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* Anybody who has paid any attention for the past few years has heard Gov. Bruce Rauner talk about his Swedish grandparents. He particularly idolized his grandfather…
“My best friend growing up was my grandfather on my mom’s side. Swedish immigrant. Didn’t speak much English. Lived in a double wide trailer in a cornfield outside Whitewater, Wisconsin. Dairy farmer. Taught me to milk cows. Taught me about huntin’ and fishin.’ Taught me about hard work and giving back.”
I also idolized my maternal grandfather and spent countless glorious days on his farm. Rauner and I spoke briefly about this shared history a while ago. My paternal grandmother lived in a trailer for a time, so we had that in common, too.
* Politifact…
It was of little surprise then that, as he appeared with immigrant activists to sign a controversial law putting limits on policing of the undocumented, Rauner retold his own favorite story of immigrants — the Ericksons from Sweden.
“My grandparents were proud immigrants to the United States of America, here to Illinois in the late 1800s,” Rauner said. “My grandparents did not speak English when they were young.”
Variations of the Erickson story have been staples of Rauner appearances for years. But the key word here is “variations,” because the governor has not always been consistent in the telling.
* NBC 5…
“He kept on talking about his immigrant grandfather, immigrant from Sweden who could barely speak English, sometimes he would say he didn’t speak English. He also said his grandmother was like that,” said the BGA’s Bob Secter, who authored the piece in partnership with Politfact. “So we went back and looked at the census records to find out about it and they just aren’t immigrants. They were born in Wisconsin.”
In a YouTube compilation on the topic, there was only one time (of several instances in which he discussed his immigrant relatives) that Rauner, when asked by a reporter, clarified that he was speaking about his great-grandparents.
* The video…
* Back to Politifact…
Records from U.S. Censuses taken between 1910 and 1940, the latest year publicly available, clearly show that both of Rauner’s maternal grandparents were born in Wisconsin — Clarence Erickson in 1901 and Viola Erickson (nee Wedin) in 1900. In other words, neither of them were immigrants.
What’s more, the census shows that Viola’s mother — Rauner’s great-grandmother — was also born in Wisconsin. Viola’s father, while born in Sweden, emigrated to the U.S. at age 6 in 1868. As for Clarence, the census describes him as speaking English and having a seventh grade education. In the 1940 count, his profession was listed as “buttermaker.” […]
We have no reason to doubt that Rauner’s grandparents meant the world to him. But the Census plainly refutes his claim that they were immigrants. What’s more, both couldn’t have come to the U.S. in the late 1800s because they weren’t even born until the early 1900s — in Wisconsin, not Sweden. Rauner’s assertion in August that his grandparents immigrated to Illinois is yet another inaccuracy.
Since we don’t have a time machine, we can’t say for certain what language was spoken in the Erickson and Wedin childhood homes. But to the extent that Rauner implies the Ericksons’ facility with English was limited, Census reports refute that notion as well.
Topping all that is the acknowledgement by Rauner himself in his 2014 Tribune interview that his grandparents were not immigrants. Still, he continued to repeat the claim on many occasions.
Census records and Rauner’s own admission show that this statement has no credibility. That is why it earns our lowest possible rating, Pants On Fire.
Frankly, this revelation has disturbed me more than anything else I’ve ever read or learned about Gov. Rauner. To lie about his own grandfather, a man he clearly loved, to score political points is just beyond the pale.
And if he won’t tell the truth about that, how can anybody trust him on anything else?
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:39 am
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I’m with you. Also weird to lie about something that can so easily be proven incorrect. The odd MJM soup story he keeps repeating is different. No one in IL politics believes that story, but no one can prove what did or did not occur in a private conversation.
Comment by Centenial Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:44 am
This was my reaction, too, Rich. I can’t claim to have as close of a relationship to my grandfather, but I can never imagine making stuff up about him. It’s so bizarre to me that I can’t even articulate why it’s bizarre. I don’t know how to explain why you shouldn’t lie about your grandpa.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:46 am
=== And if he won’t tell the truth about that, how can anybody trust him on anything else? ===
You can’t. But I have to say Rauner lost his credibility in my book a long time ago.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:47 am
Unless you are your own Grandpa…
Comment by Doofman Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:47 am
What kind of guy?
The guy who lied about election nite phone call and never looked back.
