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* Much of today’s Tribune story covers ground that we’ve already discussed, particularly some of the governor’s harshest demands from AFSCME, including…
But perhaps the most charged proposal is the one that would halt the state’s long-standing tradition of withholding directly from paychecks union member dues and fees on non-members that fund union activities. Currently, that money is deducted along with taxes and health care premiums, and then routed back to the unions. Rauner wants to end that practice, essentially cutting off the regular, predictable flow of money to his union adversaries.
* But the Trib is also reporting this…
AFSCME wants an 11.5 percent pay raise over four years, two years of full health benefits for laid-off employees and what the administration describes as a more costly health care plan that offers orthodontics for adults.
Their last contract with Gov. Quinn gave them 4 percent raises over three years.
* Also, here’s something to keep in mind as the days click by…
First, the governor’s office would need to declare that negotiations have reached an impasse, which would then allow the administration to try to impose the terms of its “best and final” offer. The union has the right to appeal that move to the Illinois Labor Relations Board.
If the board sides with the union, talks resume. If the board sides with the administration, it’s up to union members to vote: Either go along with the governor’s final offer, or strike.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:28 am
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The 11.5% is just for their COLAs. If they are receiving step increases also, their raises over four years look more like 27%. Sign me up for that pay plan with my employer please!
Comment by Numbers Add Up Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:33 am
====AFSCME wants an 11.5 percent pay raise over four years, two years of full health benefits for laid-off employees and what the administration describes as a more costly health care plan that offers orthodontics for adults.====
If this is true, the sleddin’ is going to be pretty rough.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:35 am
AFSCME wants less than 3%/year (similar to historic averages for inflation) and a slight improvement in insurance, Rauner wants to decimate the union, their health insurance, take away holidays, and contract all their work. It’s easy for me to see which proposal is more extreme.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:36 am
The ILRB is traditionally labor friendly in Illinois. This is a dangerous game of chicken.
Comment by Stones Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:37 am
Whoa, I thought (based on comments made here) that AFSCME was just trying to hold the line on what they already had. So either 1) the Tribbies are wrong (always a possibility), or 2) AFSCME leadership is itching for a fight as much or more than the Administration is. Either way, it’s not good.
Comment by Secret Square Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:37 am
Rauner doesn’t care if they strike. It might even help him.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:40 am
Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:33 am:
You will be signed up for almost minimum wage then because The State starts employees off at a very low salary, bub.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:40 am
Press releases as negotiating tactics.
Waitin’ and seein’.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:42 am
I’m an AFSCME member and, frankly, the best I’m hoping for is keeping my job and not having my current pay slashed. If that 11.5% raise demand is true, then AFSCME leadership is delusional. No way can we afford that kind of raise.
Comment by ??? Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:44 am
Some of the Cook County government workers, the Service Employees International Union Local 73, just negotiated raises totaling 10.75 percent over five years.
But, I’m just guessing that some wage demands can be traded for more of the status quo in health insurance?
After all, what AFSCME negotiates in health insurance affects nearly 362,000 people that are enrolled in the state employees group health insurance plan — which covers both state and university workers — including active employees, retirees and dependents.
Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:45 am
If AFSCME started out asking for no raises, then if required to compromise, they would be expected to approve pay cuts. It is smarter to ask for a raise, to give oneself room to negotiate.
Comment by nona Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:47 am
AFSCME “demand” for raises is ridiculous given that state’s finances. To even ask for it does demonstrate how delusional their leaders are.
Comment by Cassiopeia Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:48 am
it’s called negotiations. i’m sure they are willing to meet a little closer to zero on pay raises. they’re just offering up demands that can be whittled down
Comment by trainin Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:48 am
It’s called negotiations. Start high, meet (hopefully) in the middle. Doubt Rauner is looking to meet anywhere near the middle.
Comment by The Equalizer Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:52 am
A 3% per year raise is a little higher than the annual inflation rate for most of the last few years. But you can also say that the 1% raises of the past few years were less than the inflation rate which was around 2%. So a 3% raise might be considered fair as catch-up.
