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Yikes.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 9:44 am
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My children both went to Missouri schools, state universities…not private. In both cases, they were offered in-state tuition and scholarships. Tuition/Room/Board is significantly cheaper in Missouri than the cheapest “state school” in Illinois.
Comment by IL Mom of SEMO Student Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 9:55 am
We’re losing students because other universities understand its better to have universities than close them.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 9:56 am
One of many problems that SIUC faces.
Comment by Saluki Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 9:57 am
While this marketing obviously targets Illinois, the deal is good across the entire USA.
http://www.semo.edu/raa/
Comment by City Zen Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 9:58 am
Without a doubt the cost of a college degree does weigh heavily as families are making career changing decisions with their children. SEMO has an exceptional visual and performing arts program. A niece graduated with a dual major several years ago and has been successfully employed since graduation. Unlike many fine arts majors she has never had to work as a waitress or barista at Starbucks.
Comment by illini Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:16 am
- illini -
Yep.
Poaching universities tell families…
“You can have $60,000 in student loans, or come here and have no student loans.”
People who think that isn’t a selling point isn’t paying attention.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:18 am
When I was a younger man….students from Cape would socialize in Carbondale. It appears it has been trending the other way.
Comment by BlueDogDem Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:23 am
Stop with the doom and gloom Willy
UI’s record-breaking freshman class: Most in-state residents in 10 years
Wed, 09/12/2018 - 9:05am | Julie Wurth
CHAMPAIGN — Freshman enrollment at the University of Illinois’ flagship campus hit another record this fall, including a 10-year high for Illinois residents, pushing overall enrollment close to 50,000.
The fall 2018 freshman class also includes record numbers of students from underrepresented groups and first-generation college students — both just above 22 percent — according to 10-day enrollment figures released Wednesday. But African-American enrollment dropped slightly again.
And for the first time in years, international enrollment declined, possibly reflecting a national trend.
In all, 7,609 freshmen enrolled this fall, topping the previous high of 7,593 in fall 2016 and placing the class among the 10 largest in the country, according to the UI.
Total undergraduate enrollment also set a record at 33,673, slightly above last year’s record of 33,624. Campuswide enrollment, boosted by an increase in online graduate programs, rose by 1,513 students, to 49,339, a new high for the eighth straight year. Last year’s enrollment was 47,826.
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2018-09-12/uis-record-breaking-freshman-class-most-state-residents-10-years.html
Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:25 am
=“You can have $60,000 in student loans, or come here and have no student loans.”=
SEMO and U of I are not equivalent schools but point taken.
Comment by Colin O'Scopy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:31 am
- Lucky Pierre -
UIUC also lowered admission standards.
It was in “all the papers”
“U. of I. hikes aid, accepts lower scores for in-state students”
https://goo.gl/8p1cbN
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:32 am
===SEMO and U of I are not equivalent schools===
SEMO isn’t really competing for UIUC students. They’re competing for SIU, UIS, etc. students.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:34 am
Any growth at UIUC is in spite of Bruce Rauner.
Chancellor Jones agrees.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:43 am
Lucky - U of I might have a very large class with lots of Illinois kids…great…but that doesn’t change the fact that it is still cheaper to go out of state than in state tuition and fees at U of I! They might never face a tragic downturn due to their level of programs that attract world wide talent, but they are still priced out of the reach of many…including this alumni whom set her daughter to Kansas State - straight A pre-vet program.
Comment by Captain Illini Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:43 am
I expect to see Truman State target WIU in same way. Also I don’t see how the small private downstate schools survive this either. They have to be a target too.
Comment by Not a Billionaire Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:48 am
We must have hit the delete button not “say it”
SEMO is cheaper and is in the greater than 800 group in the WSJ college ranking. SIUC is 389 and SIUE is in the 601-800 group.
Border state schools have raided IL high schoolers for more than a decade. IL schools are starting to wake up UofI lowered standards to keep their numbers up. It will be interestin’ to see how the directional with these pressures from within and out.
Comment by Annonin' Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:51 am
Tiring to read about out of state schools not being
equivalent (in prestige? in quality? Hah to quality)After the first job, where you went to college doesn’t matter much. These days it’s all in the networking.
