix is tainted with the Good Friday Massacre, the FY2016 budget, all of them, are phony, and a lockout is more likely than agreement, today.
Where are the successes, Rauner Crew. Where?
These talking out of both dudes of the mouth events, not helping.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:44 am
No worries then. The Big Dog will work his mad executivin’ skills.
When the Frat Boys let him off the porch, he gets himself into all kinds of goofy predicaments.
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:45 am
Not to say that Corrections and DCFS couldn’t be doing the right thing and reducing their institutional populations (foster care, group care, prisons), which would save money and improve lives the right way. But that’s a longer-term project, and who’s watching. Certainly not the many, many state bureaucrats who make a comfortable living at DCFS and Corrections from the status quo. And the numerous rural and semi[rural towns whose economies live off the misery of others.
Plenty of money coming in from us taxpayers. Plenty of time to decide when to hit up the middle class for a new chunk of change-and to decide how blame will be apportioned. If there are legal impediments to paying for stuff in the first part of the fiscal year, I bet solutions will be found, as they have in the past, apparently.
Comment by Cassandra Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:46 am
OW, “dudes of the mouth” is probably a typo but its a keeper as a phrase.
Comment by Bill White Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:53 am
I thought it added something, lol… Never thought “sides” would come out “dudes”, my apologies.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:55 am
== OW, “dudes of the mouth” is probably a typo but its a keeper as a phrase. ==
+1. Captures the spirit of the enterprise.
Comment by Toffee Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 9:57 am
==Some are things where private giving can make a difference, like higher ed==
I don’t see private giving being a factor in helping most of the state universities should their state funds be shut off. The non-research state universities rely on state money for about half of their operating budget. It would require an awful lot of private giving to make up for that, unless you are calling tuition hikes private giving. However, most schools have had to already set their tuition rates for the upcoming school year.
Comment by Joe M Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:09 am
“Dudes of the Mouth” sounds like a CMT reality show.
Governor Rauner needs to buy Mr. Nuding a partial season ticket plan for 2016.
Comment by Team Sleep Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:11 am
All the knee-jerk reaction to every newspaper quote by either side seems a bit paranoid to me. We’ve been through this before - and with a less rational Governor. It’s way to early for Rauner to cave to Madigan. He does that, and he’s everything he ran against. Another problem - at least for the Dems - is that he believes what he says. He’s not going to just suddenly change his mind. Until the budget is actually sent to his desk, it’s arguable Rauner has to do anything. Madigan and Cullerton are either going to have to negotiate a deal before the fit hits the shan, or they’re going to have to send him the budget they passed and risk him hacking it to pieces with the veto pen to make it balance with a smaller revenue increase than they could negotiate if they were serious. As I said before, wake me when something meaningful happens…
Comment by Amuzing Myself Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:14 am
===Rauner also said they have plans to keep state services afloat if the budget doesn’t pass before July 1st.===
How much anyone agrees or disagrees with the plans is subjective, but does anyone truly doubt they exist?
Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:16 am
As universities like the U of I continue to raise tuition to the point that most alum can’t afford to send their kids there, private giving is going to decrease - not increase. Besides, where is all this new donated money going to come from with higher taxes to go along with regular cost-of-living increases without wages keeping up? I need to get me one of those trees people apparently have money growing on!
Comment by Amuzing Myself Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:17 am
I believe that moderate revenue increases, enough to make a vital budget difference and help close the $4 billion gap, will not hurt the state and will significantly help it.
The unemployment rate dropped substantially during the temporary tax increase period. I believe that bigger economic forces are much more responsible for job creation and destruction than just taxes. If the economy doesn’t stagnate or crash, we should be fine with modest tax increases.
I read that some Republicans in other state governments are trying to raise taxes to deal with budget shortages, and, gasp, they might be violating their Norquist anti-tax pledges. Imagine that, some of these types say their opponents buy politicians and are insiders, and all the while they’ve sworn allegiance to Norquist and his huge, very-wealthy special interests.
Comment by Grandson of Man Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:21 am
I feel all warm and fuzzy now……Rauner has certainly never broken any promises, right? In all fairness, Rauner does have some good ideas and I think many people could get behind some of them but for crying out loud it doesn’t have to all be done the first 6 months and it’s not going to get done by alienating those who could help you do it! Learn patience and compromise, Grasshopper
Comment by Former Merit Comp Slave Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:21 am
Guy, the existence of a fantasy plan based on nonsensical assumptions is not as reassuring as you might think.
Arithmetic is immune to the charms of a smooth-talking hustler.