Comment by A Jack Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:52 am
A 2.875% raise per year doesn’t sound that egregious.
According to InflationData (http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/currentinflation.asp), the average inflation rate in 2014 was 1.62%, so a +1.255% increase over inflation lets people get a little ahead.
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the last AFSCME contract had a lower pay raise rate due to the Union recognizing the downturn in the Illinois economy and it was their way of trying to help out.
Health benefits for those laid off is a reasonable negotiation subject, and could be reduced. Orthodontics is likewise a negotiable area.
All in all, those increases sound reasonable on face value and seem like things that can be negotiated rather than outright dismissed.
Comment by Name Withheld Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:53 am
Some unions has held the line to keep their jobs others don’t give a damn. Government unions always know the taxpayer’s are just cash cows. And the boy’s in Springfield push overs.
Comment by Mokenavince Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:53 am
The cost of living adjustment sounds reasonable, but when AFSCME spent Mullins of dollars to defeat Rauner, poorly informed rank and file,this will never happen.
Elections have consequences, AFSCME fails to realize this. Be happy if you get anything.
Comment by Almost the Weekend Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:54 am
AFCME is operating in moderation, Rauner in the extreme. This can all be worked out if both sides are reasonable…AFCME from a negotiating perspective is being reasonable — Rauner is not. This all plays into the Speakers mantra of operate in moderation and not the extreme and to solve issues both sides need to be reasonable.
what happens when the board sides with the union and talks continue, but nothing ever gets agreed to?
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:54 am
–You will be signed up for almost minimum wage then because The State starts employees off at a very low salary, bub.–
Where is that documentation at?
Comment by Ahoy! Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:54 am
I get the raises starting out negotiations as a chip to use later. I even get the layoff healthcare and orthodontics as chips. However it’s june 24 and contract is up July 1. Have either side moved?
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:55 am
Of course the union is asking for a 11.5% raise, they know they aren’t going to get it, it’s called negotiating.
Comment by Shanks Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:55 am
A few years ago, our public union contract, in the last year of the contract, called for a 4% raise. Administration came to the union and said they couldn’t afford it. The union members voted to cancel the raise completely, as long as the administrations books could be examined.
Then a few years after that, when another 4% raise came due, the administration again came to the union and again said they couldn’t afford it. The books showed they were not making that up. So in lieu of that 4% raise, the union worked with administration on a new contract that canceled that 4% raise and instead called for a 5% raise over 3 years - 1%, 2%, 2%.
The moral of the story - public employee unions are not the greedy demons some people point them out to be.
Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:57 am
facts - I’m afraid that 11% pay raise (and other benefit hikes) will not seem much like “moderation” to the general public when Rauner says he needs to to keep costs in line to pay down the state’s debt and avoid taking local funds.
Comment by Orange Julius Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:57 am
I think the audience will decide where “extreme” belongs.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:57 am
==All in all, those increases sound reasonable==
Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”
Employee: “Interesting. So, I want a raise and better benefits.”
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:59 am
The 11.5% figure is the compounded total increase over the life of the contract and you can not just divide the years of the contract into the 11.5 figure. AFCME realizes they won’t get 11.5% - works out to about 2.8% a year - but that is reasonable to start there and bargain down to something between that and zero. Rauner’s proposals are in the extreme other then on pay. He is starting at zero raises and I think on pay the parties should be able to reach an agreement. AFCME has some demands that they know are throw away demands, but Rauner is trying to decimate the union.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:59 am
I wouldn’t comment directly on AFSCME’s request, but by way of comparison, reimbursement rate increases for substance abuse treatment providers have been so few and far between (typically 8 or 9 year intervals - and this includes COLAs) that an independent study commissioned by IADDA showed that reimbursement rates are about 118% below where they should be based on what they were established at in the first place. I think mental health providers and disabilities providers would say something similar.
Comment by JCollord Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:00 pm
More ==extreme== statements from the long hot summer. - MJM /s
Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:02 pm
Mason born, I agree. I understand the negotiating thing, but I also am curious as to whether either side has budged an inch as we head into the new fiscal year next week with no budget in sight. I’ve seen nothing indicating that they have.