Given the financial strangulation of parents trying very hard to provide their kids with a college degree or watching them borrow their way to horrible debt problems, parents do what they need to do.
That’s the simple explanation for this. And believe it or not, there are many many fine quality schools in the Midwest. In total picture, many finer than UIUC. And I’m an alum
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:51 am
Context matters in these discussions and unfortunately ISBE isn’t the best at making its data available. In back of the napkin estimates, there are about 500,000 students who graduate high school in Illinois in any given year. If Illinois took all of its 7,000 freshmen from Illinois high schools, there still would be 493,000 potential college students remaining in Illinois.
Many of these kids will go out of state to college. The reason Illinois exports so many students is because Illinois has so many students. We’ve always been a national leader in filling college classrooms in other states. Of the high school grads who stay and attend college in Illinois, most will attend community college. Others will go to one of the remaining eleven public universities (ISU, SIUC + E, WIU, EIU, GSU, CSU, NE, NIU, UIS, UIC), still more will go to Loyola, DePaul, Know, Wesleyan, Northwestern, Chicago, etc. There are more than 60 private nonprofit colleges in Illinois.
The hardest group, but probably not the largest, are the students who graduate high school but don’t enroll in any college.
Of those 500,000 Illinois high school grads, maybe 100,000 are actively recruited by in- and out-of-state schools alike. They are the top 20% and/or the students who can pay. These are the students every college wants. Competition is fierce.
Instead of complaining, we need to do everything possible to help our public universities compete to make it more difficult for out-of-state publics to recruit them away.
You can’t gut your way to great universities.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 10:57 am
10:57 was me. Dang it.
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:05 am
Thought former MO Gov. “Seal” tried to end this, increasing tuition for out-of-staters. Apparently he failed.
Comment by Smitty Irving Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:12 am
Thank you @47thWard - I never reply to Anonymous.
Excellent points. And I am not questioning your “back of the napkin” data. The top 5% will always be admitted to UIUC, and all others have options they, and their parents, must consider. And those are difficult choices.
Although many students who are college bound want to break the ties with the family home, is it possible that our Community Colleges are missing some opportunities to keep some of these students in state at least for 2 years? But I agree, all the regional public universities have to do at least as well or better than the privates to keep our best students instate.
Comment by illini Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:23 am
===The top 5% will always be admitted to UIUC,===
Exactly. But they also get scholarship offers from Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Northwestern, Chicago, etc. That 5% threshold sees a lot of competition, so if those students who are accepted don’t go to UIUC, often times UIUC doesn’t lower its admission standards to fill those potential seats with other Illinois students. Although in recent years I believe they are trying to backfill open seats in the freshmen classes with Illinois students who might not be in the top 5% but meet some other valuable admissions criteria.
My point is that we have a capacity problem: lots of potential college students and relatively few places for them in public universities in Illinois. That makes out of state public universities (Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, etc.) more attractive for some students than Western or Northern.
There really is no changing this dynamic except the very hard and long-term work of making Illinois’ public universities the best they can be.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:31 am
===We’re losing students because other universities understand its better to have universities than close them.===
Illinois would be better served if it decided to close half of the universities and then spend the same amount appropriated on the other half.
The problem Illinois has is refusing to fund the universities that do exist rather than just closing them.
If one doesn’t want to prioritize public higher education, one should just close the school instead of gradually passing almost all of the cost onto students at the start of their careers so that they can be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of student debt — and then also get to pay the pension debt for the services their parents and grand parents got, all while every elected official in the state protects the federally taxed retirement subtraction which literally allows millionaires to pay zero income tax in the state where half of the benefits go to households earning more than 75k a year.
And what does the “fiscally conservative party” do in this state? Pretend they can fix it with pixie dust and lie to their constituents.
Comment by Anon Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:32 am
So apparently my new pc expects me to populate the Name/Nickname field each and every time I comment. Thanks in advance for your patience. 11:31 was me.
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:33 am
===My point is that we have a capacity problem: lots of potential college students and relatively few places for them in public universities in Illinois.===
That’s not true.
State universities in Illinois are no where near capacity.
===Illinois would be better served if it decided to close half of the universities and then spend the same amount appropriated on the other half.