Comment by Annonin' Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:47 am
Maybe it was the Wisconsin accent. Dem, Dat. Dis & Dere that he thought they were immigrants from Sweden. Bruce try a bagel like “bay-g” or “bay-gel.”
Perhaps
Comment by Get it Solved Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:48 am
It is telling about Governor Rauner. Shows you can’t believe anything that comes out of his mouth. Who makes a “mistake” like that anyways?
Comment by Stones Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:48 am
My niece and nephew call their great-grandma “grandma”. Since he already clarified that he was actually speaking about his great-grandparents, isn’t it possible he just didn’t use “great” when describing them?
Comment by ste_with_a_v_en Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:49 am
If that’s on the table, it brings the whole story in question. Was his grandfather really a dairy farmer, or was that just part of the story to appeal to farmers? Did his grandfather teach him how to hunt, or was that just part of the story to appeal to hunters? Typical phoniness from Rauner, matching his absurd costumes and g-dropping.
Comment by TopHatMonocle Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:50 am
Cut Bruce some slack. As my great-grandfather, a famous Illinoisan named Abraham Lincoln always said, “Honesty is overrated, and Bruce Rauner is the greatest politician to ever grace the land of me.”
Comment by AlfondoGonz Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:50 am
Just imagine all the times he told this story to close business deals when he was at GTCR. Or his college application, job interviews. I agree with Rich this is startling. Having opposing political views is one thing, this is a whole other matter.
Comment by Almost the weekend Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:50 am
The one consistent thing here is that Rauner is that Rauner is becoming more and more like Trump. Rauner, like Trump, is, always has been, and always will be a liar.
Comment by anon Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:50 am
Ok, then.
Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:51 am
===isn’t it possible he just===
No. His great grandfather didn’t work in a buttery, didn’t live in a double wide, etc.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:51 am
He doesn’t just lie about his grandpa, he also lied about his daughter (and her perfect scores).
Lying just comes so easily to him. It is natural. He just says whatever he thinks will serve his interests best - facts be (banned word). Kinda like our President.
Apparently integrity is for suckers.
Comment by Henry Francis Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:52 am
Rauner purposely lied about a fact, as a adult, he knew was patently false and a provable lie that a home willing to dig could find with a relative (pun, no pun intended, up to you) ease speaks volumes to a gross lack of character Bruce Rauner has had well before his run for governor, and this lacking continues to build upon itself with more revelations like this coming to light.
There’s more time with an incumbent to fact check than trying to keep up with a wealthy challenger spending millions solely on “Pat Quinn fails”
Rauner’s continued lie about his grandfather is disturbing.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:52 am
It is so easy to prove these stories false in this era of electronic communications. There is a Rauner family tree on ancestry.com with census results and other records to disprove the gov’s tale.
Comment by Nearly Normal Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:53 am
If you ask Bruce the time or the weather…make sure there’s a clock, a coat, and umbrella nearby.
Comment by Jocko Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:54 am
Rauner’s grandparents immigrated from Wisconsin… just like his union busting agenda
Comment by Carole Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:54 am
Maybe he also hates Bacon
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:54 am
It’s strange and disturbing. But it’s also a dumb lie. Someone obviously told Rauner that it’s more effective to say, “grandparents” instead of “great-grandparents.”
I don’t think it makes a difference, but it does show Rauner as someone who cares more about political narrative than simply telling the truth.
But — we knew this. We knew there was no midnight call to Madigan on election night. We now there are no old ladies coming up to Rauner and saying he’s the only hope for Illinois. We know there are not hundreds of companies lined up and waiting to come to Illinois.
The point, as George Lakoff repeatedly points out, is that it’s not the truth or falsity that matters in politics. It’s the “contextual frames” activated by the statement. In other words, when true believers hear the words, they immediately “get it”. True? Doesn’t matter. It’s just the feelings activated by the words and sentiment. Here — the narrative is: I come from humble beginnings. I understand your frustration. I had it, too. I’m as apple pie as you are.
Comment by Mr. K. Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:54 am
And yet I bet none of his supporters will care, just a hand wave about how this is nitpicky or a smear job and right back on the Rauner train.