Comment by ??? Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:02 pm
I think “11.5% over four years” means step increases of a little less than a year for four years, less than the 4.8% current step increases. I don’t think it means an 11.5% raise every year for four years.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:04 pm
@ Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:59 am:
=Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”=
Perhaps it could be that the employees are saying, hey the issue is you purposely slashed prices below the cost of production (lowered taxes) when we were selling plenty of widgets. You created the problem and now want to fix it on our backs. Not sure a business analysis is the best way to go, but thought I would stay with it sense you used that example.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:05 pm
the point of the article and what seems to be missing from this discussion is that the Tribune states 11% but fails to mention the details in healthcare. which would cost a family if they were ill 20 thousand between. deductible and copays
Comment by real estate Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:05 pm
===Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”===
Arduin: So, does that mean you can then pay my $30,000 per month contract?
Employer: Oh sure. It’s the “other” overpaid people we don’t want to pay.
Comment by Name Withheld Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:06 pm
- Ahoy! - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:54 am:
It is a fact. The salary of incoming State Employees is very low. Salaries of different positions are on the web and they are lower then the general public in the private sector. Once a person reaches the highest step, they are closer to private sector positions.
State employees sacrifice a lot in the first ten years of employment in order to get up to the highest Step.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:07 pm
I think Rauner is definitely going to ask this generation of state employees to help pay off the state’s debt via wage freezes and benefit cuts. I think he will ask local governments to do the same thing.
Comment by Orange Julius Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:08 pm
Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”
Chairman of the Board: “I move that we all get 7-digit bonuses, any seconds?”
At least that’s how it seems to work in Private Industry. If the perception of the “greedy Union” is right, then tell me mine is wrong too.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:09 pm
My wife’s school district just agreed on a 4 year contract that calls for (I believe) 2.5%, 2.5%, 2.875%, and 3% increases. It always sounds worse when you add them together than when you break it down by year.
Comment by Fiercely Independent Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:10 pm
I am actually amazed given how many state workers read this blog that there is no commentary on the dues check off elimination being proposed by the Governor. You all do understand how the public sector will be rapidly defunded if that was to happen?
Comment by Rod Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:13 pm
A little less than 3 percent a year
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:16 pm
Use your heads people: AFSCME is not new to collective bargaining. No one negotiates starting with their bottom line, especially when they’re trying to avoid impasse.
Comment by RS in Elgin Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:16 pm
Does anyone know which private sector companies have contracts with unions and refuse to deduct dues from the paychecks of employees who authorize it?
Comment by Truthteller Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:17 pm
Let see how will TeamBungle handle? Hard to blame Madigan — unless they name him chief negotiator — now that is a brainstorm.
Comment by Anonin' Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:18 pm
Health care caught my eye. I’m a former state employee who loved my job there but moved on. Most state employees do not appreciate out great their health care benefits are. Plus they have more than 1 option. Much better than private sector. And 2 years of coverage for laid off employees? really?
I don’t agree with making the union bled as much as Rauner but the State needs to take back a lot of the management rights it has given up and modify the personnel code to be able to attract a strong workforce. Plus because of Felon Blago and Quinn the merit comp system has nearly become extinct. We need to restore some balance and Rauner needs to get that done. Again eviscerating the union is too going too far but the status quo needs to change.
Comment by Hoping for Rational Thought Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:21 pm
=Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”
Employee: “Interesting. So, I want a raise and better benefits.”=
Tougher sell when your new superstars are being paid more than their predecessors by a large margin. I guess that runs a lot like the corporate world though, management continues to make big bucks, rank and file wages stay flat or lag behind inflation.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:22 pm
Anyone know how to find out what percentage of State worker are max out in their title?
Comment by WhoKnew Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:24 pm
@Orange Julius - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:57 am:
=facts - I’m afraid that 11% pay raise (and other benefit hikes) will not seem much like “moderation” to the general public when Rauner says he needs to to keep costs in line to pay down the state’s debt and avoid taking local funds. =
I think if Rauner would practice what he preaches with his staff you might be right. As it goes now, I think the general public may see a rich guy who wants to lower the standard of living of middle class workers while he pays his people top dollar.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:27 pm
=Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”
Employee: “Interesting. So, I want a raise and better benefits.” =
The employees might have a little more sympathy for management if we were charging customers full price for the services they purchase. Seriously…..management just cut prices (taxes).
