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* Gov. Pritzker sat down with the Daily Herald editorial board yesterday. I’m still going through the whole thing, but he said this when asked why people were moving out of state…
I think there are several reasons. One is that we have been significantly underfunding education in the state and one of the reasons that business and jobs get created in the state is because it has great talent and it invests in that talent. That’s certainly why people come here on a day like this when it’s below zero. Why would a business choose Illinois? It’s because we’ve got great people, we have terrific talent. And it’s because we have great universities, and because we are producing great talent that we can work in those businesses.
But not if you don’t invest in it. So, we lose people in part because we aren’t continuing to invest in the talent that we need. We lose people because we have a property tax system that overburdens people. And we lose people because when you don’t fund universities, and when you threaten not to fund MAP grants, tens of thousands, it turns out it’s more than 72 thousand, young people choose not to go to school in Illinois and when they leave about 70 percent of them don’t come back. So those are all things that contribute to why people leave.
He was kind of all over the place there, but your thoughts on what he said?
…Adding… Related…
* Wooing Illinois to Indiana? It’s not just businesses doing it - A Chicago real estate agent is sprinkling Illinois suburbs with postcards pitching affluent homeowners on the property tax benefits of jumping the border. The only hitch: She hasn’t found any takers yet: In the three weeks since sending the first postcard, Pender said, she hasn’t received any calls from Cook County residents asking to look at her Indiana listings.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:31 am
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People leave because they get tired of a State Government that doesn’t work. A State Government that continues the same bad practices year after year.. a broken property tax system, gutless leaders who play fiscal games (another pension holiday), and 6 months of winter.
Comment by Wow Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:40 am
Illinois is never going to be the cheapest place to do business. He’s right in that what we have going for us is, with all due respect to downstate, Chicago and it’s economy, great research universities, and relatively affordable cost of living compared to a New York, LA, DC etc.
Yeah, we’ve got our problems, but it’s our underfunding of our key assets that have been the issue.
Comment by curtis Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:41 am
Educational funding, taxation, and certainly climate could make folks wonder if they could port their current job elsewhere. Opportunities are everywhere these days. Have any of you NOT thought about leaving?
Comment by en absentia Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:42 am
We rank 14th in per pupil spending on education at $14,180 just behind the great state of Maryland. We spend more than all of our neighboring states as well as progressive Minnesota and California.
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
Stop denying the business and tax environment are not factors JB.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:42 am
It’s the weather, weather, and weather.
Comment by Barrington Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:42 am
ANyone who points to one reason, and says if we just fix X everything would be perfect, is either fooling themselves, trying to sell you something, or both.
All of his points seem right to me. He could have delivered them in a more focused way.
Comment by Perrid Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:43 am
“According to an analysis of IRS data done by Travis Brown, author of “How Money Walks”, New York lost more wealth from 1992 to 2016 than any other state — $99.5 billion (measured in adjusted gross income). California was next at $58.6 billion, followed by Illinois at $50.1 billion and New Jersey at $35.4 billion. Not surprisingly, their population migrations in a similar time frame (1985 to 2016) mirrored their loss of wealth.
In the Empire State, 1,753,574 residents called a moving van and hit the road, many heading for low-tax states. Illinois saw 729,881 of its residents leave; California, 648,072; and New Jersey, 541,834.”
Saw this last night in an article on roll call (a political site) about high tax states.
We are one of the highest total tax burden states in the country, and jb is trying to argue people are leaving because we don’t spend/tax enough (he uses more flowery language about “investments” instead of just saying spending).
If that is what he really thinks he is completely out of touch with reality and living in a bubble.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:44 am
I think he’s right. Let’s support the things that are doing well and scrutinize the things that aren’t.
Universities are important, and he’s right about spending more money on higher education. But, you have to make the right investments. Few high school students dream of moving to Carbondale, Macomb, or Charleston. If you are out-of-state, why would you send your child to a college that’s so difficult to get to? How does the kid get home for Christmas?
I would beef up spending at Uof I and Illinois State, and the Chicago schools, while shrink and consolidate the remote schools. If our spending reflects reality instead of local special interests, we will get more value for our money.