Comment by Epic Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:55 am
My favorite memory of my grandfather involved Blackhawk hockey tickets. He took me to church. During services I heard the person in front talk about needing to get rid of a couple of tix. As you would expect from a young kid, I asked (more like begged) my grandfather to ask about them. He got the tix and they were great seats just rows from the glass. I had a great time. I never found out if it cost him anything for the tickets.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:57 am
“O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!” ~My Grandmother
Comment by Dome Gnome Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:59 am
===… he also lied about his daughter (and her perfect scores).===
Rauner also indicated “maybe” Diana called Arne Duncan, or “maybe not”
Lots of family have been part of the Bruce Rauner cover. Lots.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:01 am
Rauner is a salesman who is smart enough to realize that he could make more money by buying and parting out or selling companies than he could by parting out or selling used cars. His moral compass is governed by “the end justifies the means.” He takes a few facts and weaves them into a story that he believes will help make the sale. The deal is more important than impeccable veracity.
Comment by Grandpa2 Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:07 am
I havent believed things that he said since he first claimed to be a conservative republican. His lies just keep growing. If he was a wooden boy, a whole flock of buzzards could perch on his nose by now.
Comment by SOIL M Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:10 am
It wouldn’t surprise me if Bruce Rauner never even met his grandparents.
Comment by Michael Westen Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:11 am
Reminds me of a certain senator from Massachusetts.
Comment by blue dog dem Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:12 am
Let’s not forget the recent whopper he told about his attending services at African-American churches most Sunday mornings. Yet another tale that was instantly, easily, demonstrably, definitively proven false–yet he persists.
Comment by Linus Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:16 am
When laser focus is on self gain (wealth, power), then truth/lies are used to fit the need of achieving the goal. Amoral attitude
prevails. I’m wondering if Trump and Rauner attended the same secret seminars of billionaires like last seasons House of Cards.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:18 am
Perhaps his grandparents didn’t drop “g’s,” so Rauner just thought they couldn’t speak English.
Comment by A Jack Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:18 am
I look forward to reading more about this in the tronc, which *definitely* has a major firewall between editorial and reporting /s
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:19 am
Rich, the guy has been a proven liar on so many things, it’s not a surprise he’d lie about his grandparents. Wholly invented phone calls on Election Night 2014 with Madigan and Cullerton. Continues to invent conversations with Madigan. Goes on and on about growing up middle class when his dad was VP at Motorola!
Comment by Precinct Captain Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:20 am
Lying about matters unrelated to your party’s platform is no longer a sin. Ideologues are only held to account when their lies expose a misalignment with their base. Nothing else matters.
Comment by anonymous Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:23 am
Double wide what? Double wide lie.
Comment by Red Rider Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:27 am
I’m not surprised by this, he seems to be allergic to the truth.
Comment by Flynn's mom Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:35 am
The Carhartt is a lie. The biker vest is a lie. Dropping his G’s is a lie. It is all pet of a phony attempt to make himself appear to be a regular guy.
He’s not just like you, but too many want to believe the lie.
Some of the people, all of the time.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:36 am
Did not Clinton during the recent Presidential campaign also state all of her grandparents were immigrants which was found to be a lie?
Comment by My thoughts Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:42 am
So the grandparents on the other side aren’t Charles Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:52 am
Rauner Lies Are Constant.
Comment by Shake Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:00 pm
- My thoughts - Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 11:42 am:
“Did not Clinton during the recent Presidential campaign also state all of her grandparents were immigrants which was found to be a lie?”
That’s it. I’m definitely not voting for Hillary Clinton as Illinois Governor in 2018. So done with her gubernatorial chicanery.
Comment by illini97 Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:00 pm
@illini97 - People who view and nit pick at the other party’s politicians refuse to acknowledge their own party’s politicians do the same thing.
Comment by My thoughts Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:16 pm
They weren’t speaking Swedish - they were just running the tapes backwards. Or secretly Norwegian?
Comment by Newsclown Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:50 pm
=Reminds me of a certain senator from Massachusetts.=
Was his name Bruce Rauner?
=People who view and nit pick at the other party’s politicians refuse to acknowledge their own party’s politicians do the same thing.=
I don’t belong to a “party” I just loathe liars and call them out when I find them.
Deflect all you want, if it helps you by devolving into school yard arguments, more power to you. But they are silly.
Rauner is a liar. If he is your liar, he is still a liar. That is not in question.