The problem Illinois has is refusing to fund the universities that do exist rather than just closing them.===
(Sigh)
No. Nope. No.
Rauner is trying to passivity close universities.
Why do you think?
Why do you think Rauner won’t go to Charleston or Carbondale, or Macon’s… and say… “I’m closing your state university.
Why hasn’t that happened?
Why is it passively?
You fund items at a level of zero when you want them gone.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:39 am
===That’s not true.===
Inartfully worded perhaps, but tell me Willy, why are half of the current total of college students enrolled in Illinois going to private colleges? Do you think the public universities could absorb those students and double in size next year?
But it’s not just about total numbers and available seats. For the student who came close to being admitted to UIUC, what’s your second choice? ISU? Hardly (and I say that as a proud Redbird).
No, second place is likely another Big 10 school, or another solid engineering school, most likely at a public university. They have extra seats in Alabama you know.
If you are an above average student with the ability to pay, EIU, WIU, SIU etc. are not on your list and won’t be until the quality improves, which will take a long time.
That’s the capacity problem I was talking about. It’s complicated but trust me when I tell you there is an entire profession involved in what’s called “enrollment management.” After UIUC and a handful of programs at some of the other publics, students in the top quarter academically are looking outside of Illinois or at private universities.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:50 am
^^^^^
Dang it.
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:51 am
Tip of the cap to Lucky. Dead on with the University of Illinois stats.
BTW, SEMO was offering in state tuition last year if a person had a ACT score of 20. Nothing like having a high bar!!
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 11:51 am
===Dead on with the University of Illinois stats.==
UIUC also lowered admission standards.
Hmm.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:09 pm
Chancellor Jones?
===“Given the financial challenges facing higher education over the past 25 months, our focus has been on protecting our students’ Illinois experience and ensuring their success,” Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Robert Jones said in a statement. “We are proud that despite the state budget crisis, our graduation rate, freshman retention rate, admitted student quality and reputation among peers and high school counselors all held steady or improved. Our class sizes crept up, but only slightly.”===
… all in spite of Bruce Rauner.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:11 pm
- 47th Ward -
Who I greatly respect, and have stated so many times…
===But it’s not just about total numbers and available seats. For the student who came close to being admitted to UIUC, what’s your second choice? ISU? Hardly (and I say that as a proud Redbird).
No, second place is likely another Big 10 school, or another solid engineering school, most likely at a public university. They have extra seats in Alabama you know.===
Roll… Tide?
My take on this is as I’ve tried to explain;
Why won’t Rauner decide to actively close state universities?
When you fund universities at a level of zero, or make the economics to attend Illinois universities unattractive when comparing to other higher visibility universities, how can the SIUs or EIUs or even ISUs compete?
===After UIUC and a handful of programs at some of the other publics, students in the top quarter academically are looking outside of Illinois or at private universities.===
… and where i am here is… forcing the decision to a no broker to leave Illinois… for Alabama… I’d say we’re pribabky doing it wrong.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:18 pm
Yet, UIUC and the entire U of I system continues to set records. Maybe you missed the part that it has been a trend the past 8-10 years that records are being set.
You can scream at the clouds Willy, but facts are facts, even if you don’t like them.
You should visit the Champaign campus, it is impressive what is going on there with new structures, University buildings, campus housing and apartment buildings. Green Street is remarkable.
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:21 pm
- Pick a Name -
Such a piece of work you are…
===You can scream at the clouds… but facts are facts, even if you don’t like them.===
Your argument is with Chancellor Jones, not me, LOL
I know, “you know” more than Chancellor Jones. You… “know”
===You should visit the Champaign campus, it is impressive what is going on there with new structures, University buildings, campus housing and apartment buildings. Green Street is remarkable.===
How do you know I haven’t?
Is your argument… “because Green Street” vs. Chancellor Jones?
Oh boy.
But I know… “you know”… LOL
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:24 pm
===how can the SIUs or EIUs or even ISUs compete?===
Thanks Willy.
Let’s face it, if we’re not willing to invest in them, the only other good option is to let them go private, or semi-private. Give them the land and the assets, cut all of the state mandated red tape, let them operate as they wish and hope for the best.
