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* From himself…
— Bruce Rauner (@GovRauner) November 17, 2016
* From the left…
The chorus grows for @GovRauner to drop his agenda and #justpassabudget (via: @EricZorn) —> https://t.co/esiO48Lj2L pic.twitter.com/yXtR4GLE8W
— IL Working Together (@IllinoisWorking) November 18, 2016
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:17 am
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Rauner’s own tweet is really the ball game that @illinoisworking fails to see.
Rauner is not concerned about a budget. Does not care. Two years, no want of a budget.
The tweet about dropping everything to get a budget is why Rich grabbing these tweets and highlighting both sides is so important.
If the state collapse, Rauner does not care.
Now K-12, Rauner will pay attention to for political sake, but real people hurting, meh, The Ounce will get some money somehow.
Until groups highlight Rauner’s lack of wave of a budget because of pre-conditions that have no 60 and 30 otherwise, Rauner will continue to destroy the state, because he can.
It’s the feature, not the bug.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:28 am
Strange analogy. People like rockets.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:29 am
Rauner’s call for a balanced budget rings hollow when he has yet to present one.
Comment by AlfondoGonz Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:31 am
===rings hollow when he has yet to present one===
Read what he wrote. He believes it’s impossible without his reforms. While absolutely maddening, he’s being consistent.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:33 am
He liked rocket ship spending when the pension funds were paying GTCR rocket ship money.
Comment by Handle Bar Mustache Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:33 am
So how did Quinn reduce the backlog of bills by $5.6 billion if budgets weren’t balanced? Shouldn’t the backlog have continued to rise?
If Rauner really believed he could dramatically impact the “economy” via legislation in Springfield, you’d have to throw a net over him. That’s megalomania.
But he’s doing a bit, masquerading a political agenda as “economics.” He doesn’t even try to substantiate or put meat on his claims. And Illinois media — and Democrats — allow him to get away with it.
Meanwhile, squeeze the beast — reneging on contracts, throwing people out of work, stiffing Illinois vendors of billions — has done real damage to the economy and the state’s fiscal position.
And the media and Democrats don’t call him on that, either.
He must be laughing himself silly in Rome, participating in Cupich’s elevation, knowing that he stiffed Catholic Charities out of millions on contracts he signed.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:36 am
Ya know, it’s sad - I was going to post something snarky about how rockets tested better in focus groups than pythons, but then I realized that any momentum for action, either way, is going to be driven by simple statements and graphics like the Governor’s using. We all know it’a more complex than that, but legislators are going to need cover, and the way to provide it is through some simple narrative like a pithy quote (no matter how inaccurate) and a graphic. Maybe it’s time for a graphic novel? (And I’m not suggesting that just because I’m jealous of the success of “Dad’s Home State.”)
Comment by Johnny Tractor Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:40 am
Like many who voted for him, Rauner sees no way of righting the state’s fiscal ship by simply raising taxes enough to continue decades-old spending habits. It’s unsustainalble.
I could have missed it, but I still have not seen why the state can’t make part of the budget deal re-figuring the “pay-off” date when pensions are to be fully funded. Couldn’t that date be extended if a level payment plan with no ballooning later was put into place? Seems to me a large portion of Illinois’ pension trouble is centered on that date and an agreement that was made when the state’s fiscal situation was not as dire. Innocently asking here. I honestly don’t understand why this hasn’t been part of the discussion.
Comment by LessAnon? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:41 am
As if the Eric Zorn’s “chorus” is singing a new tune.
He is reading from the same sheet of music as the Speaker and all the other defenders of the failed status quo
Each issue should get a separate and fair hearing in the General Assembly?
Hard to that when bills the Speaker doesn’t approve of (any Rauner reform proposal) can’t make it out of the rules committee
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:45 am
Rich-
Then I’d say present the budget. With the proposed reforms. He’s so convinced that his agenda will work, than by all means, show us the basis for that thinking. Show us what needs to be done rather than telling us. Let people make informed decisions rather than adopting our President Elect’s preferred proposal of, “Buh-lieve me.”
Comment by AlfondoGonz Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:46 am
Who quotes themselves in a tweet?
Comment by Juice Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:46 am
Both Rauner and Madigan have been remarkably consistent for what, two years now?
Rauner: Reform and budget together.
Madigan: Budget and reform are separate issues.
I wish they’d listen to Cullerton, who seems to favor some face-saving reforms for Rauner, together with budget.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:48 am
@Juice: “Who quotes themselves in a tweet?”
Just your average working class millionaire trying to save his state by destroying it.
Comment by Blue Bayou Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:52 am
I’d put that rocket on a billboard.
I’d change the text to “Rauner made $188 million last year while everyone else suffers.”
Then I would add a cartoon characture of him dancing in the money.
Comment by Trolling Troll Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:53 am
===He is reading from the same sheet of music as the Speaker===
Hence: Impasse.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:54 am
The lack of a budget and not enough revenue is already resulting in consequences. However, it’s the long term consequences that no ones’ paying attention to. That’s always the problem. Point: our pension issues are related to pension holidays from decades ago. No one paid attention then. no one is now. Too busy with Twitter, Facebook, Internet gossip and video games.
