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* Gov. Rauner yesterday morning when pressed to define the Charlottesville incident as terrorism…
Rauner went on to quibble with the notion of assigning a definition.
“That’s all a question of definition. What doesn’t matter is definitions,” Rauner said.
* Gov. Rauner speaking yesterday afternoon after he had admitted via press release that it was an act of terror…
“The definition of terrorism matters,” Rauner told reporters.
* The Sun-Times’ front page was brutal today…
* Mark Brown…
Thomas A. Durkin, a Chicago defense attorney who teaches national security law at Loyola University, told me Rauner was right the first time.
In Illinois, he noted, we define terrorist as “any person who engages or is about to engage in a terrorist act with the intent to intimidate or coerce a significant portion of a civilian population.”
And the Charlottesville incident wasn’t that? A Nazi uses a tactic right out of the ISIS playbook to kill somebody and wound several more who oppose his vile viewpoints and that doesn’t fall under the definition of terrorism?
More…
We already have plenty of laws to deal harshly with someone who maliciously drives a vehicle into a crowd.
That sounds a lot like the argument against the concept of hate crime statutes. Also, an act of terrorism which results in death is an automatic natural life prison term here.
* Yesterday, a commenter who is also a local Springfield reporter offered up this definition…
Terrorism is when someone with an agenda attacks, without provocation, unsuspecting people who have assembled for some purpose, or purposes, completely unrelated to the attacker’s agenda.
Um, no. If that was the case, then the Charlie Hebdo massacre wouldn’t have been classified as terrorism.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:27 am
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As I understand it, the issue goes to whether it was premeditated or not. Intent is important here. It is interesting that the media has attacked Trump for jumping to conclusions about incidents of terror here and abroad and yet demands specific immediate conclusions about this incident. It is being investigated and right now the assailant has been charged with second degree murder. You can’t have it both ways, people.
Comment by anonymous Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:33 am
Its an act of terror when its purpose is to make people afraid to assemble or voice opinions out of fear of being attacked.
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:35 am
Rauner is doing his best to avoid controversy, but this might hurt him politically, as it shows him to be a total politician and not someone willing to take important stands. It would be ironic that he focused so much on Illinois that he loses next year.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:37 am
Media has raised concerns when violence occured by the actors were unknown.
Actor here was known. they also raised concnerd about leaking confidential intelligence during an investigation, not with the label Trump applied to the act. these are not comprosble examples
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:37 am
There is a reality that Rauner and or others that feel the need to have a book or legal definition be the beginning to denounce what happened in Virginia, they need to rethink.
There is no place for WWII German fanatics, white supremacists, hate groups and those marching, promoting, and in this case, hurting others in the name of “purity”, hate, and any variation of white nationalism.
If things aren’t that clear for you… that clear that you unequivocally denounce without any reservation… you should get called out… as Rauner did.
Oswego Willy
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:45 am
Oh please stop, Bruce. If a Sikh man had driven his car into people, you’d be screaming he should be deported and you would have opened up the Brown People Internment Camps in Illinois.
Comment by Mike Cirrincione Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:46 am
===As I understand it, the issue goes to whether it was premeditated or not.===
It’s amazing how many experts on terrorism definition this incident has spawned. If a Muslim person happened to be driving by a crowd of Jewish worshipers and decided to drive into them, would any of you hesitate for two seconds before declaring it terrorism?
THAT is the problem people are getting at by emphasizing that this was an act of terrorism. There’s a segment of the population that seems to be believe terrorism can only be committed by brown people. In my example above and in the real-life incident in which a self-described Nazi drives a car into protesters, it is an act of terrorism.
Comment by PJ Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:47 am
“The definition of terrorism matters,” Rauner told reporters.
Sure does… it shouldn’t have taken the IPIes over 2 hours to find the definition in the Illinois Statutes.
(l) “Terrorist act” or “act of terrorism” means: (1) any act that is intended to cause or create a risk and does cause or create a risk of death or great bodily harm to one or more persons;
https://tinyurl.com/l8czh8o
Comment by Anon221 Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 10:48 am
Can we go back to SB1? You know, something that actually matters rather than semantics.
