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* The Tribune with its usual schtick…
Illinois residents are fleeing for more economically hospitable states. They go to Texas, Florida and other Sun Belt states because job prospects are better, tax burdens are lower and the weather is more temperate. The Exodus is real. It’s damaging Illinois. And it may be getting worse.
The warning comes from a fellow sufferer, otherwise known as the governor of New York. Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo reports that New York state income tax revenue last year came up short by a projected $2.3 billion. Cuomo partially blames the departure of wealthy residents from his high-tax state in the wake of federal tax reform, which put a limit on the amount of state and local taxes that can be deducted on federal income tax forms.
When New York, already expensive, put an even higher tax burden on residents, some New Yorkers who could afford to leave did so. In Cuomo’s memorable phrase on Monday: “Tax the rich. Tax the rich. Tax the rich. We did that. God forbid the rich leave.”
As of Tuesday we hadn’t seen an estimated 2018 tax revenue figure from Springfield, but a trend’s a trend. There’s reason to anticipate that some affluent, mobile residents of Illinois will reach the same conclusions as their brethren from New York that they’d be better off financially in a different locale. The Wall Street Journal reports that growing numbers of wealthy tax refugees from New York, New Jersey and Illinois are showing up in Miami to buy condos.
* Crain’s New York Business talked to the NY budget office…
In expectation of the [federal tax] change, an untold number of New York taxpayers accelerated income and deductions in the final days of 2017, paying more taxes than the state anticipated so that they could pay less in 2018. Absent that timing-related shift, personal income tax revenue would have risen 4.3% rather than declined, a state budget spokesman said. That suggests the state economy grew stronger last year.
Emphasis added.
Gov. Cuomo was basically just making a political argument against the Republican tax plan and everyone focused on that, rather than what actually happened.
…Adding… The Tribune claims “As of Tuesday we hadn’t seen an estimated 2018 tax revenue figure from Springfield.” The editorial board should’ve pulled up the latest monthly revenue briefing from COGFA. Here it is…
In January, base monthly receipts decreased $379 million. Regular readers of the Commission’s monthly briefing will recall that last January net income tax revenues spiked $925 million not only due to higher income tax rates, but also to taxpayer behavior related to the federal tax reform package. In essence, taxpayers were incentivized to pay their tax liabilities within tax year 2017 to take advantage of the last year of the SALT deductions—prior to new federal limitations. The timing of those accelerated payments caused a jump in estimated payments collected in January. As a consequence, the comparative decline in this month’s income tax performance is not surprising and was quite solid when viewed through the proper lens. This month had the same number of receipting days as the same prior year period.
While monthly gross personal income taxes fell $393 million, or $340 million on a net basis, that decline needs to be put in context given last year’s record January levels.
* From the Center for Tax and Budget Accountability…
In Illinois, each of the income categories we examined saw net domestic out-migration, meaning more people left Illinois for elsewhere in the US than arrived here from other states. On its own, that’s not surprising: Illinois has had negative overall net domestic migration for nearly a century, even when its population was booming, as we explained in our previous post. (One big reason is that Illinois has long relied on international immigration and new births for its population growth.)
But Illinois’ greatest losses aren’t among those making over $100,000 — not even close. From 2012 to 2016, on average, for every 1,000 people making six figures or more, Illinois lost 4.6 of them to domestic migration each year. In contrast, that figure was more than doubled for people making under $25,000, at 10.6 per 1,000, and hit a substantially higher 9.1 per 1,000 for people making between $25,000 and $50,000.
Indeed, Illinois’ migration losses are least severe in what we might think of as the “middle class” categories, between $50,000 and $100,000.
In other words, most people generally leave when they can’t afford to stay.