Comment by Thoughts Matter Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 11:59 am
@AlfondoGonz: Second that. Exactly.
He doesn’t want to own his plan. Owning stuff is hard when you made your bones tearing stuff apart.
Comment by Blue Bayou Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:03 pm
–I wish they’d listen to Cullerton, who seems to favor some face-saving reforms for Rauner, together with budget.–
Really? Policy changes, for which the governor cannot provide any substantive rationale as to their benefits, need to be enacted into law so one man can “save face” before doing his Constitutionally mandated job? Before beginning to mitigate the damage that has been caused since he took office?
That’s some sense of entitlement.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:04 pm
to -Wordlsinger
Talk to a budget person from any caucus’s staff, they’ll be happy to explain how that $5.6b number isn’t real.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:07 pm
To the second tweet, if you understand that Rauner and a whole lot of other people want reforms (yes I understand some poll at like 80%, some are the opposite) and you know that Madigan refuses to move on anything at all when there’s a budget at stake, then why would you ever believe Madigan will do anything when there is no “hostage”?
So if Rauner gives now, the whole mess and destruction since he took office is for no long term gains.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:10 pm
How much more rocket fuel wll his reforms provide? Keep hammering him on that question.
Comment by Liberty Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:11 pm
@LessAnon? What you are describing is a re-amoritization of the debt. It has been talked about often, just not by Rauner. It would cost more in the long run, butthe trade off is some relief in terms of the size of the payment and consistency of payment.
Rauner does not talk about it because he would like to walk away from the pension debt. And he is not alone. I suspect many on both sides of the aisle would do that if they could get away with it.
=The Ounce will get some money somehow.=
There is a process that is about to take place that could significantly expand the role of “Ounce” and dramatically increase their revenue at the expense of many smaller programs around the state. This is due to requirement changes for the Early Childhood Grant which is back out for competitive application for the first time in many years.And Ounce is positioned to maximize because of the way the specs were shaped. Most people may not care but it very interesting to see the evolution just in the last two years.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:11 pm
I don’t expect anything to get done. For Madigan, it’s all about the narrative for 2018.
Comment by Thomas Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:13 pm
=still have not seen why the state can’t make part of the budget deal re-figuring the “pay-off” when pensions are to be fully funded=
CTBA more than once has recommended re-amortizing the debt. I have always liked that idea.
Comment by illinoised Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:13 pm
m:
–to -Wordlsinger
Talk to a budget person from any caucus’s staff, they’ll be happy to explain how that $5.6b number isn’t real.–
What’s stopping you? Don’t hide your light under a bushel.
I’m going by the comptroller’s quarterly reports on the backlog of bills numbers. Are those not real?
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:15 pm
And seriously, where is the pressure on the dems? They could give on redistricting, term limits, maybe workers comp. The first two poll off the charts (i.e. the people of this state really want them, and lawmakers would be doing their jobs to enact them). The third item is still very popular. You do that, you take away any momentum and PR strength Rauner has. He has to give at that point.
But they won’t do that. Shoot, just pass the first two. It would make it very hard for the R’s to keep up the case for the budget impasse for anything else.
The reality here is that this whole thing would be over if the GA simply does what the people of this state want them to do anyway.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:16 pm
== I honestly don’t understand why this hasn’t been part of the discussion. ==
The short version is, for flat payments, it would require the current pension funding payments to increase by $1.5B - $2B over the current amount. If you can’t pay for everything now, where are you going to find that money under the current revenue structure?
Comment by RNUG Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:17 pm
Bold print sublinlinagul message”?..balanced budgets…spending…It won’t happen..”
Comment by Rabid Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:19 pm
===They could give on redistricting, term limits, maybe workers comp.===
Not one has a measurable budgetary savings.
So holding hostage a budget for things having no budgetary impact, especially now…
… only points to Rauner hurting people, and not wanting anything that resembles a budgetary help… but are political agenda items.
Thus, the impasse
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:20 pm
-word
Backlog goes down every year when tax payments come in. Goes back up later… etc. A lot of it had nothing to do with anything he did, and it’s all about the timing of when you count the beginning and end numbers. The backlog is not a static amount.
I’m not a budget staffer, but when Quinn was bragging about that, everyone on both sides of the aisle was rolling their eyes and had their own numbers.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:20 pm
The State had a surplus before the tax hike expired. It was paying all operating expenses had had extra money to pay the backlog of bills.
The out of control spending appeared under Rauner after he let the tax rate go down. Economic growth also slowed as he reduced small businesses that worked for the state and have now gone under.
Comment by Ghost Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:21 pm
The reform agenda is a Trojan hoarse for busting the union. Yes, some further workers comp reform is probably a good idea and done correctly property tax relief is a good thing. I think many people think term limits are fine and who doesn’t think it is a good idea to draw districts fairly. All those non budget items (they are non budget items even if they in a macro way effect the budget) should be dealt with through elections and our republic system and not hold the budget hostage to get them.
