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* Doug Finke takes a look at this passage on a state website designed to inform employees about what happens if there’s an AFSCME strike…
Assuming the union has authorized a strike; such striking employees are not subject to being fired for striking. The Illinois Public Labor Relations Act gives most public employees the right to strike and prohibits retaliation against employees who elect to withhold their services. However, replacement workers can be hired to maintain services during a strike, and if the strike is over economic issues such as wages or health insurance, such replacement workers may be permanent. In such circumstances, striking workers would have preferential rights to vacancies, but only if such vacancies occur.
* Finke…
The administration will argue an AFSCME strike is over economic issues such as wages and health insurance costs. AFSCME, though, says a strike, should one occur, would be over the administration’s refusal to continue bargaining on a new contract, which would put it under unfair labor practices by the administration.
“I don’t see how there can be any question over the fact that we’re striking over the fact (Rauner) won’t come back to the bargaining table. He won’t negotiate,” [AFSCME deputy director Michael Newman] said.
[Michael LeRoy, a labor law expert at the U of I in Urbana] said it would ultimately be up to the courts to decide if a strike was over economic issues or unfair labor practices.
“All of these judgments are made after the fact,” he said. “What happens if you are unemployed for five years while the courts are figuring this out?”
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:07 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Summer jobs for high school and college kids?
Someone has to answer the phone.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:10 am
Sending an offer that would agree to overtime after 40 hours would help AFSCME’s case.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:17 am
Impasses was reached - this means negotiations were conducted and failed.
How could anyone argue this isn’t over wages and insurance? Good luck.
Comment by Dr X Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:17 am
And the money to pay them comes from…?
Comment by Budget Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:19 am
It does no good to answer the phone if you don’t have answers. Believe me, the day of the receptionist and even secretary is long gone. Automated systems mean calls go directly to the staff member who can answer questions. I’d be horrified to see a high school or college kid try to perform my former job.
So, Anonymous - such a unique nick, there - while there might be a handful of “answer the phone”-type jobs, you aren’t going to get far with kids and State career positions.
Comment by RIJ Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:22 am
Obtuse doesn’t even begin to describe you Robert. For the last time, the overtime issue is not over the amount of hours worked and or paid, it is about the implementation of said overtime. Rauner walked away from the table without further explanation on the implementation.
Comment by redraider Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:23 am
===Impasses was reached===
Said the ILRB. An Appellate judge recently granted AFSCME an indefinite stay until the ILRB’s decision can be evaluated. The judge’s statement indicated he feels pretty confident AFSCME has a good case for the impasse ruling to be overturned. Not over yet Dr X.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:26 am
Unemployment is under 5% in Sangamon county (don’t take my word for it. Go to IDES). So who is going to leave a job where you receive a regular paycheck in order to work for min wage and wait 6 - 9 months to receive a paycheck?
Comment by Rogue Roni Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:29 am
This is why the courts are important and could decide this and hopefully avert a strike.
Gov. Crisis wants a battle, so the state can be broken further. He has failed miserably in prying apart Democratic GA suppoters of social services from unions. Too bad this failure doesn’t move him, so we can begin fixing the state.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:31 am
redraider, nice use of the word “obtuse” to avoid the site’s screening of personal insults.
For the last time gave me a chuckle- you really believe 37.5 won’t be part of news stories if a strike happens?
Comment by Robert the Bruce Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:33 am
===Impasses was reached===
Here’s my offer, take it or leave it is not a negotiation.
Comment by Gruntled University Employee Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:34 am
Some people are saying that state agencies currently have high turnover rates with temps because they are treated badly, and underpaid. Sad.
Good luck with that new state job ya’ll
Comment by napalmsandwich Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:38 am
How is Rauner going to pay the replacements now that Mendoza can now legally use the funds he’s been squirreling away? I can’t see anyone working for free for months and months on end. Rauner has been losing every court battle.
Comment by Ratso Rizzo Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:42 am
“All of these judgments are made after the fact,” he said. “What happens if you are unemployed for five years while the courts are figuring this out?”
Show of hands, who thought of Cosmo Kramer going back to the bagel shop? No Bagel..No bagel.No Bagel..