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:23 am
Rauner is just flailing. There had been new governors before. We’ve had opposing parties dominating the Mansion and the GA before. None of this is new stuff. We’ve had problem budgeting before. We’ve seen tough times before.
Rauner came in with a sizable election win. While the GA wasn’t effected, it was the responsibility of Rauner and his crew to use that election win wisely. They didn’t. Instead of pleasantly dealing with the GA and making bipartisan friends, Rauner lost his marbles completely. Instead of acting like a part of the Illinois governing process - Rauner acted like he BOUGHT Illinois. He acted not like a governor - but as an OWNER.
Rauner verified all the negative stereotypes put forwards during last year, and failed to verify any of the positive ones. His win did not erase public memories. His governing made these attacks credible and true. Rauner acted like an OWNER of Illinois - not as our governor.
Even the best governor would have a tough go of it today. For Rauner, he dug himself into a hole, using his mouth. Voluntarily. He shot himself in both feet.
He stripped himself of the mandate he had by stretching it beyond its capacity. He stripped himself of the honeymoon new governors and their administration receive by personally attacking the other state leaders, whom had just as important an election mandate, has he.
He painted himself into a corner and is how using the powers of the Office to hurt Illinoisans dependent during these hard times, to state assistance. For crying out loud, he voluntarily announced cuts on Good Friday, to only rescind them once his administration discovered it was being foolish. This new administration has lost so much credibility since Inaugural Day, it lost so much goodwill, it will take the rest of his term in office to erase his disasters he inflicted upon us during his first six months.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:24 am
What rauner means by ” keep state services afloat” may not mean anything close to business as usual. I expect no budget by july 15, contract impasse, lockout, possible layoffs, and maybe an attempt to hire some temporary workers. Tho w no budget bill delivered to him, i dont see where he has any resources to hire temps, or do anything but slash and burn.
Comment by Langhorne Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:32 am
===keep state services afloat===
I believe he’s referring to the leaks in the Governor’s mansion, and his recent dingy purchase.
Comment by PublicServant Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:34 am
===How much anyone agrees or disagrees with the plans is subjective, but does anyone truly doubt they exist?===
Leslie Munger expressed some doubt the other day. Something about her office lacking the legal authority to issue any state payments after July 1.
Is suspending the state constitution part of Governor Rauner’s plan? Because if not, he’s really going to need a lawfully passed budget to “keep state services afloat,” (assuming his own yacht isn’t big enough for that).
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:46 am
Rauner Cuts /ˈrounər kəts/ n. The reduction or veto of budget items presented to Governor Bruce Rauner.
Good luck to Superstars™ trying to shirk the blame for the pain if they go that route.
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:46 am
So the man that is willing (some say eager) to leverage the pain of an unbalanced budget to get his agenda passed now claims to know how to keep those services afloat during the impasse?
Please governor, tell us more about these “plans”?
Comment by Abe the Babe Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:49 am
It still appears from Rauner’s statements, that a balanced budget agreement would be “phony” if the Dems don’t give him some of his non-budget turnaround items.
Comment by walker Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:50 am
I hope he does indeed have a plan.
It is hard to see where he thinks the comptroller will have the authority to issue checks without a budget.
Comment by Juvenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:53 am
===It is hard to see where he thinks the comptroller will have the authority to issue checks without a budget. ===
Try reading the entire post then.
Sheesh. It’s laid out for you in plain English.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:55 am
Medicaid, Pensions, and Education are what are driving this deficit, with some contributions from capital and services.
As was said earlier, there’s limited room for change in Medicaid since we made a deal with the devil and took the Obamacare money for Medicaid expansion.
I have yet to see a plan to reduce new pension obligations to the absolute minimum constitutionally allowed for public workers, but that has to come soon, as well as a “luxury pension cost shift” for schools and municipalities for highly compensated workers and pension spiking.
We need serious deferrals in capital projects for the next couple years, as well as structural cost reform for things like Prevailing wage and PLAs. Only safety related new “needs” can be funded. “wants” will have to wait.
There’s a lot of room for savings in higher ed, and Rauner has to make the point that the priority has to be instruction of Illinois students. The 60% of other university spending should all be on the table, and administrations should be called to justify the value of that spending.
K-12 has a lot of room for cost reform with Illinois spending 18% above national average per student. Getting state savings while cost shifting for pensions will not be helpful in this year’s budget, however.
I’m afraid that a temp income tax increase, AGAIN, will be necessary, but hopefully with someone that will hold the GA accountable for cost reform in the Guv’s mansion now, maybe that hammer can hit the nail in the head.
It’s been said that politics, like marriage, is the triumph of hope over experience. I think that’s about the best we can do here.
