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C’mon, Greg

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As Gov. J.B. Pritzker prepares for talks with legislative leaders about possible tax rates and income levels for a progressive income tax in Illinois, a pro-business group is calling for those discussions to be done in public. […]

Greg Baise, the leader of Ideas Illinois, a group formed to oppose a graduated income tax system in the state, said any such negotiations should be done in the open, especially around tax time.

“As they prepare for April 15 this year, people are sort of paying attention to [income taxes] right now,” Baise said. “So we’re suggesting let’s have openness and transparency. Politicians love to talk about that until they want to start talking about your money.” […]

A spokesman for House Speaker Michael Madigan, D-Chicago, said he’s “not aware of any plans” for a leaders’ meeting to discuss the rates of a progressive tax.

“The Senate President looks forward to a comprehensive, bipartisan discussion this session. For years people have been saying Illinois should be more like our neighboring states that have more modern and fairer tax systems,” Senate President John Cullerton’s spokesman John Patterson said in an email.

Baise ably ran the Illinois Manufacturers Association for over a quarter of a century. He started life as a political golden boy who became Gov. Jim Thompson’s patronage chief and transportation secretary. That Greg Baise would’ve laughed off any suggestion that leaders meetings be held in public.

Also, as he well knows, if you’re completely opposed to a proposal from the get-go, you don’t get an invite to the table. Why negotiate with a solid “No”?

posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:33 am

Comments

This issue seems to be bringing out the worst in the far right. It would be a toss up of who is acting more ridiculously, Baise or “Hurricane” Kristen in the Trib.

Comment by Ole' Nelson Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:37 am
Greg should call Pate to see what he or Carter would have done with that suggestion.

Comment by Give Me A Break Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:39 am
Just finished my Illinois income taxes for 2018. Total income was $152,796, mostly from my pension and IRA distributions. Total tax $615. What a great state. Feel a little guilty but not too much.

Comment by striketoo Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:40 am
There’s not much to negotiate. You are either for a flat income tax or not. If you have a progressive income tax rates can change often because a flat tax puts everyone in the same boat making changes in the tax code more difficult. The best thing the GOP has going for them is the coming political corruption indictments by May 3 : that will make some people much more cynical abut state and local government in Illinois and raising taxes.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/?post_type=cst_article&p=1872663

Comment by Steve Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:42 am
Baiser lookin’ more like the new version of Spanky The Clown of IL politics in later life. Recent performances dismal. Gotta think who ever is bankrolling this Think Like West Indiana brain storm will give him the hook soon. Wasn’t that live meeting stuff a failed GovJunk stunt?

Comment by Annonin' Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:42 am
It’s amazing to hear stories of longtime pols who make suggestions counter to their own experience.

Comment by Levois Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:45 am
–If you have a progressive income tax rates can change often because a flat tax puts everyone in the same boat making changes in the tax code more difficult.–

Say what now?

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:46 am
I take it Greg Baise is fine with the infrastructure we have now.

Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:48 am
I wonder how Baise would feel about the implementation of a retirement income tax? Our flat-tax neighbors all seem to have this in one form or another. Those flat tax proponents who point their finger at those states never seem to mention this… We can not have our cake, eat it, and complain about the sorry state Illinois is in if we are not willing to do anything about it.

Comment by Gogo Yubari Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:48 am
Blaise is just working the narrative, building a vocal opposition to the progressive Tax. Goal is a strong coalition of opposition that will be motivated to vote no on the CA. It is along game and of course the Gov will reject the offer, but Blaise is keeping it in the news. Mission accomplished.

Comment by Donnie Elgin Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:49 am
===Say what now?===

The commenter is right, which is a huge reason why the big guns are out for this. Right now, raising the income tax means raising it on everybody. That ain’t easy. In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:50 am
BTW Katrina is pushing some nonsense from a Naples FL paper and has twitter followers that include noted cyberattack victim/victor Sandy Sandeck

Comment by Annonin' Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:51 am
=== That Greg Baise would’ve laughed off any suggestion that leaders meetings be held in public. ===

Exactly. This kind of astute observation is why Rich gets paid the big bucks.

Baise’s end game is to try and stop graduated income tax period. Obviously, he’s not serious about negotiating anything. To paraphrase Yev Kassem, no talks for you.

Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:56 am
I understand that Baise is cashing the checks, but I don’t get why he is the public face for this effort.

He’s a rich, wired-to-both-parties, shiny-wingtips lobbyist and political operative.

That’s the working-class hero who’s the public face of building a statewide grass-roots movement?

The dude got beat by Pat Quinn when he put himself out front statewide before.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:57 am
Only people on this blog would argue that decision making in back rooms is a good thing.

Comment by Not It Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am
“I take it Greg Baise is fine with the infrastructure we have now.” Well, you know if we cut out the waste, fraud and abuse, we’d have plenty of money to fix it and cut taxes [/snark]

Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am
–In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.–

Maybe, maybe not. No proposed amendment has surfaced yet.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am
There should be an addition to the constitutional amendment that if the progressive tax comes to be that every new dollar generated go exclusively to the pension fund for the next 25 years.

