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Voting with their feet

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Illinois Board of Higher Education Executive Director Al Bowman said that 29 percent of Illinois high school seniors left the state to go to college in 2002. Now, he said, that figure is just more than 46 percent.

“That’s something we need to do something about,” Bowman said on WGN AM-720. “Fortunately for Illinois, two-thirds of those kids who get degrees out of the state come back. But among Illinois residents who earn degrees in the state, 92 percent of them remain in the state after graduation,” he said.

Bowman said there are more than 80 schools outside the state that have full-time offices in the Chicago area to recruit Illinois students.

“We not only produce a lot of students, we produce very good students and they’re in demand. States around us like Indiana and Iowa don’t produce enough high school graduates to fill their enrollment targets. They need Illinois residents,” he said.

The full program, hosted by Rick Pearson, is here. Rick’s show is always a must-listen.

* IBHE Chairman Tom Cross told the Trib that the constant bad-mouthing of Illinois by its leaders and its residents isn’t helping, either…

“We all fall into that trap and when people repeat it time and time again and you read it in the paper and you hear it on the news, if you’re a student and you’re thinking about where you want to go to school and all you’ve heard about is how bad Illinois is on all of the issues, then I think that perpetuates the problem even more,” he said.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 9:41 am

Comments

The effective tuition penalty for leaving the state has all but been eliminated. Attending Western Michigan or Ball State costs the same or less than attending NIU or ISU. That’s the problem, particularly when you combine that with the self inflicted “Illinois stinks” narrative Cross mentioned.

The General Assembly passed some good legislation to address the problem this year, but more needs to be done.

Comment by Roman Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 9:58 am
So talking about how bad Illinois is the problem?

If only everyone would ignore our problems like the legislature has done for decades Illinois would be in much better shape apparently.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:16 am
===If only everyone would ignore our problems===

Leave it to you to be the first one out of the gate with this childish response.

Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:16 am
Here is yet another subject that could make a hard hitting ad against rauner. Easy to understand. Resonates. Hard to defend. JB? JB?

Comment by Langhorne Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:37 am
So Social Darwinism isn’t an attractive state higher ed policy for students and parents considering such a huge investment? Go figure.

Some states really hustle for the Illinois kids.

Iowa City is C-U West. Last year, 28% of the incoming freshman class at Iowa was from Illinois.

https://admissions.uiowa.edu/future-students/first-year-student-profile

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:39 am
==So talking about how bad Illinois is the problem?==

No, Mr. Wizard. What was said is that it’s not helpful to constantly bad mouth the state. And that is absolutely true. Tell us how constantly bad mouthing the state helps solve any problems?

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:40 am
If you do the math based on the numbers above, between the kids that leave and never come back and the kids that stay but leave anyway, about 20% of the State’s new college graduates are now leaving the State.

So, what are the longterm prospects for the State when we see continued declining enrollment seen state-wide at the K-12 level and the increasing rate of those graduating college leaving the State?

Comment by Occam Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:42 am
Illinois has reducing its commitment to higher education for decades. There used to be something called the Illinois State Scholarship. It was for Illinois residents who went to private colleges in Illinois. In the 1970s, it was $1,500 a year. At that time, the full cost (room, board, tuition) of the University of Chicago was around $5,000, So it paid about a third. Now you can argue that subsidizing private schools is not something the state should do but the reduction and eventual elimination of the ISS reflects the attitude toward higher education in this state. The public universities should have known that they would be next after support for private schools was eliminated.

Comment by Martin Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:43 am
To the Post,

With the plan by Bruce and Diana Rauner, a business decision, to passively close state universities, schools like Iowa, Iowa State, Michigan directional schools, Wisconsin directional schools… Alabama… they go after Illinois students, they love that they poach Illinois’ best and brightest.

The “sixth” largest state in America has 46% of its high school seniors going out of state for their freshman year of higher education. Bruce abd Diana Rauner donated the Puzo Papers, to be kept for “centuries” at a private school out of state with a dormatory, library, and educational grants and scholarships that bear the Rauner name.

The destruction of Illinois higher ed is a purposeful thing by the Rauners. Will this changing tide to stop Raunerism keep the Crimson Tide from more poaching?