Privatizing them will make them leaner and would give faculty more skin in the game. It isn’t a panacea, but you shouldn’t cut off their funding and still expect them to follow state procurement code and all of the other micromanagement the state comes up with.
IBHE has been AWOL for too long. We allow our universities to compete with and cannibalize each other. It’s like Higher Ed Darwinism in Illinois, let the strong survive.
That’s a big part of what needs to change. Some form of market segmentation, with areas of excellence for each public campus. Otherwise, we just settle for a very good UIUC and a bunch of mediocre directionals. In that environment, going out of state will remain a good option to too many students.
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:29 pm
==Maybe you missed the part that it has been a trend the past 8-10 years that records are being set.==
UIUC in-state/total enrollment:
2008 31,049/41,495 = 75%
2013 28,313/43,398 = 65%
2018 29,248/49,339 = 59%
Records are indeed being set, but Illinois students are watching from the sidelines.
Comment by City Zen Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:33 pm
===Let’s face it, if we’re not willing to invest in them, the only other good option is to let them go private, or semi-private. Give them the land and the assets, cut all of the state mandated red tape, let them operate as they wish and hope for the best.
Privatizing them will make them leaner and would give faculty more skin in the game. It isn’t a panacea, but you shouldn’t cut off their funding and still expect them to follow state procurement code and all of the other micromanagement the state comes up with.===
What Governor wants to tell Carbondale, Charleston, Macomb… even Normal… “Sink or swim, close or don’t close, the state is done with you”?
It’s better than Rauner passively trying to close state universities.
I know (kinda punny) that how Illinois is going about it’s business with higher ed must improve, but these “look how great things are” wishes when Chancellors and Presidents say otherwise… I trust those looking at the real. There needs to be leadership here. Things aren’t great.
===Otherwise, we just settle for a very good UIUC and a bunch of mediocre directionals. In that environment, going out of state will remain a good option to too many students.===
… then we are no better than states refusing to invest in higher ed, or willing to approach higher ed as an asset… as companies like Amazon do when looking to move.
All good - 47th Ward -… maybe we can “solve” all this one afternoon.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:40 pm
WIU needs to get better about marketing things.
They’ve been offering this (in-state tuition for all US students) since 2016. They also haven’t raised tuition rates since then, and were the first university to guarantee the same rate for the first 4 years of attending.
Nobody seems to know about it though.
Comment by Doing Human Things Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:41 pm
Zen, do you really care where the kids are coming from. In a 10 year period, total enrollment increased almost 8000 students. At even $12K for tuition(likely low) that is….. wait for it….
$96 million a year. Throw in fees, housing, purchases in the community, sales taxes, etc. and you have a booming university system.
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:43 pm
===No. Nope. No.
Rauner is trying to passivity close universities.===
OW, I don’t think we’re actually disagreeing. Did Rauner want the universities to fail and close their doors? Probably. That’s the kind of guy he is.
However — the insane expense of in-state tuition for Illinois’ public university that makes it more expensive to attend in-state than to pay out of state at universities in our neighboring states — even ones without creative “pay our in-state rate” targeting isn’t a problem that started with the Rauner administration and it won’t end with the Rauner administration.
If the State of Illinois is serious about affordable higher education with a discount for in-state residents, then it has to be solved with additional funding one way or another.
Rauner absolutely hurt the Universities — and made a lot of those problems worse — but it’s not like this problem didn’t previously exist.
It also doesn’t help that several of those universities are represented by folks that marched in lock step with Rauner while he was trying to destroy those schools and didn’t make as much of a ruckus about it as they should have.
Comment by Anon Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:47 pm
===do you really care where the kids are coming from===
Tell that to parents who are sending their students out of state…. who won’t have student loans… who achieved, but Illinois’ universities say… “thanks, but no thanks”
Heck, UIUC lowered its standards to get more in-stare students.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:49 pm
===the insane expense of in-state tuition for Illinois’ public university that makes it more expensive to attend in-state than to pay out of state at universities in our neighboring states — even ones without creative “pay our in-state rate” targeting isn’t a problem that started with the Rauner administration and it won’t end with the Rauner administration.===
You know this?
That might be news to the future governor(s) who haven’t made clear *any* policy.
Purely speculative.
===If the State of Illinois is serious about affordable higher education with a discount for in-state residents, then it has to be solved with additional funding one way or another.