Comment by facts are stubborn things. Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:22 pm
- m -
Then cite a number that is “real”.
If you can’t, then refuting all other numbers without a cite to an actual number seems a bit… “disingenuous”… at best.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:23 pm
=CTBA more than once has recommended re-amortizing the debt.==
Well, it directly benefits their benefactors. Future generations? Not so much.
Comment by City Zen Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:23 pm
-ow
That’s fine but does not address my point. Is the “why” more important than the “how”?
His motives don’t affect the outcome.
Pass three bills, two of which are insanely popular with voters, the third still wins a majority.
Then you get a budget.
If you have a way out, and it involves doing what you’re sent here to do, and you refuse… You are saying that not having term limits, redistricting reform and workers comp reform are more important than all the destruction from the impasse.
Put it to a vote with the public, the solution would win every time.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:24 pm
M, that’s a ridiculous “explanation” that ignores the actual history of the backlog of bills.
You can go to the comptroller’s website and read the quarterly reports over time.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:24 pm
Thanks, JS Mill and illinoised. Appreciate the info.
Comment by LessAnon? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:25 pm
Or - m -…
Rauner as governor should get in front of microphones ad cameras with 17-20 Democrats with these reforms and tout that with the ability to get 60 and 30.
Why won’t Rauner?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:26 pm
and RNUG.
Comment by LessAnon? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:27 pm
===You are saying that not having term limits, redistricting reform and workers comp reform are more important than all the destruction from the impasse.===
Nah.
None of those are budgetary.
Getting the budget is the “easy” part.
Rauner holding it hostage as you frame even it tat above IS ignoring the job Rauner was sent to do.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:28 pm
@RNUG
If that is the case, then payments at that level could be worked into any deal for the inevitable increased revenue, a.k.a. tax increase. I think it’s pretty easy to explain and a fairly easy sell, considering the mess we’re in.
Comment by LessAnon? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:33 pm
word: as ridiculous as it may sound, yes.
The alternate strategy (one followed for two years by Madigan and advocated by you) is “You’ll get nothing and like it!” while the social safety net disappears.
Would a deal of some workers comp “reform” and some redistricting for a budget that restores some funding of social services be enough for Rauner? I don’t know. But it seems to me that we would be better off overall with such a deal, and it is worth a shot.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:34 pm
Robert the Bruce gets it.
Was it Cloonen the other day who said the dems need more of a plan than just saying no to Rauner?
The writing is on the wall. Saying no is not a solution.
What’s AFSCME’s chant right now? Don’t dictate, negotiate.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:40 pm
What happens when you pay a ransom? You encourage more kidnapping. The Dems give Rauner his anti-worker WC “reforms” now, and Rauner will fund the government for the rest of the fiscal year. What will he want next year to sign a budget? What about the next?
No. If the Democrats give in to this now, they can expect it to be repeated over and over.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:50 pm
Someone lay this out for me…
The pre-conditioned “non-pre-conditioned” requirements Rauner must have, they need 60 and 30.
Now, any budget to get passed also has a 100% must. Revenue. Not a give, Revenue is required.
So… Rauner is requiring Democrats to vote on, let’s say, WC, and maybe even property tax relief that’s really gutting organized labor…
… now Democrats need to vote for the Rauner Tax, that Rauner will spend tens of millions of dollars in double-crossing Democrats, because Rauner has said, “words don’t mean anything, if it’s said in ads, grow up”…
I’m trying to find trust in governing where Rauner will require horrendous votes taken by Democrats for a budget not even being discussed, but needs, arguably the largest tax increase in Illinois history, and Rauner wants Democrats to eat it.
… eat it after the pre-conditions.
How is 60 and 30 found there?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:50 pm
===What will he want next year to sign a budget?===
Except if there’s a deal then that also means a tax hike. So, instead of an ever-growing unpayable bill backlog, tons of cash will be piling up ready to go out the door. That puts far more pressure on Rauner than it does the Dems.
Y’all are just not thinking straight.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:56 pm
Rauner owes the public a succinct explanation of why the human suffering that is a direct result of this budget impasse is acceptable. I’d also like to know if he’s been through anything comparable to the pain he has caused others in the last year and a half.
Comment by Albany Park Patriot Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:58 pm
Robert, that’s absurd.
If Pat Quinn had held the budget hostage unless he got a bump in the minimum wage and home-rule for concealed-carry, would the resulting damage have been a legitimate exercise of power for him to “save face?”
Of course it wouldn’t. There are nearly 13 million people in this state — and you’re worried about one guy “saving face?”
Rauner sure has some of the people, all of the time (including the media), buying the snake oil that blowing off his Constitutionally mandated duty and sabotaging core responsibilities of the state in pursuit of his personal agenda is legitimate.