40 years of madigan’s leadership tells us that if a new pile of money shows up in revenues it will be spent on everything except what it should be.

Looking at the other high tax states with progressive income taxes on the east coast is a look into our future.

We are already like 2nd in the country in overall tax burden, and are losing population.

Further large hikes aren’t going to make this state any cheaper.

The restrained income tax level of 5% is the only thing we had going for us compared to our neighbors, but when that is gone we will suddenly have the clean sweep of highest income taxes, sales, property and business taxes.

Without some sort of mechanism to keep them from continually fussing with the rates we will be looking at the beginning of a death spiral as more people leave and taxes have to keep going higher to fill in the gap.

God help us if we lose a few of the super wealthy like NY has that has blown a hole in their budget.

The only saving grace is that with the Salt cap in place now people will feel every dollar of tax increase since the days of just writing it all off are over.

Comment by Anon Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:02 am
=== that has blown a hole in their budget===

Statement not based in fact.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:04 am
===Only people on this blog===

lol

You can always leave.

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:07 am
===40 years of madigan’s leadership===

Edgar Ramp.

Governors own.

You’re welcome.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:09 am
=== In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.===

Maybe, maybe not. The state constitution that created an income tax linked personal rates to corporate rates to alleviate similar concerns. No reason to believe this amendment won’t propose a similar linkage in the rates to remove the temptation to hike taxes on the rich only. The hysteria is a bit much and a bit premature, don’t you think?

Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:12 am
The pension funds were the piggy bank we raided because the income structure ibn the state changed radically since 1970 which is why we have to change the tax structure.

Comment by Not a Billionaire Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:15 am
=== You can always leave. ===

Only people on this blog would ridicule someone who complains about people on this blog being against openness and transparency when it comes to raising taxes.

People on this blog adore taxes. They love them. Their entire livelihoods depend on taxes and more taxes.

Comment by Not It Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:19 am
Baise’s motivation is hoping to be able to catch the talks online via Blueroom Stream so he doesn’t have to leave the Florida golf course while still getting paid to “work” in Illinois.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:24 am
“Only people on this blog would argue that decision making in back rooms is a good thing”

You’ve never heard of haggling, have you? Or changing your mind, or rough drafts? It’s much, much harder for pols to give ground after they’ve made a public statement supporting (or not supporting) a particular approach. That’s just off the top of my head. Do better.

Comment by Perrid Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:30 am
–In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks.–
And they could also decide to lower those first. Probably not the smartest political move but possible.

Comment by Been There Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:34 am
Bite me Not it
Only someone malignantly
Calloused to their
Privilege
would think that only a
certain group
“livelihoods depend on taxes and more taxes”
All of us rely on
good governance
and the redistribution of
taxed revenues for
the common good of Illinoisans
Roads, Water systems,
Community care, economic development,
so many things
rely on tax revenue.

Only the privileged
don’t understand that.
thus they are callous
to the point of being a sociopath
like Rauner

Comment by Honeybear Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:34 am
–Only people on this blog would ridicule someone who complains about people on this blog being against openness and transparency when it comes to raising taxes.–

I’m guessing that’s what you hope for. Exercise your victim jones, tickle your grievances.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:36 am
There seem to be two opposite arguments against the fair tax. One is that after a graduated tax, poor and middle income people will have their taxes raised. The graduated tax by itself doesn’t raise taxes, but Illinois’ need are so great that lawmakers, in a second step, will raise eveyone’s taxes.

The second argument is that this is a type of class warfare and the fair tax is an attempt to get everyone to agree to a tax increase because only rich people will get their taxes raised. Both arguments can’t be true.

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:59 am
>No reason to believe this amendment won’t propose a similar linkage in the rates to remove the temptation to hike taxes on the rich only.

That would be a good argument for engaging in the process and making it bipartisan rather than going all in for defeating the amendment.

Comment by Earnest Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:01 am
–There should be an addition to the constitutional amendment that if the progressive tax comes to be that every new dollar generated go exclusively to the pension fund for the next 25 years.–

Whoever wishes to promote that better take a seat at the table.

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:21 am
Curious as to who the anti-progressive-tax advertiser is at the top of the blog. The links are to IPI material. Is it them?

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:55 am
The problem with JB’s fair tax “solution” is it will only pay for more spending (we cannot afford) and we will continue to short the pension funds ($800 million dollars a year) while not reforming them.

His “trust us most people will come out ahead” rings hollow if they understand he did not fix the problem and lawmakers will be back asking for more sooner than you think.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:03 pm
@Not It

The negative consequences Sunshine Laws have had on governance is something that a lot of Political Scientists have been looking into in recent years. This is hardly a discussion that you’d only find in this comment section.

I won’t link to those academic articles as you may not have access, but if you do have access to a Jstore or Ebsco account I suggest looking it up. The research is really fascinating.

The article I link to below is free to access and lays out the basic negative consequences of increased public scrutiny. I personally don’t agree with everything said, but it’s interesting.