Rauner absolutely hurt the Universities — and made a lot of those problems worse — but it’s not like this problem didn’t previously exist.===
One governor at a time. Right now it’s Rauner. He is to blame and is a failure. If you are cheering for state universities, Bruce Rauner isn’t with you.
===It also doesn’t help that several of those universities are represented by folks that marched in lock step with Rauner while he was trying to destroy those schools and didn’t make as much of a ruckus about it as they should have.===
… ask Mr. Barickman, Mr. Rose, Mr. Phillips how I have felt about their higher ed phonieness.
Just sayin’
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 12:53 pm
===$96 million a year. Throw in fees, housing, purchases in the community, sales taxes, etc. and you have a booming university system.===
… while hundreds and hundreds of Illinois students leave the state… without worrying about inflated student loans, merit scholarships, and full funding for state universities…
Oh…
===Throw in fees, housing, purchases in the community, sales taxes, etc. and you have a booming university system.===
Chancellor Jones?
===“Given the financial challenges facing higher education over the past 25 months…===
LOL… you should sit down with Chancellor Jones.
I dunno if fighting “challenges” since Rauner is part of that “booming”
You should tell him that “you know”
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:01 pm
Let’s not forget SIUC’S declining enrollment started decades ago. To argue that tuition does not play a huge roll in school selection is foolhardy. But there is more to it than that. Case in point, Edwardsville v. Carbondale. Let’s see if Eastern has solved the riddle and can sustain increases in enrollment.
Comment by BlueDogDem Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:12 pm
===Case in point, Edwardsville v. Carbondale===
Examine the population trends of Carbondale and Edwardsville over since 1990. SIU-E’s enrollment gains have largely been from commuter students while students in Carbondale typically still move to campus to attend.
When you’re done with those comparisons, go to the produce market and start comparing apples to apples for more practice.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:17 pm
I think at some point, hopefully soon, people will just assume Anonymous is me. Until then, I continue to apologize for the confusion I am causing.
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:18 pm
As someone looking at this again (second kid), I find the
But it’s U of I and all these others offering our kids lower tuition are not the same as the fine U of I.
There is a lot of truth there, but.
After the first job is anyone going to really care where you went to school? Does anyone?
My oldest was and still to some degree is looking at going to Medical school. We have a doctor in the area who runs a mini-med school program (for the weekend version kids fly in from around the country to attend). For the multi-week program, he does a session for parents and students at the end and he shares some interesting info, the biggest surprise to me was how little medical schools care about where you went to undergrad, it was like 17th out of 20 factors.
So yeah U of I is great, I didn’t go there and I likely would not have been admitted there. But I have always been able to find gainful employment in my field. So if that is your goal for a college education (gainful employment) is it worth the extra money (or debt) to go to school X vs school Y, it may be. Yes, gainful employment may be a cynical educational goal, but it is a goal.
Is there really that much of a difference between an accounting (or CS) grad from U of I vs Indiana state besides the kid who went to Indiana State may have spent between 32 and 40K less for their education?
In an unrelated note, I will say my kid gets a heck of a lot more mail from U of Chicago than he does from all the state schools combined. He gets a bit from U of I and virtually nothing from NIU even though both parents are alums, donors and live at the same address as him. Now that is bad marketing.
Comment by OneMan Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:22 pm
OneMan—-UIUC accounting major is ranked 3rd in the nation, behind the University of Texas and Penn. At different times it has been ranked numero uno.
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:28 pm
===UIUC accounting major is ranked 3rd in the nation, behind the University of Texas and Penn. At different times it has been ranked numero uno.===
… or you can be awarded a merit scholarship, have no debt compared to the debt you may acquire at UIUC…
… and still need to pass the CPA exam… UIUC grad or not.
“I paid full price, passing up merit scholarships”… dunno if that’s good financial sense… for an accountant, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:36 pm
Some people drive Mercedes, Lexus, Escalade’s, Tahoe’s and pay for them.
Others drive Ford Fiesta’s and Chevy Sparks.
And, I can assure you Willy, the very top accounting students get merit scholarships at UIUC. And, I have no idea what sect means???
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:45 pm
===the very top accounting students get merit scholarships at UIUC===
Cite where they are, please.