Discuss yesterday’s news to your hearts content, because that is what Hillary Clinton is. That does not change the fact that our current governor is a liar.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:56 pm
===nit pick===
If you think this topic is a nit pick, then you are too hyperpartisan to even discuss this with. Stop obfuscating and join the discussion, or go.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:56 pm
Terrible comparison. It is widely believed that Clinton is insincere. A lack of enthusiasm stemming from voter distrust (esp among Democrats who supported Obama in 2008) largely explains Clinton’s failed candidacy. If Rauner’s people still trust and support him in 2018, it says a lot more about their inability to admit he’s a liar than it does about Democrats, many of whom noted Clinton’s failings and abandoned ship.
Comment by Dr. M Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 12:57 pm
An adult man made up an immigrant story about a beloved grandparent to allegedly score political points and seem to empathize with others…
You have to question the honestly of that adult man that will make up a story to seem empathetic instead of just being honest and show honest empathy.
“I feel empathy because I made up a story to prove that to you”
Wow.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:03 pm
so … his maternal great-grandfather was born in Sweden, but … his maternal grandfather was the butter-maker
Comment by Wisconsin kerry-gold controversy Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:05 pm
Rauner made up this Immigrant Grandparents story to con immigrants into thinking he can understand their struggle. That is why he likes to dress as a cowboy, construction worker, biker with pins on his vest,Carhart and plaid, junky van, 18 dollar timex watch, droppin’ G’s. He is laughing at us and thinks we are unwashed dummies.
Comment by DeseDemDose Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:12 pm
Rauner is not a fan of the literal meaning of his own words.
“Grandparent” is a category for Rauner, not an identity. Like “met with” can mean a whole series of different things for him, including an unanswered phone message to an associate of the person he “met with.”
It’s a bad habit; he’s just not used to his words being questioned or fact-checked.
Comment by walker Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:14 pm
Here is the import of the story:
Rauner never mentions his parents on the campaign trail. Can’t blame him. Dad was a top executive for a telephone company and an attorney. Bruce grew up in Deerfield, a privileged beginning.
So Bruce claims his grandfather’s values.
Now it seems the life experience that shaped those values is a bit of a sham.
The fact that his great grandfather emigrated from Sweden doesn’t mitigate things: Rauner never knew his great grandfather.
At this point I would be traveling to Whirewater if I were Politico. Doublewides weren’t invented until the late 60’s. I would look at property records to see if any part of Rauner’s story is true. I would also ask him to recollect just how often he was in Whitewater, why we haven’t seen any family photos from grandpa’s house. Seems if grandpa did indeed teach him to hunt and fish, there ought to be atleast one childhood picture. I know I have pictures of my first catch. Doesn’t everyone?
Comment by Thomas Paine Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:24 pm
Jsmill. My definition of lying is saying whatever it takes to get elected. Name me a politician who doesnt fit that bill.
Comment by Blue dog dem Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:28 pm
Consider the source.
Comment by IL-6 Voter Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:34 pm
Bruce is an unrepentant liar. Upon completing a tour of UI Research Park in early 2015 he informed me three companies/start-ups were leaving if he “didn’t get his agenda” in the first six months.
I asked who they were, as per my role as Mayor at the time, to reach out to them and negotiate to keep them here. Of course, he would not reveal who spoke to him, simply repeating, “Oh, believe me, they are out of here if we don’t get these fixes”.
Long story short - those on the tour confirmed no one said any such thing & no UIRP tenants have pulled up stakes and bolted because we don’t have term limits and their parking lots and green space is still tended to by union employees…
Comment by Don Gerard Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:35 pm
And if you really think he released that bullfrog unharmed that he stalked for an entire day, I’ve got a bridge to show you.
Comment by Chris P. Bacon Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 1:50 pm
Rich, sorry to have to invite you to the ‘club’ of people who if Rauner said the sky is blue, would go outside to check it out.
Comment by IRLJ Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:06 pm
=== And if he won’t tell the truth about that, how can anybody trust him on anything else? ===
One can’t, and one shouldn’t.
I’m coming to the ILPOL gig very late in the game compared to others here, but over the past six months I’ve not been impressed by the governor’s relationship with veracity.
Everything he says henceforth should be fact-checked by Politico. Everything.
Comment by dbk Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:14 pm
I’m pretty disappointed that you guys don’t believe him. Why? Because I know what Rauner says is true.
You see, my great grandfather ran a circus in Wisconsin and one day he told me that whenever they ran out of butter, they bought from a Swedish buttermaker living in a double-wide, down by the Wisconsin River.