Like the article and the researchers I’ve read say, pointing out these negative consequences isn’t saying that increased openness in governance is bad. It only means there are trade-offs that need to be considered when opening up things such as this leadership meeting to public scrutiny.

Do we really need more public posturing for the cameras, or do we need an honest discussion between those in power about a very contentious issue? I mean we did elect these individuals to represent us after all.

You can of course weigh those pros and cons, and come to a conclusion yourself.

http://www.governing.com/columns/smart-mgmt/col-dark-side-transparency-government.html

Comment by Chicago_Downstater Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:15 pm
== Only people on this blog would argue that decision making in back rooms is a good thing ==

Soup doesn’t get made in the dining room; it gets chopped up and mixed up in the kitchen.

Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:15 pm
== 40 years of madigan’s leadership tells us that if a new pile of money shows up in revenues it will be spent on everything except what it should be. ==

Exactly what happened after the flat income tax was implemented. The initial rates had some padding in them to allow for new spending. There was so much new spending they started shorting the pension payments in the FY75 budget. Basically took them 2-3 budget years to blow all the new revenue.

Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:19 pm
If people trust our elected officials, who got us into this fiscal mess in the first place, they’ll vote overwhelmingly in support of the progressive tax. Of course, if they feel that the public officials can’t be trusted to use new revenue in the best interests of the people of Illinois, they might not be so supportive.

Now I’m not a betting man, but if I were, I know where I’d put my money on the trust issue.

Opponents should feature Madigan and Cullerton in every commercial.

Comment by SSL Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:22 pm
===Opponents should feature Madigan and Cullerton in every commercial. ===

Why clutter it up with Cullerton? /s

Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:25 pm
==Opponents should feature Madigan and Cullerton in every commercial.==

Except for that Cullerton guy, I think that’s recently been tried.

Comment by don the legend Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:45 pm
Greg Baise started out walking Jim Thompson’s dog at the Kane County Fair.

Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:38 pm
== Greg Baise started out walking Jim Thompson’s dog at the Kane County Fair. ==

Only difference is the dogs he is trying to walk now can only bark … no bite left.

Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:10 pm
I find it interesting that some progressive tax opponents on here as well as the paid anto progressive tax advertisement refer to progressive tax states on the East coast.
I wonder why they don’t refer to progressive tax states in the Midwest, closer to home? The answer is that those states are doing well so that doesn’t fit the narrative of their argument.

Comment by The Dude Abides Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:46 pm
If the past is any indicator, “serious “ discussions should begin May 30th.

Comment by Flyer Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:19 pm
== In the future, the GA could choose to only raise the rates on the wealthier folks. ==

Which is exactly why there needs to be a maximum multiplier like there is now between the personal and corporate rates. Failing that, I’m upping my investment in moving company stock.

Comment by Right Field Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:38 pm
Hey, LP….do cease and desist with your “pension reform” gripes. Unless YOU have a competent and sound solution that doesn’t violate the State constitution AND the US Constitution’s contracts clause, then I believe the ILSC has already rendered their opinion on this issue.

We have to pay up, point blank. No other way around it. You know what to do if you don’t like what’s going on in Illinois.

With all due respect.

Comment by Southsider Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:42 pm
It really is interesting watching this entire debate roll out. Widescale opposition in Illinois to an idea that was invented in the United States and implemented widely here and abroad at the beginning of the last century because…exceptionalism?

Is there such a thing as Illinois Exceptionalism?

Comment by NomChompsky Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:52 pm
==We have to pay up, point blank. No other way around it. You know what to do if you don’t like what’s going on in Illinois==

From the old joke, “What do you mean “we”, Paleface?”

Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:04 pm
==Greg should call Pate to see what he or Carter would have done with that suggestion.==

AMEN. 100%

And a good number of commentators here would do well to look up Pate Philip and Carter Hendon

Comment by low level Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:57 pm
–And a good number of commentators here would do well to look up Pate Philip and Carter Hendon–

You mean those guys Madigan controlled all those years?

Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:30 pm
==From the old joke, “What do you mean “we”, Paleface?”==

We, as in the denizens of Illinois. Taxpayers.

Comment by Southsider Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:37 pm
===Taxpayers===

We’re all taxpayers.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:44 pm
===And a good number of commentators here would do well to look up Pate Philip and Carter Hendon===

It would behoove a commenter or two if the read McKinney’s, Vock’s, and Rich Miller’s takes on the overall “blame game”

Lots of names, including Madigan, and including a boat load of others.

Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:48 pm
==People on this blog adore taxes. They love them. Their entire livelihoods depend on taxes and more taxes==

That person in particular should see how much the Senate Republicans loved taxes in Pate’s era. Or those that graduated college in Thompson’s administration then went to work for the state for 30 years. That was something else for devotees of “smaller government”

Comment by low level Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:58 pm
Low level, you need to learn how to spell the people you ask folks to look up.

Comment by Norseman Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:13 pm
^. Noted

Comment by low level Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 11:54 am

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