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Rauner campaign continues victory lap

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* Rauner campaign…

What They’re Saying: Governor Rauner’s “Major Victory” in Janus v. AFSCME

Yesterday, the Supreme Court ruled in Janus v. AFSCME to restore free speech rights of government workers. Governor Rauner first initiated the case and has fought for freedom of speech from the moment he was sworn in to office.

Take a look at what they’re saying about Governor Rauner’s victory:

Chicago Tribune:
“In a case with roots in Rauner’s first weeks in office, the court ruled that public workers shouldn’t have to pay fees to a union they don’t want to join.

…Challenging the fees was one of Rauner’s first acts when he took office in 2015. He issued an executive order giving state workers who don’t want to pay permission not to, and he later instructed state agencies to stop collecting the fees on behalf of public employee unions. He also preemptively filed a federal lawsuit seeking to have the matter escalated to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Rauner has used the Janus lawsuit to make the case to voters that he should be reelected to a second term, pointing to it as an accomplishment from his time in office and promising that once the fees are overturned, it will result in ‘transformative change’ for taxpayers.

….You look at how we’re going to transform politics in Illinois, across America, when we win the federal lawsuit against AFSCME that I started,’ Rauner said. ‘That’s transformative. You think that Republicans across Illinois, across America, aren’t excited about how that will change the balance of power between taxpayers and special interest groups inside government?’”

CBS 2 Chicago:
“The 5-4 ruling in Janus vs. AFSCME is a win for Gov. Bruce Rauner, who has fought to weaken labor unions, and once was a plaintiff in the case.”

Chicago Tribune Editorial:
“If government workers don’t have to contribute, maybe this begins a reckoning for the political class of Illinois. We’re not great fans of that symbiosis between one party and the public’s workforce. Unions have a vested interest in the taxing-and-spending status quo in Illinois, which in fiscal terms is a disaster. Democrats have been too happy to go along for the ride, saddling taxpayers with enormous public debts. The results for this state and its economy are political gridlock and disappointment: Illinois has weak job growth, a bleak credit rating and a $130 billion hole in the state’s pension funds. Those are largely byproducts of the hand-holding between unions and Dems.”

WBEZ:
“Rauner, who was in Washington, D.C., praised Wednesday’s decision. ‘For decades, Illinois workers have been forced to pay partial union dues against their will,’ Rauner said in a statement. ‘The practice infringed on the constitutional rights of public sector workers who were asked to give up their First Amendment rights as a condition of employment. This decision fairly reinstates those rights.’”

Grover Norquist, Americans for Tax Reform:
“The ‘Janus’ SCOTUS Case was at the start —AFSCME vs Rauner.
Rauner will soon have changed the world for the better more than most governors in US history ever have”

Andrew Nelms, Americans For Prosperity Illinois State Director:
“This decision is a huge victory for workers not just in Illinois but across the country. Forcing public workers to fund political activity to keep a job and support their family is a violation of the Constitution. This case vindicates our activists who have long asserted that forcing workers to fund political activity without their consent was a violation of the fundamental and unassailable right to free speech.”

ABC News:
“The Supreme Court has ruled in favor of public employees’ First Amendment rights to decline to pay union dues, marking a potential blow to the funding for influential unions of public employees.

The Court found that union fees violate the free speech rights of nonmembers by compelling them to subsidize private speech on public matters, even if they disagree with the message.”

Belleville News-Democrat:
“The U.S. Supreme Court has decided that a Springfield man does not have to belong to a union, in a case that could have far-reaching implications for workers across the country.”

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:28 am

Comments

Everyone defending right of workers should allow campaign employees to unionize.

Comment by Logical conclusion Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:37 am
“….to fund political activity without their consent is a violation of the fundamental and unassailable right to free speech.”

I couldn’t agree with Americans for Prosperity more as Corporations are violating citizens First Amendment rights to free speech!

Comment by Mike Cirrincione Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:38 am
So how long before the lawsuit is filed to challenge fair share fees in the private sector unions?

How long before they look to attack other revenue streams that are put into collective bargaining contracts that end up going for things other than contract enforcement, negotiations, representation?

And one of the overlooked parts of the decision left a vary big hole that unions can drive a D8 through if they wish:

“In any event, whatever unwanted burden is imposed by the representation of nonmembers in disciplinary matters can be eliminated “through means significantly less restrictive of associational freedoms” than the imposition of agency fees. Harris, 573 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 30) (internal quotation marks omitted). Individual nonmembers could be required to pay for that service or could be denied union representation altogether.”

Comment by Todd Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:40 am
He should enjoy his victory lap, because it’s the last one he’s going to have as a Public Official. November is going to be a tough month for him.

Comment by DaleyMail Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:41 am
Not to get technical, but wasn’t Rauner removed as a plaintiff because he lacked standing? I know he has been grandstanding on the issue, but is it really his “victory”?

Comment by Whatever Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:42 am
==November is going to be a tough month for him.==

Nah. He got his white whale. He’ll happily move to Italy if he loses.

Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:45 am
Is this a winner, outside the Rupert Pupkin cable wannabe yakkers down in momma’s basement like Kass and Katrina?

This gets Rauner closer to the 2 million votes he’ll need to win? Real front of mind issue? I doubt it.

Unions might be getting hosed, but there’s a lot of that going around these days. Everybody’s got problems. How does this “win” make anyone think Rauner is all dreamy now?