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:53 am
===The public universities should have known that they would be next after support for private schools was eliminated.===

I’m not familiar with the Illinois State Scholar program, but I can assure you that Illinois still supports private higher education. The Monetary Award Program is a need-based scholarship program run by ISAC that acts like a voucher. It benefits low income Illinois students and encourages choice in the market since it can be used to attend Community College, public or private universities.

This is smart because for a relatively low cost, by including private universities, the state is able to double the number of graduates every year (all IL universities as opposed to publics only). It’s a very smart investment that does exactly what it is intended: help low income Illinois students attend college in Illinois.

Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 10:57 am
47 has it right. It is cheaper for the state to modestly support a spot at a private school, than have to expand public capacity, to meet fluctuating demand.

Comment by Langhorne Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:04 am
Amazing how Speaker Madigan can publicly say he is not a change person and literally crush any efforts for reform but pointing this out is “childish”.

Sorry but defending the same policies that have failed us for decades is far worse than “bad mouthing” them.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:04 am
The show was interesting, but the really crucial issues was the lack of discussion of the new U of I/Bailey development and the anti SIUE rampage by the SIU board.
Cross did make a good point talkin’ about the impact of hate speech on IL.

Comment by Annonin' Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:12 am
==Leave it to you to be the first one out of the gate with this childish response.==

Saw nothing wrong with his comment.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:23 am
==mazing how Speaker Madigan can publicly say he is not a change person ==

At least he didn’t say he’s not in charge. I seem to remember someone saying that.

==is far worse than “bad mouthing” them.==

How is bad mouthing the state helpful?

Rich was right a few days ago. I think your only purpose on here is to spread false propoganda.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:26 am
==So talking about how bad Illinois is the problem?==

It sure isn’t the solution.

Comment by Name Withheld Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:29 am
I have no answers. Clearly, our leaders don’t either. My observations of being a College student 20 years ago and being in education is this. Coming from a working class suburb, nobody even thought or looked out of state 20 years ago in significant numbers. What changed? Standards in k-12 and unfunded mandates created “better” students. Our fiscal issues, are not a secret. These out of state options in many cases cost the same or less than in state options. Academically, do you want an engineering degree from Northern or Alabama at the same cost or less? It’s not even a tough decision. Rauner clearly has let the state schools die on the vine so to speak. I don’t know if that’s the right decision. I only know only so many “good” students in state can go to U of I. I am Alumni of one of the “lesser” state schools. I had a great experience and education. But, I had no other options. Out of state schools are viable and in many ways better options. The question Rauner is asking without asking, do we need Eastern, Northern, Western, Southern, and ISU. Probably not. We don’t have the money. Blaming Rauner is easy. Solving many years of system failure is tough. I get it.

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:30 am
===Amazing how Speaker Madigan can publicly say he is not a change person and literally crush any efforts for reform but pointing this out is “childish”.===

… and yet… you support a governor that certified and verified the need and the existence of a 32% tax increase, with his own signature… with zero reforms… and no turnaround agenda items implemented.

According to your own benchmarks, Rauner is Madigan.

Yeah, it’s more obvious. This incarnation of this “Lucky Pierre” is designed for false propaganda.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:31 am
===We don’t have the money. Blaming Rauner is easy.===

Oh - Benfolds5 -, lol

Rauner isn’t a victim. Keep up, please.

You fund something at a level of zero if you want it eliminated.

Only a governor can veto.

“Blaming Rauner is easy.”

Who else can veto funding for higher ed?

You think on that.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:34 am
===I only know only so many “good” students in state can go to U of I.===

(Sigh)

You seem to lack the grasping of what’s at play here.

1) Students getting full ride merit scholarships to Iowa, Iowa State, Alabama… they aren’t getting these merit scholarships with 2.1 GPAs and 13 on the ACT. These are our best student, that do get into UIC, UIUC… but why pay when other schools will pay them to go there.

2) UIUC has lowered its standards to let more in-state students in, so it’s not that the standards are being raised, they’re being lowered. It’s a financial decision, not an academic challenge question often.

3) Out of state schools, they know the funding challenges, and the value of free education when merit scholarships are a deciding factor. Why take tens of thousands of dollars in debt when other schools are not only paying for school, but meal plans.