* And where have the wealthy Illinoisans been moving to? Well, New York, for one…
The top destination for households making over $100,000 is actually the New York City metropolitan area — hardly a low-tax oasis. Houston is second, with the top six rounded out by Los Angeles (where the top state income tax bracket is 13.3 percent, versus 4.95 percent in Illinois); Minneapolis-St. Paul (where it’s 9.85 percent); Denver (4.63 percent) and Washington, DC (8.95 percent). Only then do we reach northwest Indiana, in seventh place.
Overall, high-income Illinoisans’ top out-of-state destinations are a mix of low-tax usual suspects in the Sun Belt (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville) and places you’d probably steer clear of if you were moving to find low taxes (four metropolitan areas in California, New York, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Washington). This makes sense: As we wrote in our last post, migration experts generally say that taxes rank low on the list of reasons that people move, far below things like job opportunities, being close to friends and family, or overall cost of living, which is often more affected by housing costs than state and local taxes.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 10:56 am
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Does the Illinois population loss still exclude Chicagoland? If the losses are elsewhere, the answer would be different than if the loss was in Chicagoland.
Comment by Anyone Remember Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:01 am
I was curious, so i just called my good friend who last November moved to Florida. His rationale for leaving was property taxes. I asked him if anyone ever contacted him regarding his move. His answer. No. Is there only data out there from moving companies? Is so, how accurate are the numbers?
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:09 am
If a progressive CA passes and makes in onto the 2020 ballot, it’s going to be fun watching the anguished screams of the professional phony criers like the Trib editorial board and IPI—people who’ve done great in Illinois, paying low state income taxes for decades and making good or great money.
If the voters enact a graduated income tax, it’ll be a blast.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:12 am
It is expensive to move to a less expensive state. I know from doing so 18 months ago. Real estate commissions, closing taxes, movers, new furniture all of it adds up. However we are now saving significantly with a similar life style as in Chicago. It took most of the 18 months to break even but here we are.
I was making
Comment by jeffinginChicago Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:12 am
===Is there only data out there from moving companies?===
No. Census data, tax data, etc. Try the Google.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:13 am
Grandson. A graduated income tax is surely going to see middle income families pay more. Your idea of a blast is kinda warped.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:15 am
==A graduated income tax is surely going to see middle income families pay more.==
You seem pretty certain of yourself considering you have absolutely nothing to look at yet.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:17 am
Those of us nearing retirement are considering our options. A lot of nice places where our retirement savings is safer and will go further, also lots of part time work for the semi retired. Our children and grandchildren are in 3 different states- none of them Illinois. Tax laws, gun laws, financial crisis, weather, cost of living, proximity to family. Illinois politics and reality make staying here less attractive. I won’t feel guilty when I leave.
Comment by Tequila Mockingbird Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:19 am
It’s fascinating and revealing that the tronc edit board continues to flog its exodus story while refusing to acknowledge that the small net loss of population is due to the massive departure of black Chicagoans from the West and South Sides.
Is that where all the rich people live? They’re fleeing because of taxes? Any other reasons they might want to leave — like lousy housing and fear of getting shot?
Absent that radical change in the city’s demographic trend, Chicago’s population would be increasing — and is increasing among those with higher incomes, as is obvious to anyone who can look up and see all those new residential towers or has priced real estate in “good” neighborhoods.
Perhaps the tronc deep-thinkers should hop the El and visit K-Town and West Garfield Park to establish what the real problems are and search for answers.
I kid. They’re not going to do that.
Below are links from those who are actually researching the issue, not just setting their hair on fire every day to advance unsupported ideological claims.
http://robparal.blogspot.com/
https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicagos-black-exodus/Content?oid=66920657
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:22 am
“A graduated income tax is surely going to see middle income families pay more. Your idea of a blast is kinda warped.”
Voters probably won’t support a progressive income tax on the ballot that doesn’t cut taxes for the vast majority of Illinoisans. If the proponents accomplish cutting taxes on the many and raising them on the richest, you better believe I’ll be having a blast.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:23 am
== A graduated income tax is surely going to see middle income families pay more. ==
Didn’t the Civic Committee just propose to raise taxes on middle income families, in part to preempt larger tax increases on the wealthy?