Im not saying AFSCME’s salary demands are on point, but they aren’t crazy. If the economy will grow are 2-3% over the next 4 years, its not crazy to ask for a salary that keeps up with that growth.
Comment by Get a Job! Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:28 pm
@ Rod - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:13 pm:
=I am actually amazed given how many state workers read this blog that there is no commentary on the dues check off elimination being proposed by the Governor. You all do understand how the public sector will be rapidly defunded if that was to happen? =
did not speak to that issue specifically, but that is why I posted that Rauner is operating in the extreme because he is trying to decimate the union. AFCME has proposals that they know are throw away/bargain issues but this is different then what Rauner is trying to do.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:29 pm
===that is why I posted that Rauner is operating in the extreme===
Speaker? Is that you?
lol
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:31 pm
@ Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:31 pm:
“that is why I posted that Rauner is operating in the extreme”
=Speaker? Is that you?=
LOL, no it is not I. I am trying to show that the speaker has laid out the narrative and is forcing this whole thing to be fought on his terms. The more aggressive Rauner gets with MJM, the more MJM becomes the statesmen. Rauner is softball down the middle of the plate for MJM!
lol
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:38 pm
==Employer: “We’re losing money, the verge of bankruptcy, are going to have to cut back our services, and force our customers (taxpayers) to pay us more.”==
Just remember that we in Illinois have about the lowest individual state income tax rate of the 40-some states that have a state income tax. Compare our top rate to those of some of our nearby states top rate:
Illinois: 3.75%
Wisconsin: 7.65%
Iowa: 8.98%
Missouri: 6%
Kentucky: 6%
Minnesota: 9.85%
Indiana: 3.4%, but hard to compare because they add an average of 2% to one’s state tax bill for county taxes.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:38 pm
We need to all operate in moderation not the extreme. We need to all be reasonable so that the number one problem facing the state of Illinois - the budget deficit - can be fixed. All of these non budget items that Rauner is proposing make solving the number one problem of the state all the more difficult.
Rich, I think the more the speaker repeats this the more it will stick.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:43 pm
facts “I think if Rauner would practice what he preaches with his staff you might be right. As it goes now, I think the general public may see a rich guy who wants to lower the standard of living of middle class workers while he pays his people top dollar.”
You may be right - and I hope you are - but when this generation of taxpayers figures out that they will be asked to pay for current operations of government AND catch up on pensions and other debt, they may be more in the mood for shared sacrifice. I think Rauner is banking on this and it will be a part of his “middle class” message to this generation of taxpayers.
Comment by Orange Julius Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:46 pm
==there is no commentary on the dues check off elimination being proposed by the Governor==
Probably because it’s of no benefit to the state. Parking, United Way, health / childcare, deferred compensation, all are already accomplished with very little cost. So, I think the assumption is that provision can be safely ignored because it’s done solely to harm the union, providing no benefit whatsoever to the state.
Comment by AC Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:48 pm
“The Equalizer - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 11:52 am:
It’s called negotiations. Start high, meet (hopefully) in the middle. Doubt Rauner is looking to meet anywhere near the middle.”
The middle is 0% over 5 years. There ain’t no money.
Comment by Tone Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:52 pm
Just looking at the raises doesn’t tell the whole thing. Last few contracts have had raises but at least 50% of those raises were tied to increases in other areas. Either pention or insurance. So a 12% over 4 years is not really making it to the worker.
Besides this would be closer to a starting position. State workers don’t expect raises like this. It’s part of negotiations
Comment by Me Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:55 pm
I would venture that most taxpayers do not believe keeping state employees “up with inflation” by giving raises at this level is a priority, especially given the big difference between private and public retirement and health care benefits. The baked-in step increases and promotions appear to give adequate increases over time. If AFSCME goes on strike or is even locked-out while insisting on these raises, Joe Taxpayer will not be that upset.