And in terms of real estate taxes he’s exactly right. The solution? Expand your real estate tax base. There is no reason farmland should be taxed at the lowest rate in the Midwest while residential is taxed at the highest rate in the midwest
Comment by Merica Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:46 am
LP,
He was talking about higher education. And on that we are investing half as much as we did 20 years ago. So yea, kids are leaving and they’re not coming back.
Comment by Chicago Cynic Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:47 am
The cost of college in Illinois is not commensurate with other states. That likely means some families may move elsewhere for instate tuition or a student may not return to Illinois after graduation at an out-of-state school. I doubt however that the bulk of people leaving the State do so because of school funding.
Comment by anon Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:48 am
==We rank 14th in per pupil spending on education at $14,180 just behind the great state of Maryland. We spend more than all of our neighboring states as well as progressive Minnesota and California.==
However, a lot of that money comes from local property taxes and not from state government. The high property taxes create problems.
Comment by Joe M Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:48 am
Its not one reason. I left for several.
1- Tax Burden… I looked at Tx and Tn and found my property taxes would drop (almost by half), no income tax, and my sales tax (moving from cook cty) droped several points.
2-Gov… I had a lack of faith that our gov would be able to find a good way out
3- overall cost of living has dropped
4-My daughter’s schools are now top 500 in the nation.
5- Weather - If everything else was fine, Weather wouldnt have killed me. But with the cost of living, taxes and lack of faith in the politicians to be able to straighten things out, it became a reason to leave.
As a note, my parents (in cook county) have said forever that they would never leave… Just called last week and asked to chat about Tenn, and Texas and what moving costs, what taxes are really like, how to look for something out of state and move.
These are people that have lived and worked here for decades and finally have said they are willing to leave.
This stuff is scary.
Comment by Ron - In Texas Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:50 am
I think he wasn’t ready for the question. And there’s not a simple, one-size-fits-all “problem” that has one “fix.”
Retiring Baby Boomers moving to the Gulf Coast don’t have the same motivations as poor black people escaping the shooting galleries of the South and West Sides or the young people Downstate looking for jobs in metro areas.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:51 am
It’s a multi-faceted problem obviously with a new Salt tax problem which will only add another layer as the NYC area has discovered.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:52 am
Some more “unpacking” that supports what Pritzker said about investing in talent…
http://www.nprillinois.org/post/illinois-issues-rural-exodus#stream/0
Comment by Anon221 Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:54 am
I want to say the weather, but Indiana, Wisconsin & Minnesota aren’t losing population.
Ultimately it’s about jobs & education - if people can find jobs and good schools for their kids, they’ll come or stay. If not, they’ll move somewhere where they can find that.
Comment by Grand Avenue Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:54 am
I think he’s right, but there’s more that should be added. That is, it all comes down to what kind of state we want to be and how are we investing to get there. Investment, as always, is important. However, how does our investment reflect our values - it must be deliberate, so as to get us to a goal or foundation. So if we want to be the education state, then how are we investing there so that stakeholders feel the impact and want to embrace Illinois education. If we want to be the pro-business state, again, how are we investing there so that stakeholders feel the impact. We can do this all day, but what I am not hearing in a clear and concise matter is the “why”. Why choose Illinois over any other state? My wife and I are looking to relocate to Austin, TX…and the why for leaving is what JB said and then some.
Comment by GetOverIt Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:56 am
Guess what, when people graduate college they move to the states with good jobs and growing economies. Illinois ranks a pitiful 34th despite all of our natural advantages.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy/growth
Illinois should be trying desperately to attract businesses, not chase them out of Illinois.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:57 am
==He was talking about higher education. And on that we are investing half as much as we did 20 years ago.==
20 years ago, the state’s contribution to SURS was $225 million. Last year, it was $1.6 billion.
That’s our investment.
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:58 am
Everybody who moves out of Illinois has their own reason, and it mostly has to do with seeking something else. Could be better job opportunities, could be better weather, could be to move closer to family, could be a combination of things.