An agenda that he can’t articulate any substantive benefits beyond chatbot points, after nearly two years.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 12:59 pm
- Albany Park Patriot -
That won’t happen. Rauner has enough money to insulate himself with “Democrat” and “Madigan” crutches. There will not be any holding Rauner to anything.
Sadly.
That needed to be started 2 years ago. Rauner will continue to hold the news cycles until further notice.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:04 pm
I like Rauner but that is social media malpractice right there.
Comment by Try again Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:04 pm
Anti worker WC reforms?
Nothing is more anti-worker than having the company you work for go out of business or move to a more business friendly state.
Stagnant wages are directly tied to higher health insurance and other fixed costs like rising workers comp and property taxes.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:04 pm
===tons of cash will be piling up ready to go out the door. That puts far more pressure on Rauner than it does the Dems.===
I’m certain I’m not thinking straight, and I’m mad as heck about what’s happening in this state. With his A/V power, you don’t think Rauner can keep this game going for as long as he’s in office?
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:06 pm
===property taxes===
It’s never been about property taxes.
It’s always been about the ending prevailing wage and curtailing collective bargaining.
The alleged “sham” votes and subsequent Rauner responses as Governor made that quite clear.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:09 pm
Is it just me, or is Rauner’s argument a logical fallacy?
Balancing a budget has nothing to do with the GDP growth of the state. It’s about revenue and spending.
A budget can be balanced by increasing revenue or decreasing spending.
If the economy grows, or doesn’t grow, it just means one or the other has to be adjusted.
These folks still don’t know what they’re doing, or they’re just lying.
Besides, our per capita GDP has increased and so has our GDP has grown, not as fast as the national GDP, but that might be due to our Governor’s decision to hamstring our public institutions and the effect that could have on the economy.
Comment by Anon Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:12 pm
–Stagnant wages are directly tied to higher health insurance and other fixed costs like rising workers comp and property taxes.–\
Income stagnation has been a phenomenon across the Western world for the last 40 years.
But you’re going to tame myriad global forces and solve it down in Springfield. You just can’t articulate how, using the tools of economics.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:13 pm
It’s always been about the ending prevailing wage and curtailing collective bargaining.
The excesses in pensions and work rules have driven up property taxes.
Without the ability for local governments to determine their expenditures, there is no mechanism to freeze property taxes.
You can’t freeze property taxes if Springfield is mandating what they have to spend money on.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:14 pm
-ow
The dems can “eat” the tax increase (which they would keep targets off of) whether it’s Rauner or a dem in the mansion.
That doesn’t change. I don’t think anyone is worried about going home and telling their constituents they voted for redistricting and term limits.
And the majority of the resistance on workers comp has far more to do with trial lawyers than unions. And I don’t think the unions are going to jump ship over that 1 vote.
They don’t need 60 and 30 dems alone. Plus you’ve got some lame ducks…
It’s not that hard. Dems have a path out of this.
3 popular bills. Pass them. Get budget. Go on offensive.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:16 pm
===3 popular bills. Pass them. Get budget. Go on offensive===
Or the Governor can find 17-20 Democrats on his own, like other Governors have done to pass their agendas, then leverage those 17-20 Democrats to get what the Governor wants.
That’s how governing works. Rauner is co-equal, the legislature “just passing” things to appease a CEO… that’s not how it works.
===3 popular bills. Pass them. Get budget.===
So DON’T pass these 3, no budget?
I’m confused, I thought there were no pre-conditions?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:19 pm
If the economy grows more tax revenue is generated and a growing economy means there is greater demand for labor which raises wages. Supply and Demand 101
Lower unemployment translates into lower spending on social services for working age people. Another savings for government.
Nothing lowers average wages more than losing high paying manufacturing jobs to other nearby states.
Wordslinger are you trying to argue Illinois does not compete with Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa and Missouri as well as the rest of the county for jobs?
Comment by Lucky Pierre Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:21 pm
Rauner could drop the whole reforms part of his argument. Just say the constitution requires a balanced budget. You want to spend $40B, fund it.
Comment by thechampaignlife Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:25 pm
===The dems can “eat” the tax increase (which they would keep targets off of) whether it’s Rauner or a dem in the mansion.===
With Rauner, I’m “guessing” there would need to be 46 if not all 51 Raunerites “Green” for the Rauner Tax.
So, when Rauner has 46-51 Raunerites “Green” for the Rauner Tax, that would be huge leverage for the Governor”…
“I guarantee 47 GOP House votes for a raising in Revenue… ”
Why won’t Rauner say that? Rauner will sign the Rauner Tax but whoa, saying the Raunerites will carry the weight…
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:28 pm
They already have term limits. They can be voted out at any election.
Comment by DuPage Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:29 pm
===With his A/V power, you don’t think Rauner can keep this game going for as long as he’s in office?===
He specifically wants to avoid line item and reduction vetoes because then he gets the blame for them - especially if there’s plenty of money in the bank.
He has a reelection to run. If he raises taxes and then cuts popular spending programs when money is available to fund them, you don’t think he gets the blame?