Thanks.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:45 pm
===Some people drive Mercedes, Lexus, Escalade’s, Tahoe’s and pay for them.===
“Having $60,000 in student debt is good… especially if you can afford it… but what recent college grad doesn’t want that debt saddled tomthem?”
LOL
===Some people drive Mercedes, Lexus, Escalade’s, Tahoe’s and pay for them.===
“I coulda paid cash for a BMW, but I wanted the $400 car payment for 5 years”
Vanity.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:49 pm
If UIUC had these “merit scholarships”, Alabama wouldn’t be poaching Illinois’ top students.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:50 pm
Briliant.
They know what they are doing down there.
Comment by btowntruthfromforgottonia Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 1:52 pm
My nephew was awarded a “full ride” Chancellors Scholarship to attend SIUC and he declined. My brother paid his full fare at UIUC, he graduated and is very successfully employed.
And with any luck his son will become the 5th generation of my family to become an Illini and and a proud Alumni. Unless Harvard or Yale make better offers.
And I guarantee you, he will never be poached by an Alabama, Ole Miss or any of those other SEC schools. Other Big 10 schools, maybe, but time will tell.
Comment by illini Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:04 pm
===And I guarantee you, he will never be poached by an Alabama, Ole Miss or any of those other SEC schools. Other Big 10 schools, maybe, but time will tell.===
Vanity can be mighty expensive.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:06 pm
==do you really care where the kids are coming from==
The point went way over your head if you’re making a statement like that. The point is that universities need to be affordable for Illinois students.
Comment by Demoralized Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:11 pm
Point well taken, Willy, but I think I know where his Dad ( the 4th generation ) will be coming from.
It was expensive for his dad ( my brother, and also a UIUC graduate ). but the decision was made and has worked out well.
Comment by illini Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:15 pm
===The point is that universities need to be affordable for Illinois students.===
This. That’s the ball game.
- illini -,
It’s all good, my point, the overall point, is that Illinois universities and affordability is driving the bus for a number of families, and ignoring it for vanity is a tough way to look at the cost of higher ed.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:19 pm
EIU just rolled out a program that makes this mailer untrue. From the EIU website:
EIU will match the out-of-pocket cost of attendance of any regionally accredited public university in Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. To qualify, Illinois students can submit their Financial Aid Award letters from qualifying institutions in those states.
So all an Illinois resident needs to do is get an offer letter from SEMO and take it to the EIU admissions office. They will match that offer. It seems that the recent AIM High pilot program is making this possible.
More details here:
https://www.eiu.edu/aimhigh/
Comment by Crosstab Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:40 pm
“In back of the napkin estimates, there are about 500,000 students who graduate high school in Illinois in any given year”
What are you smoking? You think 4% of the entire state population is 18 years old? High school graduating classes statewide are more like 150,000 - and falling.
Get out a new napkin and re-do your math. You’re WAAAAAAAAAAY off.
Comment by Anonymous Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:50 pm
Please compare Alabama academics to UIUC Willy. Please show all of us how test scores, school rankings, etc. match up. We are curious.
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:50 pm
- Pick a Name -
We’re talking economics first…
You sound strangely familiar to another commenter. Same questions, same stances, same stuff… it’s really interesting.
LOL
https://goo.gl/Ci2D6U
Start there…
===Approximately 40 percent of UA’s freshman class scored 30 or higher on the ACT, and more than 36 percent were in the top 10 percent of their high school graduating class. The entering class in 2018 carries an average high school grade-point average of 3.71, with more than 34 percent having a high school GPA of 4.0 or higher. The class’s average ACT is 27.===
Check the last four classes and their stats too.
What a piece of work you are….
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 2:57 pm
Anon 1:17, have a cite for your SIUE “commuter school” stat?
The new dorms, hundreds of new student apartments, and my own personal experience with SIUE suggest otherwise.
Carbondale vs. Edwardsville comparisons occur because they are sister institutions. Very much apples to apples in that context.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:00 pm
OK, 2:50pm is clearly not me this time. According to the IL report card, anonymous is right, roughly 150,000 high school seniors. I was wrong, but in fairness, it was a cocktail napkin.