Comment by Arizona Bob Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:56 am
I can’t agree that Rauner had a sizable election win. He got 50.27 percent of all votes cast, meaning that just barely half the people who bothered to vote wanted to roll the dice on Rauner.
Rauner got 1,823,627 votes while 1,804,063 people voted for somebody else. So that’s a margin of 19,564 votes, or 0.54 percent of all votes cast.
So yes, Quinn did poorly in the election. But “Not Rauner” did very well. It would help if the governor understood that he didn’t get 90 percent of the votes.
Comment by DuPage Dave Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:02 am
Picketts Charge was a plan. Lee was a brilliant strategist.
He had other alternatives. But somehow Lee convinced himself that marching 12,500 men in columns across a mile of open field into the teeth of artillery and riflemen behind a stone wall on a hill was a plan with a reasonable chance of success.
Everyone around him knew it was lunacy, and told him so.
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:11 am
==I have yet to see a plan to reduce new pension obligations to the absolute minimum constitutionally allowed for public workers==
Arizona Bob, what part of SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS in the Illinois Constitution is it that you don’t understand?
Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
If that doesn’t explain it for you, perhaps you should read the recent Illinois Supreme Court opinion on the pension law that had been passed.
Comment by Joe M Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:13 am
=== Wordslinger - Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 10:23 am:
Guy, the existence of a fantasy plan based on nonsensical assumptions is not as reassuring as you might think.
Arithmetic is immune to the charms of a smooth-talking hustler.===
That’s poetry man. I’m going to start comparing you and our governor from now on.
Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:18 am
JEB Stuart let Pickett down, or so some assert.
Comment by Bill White Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:30 am
This is scary, and I am not being snarkey. What plan of Rauner’s besides getting elected has been effectively implemented? He talked of not needing the 5% tax rate to balance the budget, more money for school, increase in road funding, pension reform, etc. His superstar filled administration does not appear to be very effective at anything, but rhetoric for the most part.
I am afraid it is a game of chicken, but one of the participants doesn’t fully understand the consequences of crashing, when the last moment to bail out occurs, or even how to bailout of the game. Yikes I need a drink . . . surely its after 5:00 p.m. somewhere, need to adjust my clock.
Comment by RD55 Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:38 am
+1 DuPage Dave.
Anyone who thinks Rauner got a “sizable” election win is delusional. He won, yes. But there’s no mandate there — and like many elections these days, is essentially split down the middle.
But, yeah — he won. I get it. Madigan did, too. Cullerton did, too. The Ds who have the super majority did, too.
So I’m not sure where “mine is bigger than yours” gets us anywhere — except to say, “Yeah, Rauner won.”
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:39 am
BW, Stuart was in Meade’s rear, engaged with the Union Cavalry. I think you’re referring to Stuart’s late arrival at Gettysburg on the second day, which deprived Lee of intelligence on Union strength and whereabouts.
Picketts Charge itself on the third day was all on Lee. Straight march across an open field up a hill into heavily fortified defenses.
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:46 am
Pickett’s Charge was preceded by an artillery bombardment of 150 Confederate guns. Like our Governor’s salvos, they mostly missed their mark.
Comment by Midway Gardens Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 11:55 am
==with Illinois spending 18% above national average per student==
Who cares Bob. What is it with you and averages? I guess we should all strive to just be average? That seems to be your solution for everything. If we were only “average” we’d be ok.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:05 pm
It is my understand that Rauner cut public universities by 30% of their GRF funding.
Am I wrong? If not, then there is even less to cut unless he cuts them even more.
As to Medicaid, many services in illinois are not required by federal law but are optional. How does this play out? Will the FEDS say you can not do this because of your participation in ACA - or something else?
Anyone, thought this out and know more details. Because if he can cut ‘optional’ programs in Medicaid he can reduce their budget by signifacant amounts.
Comment by Federalist Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:05 pm
==the existence of a fantasy plan based on nonsensical assumptions==
With due respect, the plans are neither a fantasy nor are they nonsensical (at least in terms of assumptions). This isn’t a game and the implementation of what’s coming is going to suck big time. That’s all I’ll say.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:08 pm
@Joe M, that contractual agreement doesn’t apply to new workers. There can be savings there. “double dipping” employees who take one pension and then draw a salary, and later draw a second public pension, may qualify as a “new” public employee in their second public job, so perhaps they may be excluded from getting the second pension.
Individually, none of this will solve the problem in its own. In the aggregate,it may make a dent.
I understand the “impair nor diminish” clause. I guess you don’t understand that a contract with a new employee cannot be “diminished nor impaired” until they’re actually in the job and have a contractual agreement with the state.