Comment by Echo The Bunnyman Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:44 am
Couple this with no strike fund and I don’t see that many of the those who voted for the strike actually walking out.
Despite what Rauner and most AFSCME leaders think, the majority of state workers are rational people, and the risk of striking is going to be too high for most.
Comment by Swift Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:47 am
Robert, you are missing the point intentionally. There is no one to give concessions TO. There is no one to negotiate WITH. The Gov walked away. I’m sure AFSMCE would love to get rid of the PR nightmare, but they cannot do so outside of negotiations.
Comment by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:49 am
I am interested in the truth getting out about the negotiations. I am not responsible for the news cycle and the lead story. That is for other people. Unlike yourself, I actually look further into the story.AFSCME could certainly message better and I am finally doing my part now, but it is not my job to write the lead
Comment by redraider Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:49 am
Given the recent injunction, and the accompanying statement ‘ reasonable likelihood that AFSCME will in the impasse not valid case.’ .. isn’t a strike now several months away? Won’t Rauner and the union be forced to at least stare across the table again for awhile in a pretense of further negotiations? Meanwhile the present contract overtime, outsourcing, and health insurance rates continue- just without raises? If so, works for me.
Comment by Thoughts Matter Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:52 am
‘Will win in the impasse not reached ‘
Comment by Thoughts Matter Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 9:54 am
Actually Gruntled University Employee, take it or leave it is negotiations. You may not like it, but that is an offer.
Comment by Piece of Work Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:04 am
Dr X, See page 18 of the 19 page decision. Rauner’s change to permit outsourcing with no burden to show cost effectiveness and unilaterally ending bumping rights (incentivizing the targeting of older Tier 1 employees and giving them no due process) are specifically pointed out by the judges.
Comment by kitty Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:05 am
“Negotiation” in the eyes of the employees appears to be keep talking until you give us what we want.
I see a PATCO type of event in the future.
Hope cooler heads prevail.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:07 am
I would think the better argument would be that Rauner wants (and plans on) unquestioned privatizing which would effectively eliminate the union in time. It doesn’t seem bargaining in good faith would allow part of the bargain to be that one side has to effectively sign it’s own death certificate. Really, I think it would make sense to any judge or labor board that management can’t say we are at impasse because the union won’t agree to a contract the lets us dismantle the union. That is not economic; that is unfair labor practice.
Comment by notbuyingit Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:32 am
“Impasses was reached - this means negotiations were conducted and failed.
How could anyone argue this isn’t over wages and insurance? Good luck.”
The court said last week that one side can’t unilaterally declare an impasse. Both sides must agree that an impasse exists. AFSCME has never agreed that an impasse exists, and has stated its willingness to negotiate and compromise. It’s case that the strike is over ULP is pretty strong.
Comment by Nick Name Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:41 am
Break the deal face the wheel - could come up economic or ULP - only the court can decide.
Comment by Texas Red Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:43 am
Ok - good info. Isn’t outsourcin’ mainly economic (wages and healthinsurance?). And AFSCME has but out lots of info about how devastatin’ the contract is for wages and insurance. It is not over yet, but it doesn’t look good.
Has anyone asked the Gov, how many applicants will be able to jump right in and do accounting and take care of mentally impaired people?
This really shows the gov’s attitude towards workers - anyone can do it, everyone is expendable. Better sell the iphone.
Comment by Dr X Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:51 am
“Actually Gruntled University Employee, take it or leave it is negotiations.”
Wrong!
The definition of negotiate is “to arrange or settle by discussion and mutual agreement.”
The appropriate word for take it or leave it is dictate, as in dictator.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 10:57 am
The amount of armchair lawyerin’ and labor lawin’ going on ’round these parts is staggering. How will this all turn out? The only correct answer: it depends. Save the prognostication. Another correct answer: a strike will be net bad for the union.
Comment by A State Employee Guy Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:06 am
Cook County Commoner. Do you anti Union folks touch yourself when you say Patco. You so want to see people fired. Lose their jobs , destroy families that I wonder whether the thought is physically arousing to you. How would you feel if day in and day out someone wanted you to lose your job. Lose your ability to provide for your family. Regardless of how well you do your job. Every week day on this blog. That’s not to blame Rich. It’s a sad statement.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:11 am
=Robert, you are missing the point intentionally. There is no one to give concessions TO.=
AFSCME gave a bunch of concessions to the public, remember? You all were screaming that proved there was no impasse. The OT issue wasn’t included.