C’mon, man.
Cut a deal.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:33 pm
===It’s always been about the ending prevailing wage and curtailing collective bargaining.
The excesses in pensions and work rules have driven up property taxes===
This Just In: that thinking and truth won’t get 60 and 30.
So, now what? Move off the labor part, get 60 and 30
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:36 pm
-ow
==I’m confused, I thought there were no pre-conditions?==
Keep up. That’s their path out. Pass those. Gov loses all leverage. Run the Durkin bills, rewrite them and put dems as sponsors. Either way, doesn’t matter.
Pass them and you take every ounce of wind out of his sails.
Maybe I should reorder it for you.
Pass 3 hugely popular bills. Go on offensive. Get budget.
Better for you that way? It’s the same deal. Dems have a way out of this.
There are far worse things a lawmaker can do than to pass bills their constituents want them to pass.
You want to put the blame on the governor? I mean actually put the blame on him? Make the public believe it?
Pass 3 bills.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:40 pm
The absolute critical element Rauner is missing is his budget to actually to pencil to paper, “figuratively”, and show what the “Rauner Tax” will pay for once it’s passed.
Pension obligation? Higher Ed? Social Services? Judicial Reform?
Why won’t Rauner now put those “dollars” out there as a packaged budget now?
Why are reforms required first, and only first, before anyone sees what this Rauner budget would look like, with a Rauner Tax?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:41 pm
===He has a reelection to run===
So what? He’s prepared to burn more than $50 million to run. With that kind of money, he can create his own reality. He can A/V money from various lines and claim he’s going to “pay down the backlog of bills” that Madigan ran up.
I just saw how he campaigns, and reality has no bearing on his messaging. If the Democrats trade anything for Rauner to do his job, then he will continue to do hold hostages every year. Count on it.
Rauner should admit the obvious: he has to raise taxes to pass a budget. Instead, he is using that as leverage and lying about his intentions, or moving the goal posts. He has never specified exactly what he wants, and the letter Durkin sent you is another example. Rauner is too smart to state clearly what it is he wants. He knows it will be rejected, and the more specific he is, the more opposition he will attract.
He has no mandate for the “reforms” he is seeking. He hasn’t made them clear, and he hasn’t made a case for them.
Every sentient adult in this state knows that taxes have to go up. Rauner decided to use this fact as leverage for an agenda that gives back the gains made over decades by working men and women, by consumers, etc, and he is threatening the most vulnerable members of our society to get in a back room deal what he can’t win at the ballot box.
No way. Let’s see you budget Governor, and tell us how you plan to pay for it. After that, we can talk about other issues.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:45 pm
==I’m confused, I thought there were no pre-conditions?==
Keep up. That’s their path out. Pass those.–
Those are pre-conditions. That’s what “pre-conditions” means.
Apparently, making up nonsense about financial reporting when it comes to the backlog of bills and nonsense about the definition of words are the foundations of your positions.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:48 pm
===Run the Durkin bills, rewrite them and put dems as sponsors. Either way, doesn’t matter.===
Maybe you need to tell Leader Durkin to “keep up”.
Rich has a whole post about “no pre-conditions”
If you’d like, you can hit the link in the box at the top of the page.
===Maybe I should reorder it for you. Pass 3 hugely popular bills. Go on offensive. Get budget===
“Hugely” really doesn’t change the order, just changes the lipstick.
===You want to put the blame on the governor? I mean actually put the blame on him? Make the public believe it?===
That’s on the Democrats, not me. So far that hasn’t worked too good, so selling the “you get to blame” a man that last year had nearly $190 million in income and committed to $100 million to his own re-elect, the Democrats need to decide how they want to tread, not me.
Rauner created a whole movie, marketed a whole move against Madigan. What would make ANY Democrat think right now they can “keep up” with Rauner’s vertical integration after 2016?
Pre-conditions are just that. The WC could be done. Maybe another. The governor can declare victory with his $100 million at any time, even make an after school special about it too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:50 pm
===With that kind of money, he can create his own reality===
Yep. And it’s a whole lot easier if y’all keep being the party of “No.”
The Republicans did it at the national level and it worked. But the Democratic base cares about getting stuff done. So, you depress your own turnout and you alienate independents.
Good luck with that.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:51 pm
If only there existed a news source, with great reporting, that could sort out fact from fiction, that could help provide a North star against attempts to fool people. If only.
I’d rather lose and maintain my principles than sell them out and win. I realize that just makes me a principled loser but I can sleep at night.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 1:59 pm
Rauner’s not wrong. The state requires fundamental reform. He has said he’d sign onto a tax increase along with such reforms, even just a couple of them (heck, he all but begged Dems to choose two or three for themselves). In the absence of reform, the Dems, who have both chambers and formerly had the Governor’s office, can go it alone on a tax hike/budget of their choosing … if they can stay in lock-step. They couldn’t and can’t so that ain’t going anywhere. In the meantime, the Gov will used earned and paid media to pound on the case for reform. Deal with it.