The Rauners are purposely destroying higher education.

We need to do better in Illinois for our students to stay.

Forcing universities to close isn’t doing better.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:43 am
Willy
I totally agree with you. 100%. Rauner is capitalizing on the fact we don’t have money and it’s “survival of the fittest” for these universities. I think the problem has been one longer than Rauner with our fiscal issues. I am saying, maybe it’s the right move to Veto spending we don’t have. Again, I don’t know if I agree or disagree with his take. I will say, we are talking about the issues now instead of just passing bills for money we don’t have. I am open to all ideas. Maybe you can think on that?

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:46 am
===I think the problem has been one longer than Rauner with our fiscal issues. I am saying, maybe it’s the right move to Veto spending we don’t have.===

I don’t think you fully grasp what it means to fully agree with someone too…

What you wrote above, that’s the whole crux of the argument, and further, if your take is that, and you think we fully agree, you may need to rethink how you use words.

Respectfully, but geez Louise, you can’t make sense saying you agree 100% and the whole crux that Rauner refuses to fund state universities and “we can’t spend what we don’t have” is anything close to my take.

With respect, but…

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:50 am
We have been spending what we don’t have for decades and it is much easier to get reelected that way vs. raising taxes and cutting spending.

One more reason why bipartisan majorities support term limits because legislators have been more concerned with self preservation than fixing Illinois.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:53 am
I wanted this alone…

===I am open to all ideas. Maybe you can think on that?===

I have given my ideas on this subject, some might say “ad nauseum”.

Closing state universities… you pick which region loses its economic engines of a state university… Rauner wants them passively closed, ask him why he won’t tell Carbondale, Macomb, Charleston he wants their university closed.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:54 am
He should not have to tell which region… The students and parents are deciding that for them. It’s not his job to choose that. College is not guaranteed by the state or anyone else. See how that works? Want the students, slim down and talk to each other. Use the data. If ISU is teaching. Guess what nobody should offer it. Or, are the Universities that may see an opening okay with less competition and free market?

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:02 pm
Wasn’t it Eisenhower who said if you can’t find a solution to a problem enlarge it. Think Bigger.
Our public higher education system is not only losing Illinois students who go elsewhere it is also with the exception of the University of Illinois with their commitment to Asian recruitment not doing enough to attract out of state. Yes money is an issue, but so is organization. Should all of public higher education in Illinois be brought together under one authority? Should their be a master plan?
Why don’t we share in the reciprocity agreements that out midwestern neighbors observe?

Comment by Illinoisvoter Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:03 pm
It is significantly easier to be accepted at Iowa than UIUC.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:09 pm
Illinoisvoter… Yup. Why not have the University systems to
stop being all things to all students?

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:09 pm
===He should not have to tell which region… The students and parents are deciding that for them.===

No.

Your utter ignorance now is showing.

You fund something at a level of zero if you want it gone. That’s how budgets work. Rauner wants to starve the universities to see who can survive without funding, and the passive closing was an active choice. Why won’t Rauner tell these regions what the plan is? Hmm.

===It’s not his job to choose that.===

It’s his job to sign budgets to fund things. That’s how this works, LOL… a budget weighs and measures choices by the weight of the monies allocated. Those are indeed choices.

===College is not guaranteed by the state or anyone else.===

Since 1857, Illinois fully funded, yearly, higher education, until Bruce Rauner. That’s not guaranteeing anything but a commitment to higher education. You’re starting yo mouth breathe…

===Want the students, slim down and talk to each other. Use the data. If ISU is teaching. Guess what nobody should offer it.===

So, if EIU is English, no other university should offer English? Engineering? Accounting?

===Or, are the Universities that may see an opening okay with less competition and free market?===

See, you agree with Rauner… survival of the fittest, close state universities…

How in the world do you think we agreed at all, even at 109%, LOL

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:10 pm
===It is significantly easier to be accepted at Iowa than UIUC.===

For the 2,678th time…

It’s not about the students not getting accepted… it’s about the cost to go to UIUC then UIUC not even getting state funding for 2 full fiscal years.

Why have loans for $60k when Iowa will pay you to attend?