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:45 am
Bruce is so funny. He thinks he is gonna win.

Comment by Pookey Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:45 am
The mythology… aided by the media coverage… that “lazily” (which is grossly unfair for me to even type, but… ) that the headlines give Rauner his mythology, but sometimes later in the reporting it’s revealed Rauner had no standing.

What should infuriate Democrats and the bought Raunerites… the legacy, the phony mythology Rauner now has… all the purposeful damage… be it the debt Rauner and Raunerites cheered, the purposeful crippling of higher ed, (aided by those like Mr. Rose and Mr. Barickman in the 99th GA) the crumbling of social services, unless the Pritzker family helps your social service like they did Diana Rauner’s…

… all those, Democrats and Raunerites… in the end… all that posturin’… and fightin’… and hangin’ in there with Bruce… or fighting, holding Rauner accountable… taking “a” and “the” fight to Rauner… look at this coverage. It doesn’t matter. Everyone got played by Bruce and Diana Rauner.

For a legacy. A mythology that cements Rauner as a hero in destroying public sector unions, built on wet sand that the coverage of Janus hardens just enough to make the mythology seem real, and deem Rauner a hero.

If you’re a Raunerite, a downstate Raunerite, a Raunerite who voted against your district, constituents, region… feel better? Was it worth it? What did YOU get? What did your district, your region, what was gained? Easy. Rauner got his destruction and legacy, you got played. Congratulations.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:46 am
=because it’s the last one he’s going to have=

Unless the courts let him implement his contract terms before his term ends and AFSCME is foolish enough to strike (they are). Then he really will be Scott Walker on super steroids.

Comment by Robert the 1st Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:46 am
==Illinois has weak job growth, a bleak credit rating and a $130 billion hole in the state’s pension funds. Those are largely byproducts of the hand-holding between unions and Dems.==

So the Tribune is blaming all of the woes in Illinois on the unions? Please.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:47 am
Bruce Rauner spends tens of millions of dollars to buy a political party to do his will. It worked for a while, until his damage could no longer be endured. He had to sign a tax increase that he tacitly supported, and lately a budget that includes the tax increase.

Rauner’s buying a political party has been horrible for taxpayers and state residents—far worse than unions, because of the singlehanded damage.

Bruce Rauner is the ultimate hypocrite when it comes to blaming his opponents. If what unions bargain for was so bad, the uber-left, coastal limousine liberal would have not profited off of it for decades. He says he got rich from public employee pensions. Using his own words/thinking, he’s a corrupt insider who used and broke the system for his own benefit.

Few or no unionized public workers have ever profited from the “corrupt system” like Bruce Rauner.

Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:47 am
Rauner probably will not win in November, but government unions lost a big one.

Comment by Steve Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:48 am
Belleville News-Democrat:
“The U.S. Supreme Court has decided that a Springfield man does not have to belong to a union, in a case that could have far-reaching implications for workers across the country.”

Nobody is required to belong to a union, you have a choice, either join or don’t. If you don’t then a fair share requirement is imposed, so you can enjoy all the benefits the union negotiated for ALL the workers.

Comment by Honeybadger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:49 am
Am I the only one wondering how ticking off and unifying the other side in a predominately blue state just a few months before an election is worthy of “taking a victory lap”? How exactly does this lead to a path to victory for Rauner and downstate Republicans in November?

Comment by Been there, done that Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:51 am
—–blaming all of the woes in Illinois on the unions? Please.—–

Pretty interesting comparison of Illinois teacher pensions vs. every other state.

https://www.teacherpensions.org/blog/what-average-teacher-pension-my-state

Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:54 am
“Am I the only one wondering how ticking off and unifying the other side in a predominately blue state just a few months before an election is worthy of “taking a victory lap”? How exactly does this lead to a path to victory for Rauner and downstate Republicans in November?”

All of this is just a big reminder of the only thing that Rauner is an ideologue about - unions are awful. Whether or not this is a winning political issue is not the point for him. He struck a blow to the unions. That in and of itself makes him very happy, regardless of the political consequences.

Comment by Montrose Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:56 am
===How does this “win” make anyone think Rauner is all dreamy now?===

===November is going to be a tough month for him.===

===Rauner probably will not win in November===

Janus was about the Return on Investment and a mythology of a win at the cost of “today” of $112 million…

Rauner, both Rauners, got what they needed.

Like Daisy and Tom Buchanan, Bruce and Diana destroy to get outcomes they deem worthy of them, and their own legacies on the Winnetka Cocktail Party circuit.

Bruce may or may not think this helps in a campaign, but without question it helps with what Bruce wants remembered of his time as governor… glossing over the damage as inconsequential… because it never hurt him.

Respectfully, all.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 9:58 am
Some short memories among the Tribsters and others. Yes, public sector unions have mostly supported Dems, but AFSCME, IEA, and FOP in particular have supported plenty of Republicans in Illinois. The arrival of Bruce Rauner’s well financed anti-labor hammer turned public sector unions into an almost exclusively partisan force. Earlier this decade AFSCME and the teachers were boycotting Madigan’s candidates. Bruce’s money made things politically binary.

Comment by Roman Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:01 am
==Pretty interesting comparison of Illinois teacher pensions vs. every other state.==

Seems to me you’re suggesting a $46,000 avg pension is somehow a bad thing.

