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Two ways of looking at it

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Illinois

* AP…

The former chief of staff to Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan who resigned amid sexual harassment allegations will collect $130,500 for unused vacation and sick time, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

A 40-year state employee, Timothy Mapes will be reimbursed for 91 vacation days and will get half-pay for 146 sick days for a payout of $130,516.28, according to records disclosed under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act.

Forced to step down June 6 from his $208,000-a-year job, Mapes has been House clerk as well as chief of staff to the powerful Madigan since 1992.

* Two very different reacts…

This benefit for Springfield insiders is a perfect example of how the real scandals often aren’t illegal, but legal. https://t.co/4HP1rFepyM

— Michael Hawthorne (@scribeguy) June 27, 2018

The "scandal" is that the guy went to work. On days he was entitled to take off he went to work instead and got a day's pay for it. That's the scandal.https://t.co/boJEmvId9v

— Scott Kennedy (@ScottTKennedy) June 27, 2018

I don’t personally support allowing workers, particularly highly paid top executives, to “bank” that much sick and vacation time.

Your thoughts?

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 10:57 am

Comments

I honestly thought this practice had stopped. Governor Quinn had a couple of high-level staffers do this and he raised holy hell about it.

Comment by Exclamation Point Deleted Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 10:59 am
Don’t support. My company allows us to rollover a certain amount but you eventually lose it.

Comment by Salvo Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:03 am
When I took off a few years ago for surgery, I had to use accumulated sick time in order to get paid for the six weeks I was off. What if I had to be off for 12 weeks, etc. That’s why I ‘bank’ my sick time.

Comment by Thoughts Matter Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:06 am
Some agencies cap vacation days, not sure how many agencies but I worked for one that did.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:10 am
The perk Mapes received (payout for accumulated vacation) is not available to “regular” state employees. From the (now expired) AFSCME Contract: ‘Vacation time shall not be accumulated for more than twenty-four (24) months after the end of the calendar year in which it is earned.” It took “special dispensation” from the Speaker to allow Mapes to cash in more time than allowed to anybody else.

Comment by LurkNoMore Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:11 am
My biggest beef is those unused sick days will be paid out in his final salary, not at the salary it was accrued. And who determined his salary, the state or the campaign?

He could donate his unused sick days into a sick day bank for women to use towards extra maternity leave or other things. Guessing this will not happen.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:12 am
Does anyone in the private sector have an unlimited bank? Besides for causing some accounting issues, general fraud prevention calls for people using their vacation (that is how they figured out that treasurer in Dixon was doing what she did).

Also when you get credit for your banked vacation days is it at the pay rate you were at when you earned them, or your pay when you leave?

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:12 am
Yep. The rules should be changed. Being able to accrue that much time should not be allowed. But I don’t see the need to get personal with it. Mapes didn’t make those rules. Mapes didn’t break those rules. He just took advantage of banking days like every state employee I know.

Comment by Ducky LaMoore Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:13 am
He earned. He followed the rules. Those rules, however, ought to be changed. For one thing, he took plenty of compensatory time for all of the political work he did. I realize he worked nearly 24/7 at times and may be entitled to comp time, but comp time is largely unheard of in the private sector.

Also, going to work when you’re sick is dumb and the policy should encourage employees to stay home and/or go to the doctor. Same with vacation, all work and no play makes Tim a dull boy.

Well, he was kind of dull regardless, so that last one may not work.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:13 am
Agree.

Comment by BlueDogDem Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:14 am
I think vacation days should be capped at three or four years. Sick days should not be capped. Capping sick days leads to people calling in sick when they are not.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:14 am
No, there definitely should be a cap. Then, use it or lose it. The occasional mental health day will do you wonders.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:14 am
When did he have time to work at DPI since he apparently was always working for the taxpayer funded job?

Comment by Not It Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:16 am
Most state agencies cap vacation at 2x annual amount with similar cap on sick days. Being a state worker not sure how he was able to pull that rabbit out of a hat…….

Comment by Silent Majority Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:17 am
vacation days are capped at either two or three years. As I recall, the payment for unused sick time program was eliminated around 1998, and when using sick time subsequent to that date you used a first in first out method so those old paid days were used up first. He was employed by state government for 40 years, and apparently was in good health so it isn’t surprising that he had a number of the old paid sick days remaining. There likely aren’t very many people left in government with his fact pattern.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:21 am
I thought the idea of allowing employees to cash out sick time (at less then full salary) was to discourage employees from using all their sick time, or using it all right before they quit/retire.

Comment by Claud Peppers Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:25 am
Government employees are nearly the only ones who get a sick time payout. Most financially well managed organizations have some kind of policy that does not allow for this kind windfall. It’s common practices to only keep vacation days banked that you would earn in a year and then it’s use it or lose it and to not get sick day payouts.

Comment by Ahoy! Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:26 am
He followed the rules so I have no complaints. Maybe in future cap vacation days. Sick days another matter. If caped people will call in sick. Should be allowed to bank

Comment by DuPage Saint Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:28 am
Hmm, this is a House of Representatives policy; Speaker, how about changing it.