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:12 pm
Willy you are correct, we don’t. Because it was funded fully when times were good and now the bills are due. He is saying no. What is JB’s solution to this issue? That’s all of our problems. Rauner isn’t funding something that isn’t required. If I have to choose this issue to someone that is going to go backwards, on this issue. That’s leadership. Making tough decisions. I would rather pay our bills than take out new ones. I would rather DCFS have close to funding of what they need before Colleges. Yes, I 100% agree close what we can’t pay for…

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:14 pm
===…you are correct, we don’t.===

I know I’m correct, it was you with the confusion, lol

===Because it was funded fully when times were good and now the bills are due.===

Keep up please, the idea that state universities weren’t fully funded for an entire GA under Rauner’s vetoes… nope, sorry, apologist rhetoric aside, again, Rauner is purposely passively trying to close state universities, that hasn’t been going on until Rauner.

===Rauner isn’t funding something that isn’t required.===

LOL, not according to Rauner and that partnership in Chicago with donated land and other Illinois universities. We’re told the best way to attract businesses is quality higher education.

===That’s leadership. Making tough decisions.===

Do yourself a solid… look up the meaning of “passive” and what “passively” actually means.

When did Rauner say we need to close state universities?

===Yes, I 100% agree close what we can’t pay for..===

Why won’t Rauner go to Carbondale, Charleston, Macomb and tell those towns and that region that?

Why?

And you’re saying Rauner is showing leadership?

LOL

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:22 pm
Whether you’re trying to attract businesses or students bad mouthing the state doesn’t help. And while our neighbors have been focused on increasing the enrollment of out of state students we’ve been focused on “starving the beast”? It seems that they view their universities as an asset while we see ours as a liability.

Comment by Pundent Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:26 pm
=Because it was funded fully when times were good and now the bills are due. He is saying no.=

Do you really think that’s what he’s doing? If so then why isn’t Rauner willing to go to Macomb, Carbondale, and Charleston and say that?

Rauner’s unwillingness to fund higher ed wasn’t borne out of “bills.” He saw them as something that could be used for leverage pure and simple.

Comment by Pundent Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:37 pm
Benfolds5, you are exactly the problem, and not the solution.

Apparently you don’t know how higher ed works, or how its funding works, or what students want and need.

“Let’s send all Education to one university in the state” is exactly the ignorant opinion that’s sending this state to the bottom. People choose education who have families, who are starting over in life, who work and live at home, etc., and so having flexible options is the key.

Like Trump, you think everything is easy and you are the first one to think of the easy solution.

Comment by Blue Bayou Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:39 pm
I had no idea Illinois “fully funded” higher education every year since 1857.

That might be the biggest whopper you have ever posted OW

Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:49 pm
LOL, Iowa will pay you to attend??? Maybe, if your GPA and test scores are off the charts. If they are, do you want a degree from Iowa?

Many kids can’t get in UIUC so they apply to places like Iowa and are accepted. They pay to attend. That is how college works for the majority of students.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:52 pm
===Maybe, if your GPA and test scores are off the charts.===

If they’re off the charts, I’d guess you’d be able to get into UIUC too, lol

===If they are, do you want a degree from Iowa?===

“I have no student debt, and I got a degree from a B1G university.”

“Oh yeah… well I paid full price, have $60K in debt, and were applying for the same job”

The snobbiness of UIUC has no bounds, lol

“But I got to pay… you went to Iowa”

Yikes.

===Many kids can’t get in UIUC so they apply to places like Iowa and are accepted.===

… and yet, just above, you typed…

===Maybe, if your GPA and test scores are off the charts.===

Which way are a leaning? lol

===They pay to attend.===

… and cheaper in many cases after residency rule than our other state universities too.

But “you know”… with smugness to boot.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 12:58 pm
===I had no idea Illinois “fully funded” higher education every year since 1857.===

It wasn’t… the first 2 years Rauner was governor.

You know that, lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:08 pm
==That might be the biggest whopper ==

You’re not really in a position to be criticizing anyone for posting whopper LP.

==term limits==

Last I checked we already had them. They are called elections.

Besides, tell us all how term limits helps state finances.

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:10 pm
It’s not a whopper.