Anyone who tries to suggest that all of our woes are the fault of the union aren’t being serious in their arguments. They are being propagandists.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:02 am
==Is this a winner, outside the Rupert Pupkin cable wannabe yakkers down in momma’s basement like Kass and Katrina?==

I have my doubts, too, that most voters will care (especially now that Kennedy retiring is gonna step on all the free media), but running a commercial with him celebrating on the steps of the Supreme Court can’t hurt.

Comment by Arsenal Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:08 am
The Trib calling public service unions the reason why Illinois is a mess is a joke. If anyone in this state deserves blame for the mess it’s in, it’s the Trib Ed Board—who for decades, has been calling for tax cuts while never ever calling for cuts to services. They’ve made it so difficult to pass tax cuts in Illinois, that the state only went further and further into debt. They’ve essentially called for the state to default on it’s bills/debts as any proposal to raise revenue has been treated as if it will lead to the deaths of millions of people. They’ve repeatedly compared Illinois to Greece and their hyperbolic editorials about the state of Illinois read more like fiction than actual, you know, news. Go move to Indiana and leave cleaning up this mess to the professionals.

Comment by From the 'Dale to HP Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:09 am
Rauner once again winning media coverage. Feels good to be on the right side of history.

Comment by Ole General Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:10 am
–So the Tribune is blaming all of the woes in Illinois on the unions? –

They’re one-trick ponies. Simple-minded, performing the same stunt, day after day.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:11 am
As the old labor song goes (Pete Seeger)
“Which side are you on?”
You are either with labor who fights to squeeze the best wages and benefits out of the employer for the worker.
Or
You are on the side of the oligarchs and big corporations trying to squeeze profits out of worker by lowering wages and benefits.

That’s the choice. Workers or oligarchs
Where unions are weak, wages are weak
Where oligarchs are strong, only the privileged few do well.

I fight for workers
There’s no way you can prove otherwise.
Those who fight against unions fight for Mammon.
I won’t bow or kneel before a false God

Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:16 am
===Rauner once again winning media coverage. Feels good to be on the right side of history.===

Propaganda and a mythology is never the right side of history.

The winning side does get the luxury to write their own history, but winning and being right can also be far from being true, together.

If Rauner were to lose in November, still not a solid outcome, your take is that what Rauner wants as his phony legacy, a mythological farce that Rauner and at times the coverage conveniently ignore that Rauner had no standing, but runs the victory lap all the same.

You can win the messaging, the coverage, the overall impression of what happened, but that doesn’t always mean that is on the right side of history.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:16 am
==Feels good to be on the right side of history.==

I think it’s sad that anyone would “feel good” about any of this. I think it says a lot about someone’s life when they are giddy about the woes of somebody elses.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:20 am
–Anyone who tries to suggest that all of our woes are the fault of the union aren’t being serious in their arguments. They are being propagandists.—

Anyone who suggests that Illinois pensions are richer than most other states are correct. Illinois teacher pensions are higher than New York and California. In fact, it appears that they are higher than every other state than Ohio.

Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:22 am
My $.02: When union workers walk by, our administrators do not shake in their shoes. The rank and file enjoy some non-economic benefits while earning pay that’s mediocre at best. No one drives gold-plated Cadillacs and everyone is stuck with the same iffy health insurance. The one thing the unions do have though is legal representation that fights the high-level attacks with some success.

Comment by Ed Higher Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:23 am
According to this article, Illinois has 19,481 public pensions that are over $100,000 annually.

That is the problem in Illinois.

https://prairiestatewire.com/stories/511469273-tef-nearly-20-000-former-public-employees-receiving-at-least-100-000-in-pension-payouts-annually

Comment by Birdseed Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:23 am
Downstate:

Are you seriously suggesting that somehow $46,000 is a bad thing? Please tell me you aren’t suggesting that.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:26 am
==That is the problem in Illinois.==

That is the problem? So you, like the Tribune, think that unions are the cause of all of our woes?

We sure have a lot of propaganda peddlers.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:28 am
Poking the bear

Comment by Boone's is Back Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:35 am
What are these whiners going to blame now that the unions have been dealt with? What will be the cause of all of our problems next?

Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:36 am
Demo, Illinois has one of the highest teacher pensions in the nation according to that chart.

Taxpayers foot the bill for that tab.

What is it that you are missing?

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:37 am
- Those who fight against unions fight for Mammon.
I won’t bow or kneel before a false God -

So let me get this right, you believe that the Justices and supporters of this bill worship a demon?

And that you represent God in this discussion? Love to have you talk to some of my Ph.D. friends at Moody to get their view on the matter.

Comment by Ole General Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:39 am
–Feels good to be on the right side of history.–

LOL, is this the first time you’ve felt this way?

I’m glad it was Bruce, for you.

I guess.

Maybe it was time to settle…

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:40 am
As far pensions go, if I make it to 20 years service, as a a tier II employee, I’ll retire to a pension below the current poverty level approx 22k a year.
I too have a problem with the 100k+ pensions of university doctors, judges and other highly compensated officials.
Just remember when you attack pensions
You’re trying to take away the small pension that I will get
It’s all I will have in retirement
You are taking that away from workers
Loyal, dedicated, passionate workers
Just like me

Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:41 am
—Are you seriously suggesting that somehow $46,000 is a bad thing? Please tell me you aren’t suggesting that.—–

When compared to nearly every other state in the union, particularly California and New York, our pensions are “rich” or expensive, depending on your perspective.