It’s not that simple, of course. There are limitations on how much has to be given to public employees when SSC isn’t included. I just want to see a plan that identifies what the savings could be if those future employees that currently don’t have a contractual agreement with the pension plans with the state were minimized.
Comment by Arizona Bob Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:09 pm
FM, winning is a mandate. Nothing conditional about it. So move on.
Comment by A guy Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:10 pm
Bob:
They already changed the system for new workers a few years ago and it looks remarkably similar to what they are trying to do to current workers. I’m not sure what else they could do short of moving new workers to a 401K system.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:13 pm
@Dem
=Who cares Bob. What is it with you and averages? I guess we should all strive to just be average? That seems to be your solution for everything. If we were only “average” we’d be ok=
I know statistics and cost benchmarking is beyond the ken of most folks like you, Dem, but at some point a sound manager has to be able to spend comparably to the value received. Results from Illinois K-12 public education is average at best according to NAEP, so fairness demands that costs should be close to the average, especially when excessive spending without providing commensurate value is driving the state to insolvency.
I know that spending proportionately to value is a foreign concept to most public workers, but try to wrap your head around it for awhile.
Comment by Arizona Bob Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:14 pm
@Dem
Flames aside, do you know if the new employee pension benefits are the minimum allowed by law?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the new employee benefits don’t apply to new TRS, SURS and SERS employees, do they?
No snark, serious question.
Comment by Arizona Bob Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Dave and Frenchie,
Rauner’s margin was bigger than Quinn’s in 2010. And Quinn’s win allowed the Democrats to draw a map that gave them a “supermajority.” So, what’s your point?
Comment by phocion Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Bob:
I’m not sure. I know there are those that believe there are issues with the Tier 2 system as far as federal law goes though. I think RNUG would be a better person to ask.
I’m not sure about TRS and SURS because I don’t have experience with those systems, but all new hires that are part of SERS are placed in the Tier 2 system. I’m not sure what you mean by new employee benefits not applying.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:22 pm
I just wander if this means that he will keep the programs afloat that he suspended and then gave the money back on Easter. My understanding is that these programs are still blacked out for fy2016
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:22 pm
==but hopefully with someone that will hold the GA accountable for cost reform in the Guv’s mansion now==
There isn’t such a person, at least by your definition. I mean, you laid out four areas to save money, and Rauner is crossways with you on three of them.
Comment by Arsenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:23 pm
Bob:
SERS has a good FAQ on Tier 1 and Tier 2 on their website if you are bored and want something to do. Just an FYI.
Comment by Demoralized Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:25 pm
Tier 2 applies anyone hired after January 1, 2011 who becomes a member of SURS, SERS, TRS, JRS and GARS and the local systems. It is very cheap, and at this point, moving new workers into a DC plan would cost us billions more by removing the employee, employer and interest earned out of the DB bucket.
Comment by Juice Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:31 pm
=== Try reading the entire post then.
Sheesh. It’s laid out for you in plain English. ===
I read the whole post.
If he uses the line item veto, there is a budget.
The whole point is kind of moot though, isn’t it, because Democrats are not going to send him a budget to veto unless there is an agreement on the vetoes.
That would in fact, be a budget agreement.
Comment by Juvenal Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:40 pm
Bob, in response to your question-Tier 2 has been found by at least one reputable actuarial firm as likely to violate the IRS’ Safe Harbor rule (which states more or less that benefits paid by pensions need to be in reasonable proportion to contributions to the plan.) A Federal determination that the rule has been violated can bring several unpleasant side effects, including required Social Security coverage for plan members not otherwise covered. The consensus appears to be a matter of when, not if, this blows up on us.
Therefore, I think it’s quite reasonable to call Tier 2 “the lowest constitutional benefit” or maybe “less than the minimum allowed by law.”
Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:46 pm
And by “State services afloat” I think he means the debris of our state services after being depth charged. I think it’s going to be a “Das Boot” experience.
Comment by Honeybear Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 12:56 pm
Carhart’s theory - (one “t”) - is that Stuart was supposed to have arrived at the Union line at the same time as Pickett, just from the other side.
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Triumph-Lees-Gettysburg-Failed/dp/0425207919
Comment by Bill White Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 1:12 pm
Some SERS employees pay into SS and 4% to the pension. Who are these employees and how many are there? Why are they set up like this?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 1:26 pm
=I have yet to see a plan to reduce new pension obligations to the absolute minimum constitutionally allowed for public workers, but that has to come soon, as well as a “luxury pension cost shift” for schools and municipalities for highly compensated workers and pension spiking.=
Tier 2 took effect on January 1, 2011. Nice of you to stay current on an issue you are so passionate about. Really establishes your credibility. As AA stated, Tier 2 is below the federal standard and the state will have to adjust in a few years, it will be BELOW not at the lowest standard.