For his part, Madigan just wants Reps. on a tax increase. That’s it. He wants shared blame for taxes going up. But let’s be clear, he doesn’t want any reforms — not because they are non-budgetary or because they won’t help fix Illinois — but because he doesn’t want a lick of his power reduced. This is all about Madigan staying in power. If the state continues (that’s right, the descent started LONG before Rauner) to crumble … so what? Madigan does not care! He must, to his mind, defeat Rauner.
And that’s the real problem. Both Rauner and Madigan believe they are doing better than the other and believes he can wait it out.
Thus, the PR war will continue because the recent election settled nothing. The combatants are dug in for the long haul.
Comment by Deft Wing Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:02 pm
===He has said he’d sign onto a tax increase along with such reforms===
A required element isn’t a give. Ever. Your premise is off at Jump Street.
I stopped with that ridiculousness.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:05 pm
DW, you can repeat “reform” a million times, but unless you can identify them and back them up with some scholarship as to their benefits beyond that of a chatbot program, it’s just a kid’s game.
But if all you care about is the “p.r.”, then it’s just a fun brodown for the Frat Boy crowd and the guy buying the kegs.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:08 pm
Rich gets it =Yep. And it’s a whole lot easier if y’all keep being the party of “No.”=
Deft gets it =But let’s be clear, he doesn’t want any reforms — not because they are non-budgetary or because they won’t help fix Illinois — but because he doesn’t want a lick of his power reduced.=
Not sure what the rest of you are missing. Dems have a path.
I’ll say it again, reordered again for OW, Pass 3 bills. Go on offensive. Get budget. Be better off in 2018.
They don’t seem to want a way out. Get off this board, go talk to people out there. That’s what they think, whether it’s really true or not doesn’t matter.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:13 pm
===That’s what they think, whether it’s really true or not doesn’t matter.===
Yes, it does. It matters a great deal and your cavalier dismissal of the greatest threat to the great American Experiment in self-governance is duly noted.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:15 pm
and Word, apparently you’re not following what I said well. I said Rauner should lay it on 3 bills, that’s my idea, but he hasn’t done that.
I said the Dems have a way out. One more time: Pass 3 bills, go on offensive, get budget.
It’s a strategy for them, not a precondition.
As for your backlog numbers, again, I’m not a budget staffer, nor do I care about some small side argument enough to go looking for any of that. Believe your number, I don’t care.
There’s a bigger issue here. This isn’t a one-sided stalemate no matter how much the dems want to make it look that way.
They have a way to get out and help themselves along the way. Either way at some point they’re voting for a tax hike, they can do it with just their members if they win the mansion in 2018, or they can do it with r’s now. One of those will happen. Is it worth continuing the destruction for 2 more years in the hope that maybe they get to all vote for a tax hike with a dem gov?
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:19 pm
-47th
People will vote according to what they believe. Those votes have consequences. Things like reality and the truth are what you perceive them to be.
Figure out how to make the voters see your truth or watch the other guys do what they want because they won the election.
Not totally sure what you’re referencing as the greatest threat. Money? Political ads?
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:24 pm
Two knuckleheaded replies, less elegant than I had imagined from two of the most “productive” souls here.
Ask a real person — if you know any — how they feel about term limits and fair maps. Both poll off the chart. Those are Rauner’s now. Then ask your friends about property taxes– and watch how mad they get. Another poll buster now owned by Rauner. And before you say it — I don’t care about the lack of financial connectivity to the budget.
IT. Doesn’t. Matter.
Procurement reform. Worker’s Comp. reform. Reduction in number of gov’t units/consolidation. Muni BK. PENSION reform.
The above offend no real persons … and I didn’t even touch local empowerment zones and/or anything having to do with labor (which I have learned is sacrosanct here). The “scholarship” on these are pretty plain and in some instances beyond real debate … except to hardened partisans stuck to the get-along/go-along status quo.
Real people know state governemnt can and must be improved. After all, there is a reason why Illinois objectively lags in every good comparable and is first in nearly every bad category versus the rest of the country.
If you can’t admit Illinois is in trouble and needs reform, maybe it’s you … and not every one of your neighbors.
Comment by Deft Wing Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:25 pm
m- Roll your eyes all you want. That just gives you a way to avoid seeing reality.
Quinn substantially cut the backlog of overdue bills, time frame to time frame, apples-to-apples. His operating budgets, (except his last one), produced enough to pay down old accounts payable. He also paid the full ramp on accrued pension debt.
It’s obviously not “impossible” to produce a balanced budget. Rauner’s argument is that it is not healthy for Illinois for the long term, to settle for only a balanced budget now.
Comment by walker Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:27 pm
And hey, I’ll even go one further for the dems. GO back to the old strategy from 15. Run your own version of bills to make R’s vote no and the gov veto.