Comment by Hamlet's Ghost Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:26 am
Finally….. the dots are being connected and the light is coming on. Illinoisians aren’t just “leaving the state”. More specifically, young and educated downstate aspirational earners are leaving the farm bureau rural ghetto counties and moving to cities, in all states, for a better quality of life. 88 out of 102 counties are rapidly getting poorer. A similar dynamic is occurring in all our neighboring states.
Comment by Radio rod Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:28 am
===In other words, most people generally leave when they can’t afford to stay.===
The high cost of living in “high tax” places like a California or New York also have wealthy folks willing to stay, or those like Mr. Griffin, Illinois’ wealthiest person buying real estate, some the most expensive bought, in places with higher taxes than Illinois, globally.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:29 am
== A graduated income tax is surely going to see middle income families pay more. ==
I thought the national GOP already raised taxes on middle income families, to pay for the cuts the rich people got.
Also, the person I know who moved last year went to Phoenix because it’s warmer there. He’s kind of regretting it, as he can’t go outside for most of the summer now.
Comment by Cheryl44 Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:31 am
This is a tempest in a teapot. According to the US Census Bureau, Illinois population went down 0.7% from the last US Census.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:33 am
It is going to take another 5 to 10 years to really understand what is going on. Many people don’t yet know if the new federal tax code will benefit them or hurt them. Despite the rhetoric on both sides, many will be surprised. The wealthy lost a lot of deductions under the new law, and of course those in the high SALT states lost even more. Whether it’s enough to cause them to leave, time will tell.
As 10,000 Americans a day turn 65, many will retire. Whether those in Illinois stay here may be impacted on whatever JB and friends decide to do with taxing retirement income. The Illinois climate sure hasn’t been very attractive lately.
It’s a complex issue influenced by many factors. The decisions made by the new administration will either slow the recent trend or exacerbate it.
Comment by SSL Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:41 am
Increasing debt and new spending by government, ensure higher taxes in Illinois. No wonder the tax paying population is pessimistic and moving to lower cost of living states to live in. The future here looks bleak.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:45 am
===Didn’t the Civic Committee just propose to raise taxes on middle income families, in part to preempt larger tax increases on the wealthy?===
Last time I checked nobody on the Civic Committee will be the one pushing the little green buttons on the chamber floors. Obviously they have some clout and influence but they also have proposed a ton of ideas that have gone nowhere over the years.
Comment by Been There Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:45 am
Realities and rhetoric in Illinois are very disturbing to most average middle class people, regardless of all the spin on this blog.
For years, politicians have been spending and promising more than doable. No change seen on the horizon.
Middle class people with property taxes over $1000/mo have seen their property value deflate and most can’t afford to retire with that load on their monthly budget.
“Salt” deduction now capped, highlighting blue state over-spending.
It’s a good job market nationwide with a lot of interesting options. Taking a loss on the primary residence will relieve the stress of having a target on your back and looks more wise daily.
Comment by middle class thoughts Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:46 am
Hmmm.
Let’s consider the most dramatic fallout from progressive taxes in Illinois. It may well drive out the wealthiest from our state. And if you are a middle income earner your thoughts might be, “Who cares?
Well beyond the declining tax base, guess who besides job creators won’t be moving to the state? It’s that group of young high income earners - physicians.
It’s estimated that the US will have a shortage of more than 120,000 doctors in the next 10 years.
Assume you are a new MD, would you chose to move to Illinois where your high average income will be a top target for taxes? Of course, that nice house you want to own will come with outrageous property taxes.
Recruiting of physicians into the state is already a challenge, made only worse by the threat of a progressive tax structure. Health care access will only get worse, impacting the “livability” of the state that thinks they will improve the quality of life by taxing the wealthiest.