Comment by the Edge Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:30 am
Rules should be changed to allow an unlimited number of vacation and sick days, just like all the high tech companies in Silicon Valley. This would eliminate any vacation/sick day payout when the employee leaves.

Comment by Angry Republican Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:32 am
Maybe my other post will eventually show up….

Once reason sick pay is allowed to accumulate over years is that we have to use it when we will be out for extended periods of time, such as maternity leave, surgery, or extended illnesses. We don’t use short term disability for that. IF we do not have sick time accumulated, we don’t get paid.
We can only accumulate a couple of years worth of vacation time.

when I worked in the private sector, we did not get a specific amount of sick time, we just got paid if we were sick like any other day. However, we got short term disability for things that lasted over 5 days. We also got written up if we used ‘too much’ sick time, and it affected our evaluations and salary increases.

Comment by thoughts matter Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:35 am
You cannot do this in the private sector because of ERISA; accruing that much time is an “unfunded liability” of the employer. That is why it is “use it or lose it”. Plus, if you earned time 10 years ago when making a lower salary, why should you be entitled to have it paid out at your final (higher) salary (further contributing to the pension crisis)? The federal government allows you to bank sick time but does not give you a payout if you leave.

Comment by Put the fun in unfunded Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:41 am
Mapes was grandfathered in to the old rules. For 20 or so years, State employees are limited to banking two years of vacation time and must use or lose anything over. There are no payouts for accrued sick time, although it does count toward retirement.

Comment by Another State Employee Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:43 am
As I understand it, Mapes was paid based on capped vacation days and sick days accrued in the 90’s that had cash value under a policy terminated in the 90s. (Someone tell me if I got that wrong)

With 20/20 hindsight, when that policy was changed, the House should have paid out at 1998 salary rates the value of those sick days instead of letting them roll into 2018 salary rates. Also, 90 days is a high cap on vacation days-6 weeks per year for three years? Finally, I don’t agree with senior management, as Mapes obviously was, getting comp time for any reason, AA never would have had to use a vacation day in his last 20 years of service if comp time had been available.

Redoing benefit time policies needs to go on Mr. Speaker’s to-do list.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:49 am
State employees can accumulate as many sick days as they want. There is no cap. However, only ones earned within a certain time period can be converted into cash (I don’t recall that time period). The rest can be used to “buy” more service time for pension purposes.

As for vacation days, state employees use to be allowed to accumulate as many as they wanted — no cap. Blago didn’t like that and put a cap in place. The most a state employee can carry over from one year to the next is the amount he earned the previous two years. The most vacation days an employee can earn is 25 days per year, which means the most he can carry over is 50 days. It would be possible for a person to leave state government with 75 vacation days on the book (if December 31 is his last day and he used no vacation days in his last year), but I am not sure how he could have more than that.

So, this begs the question. How did Mapes get to 91 vacation days on the book? Are the rules different for those in the legislative branch of government?

Comment by Nanker Phelge Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:52 am
The max carryover for executive branch employees is 35 days. After that it’s use it or lose it. Whiskey tango foxtrot 90 days? No. Just, no.

Comment by Nick Name Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:56 am
- Another State Employee -
There is pay out for sick days accumulated before 1989 at half pay
&
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:21 am:
The use of sick days before 1989 is first in, last out!
During the ERI of 2001 the SJR did a story of 40 state employees who got more the $50,000 ( I worked with 3 of them), but I don’t remember anyone getting $130,000.

Comment by WhoKnew Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:56 am
Considering the situation shouldn’t Mapes suffer some consequence for his actions? Yes he resigned but basically was fired. This payout should be forfeited.

Comment by TAXPAYER Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:58 am
In my current agency we can carry over (or “bank”) two years worth of vacation time and unlimited sick time. However, at an agency I worked for in the past which has stricter rules, use of sick time was discouraged. If you called in sick too often management put you on proof status, which meant that every singe time you called in sick you were required to bring in a note from the doctor the next day. You were kept on proof status until you re-accumulated a certain amount of sick time.

Comment by workerbee Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 11:58 am
Been awhile, it was in the 1990’s when they cut off the paid sick time being able to aquire. Yes, we got 1/2 pay for unused sick days earned up until such and such a date. State has been trying to get rid of that for years and/or force usage of earlier time from books first before current earned time.

I could carry two years vacation time which then became take it or loose it (by end of calendar year). Vacation at exit was paid full pay.

Pretty sure it’s all laid out in the Master contract for my peon position. Yes, I went out with a ‘tiny’ amount compared to Mr. Mapes. But then after 36 years as an employee I finished out making no where near his wages.

The hardest part upon retiring was going from last pay check to when pay out came and pension started. It was 6 to eight weeks. May not sound ‘rough’ to those making much larger wages, but yeah, the checkbook got fairly low during that wait. Big different for employees making in the $50,000’s and one making four times that, or even double. So no, no easy street here I come for me. I am SERS retiree.