Comment by Chad Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:59 pm
@Numbers add up ==If they are receiving step increases also==
Most state employees do not get a step increase after about 12 years of service because they top out by then.
Comment by Rusty618 Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:01 pm
- Hoping for Rational Thought - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:21 pm:
Ok Rauner, you have had your say. I know the private sector and the State Health care is not better.
Also, please be more specific on what you want done to the personnel code.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:05 pm
Anonymous - good point about the other states now let’s factor in Rauners income tax savings and let the bundler-in-chief tell teachers and state employees that they’re greedy.
Comment by Umm like Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:05 pm
An example of prognostication………The answer is, (El Mouldo, i.e.,Johnny Carson): “Yes.” The question is,(Ed McMahon): “Will there be a verified impasse?” Observer’s question: Then what will happen next? The point here is that quibbling over the numbers, they probably don’t matter as much as many may think, may be much less important than actually preparing for what seems to be inevitable. This might be a good time to stock the larder.
Comment by Keyser Soze Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:06 pm
The 11.5% raise divided over 4 years may have been AFSCME’s beginning request to use as a bargaining chip, but that is no longer true.
Comment by Mama Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:14 pm
Didn’t the Tribune just report that Illinois CEO’s had an average pay increase of 14% last year, much higher than the national average.
If the state were emulating the private sector, AFSCME would have to up its wage demand.
Comment by Truthteller Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:16 pm
- Mama - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:10 pm:
Mama, they are drive bys. Rauner robots and “ck”.
They know better but don’t care. They think that they deserve to be millionaires and billionaires but the rest of us deserve nothing.
They get satisfaction over hurting others. It is cristal clear from some of their comments.
As far as they are concerned, state workers should work for free.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:16 pm
-Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:05 pm:- Hoping for Rational Thought - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:21 pm:
Ok Rauner, you have had your say. I know the private sector and the State Health care is not better.Also, please be more specific on what you want done to the personnel code.–
Annonymous you may want to be careful with your generalizations. While state healthcare isn’t a whole lot better than private for professional possitions it is a lot better for a laborer or grounds maintenance position. Same with salary non proffesional positions typically do much better with the state vs. Private.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:21 pm
90% of staff in my division have at least a BS degree, as required be the job title…many have graduate degrees. I don’t know why so many think the state workforce is comprised of janitors, groundskeepers and barbers.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:45 pm
After eight years of watching their real income collapse and not recover, many Illinoisans are not in any mood to hear that their public servants aren’t hurting too.
Folks, if you are jealous of this - you need to have what most public servants have. A UNION. Fortunately public servants have constitutional rights protecting them from the mismanagement, incompetence, egos, and politics of political folks who would throw them under a bus for a dime. There is a reason you are protected and have rights as a civil servant. For hundreds of years, they were screwed with every administrative change by politicians who didn’t care about democracy, but about - politics. It was no way to run a government and it took a generation to implement the needed reforms. Then it took a generation for the US Supreme Court to honor those reforms. Then it took AFSCME to implement those reforms across governments with each group of civil servants voluntarily working to unionize each agency and department.
For where I work, it too massive mismanagement for years before civil servants got fed up. A lot of us weren’t pro-union until we saw how badly we were being screwed by our supervisors.
Unionizing is a good thing. It gives each member a power and a representation that forces the stuck-up political hacks to stop screwing those dedicated to serving the public and without political clout.
Unions are good.
BTW - that 11.5% is a negotiable amount. We just wish you had someone to help you make it to every paycheck too.
Unionize!
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:46 pm
This is the union’s answer to the ridiculous proposal that the state made. They might as well come out of the gate with ridiculous demands.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:49 pm
==Didn’t the Tribune just report that Illinois CEO’s had an average pay increase of 14% last year, much higher than the national average.
If the state were emulating the private sector, AFSCME would have to up its wage demand.==
If the State were emulating the private sector, and AFSCME hadn’t continuously supported elected officials who dug the hole we’re in, we would’ve been passing actual balanced budgets instead for years instead and we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in right now that will prevent raises that AFSCME
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:49 pm
I am still waiting on a final state payment from a 2011 COLA. So for some of us the last union/state agreement compensation package was less than has been stated.