It’s a viscous cycle.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:49 am
SSL is right. No one knows how big the fallout from the SALT cap is going to be. JB wants higher taxes on the wealthy and lower taxes on mostly everyone else. We don’t know what those brackets are. We also don’t know what kind of tax table we will get. Who’s going to be paying over 4.95%?
Comment by steve Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:58 am
==It’s a complex issue influenced by many factors. The decisions made by the new administration will either slow the recent trend or exacerbate it==
Absolutely. The truth is, most people will stay put as long as they can do better economically here than they can elsewhere. The goal for Gov. Pritzker has to be growing the economy such that this balance is not upset. Obviously, people will still leave (or not come) based on political ideology, gun laws, weather, etc., but most will make the decision for financial reasons. And for most people, whose home is their largest and most visible investment, real estate prices (whose enemy is high real estate taxes), will be a large factor in that decision. The Gov. has a difficult path to tread.
Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:02 pm
=The Tribune’s usual shtick=
Is why I won’t buy or read that rag.
Comment by A 400lb. Guy on a bed Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:08 pm
Downstate that is all over the US. And not just limited to doctors.
According to the Census Bureau National Population Projection by 2030 20% of the population will be 67 years or older, the first time in US history senior outnumbered chidren. Finding people of working age will be a challenge everywhere. Our nation needs to encourage more people to immigrant here.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:09 pm
I moved just short of 4 years ago. From Naperville/Plainfield to San Antonio area in Tx.
I will say there was a drive on the tax side (at the time it was 5% income) but it is a lot of things. Sales tax on gas, and other things makes gas higher priced, my house (here valued at almost $1M) and I only pay 11-12K in property taxes. No income tax (raise for me) and lower or = sales tax (lower if compared to when I lived in cook county).
Add to that the OUTLOOK for gov in Illinois and I decided to leave.
The thing lots of people miss on is that those of us that CAN leave are generally the ones you dont want to leave.
Comment by Ron - In Texas Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:10 pm
The median family income in Illinois is $80,000. Would love to see what the progressive taxers think the tax rates will be that won’t affect the middle class.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:15 pm
===It’s fascinating and revealing that the tronc edit board continues to flog its exodus story===
I think they’ve been watching their subscriptions decline year-in and year-out and have simply concluded that their readers are moving away when in reality they are simply no longer interested in paying for what the Tribune is offering.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:16 pm
If you keep talking about moving from Illinois but haven’t, please go! As long as you stay, you’re contradicting your own arguments. Something here must be better than elsewhere, otherwise you’d be gone already…..
Comment by PotLobster Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:16 pm
Ron in texas - good riddance.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:20 pm
–Let’s consider the most dramatic fallout from progressive taxes in Illinois. It may well drive out the wealthiest from our state.–
LOL, let’s treat any unsupported, speculative doomsday scenario I dream up as gospel, for the sake of supporting my conclusion.
–It’s a viscous cycle.–
It’s thick alright. Barnyard-thick.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:20 pm
PotLobster, great idea to push more people out. Illinois likely to lose 2 seats in Congress after the next census. A fiscal and political disaster is what we are witnessing.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:21 pm
Virtually every newspaper in the country is losing subscribers.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:23 pm
A good definition of taxes is : “Taxes are charges imposed by a legislative body upon persons and property in order to raise money for public purposes.” Either we have to want less from government or be willing to pay more in taxes for those public purposes. Too long we in Illinois have had champagne tastes but only beer incomes. I am a conservative on fiscal issues and a closer to the middle on social issues and I am a republican. The people spoke in November 2018. Now we are going to have to live with the outcome. I have lived in Illinois my entire life, and I love the Land of Lincoln, BUT I will travel to Florida in the spring and look for a new place to call home.
Comment by the old man Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:25 pm
==PotLobster, great idea to push more people out. Illinois likely to lose 2 seats in Congress after the next census. A fiscal and political disaster is what we are witnessing.==
I’d say if it’s the kind of Congressmen who voted to cap my property tax deduction, I may be OK with that….