I think my point is still valid though, which was if all of the 7,000 freshman enrolled at UIUC were Illinois kids, then there would still be a huge number (143,000) that need to find a place somewhere. Community colleges will take a lot, the other publics will take some, Illinois privates will take the better performing students and the others, those with almost UIUC admission scores, will depart for greener pastures elsewhere.
But yeah, my number was way off.
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:02 pm
===We’re talking economics first…===
To be even clearer…
If a student wants $60,000 of student debt for vanity, or have a merit scholarship, no debt, take the same CPA exam, 2 new CPAs, one with debt, the other not… have at it.
Vanity is pretty expensive.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:07 pm
Um… Having kids and facing tuition within the next 5 years, they go where it is cheapest and best for the money. If the oldest wants to be an engineer and he can go to Alabama for free or take on oodles of debt for U of I… That’s his horrible decision. Get the paper. Alabama or U of I degree um, that doesn’t matter unless your a snob. Get the best degree with the least amount spent. That’s the only way to get ahead in life. It’s called self reliance. Illinois isn’t an easy option. 20 years ago, it was only rich kids that went out of state… kids these days.
Comment by BenFolds5 Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:13 pm
1:17 was me AA.
I don’t have a link that shows SIUE is a commuter school, but I think we’re both old enough to remember before it built dorms. My sense is that it still relies more on adults and commuters than Carbondale because it is in a more heavily populated area of the state. Those factors push enrollment numbers up. BDD has long suggested that $$ should follow enrollment within the SIU “system.”
For some evidence, there is this from IBHE: If you have time to kill, compare SIUC and SIUE. Pay close attention to “auxillary revenues in the budget section. That is higher ed code for dorms/food service. IIRC, SIUC was roughly $75 million, while SIUE was approximately $46 million. Total enrollment at SIUE was 14,142, while SIUC was 15,987.
So Carbondale is about 12% bigger in enrollment, but spent about 40% more on student housing/food service. From that I was able to infer that Edwardsville has more students who commute than residential students.
Hope that helps.
http://ibheprofiles.ibhe.org/profile.aspx?fice=001758
Comment by 47th Ward Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:21 pm
To get this back to SEMO… and what is happening to the ISUs and SIUs…
One thing that is known… if you’re considering SIU… and let’s say SEMO has the major, newer facilities, funding rising, and the cost, dollar for dollar is exactly the same… the idea that Rauner crushing higher ed is right here… Rauner wants the apple to apple… be… the Illinois university is the “rotten apple” choice.
We, as a state, need to do better… when Illinois residents see the apple to apple… its better outside Illinois.
Makes Rauner gleeful, this SEMO mailer.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:34 pm
A piece that the IBHE did on tuition in IL and some competitor states. https://www.ibhe.org/assets/files/DataPoint_WhatDoIllinoisResidentsPay_Update.pdf
Can’t argue with OW or 47th much on their comments, but would add that the overwhelming majority of students that leave IL go to a neighboring state. MO/IA/WI/MI/IN/OH combined enrolled over 18,000 of our folks in 2016, though Bama (650) gets the headlines
Comment by Columbo Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:43 pm
Pretty simple for many kids down here. SEMO is only a 15-30 minute drive for a lot of kids down here. Makes sense to go there.
Comment by Alex Ander Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 3:52 pm
Alabama ranks 129, same as Kansas and Mizzou. Willy, Alabama did nip the University of California at Merced in the rankings.
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:12 pm
===Alabama ranks 129, same as Kansas and Mizzou.===
Again…
If you are a snob… you “need” to pay to feel important… when Kansas, or Mizzou, or Alabama will leave you with no debt…
LOL…
You go with that.
“I pay full price”
What a piece of work.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:17 pm
Plus…
Kansas just beat Rutgers.
Mizzou just beat Purdue.
Alabama is the #1 team in the county.
The illini lost to South Florida.
Pay full price, awful athletics, (I follow illini golf, they’re really great) student debt…
Are you trying to sell Illinois?
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:23 pm
Bill Self left Illinois to go to Kansas.
I’m mocking all this by going sports to make a point.
Illinois, whose chancellor stated the Rauner years have hurt higher ed, and schools like SEMO, or Kansas, or Mizzou, or Kentucky… they are poaching because the cost of college is a deciding factor.