I think for some, a tiny majority, it’s a combination of those things above and a desire for lower taxes. I doubt people flee Illinois over taxes alone, although there might be a few tortured examples. And outside of this blog, I doubt very much people are so sick and tired of State government (or local government) that it forces them to move away. We’re nerds here, we pay way more attention to politics than 99% of Illinoisans.
The simple fact is fewer and fewer people are needed to perform agricultural and mining jobs. Most manufacturing is being automated. The jobs that lured people to Illinois for decades aren’t here anymore and haven’t been since 1970. It’s been a downward slide since then.
What jobs remain are increasingly either highly skilled knowledge economy or low skilled service jobs. That’s true of the entire country. So if you’re looking for the state where an under-educated guy can pull down six figures doing low skill work, you should move to the state of denial. Or go back to school.
Pritzker is mostly right.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:59 am
We have strengths that no other midwest states have, mostly related to the economic vibrancy of Chicagoland. Play on those and make improvements, including safety, infrastructure, education, and effectiveness (honesty) of government to deliver services at a reasonable price. Maybe even tweak some business climate issues, but don’t give away the farm because businesses will never be satisfied. If we pay our bills and make responsible decisions for the future, our descendants just might believe that there is a future for them here, too.
We will never keep people who despise the weather or progressive politics, and we shouldn’t try.
Comment by Jibba Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:04 am
Anon @10:44 Travis Brown is a hack that has co-written books with Arthur Laffer, architect of Reaganomics. https://i.imgflip.com/wj62b.jpg
Comment by West Loop Chicago Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:05 am
West-
Being a hack doesn’t change the numbers.
He used the IRS for God sakes.
The numbers are what they are.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:09 am
People are going to Indiana because it’s a pro-business Republican paradise.
Comment by A 400lb. Guy on a bed Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:11 am
– what, when people graduate college they move to the states with good jobs and growing economies.–
Explains the building boom in the Greater Loop and the packed to the gills Red Line trains.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:14 am
Some truth to what he says. But outmigration’s a big complex set of issues and the gov’s statement mostly misses the boat by days– not minutes.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:14 am
Funny, I thought the CTA told us the red line trains were going to be packed to the gills if we didn’t give them the funding (that we didn’t give them). Word, you’re right to point out that the outmigration figures conflate a more complicated story and include African-Americans leaving for “non-Tronc reasons” but the building boom downtown isn’t all attributable to the state attracting all sorts of business. There’s a general trend in the entire nation towards locating from suburban and smaller urban markets to big cities. Half of Rahm’s business relocation announcements seemed to come from other places in Illinois.
Comment by lake county democrat Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:22 am
>Illinois should be trying desperately to attract businesses, not chase them out of Illinois.
Important point, though I’d argue fore more of a grow-your-own, business incubator approach for the state. I’d like to think that’s what Pritzker was trying to express but that would be reading too much into it.
As far as population loss, I agree it’s a complex issue, which weakens it as an argument for more narrowly-defined policy intentions.
Comment by Earnest Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:25 am
- “We are one of the highest total tax burden states in the country, and jb is trying to argue people are leaving because we don’t spend/tax enough (he uses more flowery language about “investments” instead of just saying spending).”
A Forbes list says that Alaska, South Dakota and Wyoming have the lowest tax burdens yet WBEZ reports the states to which Illinois has suffered the greatest net losses in population between 2011 and 2017 are Indiana, Wisconsin, Florida, Texas, and Missouri.
If Illinois residents truly are moving to other states for lower tax burdens why doesn’t Alaska, South Dakota and Wyoming make the WBEZ list?
Comment by Chicago 20 Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:29 am
I think Wordslinger makes good points that it is different reasons for different groups.
I want to add that it has not helped that for at least four years we had a Governor and the largest newspaper in the State bad mouthing the State every chance they had. They basically were/are encouraging people to flee while they have a chance.
Comment by City Guy Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:30 am
Scattershot, he definitely didn’t have a tested answer for this one. That being said, I note 2 things about further things about his tortuous answer. First off, big picture (and with the benefit of charity), I think Pritzker’s answer leaves unsaid the financial burden that lax state education funding has on municipal property taxes. Although he does not come out and say it, his answer hints at the fact that property taxes are through the roof because of poor state education funding. Second, it strikes me that all of what he discusses (MAP funding, education funding, universities, education, education, education) dovetail perfectly with his recent budget, which pumps a lot more juice towards these education initiatives.