Comment by PotLobster Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:27 pm
@Anon…
“Ron in texas - good riddance.”
sorry you feel that way. I grew up in Illinois. Heck I still visit this blogs and keep up on the comings and goings. I grew up at 63rd & Harlem, went to school there. Came back after I got out of the military. Married a local girl from Oak Lawn, season tix to the Bears… children in school there…
Sorry, but I want Illinois to succeed, I just dont have a lot of faith right now in its direction and believe it could be better. That sentiment you have is like a customer service agent saying that to a customer not happy with the product. I think our gov (your gov) needs to think less like that… Just saying.
Comment by Ron - In Texas Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:32 pm
==Ron== Hurricane Harvey cost the Federal Gov. 125 Billion in Texas aid. I think it is reasonable to ask, after the next Hurricane devastates the Houston developed floodplain basin, that Texas enact an income tax and start pulling their own weight, instead of mooching off the rest of us.
https://www.thebalance.com/hurricane-harvey-facts-damage-costs-4150087
Comment by Anotheretiree Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:33 pm
In a state utterly deprived of quality natural areas, why would anyone with a yearning for the great outdoors not be looking elsewhere to live? Corn/bean factory land just don’t cut it. And IL government is serving big Ag’s interests first and foremost, sacrificing the quality of rural living.
Comment by vole Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:34 pm
Anotheretiree
come on down… you look at one number to bash an entire state. Nice try. sorry, I wont start a silly argument here in the comments. There is a prob in Illinois, with a ton of factors. Ignoring them wont help. Changes can drive pop growth and tax revenue.
Comment by Ron - In Texas Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:38 pm
“We’re all gonna die”. No truer words have ever been printed. Unfortunately some of us are closer than others.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:40 pm
If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. The rest of us will be fine without you.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:42 pm
old man, but that’s the problem I have. We don’t get “champagne” services at all. In fact we have middling to low quality government service at a high cost.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:48 pm
In a few years when I retire from the state I will be leaving
Looking forward to collecting my pension and warmer weather
Kids not in the area so as soon as I can. I am gone
Comment by Nick Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:58 pm
===In other words, most people generally leave when they can’t afford to stay.===
Given the highly regressive tax system in Illinois, the effective tax rate is highest on those with annual incomes under $25,000.
=== Illinois has had negative overall net domestic migration for nearly a century ===
Madigan’s fault.
Comment by anon2 Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:04 pm
I like having representation in Congress. That’s where the power lies at the national level. If you are mad about your property taxes, you should vote out the pols in Illinois that love government for the government, by the government.
Comment by Giroud Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:04 pm
The Tribune article is such bad journalism I do not know where to start.
===Cuomo partially blames the departure of wealthy residents from his high-tax state in the wake of federal tax reform===
And jumping on the pathetic journalism bandwagon is the WSJ.
===The Wall Street Journal reports that growing numbers of wealthy tax refugees from New York, New Jersey and Illinois are showing up in Miami to buy condos.===
Departure of wealthy residents?? Really? Below is a link to a Guardian Long Read about the new “pencil thin” skyscraper explosion in New York City.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/05/super-tall-super-skinny-super-expensive-the-pencil-towers-of-new-yorks-super-rich
Maybe they are not “leaving” New York as much as having a second residence in Miami to lower their taxes. Call them what they are —-Tax Dodgers.
And judge by the prices to live in those pencil skyscrapers high taxes is not going to determine where they live.
When the recent property purchases of Ken Griffin is the yearly budget of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services then something is wrong with our society
Comment by Big Jer Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:04 pm
==good riddance.==
This message brought to you by the taxpayer funded Illinois Office of Tourism. Come for the crippling pension debt, leave for the slow-witted insults.
Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:18 pm
— Anon - Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 12:42 pm:
The rest of us will be fine without you.—–
Have you taken an economics course lately?