Comment by Downstate Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:45 am
===What They’re Saying: Governor Rauner’s “Major Victory” in Janus v. AFSCME

Yesterday, the Supreme Court ruled in Janus v. AFSCME to restore free speech rights of government workers. Governor Rauner first initiated the case and has fought for freedom of speech from the moment he was sworn in to office.

Take a look at what they’re saying about Governor Rauner’s victory:===

Note: It was ruled that Bruce Rauner had no standing in court. The reason it’s called Janus and not Rauner is based on the factual element missing. Rauner had no legal standing, but will try to glom on even as the courts found Rauner lacking in this lawsuit.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:47 am
==Demo, Illinois has one of the highest teacher pensions in the nation according to that chart==
==When compared to nearly every other state in the union, particularly California and New York, our pensions are “rich” or expensive, depending on your perspective. ==

Depends on whether teachers in those states get Social security on top of their pension (Illinois teachers do not - look it up). Depends on whether retired teachers in those states pay hundreds of dollars monthly for their dependents health insurance (I don’t know exactly what Illinois teachers pay for dependents, but they often post that it is several hundred dollars thru TRIP, which is different than what state retirees pay).

Comment by thoughts matter Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:51 am
Very odd sort of “victory” for those that normally decry running to the courts (judicial activism). Totally agree w 47th Ward. Bruce and GOP have one less thing to blame for their failures.

Now if Madigan suddenly retired, Rauner couldnt play victim anymore!

Comment by low level Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:51 am
=–Anyone who tries to suggest that all of our woes are the fault of the union aren’t being serious in their arguments. They are being propagandists.—

Anyone who suggests that Illinois pensions are richer than most other states are correct. Illinois teacher pensions are higher than New York and California. In fact, it appears that they are higher than every other state than Ohio.=

And that tells you exactly what?

Your analysis is sadly deficient.

So tell me- which states allow teachers to participate in social security? That matters-do I need to explain why?

What is the employees contribution rate for the other states? IIRC Wisconsin (for example) is 5% and was 0% for many years.

How many years for vesting and full retirement?

The list goes on and analysis is only meaningful if you know those (and other) key facts.

And why is it bad to have a reasonable pension versus living in abject poverty? This is earned money by taxpayers (although not when they get their pensions) after 35 plus years of service. $46,000 does not go that far and they still have to pay for health care which is getting expensive if you have not notices.

Nice drive by.

Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:51 am
– Love to have you talk to some of my Ph.D. friends at Moody to get their view on the matter.–

That sounds very impressive. Do they have inside dope or something? Is that how it’s supposed to work?

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:52 am
Two of the caveats posted in that teacher pension state by state comparison:

2. Of the teachers who do qualify for benefits, their benefits will vary widely. The statistical average, or mean, hides the fact that only a small percentage of incoming teachers will receive a full career pension at retirement, while many, many more get only a small amount. Also, teachers in 15 states aren’t covered by Social Security; pensions in these states tend to be larger to make up for this fact.

3. These amounts only tell us what a teacher earns at retirement—not what she contributed to her state or local system. The averages include many teachers who qualify for some pension, but those pensions may be worth less than the value of the teacher’s own contributions.

Comment by thoughts matter Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:54 am
==Bruce is so funny. He thinks he is gonna win==

He already won. Winning re-election in Nov., if he could pull it off, would just be double-chocolate.

Now, if only the Trial Lawyers could take a beating, all the better. Straighten out the inequities in Workman’s comp, make the election maps non-partisan, and get rid of Machine politics with the attendant patronage workforce, and you’d have a good start in fixing what’s wrong with Illinois. Maybe yesterday’s decision was the foot-in-the-door to start the other dominoes falling, one can only hope. The Tribune’s take is correct - although the incestuous relationship between the public sector unions and the Dem’s aren’t the “whole” problem, it’s a significant enough one that the Trib was justified in hammering on it “daily”. If you’ve got a broken bone in your foot, you can be sure you’re going to mention it in every conversation you have until it gets fixed. This is obviously a minority opinion on Cap Fax, but not so much at the dinner tables and water-coolers across the state. And that’s why JB had better not take too many naps between now and November.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:55 am
State employees pay for dependent health insurance and it should be several hundred dollars

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:55 am
===“….to fund political activity without their consent is a violation of the fundamental and unassailable right to free speech.”===

It is a violation of federal law for unions to use dues or fair share fees to fund political activity. No one’s free speech was violated. Get your facts right.

Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:01 am
I find it disgusting and offensive that those of us who aren’t inclined to march in lockstep with the likes of afscme and seiu are deemed “on the wrong side of God.” You have worn out your welcome with me.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:01 am
Downstate, show your work. If you want to compare pensions you can’t just compare the annual payout, you have to look at what was paid in also. My wife is a tier 1 teacher who will work for 35 years before she retires and for 35 years her contributions and the interest on those contributions will accumulate which means that “taxpayers” only pay a portion of her eventual pension. How do the employee contributions in Illinois compare to other states?

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:01 am
Umm, what did Rauner have to do with any of this?

Union skeptics in IL should be mailing their love letters to Mitch McConnell.

If Rauner wants to take a victory lap for essentially doing nothing, he’s only further cementing his similarity to Donald Trump.