Comment by cubird Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:06 pm
I wouldn’t hold the private sector as a role model for balanced budgets. We have too many examples of avarice for that.
Any AFSCME old-timers here? When Blagoyevich was in office, we had a contract up for renewal. I heard he hired out of state attorneys who were playing hard ball for months but then they suddenly folded. Any truth to this?
Comment by Emily Booth Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:10 pm
If the ILRB sides with the union this year, soon it will not. Governor appoints most of the members…
http://appointments.illinois.gov/appointmentsDetail.cfm?id=165
Comment by Stacked Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:10 pm
Usually at the end of negotiations the last thing discussed is wages, they’ll probably discuss it when they near the end, whenever that is (maybe Thanksgiving).
Comment by nadia Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:13 pm
- Mason born - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:21 pm:
Now you are generalizing
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:14 pm
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:14 pm:- Mason born - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:21 pm:
Now you are generalizing
Please enlighten me how I am generalizing? I simply pointed out that not every position in state government is underpaid or would be entitled to better healthcare in the private sector. Since the current AFSCME contract includes laborers, groundskeepers, and clericals it would seem to be a true statement.
Btw could ya make up a name I suspect it wasn’t the same anonymous at 1:49.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:23 pm
@
Orange Julius - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 12:46 pm:
=You may be right - and I hope you are - but when this generation of taxpayers figures out that they will be asked to pay for current operations of government AND catch up on pensions and other debt, they may be more in the mood for shared sacrifice. I think Rauner is banking on this and it will be a part of his “middle class” message to this generation of taxpayers. =
You may be correct — hope not — because the citizens of Illinois need to understand that they have received state services for years that they have not been properly taxed to pay for because the pension system was used to keep taxes artificially low. The citizens need to also understand that we have a structural deficit because our taxation system is not capturing the growth in the economy sufficiently to fund state services. If citizens don’t want more revenue, then they should call for Rauner to sign the spending bill the dems sent him and cut our way out. That sounds good, but is much easier said then done.
Comment by facts are stubborn things Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:29 pm
To Joe Taxpayer who will not be upset over a lockout or strike….unless you need a service from the state and there is no one to provide that service immediately. I know you think there is no service that you could possibly need. I think if it gets to a lockout or strike situation people will see that it is more than just no one around to process the welfare or unemployment benefits. Not to mention the trickle down effect it will have.
Comment by Clodhopper Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:45 pm
- Mason born - Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 1:21 pm:
“While state healthcare isn’t a whole lot better than private for professional possitions it is a lot better for a laborer or grounds maintenance position.”
It is not better then in private sector positions for professionals. It is actually worse in some cases. Also, there are many professional positions in State government as mentioned by other posters.
Finally, this should not be a race to the bottom.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 2:49 pm
@Stacked, The Governor may appoint new members, but the contract that will eventually go into effect will be for 4 years. When that contract expires I’d say it’s pretty likely, given that this is a blue state and given the poor start by the new administration, that we’ll have a new Governor. Remember, Rauner was elected mainly because Governor Quinn was unpopular, not because the public embraced Rauner’s ideas. He was really devoid of discussing specific policy during the campaign.
Comment by The Dude Abides Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:03 pm
===but the contract that will eventually go into effect will be for 4 years===
What if they do a one-year deal?
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:06 pm
Never said there weren’t profesdionals in state gov. Work with quite a few on projects. I also have friends who ate professionals with the state.
Not all workers are professional though. In fact I think IDOC is still the largest sub employer. Most of whom do not have degrees.
As for the race to the bottom bit I don’t remember calling for state workers to be indentured servants. I would have more respect for the governor had he actually proposed bringing wages inline with the private sector for ALL employees. I.e a cap and floor based on state average for the position. However they seem to have never heard of finesse. The state should pay reasonable wages and benefits keyword reasonable.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:06 pm
Ate=are
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:08 pm
Rauner is also demanding that Employees voluntarily accept Tier II Pension Benefits. That demand should be a clear picture that he wants a strike. In light of the Sup court ruling, he knows the union will never accept that.