You might study Illinois Democrats efforts to increase taxes on the rolling stock of trucking firms. They more than tripled the taxes and promptly saw overall revenue decline.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:22 pm
Love to see all all the libs bury their heads in the sand and say this isn’t a real problem, and if it is then it’s bc blacks are leaving Chicago. Obviously none of you go downstate, where all races are fleeing the taxes and related loss of opportunity. For a state that needs every taxpayer possible this is a huge issue to face as we attempt to get out of this mess.
Comment by ExHoosier Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:24 pm
==we have middling to low quality government service==
What examples do you have of that? Be specific. You’ve made that claim before yet provide nothing of substance to back it up. All I continuously hear is your constant whining about “unfair pensions.”
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:25 pm
–Obviously none of you go downstate, where all races are fleeing the taxes and related loss of opportunity.–
Rural America has been depopulating for 100 years, yet overall population was increasing, both due to a number of factors.
Why did you come to Illinois from Indiana, anyway? The waters?
Any empirical evidence you’d care to present would be welcome. Whiny rants have been acknowledged already.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:29 pm
==you look at one number to bash an entire state.==
125 billion.
That’s a mighty big number. Some would say Texas size.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:43 pm
==Love to see all all the libs==
You lost all hope of having any sort of intelligent comment come after that statement. Once you go there you simply become a partisan hack.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 1:56 pm
==you look at one number to bash an entire state.==
To be fair, Texas is a national leader in people living in poverty, as well.
You know what they say in Texas — thank goodness for Mississippi.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:09 pm
Pardon, meant to post link.
https://talkpoverty.org/state-year-report/texas-2018-report/
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:13 pm
Ron - as another former resident of the 63rd and Harlem neighborhood, I’m sorry you left. Unlike others, I can’t blame you. Many of us are on the clock with regard to living in this state. Some just have more time left than others.
I’d also like to see the state succeed, but I’m skeptical because the last 35 years have been awful to watch. A death spiral.
Those in denial chose to ignore the dire fiscal position that state finds itself in, and claim the rating agencies are incompetent. Just raise taxes is the battle cry, with no accountability for mismanagement, incompetence or outright corruption.
The new governor has the unenviable task of fixing what may be unfixable. He lacks governmental experience, which isn’t going to help. At least he has Madigan and Cullerton to guide him.
Comment by SSL Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:22 pm
==Love to see all all the libs bury their heads in the sand and say this isn’t a real problem==
You lost me when you used the word “libs” to describe people who dare disagree with you. Make a grown-up argument and get a grown-up response.
Comment by supplied_demand Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:29 pm
=The Wall Street Journal reports that growing numbers of wealthy tax refugees from New York, New Jersey and Illinois are showing up in Miami to buy condos.=
New Yorkers buying condos in Miami……this is news?
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:33 pm
I’ve been pretty adamant that the state must pay its pension obligations. It is a promise the state made and has to stand behind. This question won’t change this position.
That said, Im just curious: How many of the people on here who say they are leaving or have left the state are government employees? I just want to know what percentage of the pensions I keep saying we have to protect will be received out of state….
Comment by PotLobster Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:35 pm
Champaign’s population is growing, so, it seems like a contributing factor would be is more and more young people feel as though it sucks to be in a dying city or jerk-water rural village…
Comment by Don Gerard Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:40 pm
==as another former resident of the 63rd and Harlem neighborhood==
I’m surprised you guys aren’t still stuck behind the never-ending freight trains.
==How many of the people on here who say they are leaving or have left the state are government employees?==
Though they often sound like they are, public employees are not indentured servants of the state. They are free to leave like the rest of us.
Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:44 pm
=Obviously none of you go downstate, where all races are fleeing the taxes and related loss of opportunity.=
So taxes are to blame for the loss of opportunity? You’ll have to show your work on that one. The reality is that for the past few decades we’ve shifted from a manufacturing economy to a services and technology economy. The opportunities are now clustered around major metro areas. That’s where the jobs and people are. And it ain’t going to change. Manufacturing isn’t coming back to rural America because the economics don’t support it. Decent wage jobs have been supplanted by cheap overseas labor which will ultimately be supplanted by machines. Blaming the problem on taxes shows a lack of understanding of how we got to this point. If anything its the collar counties of Chicago that should be outraged as it’s their taxes that are keeping downstate afloat.
Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 2:47 pm
I’m 36, with 15 years in as a gov’t employee and I fully intend to depart once I’m of age to draw on my pension. I love IL, and have considered keeping a small apartment in Chicago, but I was born and have spent my early years in NYC and, for me, NYC’s a bigger draw on many levels. I intend to return as soon I am able and it is prudent.
Comment by RoscoeRatMatt Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 3:40 pm
I live downstate, own a home in a township and my taxes are cheap as dirt. My property values never increase, but i am happy with my low bill and limited services. These places exist in Illinois.
If you want services and increasing property values, you have to pay for it.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 4:12 pm
City Zen, I was back in the old hood a few months ago and sure enough, got stuck by the double barrel train shotgun. One heading out just about finished when another one heading in came through. All I could do was laugh.
Comment by SSL Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 4:13 pm
Ignoring the property taxes is convenient. Mine are close to 5% of my gross.
So if it’s not taxes (property and fees included), then why are we suffering population many times worse than the neighbors? You can’t blame weather or lack of infrastructure when you compare us to the rest of the Midwest. I blame decades of bad governance which has culminated in this slow motion disaster, including the over-reliance on a punishing property tax system.
Comment by Shemp Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 4:51 pm
Unless all exiting residents are required to answer a detailed questionnaire while hooked up to a polygraph, drawing conclusions on why people leave the state is absurd.
Comment by Cook County Commoner Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 5:22 pm
I am a state employee. I will retire in 2-4 years I was born and raised here. But I will be leaving once I retire
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 7:18 pm
- middle class thoughts - Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:46 am:
“Middle class people with property taxes over $1000/mo have seen their property value deflate and most can’t afford to retire with that load on their monthly budget.”
If you can afford a house that big, you ain’t middle class. Property taxes on my condo run $3k/yr, nowhere close to 1k/mo.
Comment by Odysseus Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 8:16 pm
–I’d also like to see the state succeed, but I’m skeptical because the last 35 years have been awful to watch. A death spiral.–
You stayed someplace that you believe has been in a “death spiral” for 35 years? You’re not exactly an energetic, go-getter type, are you?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 6, 19 @ 11:18 pm
I just make sure to take plenty of vacations so the drudgery of Illinois doesn’t drag me down. Your concern for me is heartwarming and I do appreciate it.
Comment by SSL Thursday, Feb 7, 19 @ 6:48 am
Downstate is correct. Very, very hard to attract or retain physicians (and some other professions) in Illinois.
I know multiple people who have either moved or are planning to move from Illinois.
Comment by logic not emotion Thursday, Feb 7, 19 @ 8:48 am
–I just make sure to take plenty of vacations so the drudgery of Illinois doesn’t drag me down.–
Life must be good when you can take “plenty” of out-of-state vacations.
Doesn’t it ever occur to you that you can “escape the drudgery” forever? Are your feet in cement? Or do you just like to whine?
–Very, very hard to attract or retain physicians (and some other professions) in Illinois.–
Who is supposed to be “attracting” physicians? Is that part of your centralized planned economy?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Feb 7, 19 @ 9:04 am
When it behooves me to escape the drudgery forever, I will. What you refer to as whining, I think of as stating the blatantly obvious so that others may benefit from my vast experience and wisdom. Peace to you.
Comment by SSL Thursday, Feb 7, 19 @ 9:15 am
–When it behooves me to escape the drudgery forever, I will.–
No doubt it must somehow be in your self-interest to remain in a death-spiral of drudgery for 35 years, as it’s blatantly obvious we all have free will and are solely responsible for our choices.
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Feb 7, 19 @ 10:12 am