Comment by ZC Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:02 am
==Go move to Indiana and leave cleaning up this mess to the professionals==

You mean the professionals who dug this 130 billion dollar (minimum) hole to begin with? Thanks but no thanks. At least in Greece they’ve got nice weather to distract them from the misery of their financial decision.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:02 am
Don’t have any problems with Illinois pensions another than the 3% COLA.

Comment by Harpy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:04 am
There was a chart published in the last year or so and it showed contributions made by state employees and what they were projected to receive. IIRC, the entire contributions made were returned within a couple of years and the rest was gravy, especially considering the 3% compounded annual addition.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:05 am
Illinois teachers are not in the Social Security program but those from Indiana and other states are and that should be taken into account. Non SS states often require higher contributions to go toward the pension which is the only source of retirement income in those states. Just looking at pension benefit and not contribution percentage and whether it is coordinated with Social Security is very misleading.

Comment by Retired and happy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:06 am
That pension chart is misleading for another reason. It shows the average/median pension of new entrants, not all retirees. Our teacher population works longer than the national average, about 29 years to 26 iirc. Our numbers also benefit from the statewide effort to improve teacher salaries over the past 10-15 years-can’t have one without the other. The pension systems that are most like Illinois’ TRS in plan design and demographics include Ohio STRS and Missouri TRS; their numbers are close to ours. Indiana’s TRF and Wisconsin BoR, not so much, and the numbers bear out the differences.

This chart simply can’t be used to draw useful conclusions about differences in teachers’ pensions. Oh, and the data’s 2-3 years old.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:13 am
The SS argument is a total red herring - it pre-supposes that state employees are somehow entitled to a certain standard of living in retirement. Millions of Illinois workers are contract or self employed and pay both parts of SS. If any individual feels like the pension or 401(K) they participate in is insufficient to retire on, they should voluntarily save more in a 457, or IRA. It is called individual responsibility.

Comment by Texas Red Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:14 am
Birds of a feather. aka hypocrite. Free market principle governor and union members who don’t 100% buy/use union made.

Comment by BlueDogDem Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:15 am
==“This is obviously a minority opinion on Cap Fax, but not so much at the dinner tables and water-coolers across the state.“==

Could you please clarify exactly what is the minority opinion here but is talked about at length at water coolers across the state?

Comment by low level Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:16 am
*might add - many of the water coolers are gone thanks to budget cuts.

Comment by low level Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:17 am
Heard the interview he flat out lied. When he talked about Blago he made it seems as he went around telling all the employees join the union or get no raise. That is not what happened. Not one of those governors have provided a raise to nonunion employees since Blago. Think about the inflation over all those years.Janus on the other hand received raises did he say no to them? It is such B.S. he actually said he could negotiate a better raise for himself then the union, delusional just ask any long-term SPSA nonunion, non-olitical employees. A person who refuses to pay the 20 bucks for the destruction of the union should realize what was hard fought and won can be taken away. That person takes the bread out of their fellow coworkers kids mouth shame on them.

Comment by Annoyance Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:18 am
==“This is obviously a minority opinion on Cap Fax, but not so much at the dinner tables and water-coolers across the state.“==

Maybe some day you will have the confidence in your own opinions that you won’t need the crutch of claiming that you speak for others.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:21 am
Anon 11:05, that mythical chart is total nonsense. Employees should be credited with at least a one to one State match of their contributions, just like in most 401ks. More importantly, the total contributions from an employee and his/her employer need to be converted into an annuity at the pension system’s investment earnings assumption rate; just like a pension effectively does with contributions over a member’s career.

I made a spreadsheet using my own contributions, State match, and 8.5% return (as it was when I retired) and I had over 25 years of payments, with the AAI, before I ran out.

You know the old saying, figures don’t lie.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:23 am
Anonymous @ 10:37 Teachers also pay into that pension their entire working lives—and teachers are taxpayers, too. By your logic, I also help “foot the bill” for your Social Security, and vice versa. What’s your point? Nobody stole your cheese.

Comment by Crispy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:25 am
===Millions of Illinois workers are contract or self employed and pay both parts of SS. If any individual feels like the pension or 401(K) they participate in is insufficient to retire on, they should voluntarily save more in a 457, or IRA.===

They can also freely choose to be a teacher, work for a muni, the state, take a job in the public sector, and know of the pension aspects of that position, if offered.

Yep. Lots of choices.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:25 am
==So let me get this right, you believe that the Justices and supporters of this bill worship a demon?==

Ole General - I’m not sure what that comment was supposed to mean, but I would say that it is an odd sight to see you and several others cheering for something that will end up making tens of thousands of middle class folks poorer. I, for one, would very much be interested in talking with your doctor friends about the psychology of someone who finds happiness in the material harm of others who are most likely not as fortunate as you are.

Or, if you prefer to stay in the sphere of religion, I would be interested in speaking to the pastors or your churches. Do your churches preach the prosperity gospel, where those with more money are by definition more righteous than those with less money? My church teaches that we shouldn’t hope for ill to befall others lest it also fall upon us, but perhaps that kind of gospel is going by the wayside in these days of trump?

We would very much appreciate it if you could arrange to have either group of folks stop by Capfax sometime, we have many questions that we would like to ask.

Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:27 am
Moody? Really? No problem. I got my theological training from University of Chicago. I would welcome that. How about you start Ole General by reading James, specifically James 5:4.
Then Luke 13:26
Don’t be a servant of Mammon Ole General
Yesterday’s decision had everything to do with destroying unions in order to pave the way for corporate profit.
Look at who benefits from that…..
I believe that Christ is on the side of the worker and unions.
So does Pope Francis by the way

Oh and Arthur Anderson I’m excited to wear out your welcome
I didn’t want it in the first place.

Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:32 am
Much ado about nothing. The public sector unions and their favored pols will figure out a workaround. And I suspect that opt outs will find that their decision is publicized, and things will get uncomfortable on the job.
Problem solved. Move on.

Comment by Cook County Commoner Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:34 am
==What is it that you are missing?==

That anyone believes $46,000 is somehow out of line. That’s what I’m missing. What exactly is the number we should be aspiring to?

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:38 am
==it pre-supposes that state employees are somehow entitled to a certain standard of living in retirement.==

Where is that argument being made?

== Millions of Illinois workers are contract or self employed and pay both parts of SS. ==

Did someone force them to be on contract or be self employed? There seems to be an argument by some of you that if someone else doesn’t get it then it isn’t fair and that it should be taken away. That’s a childish argument.

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:44 am
Pope Francis, July 2017- “In our advanced capitalist societies, the union risks losing its prophetic nature and becoming too similar to the institutions and powers that it should instead criticize.”

Love this Pope.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:49 am
Demo, what is the average total teacher contribution at the time of retirement?

How does the $46K compare to other states?

True or false, the taxpayers fund it thru ever growing real estate taxes, which are nearly the highest in the nation?

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 11:53 am
Ironic on how before labor unions were legalized and tamed, the IWW was barred from public speaking in many western towns. So they would put out a call to supporters to go to a particular city for “Fights for Free Speech”. One after another they would get up on soapbox or whatever and speak about working conditions. One after another they would be arrested until the town jail was full. The authorities would turn fire hoses, dogs, and clubs on the Wobblies, but they would keep right on singing about the new world that was coming. That world came out of the depression and WW2 some 40 years later. I doubt Bruce Rauner wants to deal with a “militant church of labor” with intrinsically hostile masses that have little or nothing to lose. Guys like Rauner & Trump will turn Nick Hanauer’s dire predictions about “pitch forks & torches” into realities eventually I’m afraid.

Comment by James Knell Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 12:03 pm
Crispy, roughly 58%-63% of a sky high real estate tax bill goes to school districts.

My social security amount is predicated on the years that I work and how much I earn, it has nothing to do with you.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 12:03 pm
Anon 11:53. False, Real estate taxes do not fund teacher pensions. Downstate…subtracting 16,800 average ss from 46,000: 29000, makes Illinois in a tie for 16th, it is 16th in percapita income, what a coincidence.

Comment by wondering Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 12:13 pm
For those of you stuck on the $46k average, which is below the median income for our state, what number do you think is a fair retirement compensation for something be who has dedicated their lives to educating the next generation? Especially considering that in our state they are not able to draw social security. $15k? $20k? How far below the poverty line would they need to be for you to feel they are fairly compensated for their life’s work?

Comment by Fixer Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 12:17 pm
=According to this article, Illinois has 19,481 public pensions that are over $100,000 annually.

That is the problem in Illinois.=

The actual problem is income inequality.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/02/349863761/40-years-of-income-inequality-in-america-in-graphs

Bruce Rauner and billionaire friends have become expert in convincing middle income and even low income Americans to fight wit one another over the value of public service and taxation. They stir the pot because, in their heads, they should pay no taxes as they do not think they benefit from public services.

Their lack or respect and value for what we do has turned into flashy ads and bought and paid for pols who can only parrot false talking points.

How many of these billionaires and the CEO class have bankrupted companies and stollen the investments of middle class people while further enriching themselves? Enron was not even the tip of the iceberg.

Most of us cannot build libraries at ivy league schools as monuments to ourselves, we have to use the public library. The irony is that rural America seems to disdain public services the most and carry the flag for the wealthy (based on political maps) while needing services the most. To be fair, the wealthy Democrats are not much better.

Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 12:44 pm
Honeybear - Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 10:41 am:

===As far pensions go, if I make it to 20 years service, as a a tier II employee, I’ll retire to a pension below the current poverty level approx 22k a year.

Did you forget about your Social Security check of approx. $24,000?

Comment by anan Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:12 pm
Interesting thread. If a person can speak for God it seems that another person should be able to speak about what they hear around the water cooler, no?

Comment by Responsa Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:12 pm
James Knell- I use religious language very intentionally. That’s exactly where I’m headed. Militancy

Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:14 pm
Texas Red at 11:14. Yes, I and other State Employees have excercised that individual responsibility and saved in a 457 plan based on projected income from a pension fund that we also deligently contributed to. Thanks for supporting the ISC ruling that our pension benefit cannot be diminished.

Comment by Just A Dude Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:27 pm
Anonymous, adding to what wondering posted at 12:13, property taxes fund other vital functions, such as education (not pensions), roads, etc., from which you benefit, directly or indirectly. Social Security is funded by several means, including payroll taxes that we all pay and General Fund revenues that come in part from our income taxes. Your Social Security comes from a big pot that contains more than just your personal contributions, and depending on your earnings and how long you live, you could end up getting back significantly more than you put in. Despite what you may think, you are not an island.