Comment by Shemp Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:03 am
So, when the same governor Rauner unilaterally declared that the State of Illinois would not accept Syrian refugees after the attacks in Paris in November of 2016, was he concerned about the nuances of the legal system? Did he seek out experts in foreign policy and it’s impact on state Governments?
He didn’t seem to care. States don’t tell the Federal Government how things work, but that didn’t matter. Now that same Governor is super concerned about the legal definition of terrorism?
Spare me.
Comment by illini97 Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:07 am
Not to be a Rauner enabler, I think he was truly perplexed why he is being asked about VA when he’s in the midst of a school funding fight. The problem is, he’s had a bad couple of weeks with the Fox News interview and the SB1 debacle, and an immediate and forceful condemnation would have done wonders. Couple that with an announcement he’s forming some sort of hate group task force, and he gets a win for the day.
Instead we get people going to the extreme and assuming Rauner is supporting the white nationalists all the while he is signing a bill that deals with the expulsion of mostly minority children from preschool. I suspect his staff are constantly telling him to what not to say, and after 2 years he has been indoctrinated and won’t actually go off script. Looking at the Vinicky & Baier interviews, I see the same thing, stick to the scripts and hit the key talking points, and then struggle when pressed for a real answer. If he has any hope for 2018, IPI staffers need to let him off the chain, not Trump off the chain, but let him be 2014 Rauner again.
Comment by Swift Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:10 am
==Can we go back to SB1? You know, something that actually matters rather than semantics.==
Agreed. This is gotcha politics trying to link Trump to white racism and Rauner to Trump. That’s all it is.
Comment by CrazyHorse Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:12 am
Illini97 -
The worst part about his Syrian refugee “ban” was that he had to know it was complete theater. The state of Illinois has been accepting Syrian refugees without pause since that day, because he has literally no say in the process. The fact that he never brought it up again tells you that he thought he’d go along with the cool kids and ride the anti-Muslim wave, then quietly sweep it back under the rug.
Comment by PJ Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:13 am
I don’t care what Rauner says, or doesn’t say about events occuring outside Illinois. He shouldn’t have answered questions about interstate issues not concerning Illinois.
He should have recognized a political gotcha moment, but didn’t.
Rauner is an Illinois failure. No need to turn him into a national one.
He can’t govern. Why ask him about something a president say or didn’t say, or an incident 1000 miles from here?
Too much of this gotcha stuff may backfire into support for Rauner. That’ll be disasterous.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:15 am
===Agreed. This is gotcha politics trying to link Trump to white racism and Rauner to Trump.===
Rauner did that himself. No one did it but but Bruce.
It’s important to know if your governor won’t denounce hatred and call it by its name.
- Swift -
No one forced Rauner to run and become the governor upon election.
If Rauner isn’t up to the task, it’s being exposed now.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:17 am
==There is no place for WWII German fanatics, white supremacists, hate groups and those marching, promoting…==
Unfortunately, it is legal to belong to the KKK, wear a swastika armband and belong to some of these hate groups. 1st amendment of the constitution.
I originally didn’t think this event was terrorism. I think that word has been re-calibrated. And all pols need to be on board. The car attack was a domestic terrorist incident.
Comment by Mr B. Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:21 am
I think the governor has had a terrible time since he hired BTIA, with the back-to-back debacles of the Fox News interview and this.
Rauner can’t or won’t fly without a net, repeating talking points over and over, and the BTIA PR safety net is full of holes.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:22 am
GoM, messaging - the publicized reason for the purge - has become a disaster.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:27 am
But OW without demagoguery how would the wealthy people distract us from all the money they are siphoning away from the middle class….. dont look behind the gold curtain, your problems are due to union workers and foreigners…. excuse me while I cut worker oay and raise the CEOs pay another 40%….
Comment by Ghost Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:59 am
I wonder why they are afraid to use the term that describes it precisely: “Radical Right-Wing Extremists”? They just won’t say it.
Comment by Union Man Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 12:13 pm
Rauner has definitely shown that he’s not a leader. Leaders don’t try to weasel out of every controversy and act as if they’re only concerned for their own professional well-being. This terrorism incident is a great example.