Comment by Small Town Girl Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:12 pm
“had he actually proposed bringing wages inline with the private sector for ALL employees” Man, what a pay raise I’d get!
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:16 pm
Small town girl
Is that actually a position his team has brought to the table??
Skeptic
One reason why he won’t do it wouldn’t want to be gov that hikes metit comp pay.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:19 pm
Mason born, it was included on a union handout and verified by someone at the table.
Comment by Small Town Girl Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:20 pm
Small town girl
Thanks for the info. I really thought someone over there had a little sense. For one the union can’t negotiate that see ISC. Two how can u say a fair share who doesn’t get to vote on contract agreed to diminshment.
The yes men aren’t doing him any favors.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:32 pm
the length of a contract is whatever the parties agree to, though the GA may have passed legislation limiting contracts from going too far into a new guv’s administration
Comment by steve schnorf Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 3:42 pm
Mason born: Not only the merit comp employees, but then you have to wrangle with whatever “in line with private industry” means. I mean, how many Agricultural Land and Water Use Supervisors are there in private industry?
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:09 pm
For those playing at home, the title “Dentist II” tops out at $130,128/yr. How does that compare with private industry?
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:12 pm
===A 2.875% raise per year doesn’t sound that egregious.===
I fully agree that the AFSCME proposal is not out of line with pay increases given by other employers in the US. However, the State of Illinois is in deep financial trouble. I would look for a fight in the days ahead over the size of the wage increase.
===we in Illinois have about the lowest individual state income tax rate of the 40-some states that have a state income tax.===
While the state income tax rate is important, the total tax rate actually paid by each person is even more important. Many residents of Illinois complain about the high property taxes they pay and they pay one of the highest average sales tax rates (combined state and local) in the country. The net result is that even with a low income tax rate the total actual average rate for all taxes combined puts Illinois about number 13 in the entire nation.
Comment by Hit or Miss Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:13 pm
Skeptic
I would suggest degree requirements and experience. The real rub would be public safety. Still would bebetter than the current set up. Not only that at some point and tine the state will hit a supervisory crisis. Who wants to moce up and watch the people you supervise steadily make more or hire on to the state for significantly less than your peers.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:16 pm
As to dues checkoff: How many of the other demands will AFSCME agree to in order to get this? If the gov agrees to 11.5% raises plus no health care increase, will AFSCME agree to a contract with no dues checkoff? Of course not. AFSCME will give up their first born for this clause. This is the only fight in the contract. Watch.
Comment by papa2008 Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:41 pm
Papa2008
True AFSCME would rather give anything but that. I wonder though if their members got everything else but thay would they vote to strike or gladly take it?
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:48 pm
“watch the people you supervise steadily make more” and yet people wonder why all those PSAs were put in the Union.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:50 pm
Take it and run. True believers will sign up for automatic bank account deduction. The rest will ignore the repeated AFSCME dunning letters for payment. AFSCME’s, or any unions, worst nightmare.
Comment by papa2008 Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:52 pm
Sleptic
That is part of the problem now. I lnow several exemplerary psa’s who refuse to move up because of the merit comp nightmare. Without good managers the state is heading for a new cliff.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:54 pm
Rich I suppose it’s possible that they could do a shorter contract this time but given the difficulty they are going through now does anyone really want to do this again next year?
Comment by The Dude Abides Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 4:57 pm
If the gov’s negotiators had any cajones, they would agree to all of AFSCME’s other demands, insist on no dues checkoff, and present the proposal to the media. Then sit back and watch AFSCME implode.
Comment by papa2008 Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 5:39 pm
A 1 year deal? When Rauner gets to appoint someone to the ILRB? And then 2 more each of the following 2 years? No way.
Comment by DHSJim Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 5:51 pm
To the anti-Union posters in here - please. No worker anywhere union or not would agree to a 20% increase in insurance fees without something to offset it. What fool would agree to that?
Comment by Politix Wednesday, Jun 24, 15 @ 5:57 pm