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:12 am
What would happen if it were tied up in the courts for 5 years? AFSCME employees would find other jobs, and 5 years after they win the case, they would get full back pay, credit, vacation, sick time. It could very easily top $500,000 per employee.
If I were them? I would gladly deliver pizzas for that kind of future payout.
Comment by Union Man Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:15 am
Don’t feed it
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:20 am
There are 2 Roberts, it seems some of you haven’t noticed.
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:22 am
@Union Man Not exactly. You’d have to subtract off the amount you earned and benefits from delivering pizzas from that $500K, assuming that’s a real number and not something you just made up. Oh and also that assumes people accustomed to a nice state sal/bennies can afford to spin dough for half a decade.
Comment by A State Employee Guy Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:23 am
That also assumes the courts agree the strike wasn’t over economic issues, in which case you get nothing. The courts saying there isn’t an impasse seems the more likely hope for AFSCME.
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:28 am
People who see their government as a burger stand, see government employees as unskilled over-paid burger flippers.
Rauner hates government. He hates who works in government. He sees anyone who is not him as replaceable fodder. Anyone thinking that government workers are easily replaceable are supremely ignorant.
Look at our politicians. You think they know how government works? Look at Bruce Rauner. You think he knows what government employees do for a living?
After a decade of frozen hiring practices, we have state employees with more experience than similar employees in other states. Comparing wages fails to take into consideration the VALUE of state employees. Anyone thinking that Illinois state employees are expendable aren’t being honest.
For over 17 years, Illinois has been led by political weasels. What has kept Illinois together has been the experienced state employees ignoring the weasels and getting the job done.
Rauner is the junk man who strips a Mercedes and thinks it is similar to the Fiat he stripped. Bruce Rauner sees NO VALUE in anything he thinks he can strip. He is immoral and sees people as expendable things to strip.
Don’t follow this man’s immoral thinking.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:36 am
Grandson, let’s say I list my house for $200K and you present an offer for $180K. I say my house is worth $200K and that is what I want and you tell me your offer is $180K. I say take it or leave it. That was negotiating. Negotiations are not giving you what you want, that would be succumbing to you.
You can call it negotiations but that doesn’t make it so.
Comment by Piece of Work Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:36 am
Anyone besides myself that remember Blago’s firing of (I think) 19 Ryan holdovers? It took a while, but they were all made whole … and they weren’t union employees either.
This isn’t a PATCO situation where the Air Traffic Controllers were forbidden to strike. The only way a PATCO situation could exist at state level would be if the Corrections officers or State Police officers all walked out on strike.
AFSCME has a legal right to strike. It may not be smart to do so at this time, but legally the union is on firm ground.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:39 am
Robert the 1rst is trolling and gas lighting.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:40 am
==Honey Bear==
“You so want to see people fired”
Wrong, many of us simply want the state to get its fiscal house in order. controlling labor/pension costs is a big part of that.
Comment by Texas Red Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:42 am
Seats- Rauners 4th appellate can still deny our appeal.
Any time
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:43 am
A strike for less pay (wage freeze and modestly higher premiums) is considered an economic strike?
Comment by Content Disabled Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:53 am
Me pointing out that AFSCME has indeed made concessions since the impasse, back in January, is trolling?
Simple Simon was incorrect when he said;
=I’m sure AFSMCE would love to get rid of the PR nightmare, but they cannot do so outside of negotiations=
They won’t, and they could have. But you know this. The last time you called me names was on this topic.
https://capitolfax.com/2017/03/01/how-the-states-other-union-contracts-compare-to-the-afscme-situation/#comments
Comment by Robert the 1st Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 11:58 am
Can the State hire replacement workers full-time WITHOUT having a pension benefit -or- a 401k style pension option?
Can the replacement workers themselves form a union? If so - IN for drama.
Comment by BK Bro Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:03 pm
No email from JT spinning the decision into something it isn’t? Almost looks like a mature acceptance of defeat.