Pension spiking? Still with that fable” It is a fable. Long since debunked by Eric Madair and never challenged by anyone with data, only those that want something to match a fact-less narrative.
Interesting you talk about averages, in one recent article Arizona, the state from which you take your moniker, was rated as the 5th worst value in education and, consistently performs in the bottom 15 in the US.
Illinois was ranked 17th, that would be ABOVE average given that we have 50 states.
BTW- again with averages, since Illinois has the 5th largest economy, by GDP, we really should be in the top 5 in education spending.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:07 pm
Anon 1:26, hit the Google, dude.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:21 pm
== Once July 15 rolls around, state employees will miss payroll but still be expected to show up to work. ===
But legally you have to pay employees under Illinois for work performed, and you can not delay payment… unless the state is going to claim it has sovereign immunity to its own wage laws… There is a bill we could use then, amend the law so that the State is required to pay for services rendered including a statutory authorization for the comptroller to pay….
Comment by Ghost Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:25 pm
Anonymous at 1:26 — I don’t know how many SERS employees are coordinated with SS, but I am one. It was not a choice — we were told that this is the deal. I started at IDOT in the 70’s — some of the older guys were straight state pension, but all in my age bracket had to pay into both.
Comment by kimocat Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:35 pm
—
There is a bill we could use then, amend the law so that the State is required to pay for services rendered including a statutory authorization for the comptroller to pay
—
I assume AFSCME will go to (Federal?) court to force payment. I thought this was the plan to make sure all employees are paid on time.
Really, if workers are expected to show up, then they should be paid. Even someone like Rauner has to understand that this is how labor works. If he’s expecting employees to work without payment, that’s pretty despicable, actually. And if so, that’s no leverage for a budget, no matter his “never let a crisis go to waste” mentality.
The other option is a partial shutdown, I assume — but then still those employees working will need to be paid.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:46 pm
There are less than 1% of the old “non-coordinated” members of SERS still on the payroll who don’t pay into SS, because they’d already be maxed out on their pension and have 47 years of state service. The “coordinated” system where employees pay into both the pension and SS has been in place for new hires since mid-1968.
However, the SERS employees represent only about a third of state pensions, with TRS and SURS who don’t pay into SS still being a majority.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:49 pm
===He won’t cut the full $4 billion. He’ll cut a decent chunk of it, make some funny noises, and everyone will pretend the rest actually is balanced.===
Lets say that this ‘pretend’ budget cut comes to pass and the after the cuts the budget is in fact unbalanced. And lets also say that someone who is cut is unhappy and goes to court claiming that the budget is not constitutional. Finally, lets assume that the court agrees and thus throws the ‘pretend’ budget out. I wonder what might happen then? Is Illinois then without any budget (balanced or unbalanced)? Could the state continue to pay anything to anyone?
Comment by Hit or Miss Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 2:55 pm
So, this state employee is only a few months away from retirement and wonders about what may happen. Frankly, I don’t want to stick around any longer than I have to. As it is, my apt lease is up a month before my planned retirement date.
But, more importantly, I wonder what may happen to my “rule of 85″ date depending on what occurs. If there is a lockout, does that push my retire date back? If the union votes to strike and I honor same, does it push the date back? I assume if I cross the picket line, it won’t change my retire date but, man, I have worked with some of these folks for 20 years - hard to see that happening. Finally, if there is no budget (and Rauner doesn’t sign a temp spending bill) and the state shuts down, do I lose that time as well? We have no union steward in our “shop” so am not able to get the info easily.
Comment by dupage dan Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:02 pm
DD, call SERS. (I’m guessing that’s where you are covered,) They are likely receiving similar questions and should be able to give you definitive guidance.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:28 pm
- spending proportionately to value is a foreign concept to most public workers -
But not to the worlds greatest and most interesting engineer, right?
He once designed nuclear plants, but decided the trades were too immoral.
He then designed school HVAC systems, but got upset over management collusion over scope of work and placed the blame on prevailing wage.
Then he moved on to highways, where again he blamed corrupt management practices on the workers, somehow.
He is the worlds most interesting engineer.
He may not always drink beer, but when he does, he blames unions.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 3:43 pm
Anon 3:43, very well played!
Comment by Arthur Andersen Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 4:05 pm
=He is the worlds most interesting engineer.=
LOL!!!!!
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Jun 12, 15 @ 4:07 pm