Except, wait, that won’t work. Madigan could do that for his version of property tax freeze or comp, but nothing will get to the floor that ever even resembles term limits. They actually got to vote on their own version of redistricting this year and what happened? R’s voted for it. Can’t make that mistake again.
Where do term limits and redistricting poll again? Politics won’t let them pass what could likely be the two most popular ideas you could possibly draft in bills.
Yep, only Rauner is playing politics. You’re right.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:29 pm
===I’ll say it again, reordered again for OW, Pass 3 bills. Go on offensive. Get budget.===
I guess I’m confused again…
What budget do we “get”.
This phantom budget… unless I missed something, what exactly is IN it? Why pass three bills to get to negotiate for something?
Hmm… Wait…
Why pass 3 bills to get to negotiate something. Again, that’s sounds an awful lot like pre-conditions for something no one knows what exactly it is.
Plus, Rauner proved, he’s hoing after anyone anyway. Rauner is a rascal, and The Ounce is fine for Diana. You’re asking for faith in a document Rauner refuses to even put his name to, tax increase and cuts notwithstanding.
So… what I guess I don’t get, granted I’m blinded by movies, fake newspapers, fake radio, think tanks and $100 million ready to double-cross any good faith like the Good Friday Massacre cuts… if these votes are SO important, why not show this budget that’s at the end of the rainbow?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:34 pm
There is an easy way to enact term limits. Have everyone vote in favor of taxing retirement income. No one will win re-election. Dems get their added revenue. Rauner gets a turnaround agenda item. No one is left to celebrate.
Comment by City Zen Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:37 pm
“Things like reality and the truth are what you perceive them to be.” No, that is perception.
“Ask a real person — if you know any. . .”
“The above offend no real persons”
So you are the arbiter of “real persons” now? How does one get that job? For what it’s worth, I am a real person and worker’s comp reform that hurts the very people it is designed to protect offends me. Muni BK that allows governments to walk away from willfully accrued debt offends me. Attack all you want but you do not get to speak for all “real people”.
Isn’t it time for the weekend song yet please?????
Comment by when will this end?!?!? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:39 pm
===They don’t seem to want a way out. Get off this board, go talk to people out there. That’s what they think, whether it’s really true or not doesn’t matter===
60 and 30.
That’s what matters. Otherwise Rauner, by fiat, would’ve gotten his Turnaround Agenda.
Rauner will spend $100 million against his own opponent and every Democrat opposing Raunerites.
And you want Democrats to vote against themselves, twice, for a phantom budget?
Ya think the whole new negotiator by the Speaker for a budget was accidental?
There’s NO public budget. Trust after this cycle? Dunno where anyone has any.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:45 pm
–If the economy grows more tax revenue is generated and a growing economy means there is greater demand for labor which raises wages. Supply and Demand 101–
Now show your economic projections — assumptions and supporting data — on the governor’s agenda that can be put to the test, like the big kids do. A chatbot program spewing words doesn’t cut it.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:50 pm
-when
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.” - Albert Einstein
You’re right, Yes, that’s perception. That’s your view of reality.
I think reality is that it’s a long walk to Colorado. Never tried, never been there. I can look at maps. I can google it. So I perceive it to be very far away. That’s my perception and thus that is what I believe the reality is. But everyone could be lying to me.
When I need to take days off for travel time, I’m going to assume my perception of the time it takes to get there is right.
People don’t act on reality. They act on their perception of it.
Sorry for my shorthand way of describing it.
People vote based on their perception of reality.
So as far as I’m concerned, since they will act that way, their perception is their reality.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:51 pm
“But everyone could be lying to me.” Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?! Are you really saying that if you think it, Colorado is just next door? Reality is that 2 + 2 = 4. You might feel that it is pretty close to 5 but nothing is going to make it true, not even Einstein.
Reality matters.
Comment by when will this end?!?!? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:57 pm
-ow
Does anyone disagree that at some point we are getting a tax hike?
So… In 2019, put every dem on it, including targets, as well as a budget with massive cuts.
The big checks will be written again in 2020. That is the new reality. You want every dem on the hook for the cuts and taxes. Plus you get at least a decent chunk of the blame for the destruction from 2014 to 2018. Go for it. Great long term strategy.
Or maybe you try and work something out. I know it will be hard to face those trial lawyers and tell them you did what the state actually needed and reformed workers comp. But I think I would feel better doing that than telling all those people affected by the impasse that you refused to help them, because you cared more about those lawyers in their big houses with fancy european cars.
And this is all assuming they have the choice because they could actually win the mansion in 2018. Big IF, regardless of what this crowd thinks.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 2:59 pm
-when
No, you completely missed it. I’m just saying I’m not all-knowing. I haven’t been to Colorado. I don’t know how far it is. I know how far everyone in the universe says it is, thus my perception is that google and everyone else is right. I navigate places often based on google maps. I don’t necessarily know where something is, but I assume google is usually right. I assume the answer it gives me is reality.