Mr. Mapes gets his $130,000 before taxes and little me got my like $15,000-ish.

Comment by Cindy Lou Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 12:04 pm
=Does anyone in the private sector have an unlimited bank?=
They have more.
Many private sector senior employees get multi-million dollar golden parachutes even after being forced out. Especially the ones leading the media to complain about public sector pay and benefits.

Senior employee who worked many long days, cancelled vacations, worked weekends and holidays over 40 years gets a one-time payout.
Why is this even news? - Because millionaire media owners and their followers say it is. - Sheesh.

Comment by Fantasy Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 12:23 pm
=Government employees are nearly the only ones who get a sick time payout. Most financially well managed organizations have some kind of policy that does not allow for this kind windfall.=

Yeah - you and your overlords get multi-million dollar golden parachutes after running a company inot the ground.

Comment by Fantasy Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 12:25 pm
AA is correct that the rules were changed and perhaps should be modified again. AA brilliantly noted how the rule change should have been executed, i.e. payout the outstanding time owed at the lower salary level in effect at the time of the rule modification.

Mapes played by the rules in place and is entitled to be paid.

Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 12:39 pm
The way the state handles time off is archaic and clumsy. Way too many categories of time and guidelines for using it. We should get 1 type of time called Paid Time Off and be able to use it as we see fit. Double the number of the days you accrue in one year should be the maximum you could have banked at any one time. Many large companies now use this simple system. It reduces payouts like the one described here and gives employees much more flexibility in using their hard earned time off.

Comment by Captain Obvious Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 12:44 pm
The law is the law. He earned it so he is entitled to it. However, his position allowed him to authorize his own carryover that was not extended to all employees. He was also in a position to award himself compensation days for overtime during session. The comp time award allowed him bank vacation and sick.

Comment by Fiscal Dog Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 1:16 pm
the worker bees never get that much time to cash out on because our timekeepers are up our butts. The timekeepers for the executive levels are for the most party non existent and when a high level takes a sick day, its pretty much unspoken comp time because they work 24/7.

Comment by Former State Employee 2 Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 1:27 pm
Mapes earned every bit of it.

Comment by flea Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 1:28 pm
This policy is extremely abused by state employees who do not report to a headquarters or whose job has a lot of reasons for being “out in the field.” Need a haircut? Don’t take benefit time to do so, just be out in the field. Have a doctor’s appointment? Be out in the field. Need to attend a child’s activity? You got it — out in the field. I think if a study was done on the big payouts it would be found that every employee who “saved” so much time were not assigned to a position where others could keep track of their whereabouts. Therefore, they would be guilty of theft of state time, and upon retirement, rewarded for such.

Comment by Gone, but not forgotten Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 1:48 pm
Mapes earned and is entitled to this. When I worked at the state house I would see Tim leaving the building at 2am.

When Madigan was in town he would leave late also. Dedicated public servants.

Comment by Claud Peppers Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 1:48 pm
Gone but not forgotten.

I heard about an section in an agency where the time keeper was so lazy she never entered the employees time for over two years.

Comment by Claud Peppers Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 1:51 pm
Some of the payouts to former officials have bordered upon being scandalous. Witness the much maligned Wayne Watson of the City Colleges of Chicago and Chicago State University being paid lavish benefits while leaving lawsuits in his wake.

As to Mapes, I was surprised how often this former House Clerk was pulling nominating petitions for his boss. I thought that post ought to have been more neutral.

Comment by Practical Politics Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 3:28 pm
That is another example of poor fiscal management. My old company used to have no caps until we got a new CFO who refused to carry that much debt on our books. So payouts and caps were instituted. IL is just a fiscal mess

Comment by payouts Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 4:02 pm
When state workers got to bank sick time (paid out a half day for each day banked) they did not have maternity or paternity leave.

Comment by gdubya Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 4:19 pm
Federal employees can carry over or “bank” sick leave but thy don’t get paid for it when they retire. They can use it to extend their time-in-service calculation for pension purposes. This far less than getting paid 100% in a lump sum.

I’ve never known a federal retiree to have more than two or three months accumulated sick leave when they leave. Most have used it for major illnesses. And, yes, others just used it up calling in sick before they retired which is a form of 100% payment, but illegal. Management usually tolerates a bit of that but major usage requires medical documentation.

Vacation is paid out 100%, but after all, it was earned. I can’t recall if there is a limit to carry over of vacation. I never knew anyone that had more than a few months. Most people are desperate to get away from the plant or office (I’ve worked in both, white collar and blue).

Comment by Streamwood Retiree Wednesday, Jun 27, 18 @ 4:57 pm
It’s not wrong or unethical because that $130,500 would have been spent on vacatuon days over decades. However as others pointed outhe should have used the vacation days. Our leisure time is where we hone our social skills. Maybe if Tim went to that neighborhood barbeque a long time ago he would have learned that jokes about pink bras aren’t going to be well received.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 8:04 am

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