Comment by A Non Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:06 pm
Bk bro yes. He can hire whomever for whatever. And yes they could try to organize but that would take forever to pull off.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:08 pm
But Robert, the union can offer til they are blue in the face, but if there is no one to receive and accept an offer, then nothing goes into effect. You are negotiating against yourself, which we all know is a hopeless position. Maybe you get some PR points, but not much. If Rauner comes back to the table in truth, I would negotiate those benefits away quickly as low hanging fruit, but not for free.
Comment by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:13 pm
RNUG, I remember that. One of the 35 is an old friend. He was asked by the late Chris Kelly to put the event together and found out while he was standing there that Rod had fired him. He was fortunate enough to be of retirement age.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:18 pm
-AA-,
Pretty sure he is a mutual friend.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:22 pm
If AFSCME strikes, is there any chance that, by hook or crook, the strike can be judged as unlawful? If so, strikers can fired, correct? Can pension benefits be refused for those ‘fired’ workers?
Comment by Wading in... Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:40 pm
An actual labor law question:
Both sides have rejected the other’s last offer. If negotiations are not at an impasse, then logic would seem to dictate that at least side must have a new offer.
Does AFSCME have a new offer? If not, isn’t that an impasse?
When and what was AFSMCE’s last offer?
Comment by gopower Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:44 pm
Thanks, Robert the 1st, for pointing out we’re different people. And I believe we usually disagree…I’m not even in agreement that you were the first Robert here.
To the post: if Rauner continues to refuse to return to the bargaining table despite the court’s ruling, the “unfair labor practice” strike argument seems like an easy one to make.
A simple “We’re available to bargain any day in the month of March” statement by AFSCME might make this even easier. (no snark-this may have happened and I missed it, but I just checked AFSCME’s web site and didn’t see something like this there).
Good luck to all involved.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:49 pm
Under the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act there are several conditions that must be met for a legal strike. Economic vs ULP is not part of the act. AFSCME would be out on a legal strike under ILPLRA.
Comment by Steve Polite Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 12:57 pm
Gopower- Afscme never has issued a LBF. Rauner walked away last Jamuary while we were still negotiating. We did offer a “framework” of where we could start up again. No raises, a bit more on healthcare and back to the table for the rest. Did you miss that?
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 1:07 pm
I foresee lots of retirements. Staff won’t be replaced and anyone left will have to fend for themselves. Thank you gov.
Comment by new hire Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 1:34 pm
AA- it was the Dir of CMS Hoffman who said it. And another director with an Indian name from public health.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 1:47 pm
Robert the Bruce, that’s pretty funny! I choose this because you already were the Bruce. Never thought that it might be taken I was the first Robert to post here.
Comment by Robert the 2nd Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 2:05 pm
@Steve you sure about that?
Comment by A State Employee Guy Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 2:18 pm
Yes, I am sure. I downloaded a copy (PDF) of the act and have read through it. Do a google search. It’s easy to find. I did because I wanted to know for myself. One caveat I am not a lawyer nor a labor expert.
Comment by Steve Polite Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 3:36 pm
I had a secretary for the agency that I worked for tell me that a man was fired from the Sec. of State when Ryan was there when he brought his daughter to work on Bring your kids to Work Day. It was covered in the Decatur and Champaign papers but not in Springfield.
Comment by Ginhouse Tommy Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 4:04 pm
Honeybear … free advice. Typing on a blog all day everyday while you tell us how important state workers are sorta rebukes your argument. Ya think?
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 4:40 pm
Anonymous, how do you know she is not on benefit time?
Comment by tired of politics Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 4:47 pm
Thanks for the advice but you are incorrect. I know my words and thoughts mean something to a few people. State workers do wonders everyday. I help people every day. You can’t take that away from me.
Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 4:52 pm
===… free advice.===
You’re charging too much.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 4:52 pm
I often wonder how much better off we all we would be collectively, as a State, if voters in 2002 could have distinguished the difference between Jim Ryan and George Ryan. The election of Blago was the beginning of the end for IL
Comment by Cardsfan Wednesday, Mar 8, 17 @ 7:39 pm