Ignoring cost, or how out of state schools take our seniors isn’t aided by orange and blue sunglasses shading that students who could go to ISU, EIU… they go out of state… and if you think for a second students that could go to Illinois but are choosing not to go to UIUC isn’t happening, and cost is the factor… yikes.
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:37 pm
I really have no idea where you come up with this “no debt” bunk. Do you realize how universities work? Do you think they give away room and board and fees? You act like other schools provide free college like Halloween candy.
Comment by Pick a Name Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:38 pm
===I really have no idea where you come up with this “no debt” bunk. Do you realize how universities work? Do you think they give away room and board and fees?===
Yep. Happens often. Merit scholarships have additions.
Use the google,
Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:40 pm
“Get the paper.”
ick… someday we should actually separate vocational education from higher learning.
Yeah, I’m a snob… so be it.
Comment by James Knell Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 5:45 pm
47, thanks for the info. Aux facilities is a reasonable metric; I suspect SIUC’s bigger (and older) infrastructure may nudge that up a bit, too. I couldn’t find SIUE’s figures that they cite to prospective parents on the Google, but they do show a trend toward on-campus residency.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Monday, Sep 17, 18 @ 8:09 pm
BTW, Alabama’s Engineering program is ranked 106, UIUC is ranked 6th.
Comment by Pick a Name Tuesday, Sep 18, 18 @ 7:54 am
- Pick a Name -
LOL
“BTW”, are you smarter than Chancellor Jones?
======“Given the financial challenges facing higher education over the past 25 months, our focus has been on protecting our students’ Illinois experience and ensuring their success,” Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Robert Jones said in a statement. “We are proud that despite the state budget crisis, our graduation rate, freshman retention rate, admitted student quality and reputation among peers and high school counselors all held steady or improved. Our class sizes crept up, but only slightly.”===
Just say “you know” more than Chancellor Jones… I need a good morning laugh.
You are indeed… a piece of work.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Sep 18, 18 @ 7:59 am
===the very top accounting students get merit scholarships at UIUC===
Where are these merit scholarships… ya forget to find them… or…
Also…
===Please show all of us how test scores, school rankings, etc. match up.===
Asked and answered.. you just don’t like the answers…
======Approximately 40 percent of UA’s freshman class scored 30 or higher on the ACT, and more than 36 percent were in the top 10 percent of their high school graduating class. The entering class in 2018 carries an average high school grade-point average of 3.71, with more than 34 percent having a high school GPA of 4.0 or higher. The class’s average ACT is 27.===
You didn’t cite these merit scholarships UIUC has, you wanted to compare, I brought my stats…
You’re “that person” who paid full price for UIUC and need to justify the burdensome student loans… while the Illini lose to South Florida.
You brought nothing but the angry person at the end of the bar with snobbery.
You may need to pick another name.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Sep 18, 18 @ 8:05 am
Boy Willy, you would think with the data you shared that Alabama would rank much higher than the University of California at Merced.
But, they don’t
Quality matters, in clothes, cars, construction, legal work, accounting, engineering and university rankings. Some times it is wise to pay for that quality.
Again, facts are facts. You don’t have to like them, you don;’t have to believe them, but they are facts.
Not angry at all, I’m a very happy, well adjusted person.
Comment by Pick a Name Tuesday, Sep 18, 18 @ 8:11 am
===Quality matters, in clothes, cars, construction, legal work, accounting, engineering and university rankings. Some times it is wise to pay for that quality.
Again, facts are facts. You don’t have to like them, you don;’t have to believe them, but they are facts.===
Not. One. Stat.
Not. One. Fact.
===Some times it is wise to pay for that quality.==
LOL
What makes you think an Iowa State engineer isn’t getting employed? What makes you think there isn’t quality?
NASA thinks so…
https://bit.ly/2eMHR51
NASA sees no quality?
You should take that up with NASA, not me.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Sep 18, 18 @ 8:17 am
Speaking as a U of I-C engineering grad, in this day and age it only matters a tiny bit for that first job, where the degree comes from. I would not spend a penny more for a degree than you have to.
Comment by BlueDogDem Tuesday, Sep 18, 18 @ 9:02 am