Rauner is the lone governor never to fully fund higher education with his purposeful vetoes.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:12 pm
Blue Bayou Again, I understand clearly how higher ed is funded. By students. The state can give money when we have it. We don’t. Yes, Rauner is saying no. Is JB saying yes? How will he provide what doesn’t NEED to be hired. I WANT a BMW I can afford a Ford. I drive a Ford. Sometimes, things are easy. Saying no and living within your means is easy. Because people hate Trump or hate Rauner. We forget that nobody is right or wrong. It’s called compromise. How will the GA help our students compromise? They haven’t before.

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:15 pm
===Rauner is the lone governor never to fully fund higher education with his purposeful vetoes.===

… it was only after signing a budget that certified the 32% tax increase… with no reforms… no turnaround agenda… that Rauner decided to fully fund for a fiscal year higher education by a full fiscal year budget.

Rauner failed.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:17 pm
===I understand clearly how higher ed is funded. By students.===

LOL… you are utterly clueless. Here I thought the wackiest thing you thought was we agreed.

How do you explain the state monies in th budget to run the state universities, and Rauner refusing to fund state universities… with state money.

Your logic… students shoulda fully funded these universities during the hostage taking by Rauner. Ugh.

===Rauner is saying no.===

Then that’s on Rauner, abd Rauner alone.

Do you keep forgetting to answer why Rauner won’t go to Macomb, Carbondale, and Charleston about closing th schools, why won’t Rauner do that?

===Saying no and living within your means is easy. Because people hate Trump or hate Rauner.===

So you support the separating of children from parents? It’s not Trump?

Rauner is passively. What next, do I have to give you the definition of passive?

===How will the GA help our students compromise? They haven’t before.===

… and yet… with your utter ignorance, you must not “know” about these new merit scholarships and other assistance to keep Illinois students in state.

But “haven’t”… lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:35 pm
Out of State tuition:
Illinois $31,988
Iowa $28,813
Michigan $47,476

Iowa ranked near the bottom of BT schools.

Source: 2018 Ranking US News

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:37 pm
===Out of State tuition:
Illinois $31,988
Iowa $28,813===

Before “residency” cutout… where IL students after freshman year pay in-state tuition thereafter

I don’t think you have the first idea what is going on.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:43 pm
Average ACT score Iowa 23-28 enrollment 33,334

Average ACT score UIUC 26-32 enrollment 44,087

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:45 pm
….I understand clearly how higher ed is funded. By students. …..

Huh? That would make the schools private, By definition - public funds help subsidize public schools.

Comment by iThink Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:50 pm
“I paid full price for a Cadillac”

Yeah, those are the people that crack me up.

“Iowa wanted to give me a full merit scholarship but I wanted $60k in debt when I graduate, because… “

I love that argument.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:51 pm
Are you saying Illinois students are leaving the state because they’re not smart enough to stay in-state…

LOL

Go with that one.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:54 pm
Too bad with UIUC’s stellar reputation, high admittance standards and haughty attitude, those Hawkeye grads are getting the same jobs as those from UIUC. I have two of them. So much for being at the bottom of the barrel. And saved a bunch not going to UIUC. Make no mistake. I’m a UIUC alum. But they had nothing to offer (monetarilly and also communication wise).other than their reputation.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:54 pm
Benfolds5, that’s not an argument, it’s a statement of opinion based on your beliefs about how things work (mistaken) and ought to work (short-sighted, without evidence, ignorant of necessities and planning).

We can craft a progressive income tax, among other things, in order to invest in the state’s future via education. It’s complicated, but plenty of states have figured it out and the models are there.

We are only as “broke” as we decide to be.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:55 pm
Know many people who got paid to attend the University of Iowa?

Some people want to drive a Ford Focus and pay for a Focus, some want to drive a Tahoe and pay for it.

I just outlined the facts on both schools, which makes it pretty clear why one school needs to wheel and deal and the other does not.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 1:57 pm
I left Illinois and I left the US for my diplomas.
The question should be Why Illinois?

Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:00 pm
===Some people want to drive a Ford Focus and pay for a Focus, some want to drive a Tahoe and pay for it.===

LOL…

“I want to pay”

Yeah… well… Illinois only behind New Jersey in outward migration and cost was a huge mitigating factor.

Again, you have no idea what’s driving this.