Comment by Crispy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:30 pm
How does the $46K compare to other states?==

Why does it matter? What do you think the number should be? Should we be one of the states at $19,000?

Are you seriously telling me you think 46,009 is too high? Please

Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:31 pm
Anon- OMG you just blew me out of the water.
Yes, I did totally forget about social security
Face palm
But in truth what a happy correction
I won’t be in poverty…..
Assuming that social security is still around
But thank you for correcting me

Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:32 pm
@JS
The data you use is tainted for two reasons - first the article hypes Pickett’s study which since 2014 has been roundly criticized as riddled with errors. Second the Census does not include entitlement payments to lower income individual such as food stamps so the data in general is not useful for making inequity claims.

“Therefore, money income does not reflect the fact that some families receive part of their income in the form of noncash benefits, such as food stamps, health benefits, subsidized housing, and goods produced and consumed on the farm. In addition, money income does not reflect the fact that noncash benefits are also received by some nonfarm residents which may take the form of the use of business transportation and facilities, full or partial payments by business for retirement programs, medical and educational expenses, etc.”

https://www.census.gov/topics/income-poverty/income/about.html#https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys.html

Comment by Texas Red Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:34 pm
Demo, that’s a fair question. If the poster would read up, he/she would see it’s been answered multiple times…

One thing I didn’t point out in my comment that I meant to was that several of the lower average states e.g. Wisconsin are actually averages of a consolidated statewide system including teachers, employees, cops, uni faculty, etc. The varying SS coverage in those groups is going to make a comparison to a pure non-SS system impossible.

Comment by Arthur Andersen Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 1:47 pm
I love your posts, Honeybear. Just remember, we are still no where pre-WWI conditions. History doesn’t care about our lifespans. We can only play the hand dealt to us, as creatively and articulately as we can. Militancy doesn’t or at least shouldn’t preclude fun and satire.

Comment by James Knell Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 2:11 pm
@Texas Red- tainted? Hardly. You don’t agree.

What is your income level? Are you trying to say that income isn’t an issue? Doesn’t exist? Isn’t massive and growing?

If that is your point then I know what is “tainted” and that is your ability to be truthful.

Income equality has been growing at record rates. But you go ahead and carry a flag for billionaires and the rest of the hyper rich. I am sure you think it is in your best economic interest. I hear Kansas is looking for “true believers”. Lol.

Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 2:37 pm
==The SS argument is a total red herring - it pre-supposes that state employees are somehow entitled to a certain standard of living in retirement.==
In a capitalist society people work hard to get a teacher’s degree and license, or some other advanced degree, sometimes going into debt to pay for it all. With that they expect good wages and benefits. Maybe in North Korea one is expected to volunteer. In a capitalist society it is called individual responsibility.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 2:43 pm
== Not to get technical, but wasn’t Rauner removed as a plaintiff because he lacked standing? I know he has been grandstanding on the issue, but is it really his “victory”? ==

Yes.

Comment by I Miss Bentohs Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 3:18 pm
== … That’s the choice. Workers or oligarchs
Where unions are weak, wages are weak
Where oligarchs are strong, only the privileged few do well. ==

In this case the oligarch is the taxpayer. I am on their side.

Comment by I Miss Bentohs Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 3:41 pm
===In this case the oligarch is the taxpayer. I am on their side.===

Public union workers are taxpayers too… so there’s that.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 3:42 pm
=== == Not to get technical, but wasn’t Rauner removed as a plaintiff because he lacked standing? I know he has been grandstanding on the issue, but is it really his “victory”? ==

Yes.===

Hmm

“wasn’t Rauner removed as a plaintiff because he lacked standing?”

Yes.

“I know he has been grandstanding on the issue, but is it really his “victory”?”

No, it’s Janus’ victory, Rauner will claim it as his, with the help of a lazy recount of events, enabling the myth to be true.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 3:49 pm
==Public union workers are taxpayers too… so there’s that==

If I may respond for Bentohs, and to paraphrase Mr. Orwell, “All taxpayers are equal, but some taxpayers are more equal than others.”

Quoting Bernard Shaw would just be plain mean.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 4:33 pm
===If I may respond for Bentohs, and to paraphrase Mr. Orwell, “All taxpayers are equal, but some taxpayers are more equal than others.”===

Yeah. Animal Farm. The book warning about communism and later how ruling classes make governing each other worse too.

You may want to retake that class on Animal Farm over next semester. You might have that copy of the book somewhere in your dorm room.

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 4:38 pm
==My social security amount is predicated on the years that I work and how much I earn, it has nothing to do with you.==

People who earn a public pension get their Social security they earned slashed by a third. So it ends up in the Social Security trust some of which might go to you.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 5:16 pm
==So let me get this right, you believe that the Justices and supporters of this bill worship a demon?==

Mammon means material wealth. Mammon isn’t “A demon”.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 5:27 pm
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 12:03 pm:

“My social security amount is predicated on the years that I work and how much I earn, it has nothing to do with you.”