“messaging - the publicized reason for the purge - has become a disaster”
It’s poetic justice. He was more interested in messaging than governing, now he has a lousy PR team. The IPI keeps attacking state workers as overpaid, now BTIA is terrible on the taxpayers’ dime.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 12:34 pm
Illinois has an extremely broad definition of “terrorist act”. Whether one can be charged with terrorism does go to intent:
” (a) A person commits the offense of terrorism when, with the intent to intimidate or coerce a significant portion of a civilian population”
Without that condition, a person could commit an “act of terrorism” by driving their vehicle through a corn or bean field, or going cow tipping (”"Terrorist act” or “act of terrorism” means:…(5) any act that causes substantial damage to or destruction of livestock or to crops or a series of 2 or more acts committed in furtherance of a single intention, scheme, or design which, in the aggregate, causes substantial damage to or destruction of livestock or crops;”
Now, all that being said, this didn’t happen in Illinois, and IMHO definitions used for a response to questions such as that, politically, should fall into the realm of “you know it when you see it”. And this clearly was.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 12:42 pm
The prosecutor who cannot prove terrorist intent for a guy involved in a white supremacist rally who runs down anti white supremacist protestors is a really bad lawyer and should find a new line of work that requires the brain power of flipping hamburgers
Comment by ArchPundit Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 12:51 pm
Rauner seems endlessly caught. He clearly wants to go full Scott Walker and hints in that direction but then stops halfway and because of his political inexperience/ineptitude can’t square the circle. The correct response to Charlottesville would’ve been the Winnetka response which is that it’s terrorism/wrong and by the way there are still several Confederate monuments in Illinois and in the land of lincoln we’re going to take them down.
An appearance with the Illinois Holocaust Museum wouldn’t have been a terrible idea either.
Comment by Shore Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 1:14 pm
If an islamic extremist mowed down protesters, does anyone think Rauner would be so evasive on whether or not it was “terrorism”? Of course not. Why is white supremacist terrorism different?
Comment by Emanuel Collective Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 1:16 pm
There is not problem with Sikh terrorism Mike C
Both you and former Bears GM Jerry Angelo are very confused
Comment by Lucky Pierre Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 1:49 pm
If only history could offer a clue as to whether white supremacists will use murder and terror to advance their objectives.
It’s a mystery.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 1:59 pm
Whether one agrees with Rauner’s eventual acknowledgment of the attack’s nature or agrees with his initial hesitation, who can deny that the man fell squarely on his face?
I used to think he wasn’t up to the job of being governor, now he’s not even up to the task of being a public figure.
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 2:01 pm
Everyone can debate whether or not this act was terrorism. Until he’s charged with terrorism (either in VA or by the feds), he legally is accused of murder.
“It’s important to know if your governor won’t denounce hatred and call it by its name.” Pretty sure he did. He called it horrible.
Comment by ste_with_av_en Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 2:03 pm
I more than likely womt ne voting for Rauner next go around. But this will mot affect my decision one iota.
Comment by blue dog dem Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 2:05 pm
==Why is white supremacist terrorism different?==
Why was the Black Nationalist murder of 5 police officers in Dallas not considered terrorism or called out as such?
Comment by CrazyHorse Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 2:34 pm
JB is burning up twitter this afternoon and he should probably cool his jets.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 4:33 pm
Like it or not hatred does not mean terrorism.
Comment by Whoelse Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 4:36 pm
4:36, hatred may not equal terrorism, but you can’t have terrorism without it.
Rauner shouldn’t have tried to split the baby. Call it terrorism and maybe be corrected later-make it clear there is no place for these jerks in Illinois, unequivocally, and be done with it.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 4:49 pm
AA, excellent comment.
Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 5:24 pm
Crazy Horse–
That’s a terrible case of What-about-ism you have there.
Comment by DeputyRegistrar Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 7:44 pm
Arthur Anderson I actually disagree with you. I would say that terrorist simply have a different point of view on whatever the issue may be and they simply have no problem using extreme measures. Hate does not have to go with terrorism. However they do often keep the same address.
Comment by Whoelse Tuesday, Aug 15, 17 @ 11:40 pm