The buttermaker spoke not a single word of English. Instead he would smile and point at his butter churns and just knew what kind of butter you needed, and how much.
I kind you not.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:17 pm
==Rich, sorry to have to invite you to the ‘club’ of people who if Rauner said the sky is blue, would go outside to check it out.==
Did you need to go check it out?
Comment by Timmeh Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:47 pm
Many of us longtime McLean Co GOP’ers realized Rauner was full of it right after he was sworn in.
Comment by Mcleaniac Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:49 pm
Of course, there was also the politician who worked in two presidential administrations who was always touting the fact that he had street smarts because he had a uncle or somebody who was a former Chicago police officer, so that gave him instant street cred.
Comment by Say What? Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:50 pm
I thought his great grandfather was Sven Rockefeller.
Comment by jimk849 Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 2:58 pm
Check out Rauner campaigning on Lower Wacker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NeS4ueaU6w
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:03 pm
my grandpa could kick his grandpa’s ass
Comment by FLEA Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:04 pm
So why now from Politifact?
Who dropped the dime on Rauner? A spurned Superstar or a Dem guv candidate?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:08 pm
I am joining the discussion the nit pick is about viewing another’s faults while ignoring ones own does not accomplish anything. By your words “And if he won’t tell the truth about that, how can anybody trust him on anything else?” does that mean we could not have trusted Clinton upon anything if she became President?
Comment by My thoughts Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:08 pm
Rauner missed his calling, which is “storyteller”.
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:18 pm
Rauner was born on third base. His dad was a big-wig at Motorola back in the day when that meant something. Rauner went to the best, most expensive schools, without having to apply for a tax-credit scholarship. None of this talk about grandparents, true or not, changes that.
Comment by The Real Just Me Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:27 pm
How does pointing out the fact that someone else is a liar also, help in anyway? So there is more than one liar. That does not make either one of them any more trustworthy. It just shows there is no way to defend the fact he is a liar and always has been.
Comment by SOIL M Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:30 pm
@BDD- interesting. My definition of lying is saying something that you know to be untrue. I don’t care who does it, it does not make it right or acceptable.
I don’t really care what your definition is.
Your moral relativism is your problem not mine.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 3:43 pm
==By your words “And if he won’t tell the truth about that, how can anybody trust him on anything else?” does that mean we could not have trusted Clinton upon anything if she became President?==
Sure, if you need to hear that. Clinton’s lie doesn’t make Rauner’s lie true.
Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 4:01 pm
Rauner told a whopper and the media virtually ignored it. If it were Madigan it would have led every news broadcast and front page for the newspapers.
Comment by Media Bias Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 4:08 pm
Makes you wonder what kinds of “stories” he’ll be tellin’ in Japan and China on his “jobs tour”.
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 4:13 pm
Instead of just dropping the “g”, he dropped the “great”. He only uses “great” to describe himself!
Comment by Clint Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 4:17 pm
And his other grandparents lived in a van down by the river.
Comment by Steve Rogers Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 5:01 pm
@Vanillaman-
That was deliciously funny. Thank you.
To the Post -
This is the kind of stuff Rod Blagojevich and Mark Kirk used to pull. The story was always too good to be true, and the fact Rauner repeats it not just in speeches but also in one-on-one conversations raises questions about whether he is capable of being truthful or even knows the difference.
This is not, BTW, something “all politicians do”, but it might become more common if we are not careful.
Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 5:50 pm
Blue Dog Dem: have to admit I never voted for him and worked against him but I think Paul Simmon is the politician and I sure as heck miss him now
Comment by DuPage Saint Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 6:05 pm
“My definition of lying is saying whatever it takes to get elected. Name me a politician who doesnt fit that bill.”
My definition of dishonesty is saying whatever it takes to get your politician elected. Not every commenter on this post fits that bill.
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:13 pm
Bruce and Diana lied to my face several times, to their friends, and in writing about supporting HB 40. Dishonesty is their brand. They live on it.
Comment by Cosgrove Thursday, Sep 7, 17 @ 10:42 pm
Businessmen should not run any government entities and politicians should not run companies.
Apples Oranges
Comment by Dave Kingman Friday, Sep 8, 17 @ 4:25 am
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Friday, Sep 8, 17 @ 7:46 am
Rauner told a lie? Nooooo. Tell me this isn’t true.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Sep 8, 17 @ 3:18 pm