As a teacher, I pay social security on my non-teaching income. That money supports YOUR social security benefits. So it does have something to do with me. I pay, and YOU get.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 5:38 pm
==You might have that copy of the book somewhere in your dorm room==

The joke’s on you, I wasn’t smart enough to go to collidge. But, I do understand that to most people, a tax increase is a negative, it means that they will have less to support their family. But for those taxpayers that stand to benefit from a tax increase (as do “Public Union Workers”, your words), the negative has the potential to turn into a positive, hence the stated disparity between different groups of taxpayers. Take a strident supporter of Local 150, for example, it wouldn’t be unrealistic to say that they would support a tax hike for a big infrastructure bill, right? In large part, it would be because they may directly or indirectly benefit more than it would cost them. So there’s that.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 6:17 pm
How fat are teacher pensions and what do they pay for them? Lets compare: as we have seen here, 46000 no spousal annuity. They pay 9.4. Railroad workers with spouse, 47000, pay 6.2. A third less pay out, a grand more. What is fat?

Comment by wondering Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 6:19 pm
===But, I do understand that to most people, a tax increase is a negative===

… which Rauner signed with a budget that certified and verified its need. You think it’s an accident we don’t hear about the Madigan Tax anymore? Can’t. Rauner used it to balance his first signed budget.

===… it means that they will have less to support their family.===

… as do those public union workers. They get the same tax rate, same as everyone else.

===But for those taxpayers that stand to benefit from a tax increase (as do “Public Union Workers”, your words),===

We all benefit. The pensions are constitutionally protected. They are benefiting as anyone who works as a public employee.

===…the negative has the potential to turn into a positive, hence the stated disparity between different groups of taxpayers===

No. That’s not this taxing thingy works. That’s like saying only firemen benefit, but the people needing the fire department don’t benefit from trained professionals to save them and their property. Ugh.

===Take a strident supporter of Local 150, for example, it wouldn’t be unrealistic to say that they would support a tax hike for a big infrastructure bill, right? In large part, it would be because they may directly or indirectly benefit more than it would cost them.===

Yeah, that only works if they helped create, say, I-355, and no one ever used I-355. Further, I guess skilled labor, even for safety’s sake alone isn’t your cup of tea? Hmm.

===So there’s that.===

I dunno if that means what you think that means the way you use it, lol

Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 6:27 pm
Hey, Tribune. How many union contracts were negotiated by Republican governors? How many by Democrats? What’s our per capita state worker number compared to other states. Blagojevich was perhaps a little generous but the skipped pension payments created the biggest part of this problem. Kicking the can down the road has never been isolated to one party.

Comment by Sense of a Goose Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 6:47 pm
When I retired the actuaries showed a teacher received 18 pension payments..

Comment by Big Foot Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 7:02 pm
“Unions have been the only powerful and effective voice working people have ever had in the history of this country.” - Bruce Springsteen

Comment by Anon Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 8:12 pm
– If a person can speak for God it seems that another person should be able to speak about what they hear around the water cooler, no?–

You bring so much to the discussion. Like a revived Dennis Byrne after a $50 restorative trip to the Walgreen’s, with everything applied generously and strategically to the bits you don’t want to think about.

Seriously, does discussion of your Sunday school lessons bother you? Why it that?

Those were important lessons were they not? Bedrock for how you proceed every day in your life?

Or were you just killing time for the donuts?

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Jun 28, 18 @ 8:26 pm
Rauner exercising his first amendment right to embellish the truth

Comment by Rabid Friday, Jun 29, 18 @ 5:38 am
OW, you sure did use a lot of words to say, “I’ve got nothin’”. The bottom line is that there are different classes of taxpayers based on how much they are “hurt” by a tax increase vs. how much they are “helped” by a tax increase. Public sector workers by and large fall into the latter category, which sets up a conflict of interest when it comes to tax hikes - it’s simply a fact.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Friday, Jun 29, 18 @ 12:30 pm
===you sure did use a lot of words to say, “I’ve got nothin’”.===

Really how so? lol

===The bottom line is that there are different classes of taxpayers based on how much they are “hurt” by a tax increase vs. how much they are “helped” by a tax increase. ===

No, lol, they all pay the same rate.

If you don’t want, police, fire, sewer, water, municipal workers, you’d have to pay for people to do that work somehow, and they’d pay taxes too off what they earned.

You really are dense.

===Public sector workers by and large fall into the latter category, which sets up a conflict of interest when it comes to tax hikes===

Then fire them all, with your dorm room thinking and contract out the work and… lol

You are utterly clueless.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 29, 18 @ 12:34 pm
==Thanks but no thanks. At least in Greece they’ve got nice weather to distract them from the misery of their financial decision.==
Greece is in trouble because most people didn’t pay their taxes. The government didn’t prosecute nonpayers, and borrowed money to maintain things. So do you want the government to collect taxes or not?

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Friday, Jun 29, 18 @ 2:32 pm
==You are utterly clueless==
Well, then, we have finally reached agreement on our opinions of one another. One difference is that you are clueless by design, which is a form of dishonesty, and I choose not to deal with dishonest people whenever possible. You can have the last word if you want it, mine is “you hypocrite”.

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Friday, Jun 29, 18 @ 4:31 pm
- Stuntman Bob’s Brother -

===One difference is that you are clueless by design, which is a form of dishonesty===

If you don’t want, police, fire, sewer, water, municipal workers, you’d have to pay for people to do that work somehow, and they’d pay taxes too off what they earned.

===Public sector workers by and large fall into the latter category, which sets up a conflict of interest when it comes to tax hikes===

Then fire them all, with your dorm room thinking and contract out the work and… lol

Nothing dishonest there.

That’s how governing works.

Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Jun 29, 18 @ 4:34 pm