That’s why there’s a push for… you guessed it merit scholarships… for in-state Illinois students.

Keep up

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:00 pm
==I left Illinois and I left the US for my diplomas.==

Who cares what you did?

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:04 pm
It’s not just the cost.
Why would a healthy active 18 year old want to stay surrounded by humidity flat land and corn? I don’t want any of my kids staying here. There’s literally mountains to climb, seas to swim in, beaches to explore and foests to discover. Why stay in this boring state?

Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:06 pm
Anonymous @ 1:55 was me.

Comment by Blue Bayou Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:07 pm
===Know many people who got paid to attend the University of Iowa?===

Heck, your snobbiness…

Why are there over 1,700 Illinois students attending Alabama with 30+ ACTs and 3.5 GPA that Alabama tuition and then some.

The Trib has a whole article on it.

The students said… student debt was a factor.

But, please, pay full price.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:07 pm
Q. - Who will be left behind …after the smart kids escape?

A. - Low Wage Prisoners?

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:07 pm
==Who cares what you did?==

Because I did leave.
You guys are prattling on as if Illinois is the best. It’s not. When you get the first change to leave home, half of Illinois graduates are outta here.

You don’t want to know why by asking them?
That’s nuts.

Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:11 pm
We don’t have to pay for the Universities as a state. Start paying our backlog and funding what we HAVE to fund. It’s scary to hear No. I get it. As you say Willy, try and keep up. Will Chicago not attract talent for the jobs? Seems they are still? It’s a great place to have business right? You can’t have all the answers without the money.. Let’s fund the University systems that are not mandated. Willy, what do we cut? K-12? DCFS? Infrastructure? I am curious. You are picking a winner that isn’t on the required list. Who loses that is required?

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:16 pm
I don’t blame kids for wanting to go to schools out of state, there are a number of factors.

Regarding Alabama, you go for the football and the girls. You can have lower ACT scores than Iowa to be admitted.

Academically, most SEC schools(outside of Vandy) aren’t close to Big Ten schools.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:20 pm
- - Who will be left behind …after the smart kids escape?–

Wander the Greater Loop and North Side of Chicago and you’ll see they’ve come back and brought their friends, too.

If you can’t see that, you just don’t want to.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:22 pm
wordslinger is, as usual, right.

And add that what state universities also do is offer an educational opportunity for first-gen college students, minorities, people changing careers, looking for new opportunities, etc.

Engine of prosperity and progress.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:26 pm
The previous comment (at 2:26) is mine.

I wish the Name slot would auto-fill.

Comment by Blue Bayou Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:27 pm
===We don’t have to pay for the Universities as a state.===

Then they will close. You are utterly clueless.

Why won’t you answer.

Why won’t Rauner go to Charleston, Macomb, Carbondale and say he’s closing their university.

Why do you ignore that?

===Will Chicago not attract talent for the jobs? Seems they are still?===

… and yet Amazon points to a state’s Higher Education as a mitigating factor, you want universities closed. LOL

===…what do we cut? K-12? DCFS? Infrastructure? I am curious. You are picking a winner that isn’t on the required list. Who loses that is required?===

Rauner for 2 years wanted nothing funded.

The state had no budget.

How did that go?

Your anger towards paying for UIUC is palpable, but you paid full price for that Cadillac.

We’re only behind New Jersey…

Why won’t Rauner just close state universities?

That should be your question, not a question to me why they are still open… passively.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:29 pm
===Regarding Alabama, you go for the football and the girls. You can have lower ACT scores than Iowa to be admitted.=

… and yet, you ignore that Alabama offers merit scholarships, for students who could attend UIUC…

You keep ignoring obvious points made.

Why?

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:31 pm
===also do is offer an educational opportunity for first-gen college students, minorities, people changing careers, looking for new opportunities, etc.===

Careful, your elitist snobbiness is showing.

LOL

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:34 pm
===Academically, most SEC schools(outside of Vandy) aren’t close to Big Ten schools.===

… unless you don’t mind paying student loans.

LOL

It’s an economic issue. Another thing you seemingly ignore.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:35 pm
I’m sure Alabama is thrilled to have some students that have ACT scores exceeding 28-30. Do they pay those kids to attend like you think Iowa does? Do they get a free ride, beer money and free sporting event tickets?