Not sure where you went off track. The point is that you don’t actually know what reality is, you simply have your perception of it.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 3:05 pm
and I am saying Colorado is a quantifiable distance from any given point. That distance is measurable in fixed (not just perception) terms such as inches and feet. Many people have the perception that Obama wants to take all the guns but that is not reality. Some people may think the moon is made of cheese, but it isn’t and never will be. Perception is not reality.
Comment by when will this end?!?!? Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 3:10 pm
===I know it will be hard to face those trial lawyers and tell them you did what the state actually needed and reformed workers comp.===
It’ll be just as hard when you tell your insurance industry pals and the doctors that trimming their fat WC fees is what Illinois actually needed. Why do you assume it’s only trial lawyers that oppose WC reform?
Oh, right. That’s your perception. Lol.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 3:14 pm
===Does anyone disagree that at some point we are getting a tax hike?===
Rauner does. #TaxHikeMike… go on YouTube, there’s loads of ads Rauner ran this last cycle on the tax hike. According to Rauner, only Madigan wants one.
Perception - Reality. I’ll use your argument here, lol
===So… In 2019, put every dem on it, including targets, as well as a budget with massive cuts===
Rauner is going to win in 2018, that’s my bet so far.
===I know it will be hard to face those trial lawyers and tell them you did what the state actually needed and reformed workers comp.===
You’re asking Dems this? For a phantom budget? That’s fun.
What is Higher Ed getting? Social Services? Pensions?
This is ridiculous. You’re worried for Dems facing trial lawyers as the may vote against them… for what?
===But I think I would feel better doing that than telling all those people affected by the impasse that you refused to help them, because you cared more about those lawyers in their big houses with fancy european cars.===
Diana and Bruce Rauner spent $46+ million to ruin Social Services by funding Raunerites. Then again, Rauner will double-cross. Maybe.
===And this is all assuming they have the choice because they could actually win the mansion in 2018.===
Rauner is the odds-on favorite to win.
Trolling false odds isn’t helping, like the ILGOP’s Facebook post about Bradley and Forby…
Not the way to get 60 and 30 there…
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 3:16 pm
M, you’re ridiculous. There are objective truths and there are subjective perceptions. They aren’t the same.
Your argument, “that you can’t know what reality is, only your perception of it,” is, on it’s face, a claim that knowledge is not possible.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 3:37 pm
-word and 47th
Until 1938, the coelacanth was extinct. Scientific fact. Until someone found one. Everyone perceived the reality of that(if they heard of the fish).
Reality was the fish had been doing fine for 300 million plus years. Careful what you determine to be an objective truth.
Measure twice, cut once. Why? Because sometimes the objective truth of the measurement was merely a subjective perception that was false.
Ever measured the distance to CO? I haven’t. Is the distance to the city center? The interstate exit? Is google starting me 50 feet from my house? Is your measuring device miscalibrated? You have a subjective perception.
We assume to know what the objective truth is based on our subjective perceptions.
I’ve seen analysis of enough bills where I could see where both sides’ numbers were “correct.”
I act according to my subjective perception. So do you, so does everyone else. That’s how they vote as well. Ever heard of Trump?
Not sure what everyone is actually arguing about unless it is to just argue.
You want me to change my words next time?
Here you go: “Your knowledge of reality and the truth are what you perceive them to be”
Did someone not understand it before but it’s now clear? Did it completely change what I was saying? It was probably pretty clear every time. But hey, it’s Friday afternoon, let’s fight over semantics of word choice.
As OW likes to say, does that get to 30 and 60? Didn’t think so. Now maybe you can get back to convincing the people of this state there’s nothing the dems can do. Maybe convince the dem lawmakers themselves as well that they’re not being obstructionists with no real path out.
Whether you want to deal in reality, objective truth, or subjective perception… Good luck with that.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 4:01 pm
-m-, I should have started as early as you apparently did, but I needed to get some work done this afternoon.
Tell me then, why do you “perceive” trial lawyers being more unhappy than doctors or insurance companies by WC reform? If it’s done right, they should all be howling. Unless Rauner has a specific WC plan in mind that he hasn’t shared with anyone yet.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 4:09 pm
Yes, in fact I believe the language was out there at one point. Causation is the big sticking point, always has been. I believe venue shopping was another. Trial lawyers are putting the money behind the fight. Maybe ask them what the big issue is? I thought that was a very well accepted objective truth here on this board.
If done, right, lots of haircuts to go around as Quinn would say. THat’s true. But trial lawyers have the money and the clout to really do something. Change them to neutral and a bill passes.
Comment by m Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 4:13 pm
If Democrats agree to pre-conditions…
What does this phantom budget look like.
With real numbers. With the real Rauner Tax and the real understanding that 47+ Raunerite House votes will be “Green”
What’s so hard about showing the budget?
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 4:24 pm
How about a bill mandating insurance companies pass along the savings and doctors accept something a lot closer to Medicaid rates for services? Seems fair to me. Give me that, and I’ll meet you half way on causation.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Nov 18, 16 @ 4:25 pm