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:40 pm
It got lost in all the bad Illinois higher education news, but UIC’s freshmen enrollment jumped 23 percent last fall.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180126/ISSUE01/180129903/how-uic-is-defying-the-odds-and-actually-growing

Similar admission standards with the directionals and similar tuition costs — but UIC is growing (a lot) while the others are shrinking. Is this fueled by Chicago area kids who are commuting because they can’t afford room-and-board at the directionals, or the growing trend of millennials wanting to live downtown? (They are building new dorms.)

Comment by Roman Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:45 pm
===I’m sure Alabama is thrilled to have some students that have ACT scores exceeding 28-30===

Hmm.

https://bit.ly/2Irbabv

===More than 40 percent of UA’s 7,559-member freshman class scored 30 or higher on the ACT, up from last year’s record 36 percent. In all, UA enrolled 37,665 students this fall, up from 37,100 in fall 2015.

“This record-setting freshman class is evidence of our commitment to grow strategically,” said UA President Stuart R. Bell. “And, as high achieving students graduate and remain in Alabama to begin their careers, it also helps grow the state’s economy.”

More than 31 percent of the freshman class had a high school Grade Point Average of 4.0 or higher, up from 29.5 percent last year. The class’s average ACT score is 27.1, the highest ever for UA, and up from last year’s 26.6 average.===

Google key…

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:49 pm
===Do they pay those kids to attend like you think Iowa does?===

You can search the merit scholarships for Alabama, and Iowa, you can get merit scholarships, heck you can get the “residency” cutout after your first 30 hours if you don’t qualify for merit scholarships, making it cheaper that Illinois schools too.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:51 pm
Last year…

===More than 40 percent of UA’s 7,407-member freshman class scored 30 or higher on the ACT and 38 percent were in the top 10 percent of their high school graduating class, according to the university. The entering class carries an average high school grade-point average of 3.72, with 34 percent having a high school GPA of 4.0 or higher.

“I would like to thank our faculty, staff, alumni and students who worked diligently to help make this year’s student body our highest achieving group yet,” said Kevin Whitaker, executive vice president and provost. “We take seriously our responsibilities to provide a premier education to these outstanding students.”===

https://bit.ly/2KkaXbM

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 2:55 pm
Willy.. Why should Rauner say close them? He should do it passively. These bastions of education should look to create consortiums. You don’t think Southern Illinois K-12 schools don’t pool resources? They are required to provide free education and can’t afford it. Yes, we should pay for something we don’t have to. It’s called resourcefulness. Why won’t you answer what we should cut that’s mandated to pay for what’s not? Your ignorance is showing.

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 3:04 pm
===Why should Rauner say close them? He should do it passively.===

Is that you Bruce?

Diana?

I thought you said Rauner was standing up, now you want him to passively do it?

===It’s called resourcefulness. Why won’t you answer what we should cut that’s mandated to pay for what’s not?===

I have.

That’s what budgets are for.

You weigh and measure and spend and cut, and own that weighing and measuring…

You must be in a dorm room at Dartmouth eating pop-tarts commenting as you are.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 3:08 pm
–We don’t have to pay for the Universities as a state.–

What model are you advocating for? Give your reasons.

Just being an anti-knowledge deadbeat doesn’t cut it.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 3:09 pm
==Benfolds5==

Perhaps you should have availed yourself of the education system. Just sayin.

Are you really advocating for completely de-funding higher education? Is that the brilliant plan you’ve come up with?

Comment by Demoralized Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 3:59 pm
I am for de funding higher ed completely. Why? I have earned 3 degrees in the state of Illinois. I paid for them. I was subsidized by the state when people in charge were not making hard decisions. What are you going to cut that’s mandated? Why are there no answers other than name calling? It’s radical to pay for what we use, I get it. What will you cut?

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 5:40 pm
===I am for de funding higher ed completely.==

But passively.

Why?

Why won’t you or Rauner face the voters in towns like Charleston, Macomb, and Carbondale and tell them you want them closed, and not do it passively.

Why?

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 5:44 pm
- Benfolds5 -

Ending higher education.

Lots of buildings, equipment, jobs, infrastructure… that all goes… also… ending higher ed… that won’t balance the budget. Nope. If anything, it makes Illinois less marketable, with less investments, and puts front and center a state not willing to invest in its people or recruit others to come here and learn.

Now, in your dorm room, this all sounds so smart.

Simple solutions are rarely both.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 5:50 pm
But you can’t say what you would cut. Interesting. Even from my “dorm room” I can see you have no solution. Passive to you is paying mandated bills on time. Extending the debt for something not required is dorm room talk. I learn so much…

Comment by Benfolds5 Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 6:10 pm
What do you expect when the governor of IL spends his time financially and verbally trashing Higher Ed.?

Comment by Mama Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 6:35 pm
===But you can’t say what you would cut.===

I stated, I would work the budget, which works include funding higher education.

I’ve even talked about a Lincoln University system.

Why won’t you answer… why must it be passive, why won’t Rauner go downstate and tell these towns he’s closing their universities… why must it be passive?

You know why… lol

===Passive to you is paying mandated bills on time.===

No, refusing to fund state universities with vetoes.

Are you from Illinois? This was in “all the papers”… you seem too dense not to grasp what Rauner did in the 99th GA.

===Extending the debt for something not required is dorm room talk. I learn so much…===

I don’t think you have a clue how budgets work either.

Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 6:38 pm
For whatever reason, Illinois has been under-funding Higher Education since George Ryan. Until that changes, our 3rd leading economic export after corn and soybeans, is high school graduates.

Comment by We Can Hope Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 6:46 pm
That is great news for the Chicago area…but…What about the rest of Illinios…?@Wordslinger

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:16 pm
–That is great news for the Chicago area…but…What about the rest of Illinios…?@Wordslinger–

I don’t understand your question, boo-boo. Want to make an effort? Or do you just want to feed your grievance?

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:18 pm
Illinois… I should have attended a Chicago school?

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:21 pm
I suppose feeding my grievance is the correct answer.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:23 pm
–I suppose feeding my grievance is the correct answer.–

I bet it works every time for you.

Maybe there’s some government entitlement program for the likes of you whiners who just can’t figure out nothing.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:27 pm
My intent was to point out that while some areas have flourished ,others have been devastated by Rauner’s failed administration.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:29 pm
I am disabled at level P2a…so I am thankful for entitlement programs in our State.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:34 pm
I hope my whining doesn’t annoy you…I’ll try to keep the whining low…like your opinion of what you mistakenly refer to as entitlements.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:38 pm
–My intent was to point out that while some areas have flourished ,others have been devastated by Rauner’s failed administration.–

Really? I might have brought that up a couple of times the last few years.

How about you?

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:39 pm
You find yourself in an indefensible position?

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:42 pm
–I hope my whining doesn’t annoy you…–

Nyet.

Dos vedanya, low-rent comrade.

Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:43 pm
I’ve been banned for years and have no idea why my comments are now being published…by the way…you are my favorite contributor to this amusing blog.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:45 pm
those are words you would not have the courage to say beyond the Internet…you can play with Russian words…I played with Russian convicts in Federal Prison…just saying …you are one hard fellow over The Internet.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:50 pm
I think hard hearted…you are.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:53 pm
Your silence is revealing.

Comment by Anonymous Monday, Jun 25, 18 @ 11:56 pm
Comrade?…no answer for BooBoo?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 12:00 am
I imagine the agonizing whining of refugee children also annoys you?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 12:03 am
I thought you would see it my way.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 12:08 am
P.T. I am banned?…or not?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 12:15 am
Stub this colloquy?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 12:19 am
Scrub this conversation and I’m tell you a secret.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 12:20 am
–I imagine the agonizing whining of refugee children also annoys you?–

I don’t consider the natural reaction of children being terrorized and abused by adults to be “whining.”

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 8:54 am
Western Illinois University BOT meets Thursday morning to approve another round of layoffs;

Rumor has it that the incoming Freshman class IS ONLY 900………

Comment by Doomsayer Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 2:50 pm
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 8:54 am:

–I imagine the agonizing whining of refugee children also annoys you?–

I don’t consider the natural reaction of children being terrorized and abused by adults to be “whining.”

What is your position on insulting and ridiculing the disabled?

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jun 26, 18 @ 3:18 pm