Comment by DarkDante Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:34 am
So if we just give more money to colleges and universities, everyone will stay?
Kudos to the governor for at least not just outright blaming GuvJunk. But, weak sauce, JBP.
Comment by JB13 Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:40 am
On moving to Indiana to save property taxes…. If you move to Nortwestern Indiana to work in the Loop you would either have to take the Shoreline train or travel across the very expensive Skyway toll bridge. Neither would be very cost effective in the long run even if you saved half in property taxes. And traffic is just as bad in that direction as coming in from the western suburbs. And really, who wants to live in the land of steel mills around Hammond and Gary? I enjoy visiting that area, but I wouldn’t want to live there to save on property taxes as opposed to one of the collar counties.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:42 am
Low job growth, high taxes and bad weather are the reason we lose people. We can fix two of these, but the governor doesn’t seems to want to.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:44 am
Apparently pointing out Illinois problems and making suggesting for reversing the situation is “bad mouthing”.
What do you call the delusional “solutions” like raising taxes again and not reforming the cost drivers of the growing debt and tax hikes?
I have seen some Ostriches at Lincoln Park zoo with their heads buried in the sand who have the same issues.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:45 am
Chicago 20, every single sttae you posted has lower taxes, except WI which has similar taxes.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:47 am
Another reality I think a state like Illinois (or NJ or Cali) needs to realize is that those skilled, tech, etc workers have more mobility/flexibility than ever before. For sure the bigger the company they work for, the more options. Not a majority yet, but a lot (like me) can work for a major company (mine out of California) and live somewhere else.
I work from home, travel when I need to. this business model is expanding (will never be 100% for all jobs) and will also impact some states more. Can I work for a financial service co, or tech co, or even someone like Boeing, doing design, analysis, etc remotely?
These are good paying jobs, good tax payers, a state should want these people, not just the company.
Comment by Ron - In Texas Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 11:55 am
Manufacturing jobs have left Illinois and so have the workers that were forced to retire early or were laid off.
Comment by DeseDemDose Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:00 pm
==Few high school students dream of moving to Carbondale, Macomb, or Charleston. If you are out-of-state, why would you send your child to a college that’s so difficult to get to? How does the kid get home for Christmas? ==
Sorry, but that does not stand up to the data. The migrating students go to the University of Iowa, Iowa State, Indiana University, and the University of Missouri (top four in 2016). They go to Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio as well. None of those are easier to get to than EIU, WIU, or SIUC; all of which can be reached by Amtrak or a few hours on an interstate. The programs are just as good as well (some are better). Students chose to stay in state in the 80’s and 90’s. The big difference is cost; when we decided to stop investing in the late 90’s, our neighbors lowered their costs and started poaching our students. It has only gotten worse.
https://www.ibhe.org/assets/files/OutmigrationContext2018.pdf
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:06 pm
More here: https://www.ibhe.org/pdf/Outmigration2018EnrollmentPatterns.pdf
Our neighbors know exactly what they are doing.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:08 pm
Have a couple of kids go to college and pay somewhat more in tuition in Illinois for a few years. Have a house for 40 years, pay sky high real estate taxes every year in Illinois. For many the real estate tax burden becomes more than the mortgage.
So, where does the problem lie?
Comment by Pick a Name Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:09 pm
==20 years ago, the state’s contribution to SURS was $225 million. Last year, it was $1.6 billion.
That’s our investment. ==
That’s not an investment, it’s paying off old bills.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:10 pm
I agree Barrington. Illinois has cold, dreary winters and hot, humid summers. On top of that, Illinois doesn’t have much to do outdoors that would justify living in the climate. Can’t ski, snowmobile, etc in the winter. Few places to swim, boat, hike, etc in the summer.
Of course, jobs, taxes, etc motivate some migrants, but retirees and millennials with skills want more.
The Chicago region, with Lake Michigan, glacial lakes, well run park and forest preserve districts, and world class cultural attractions is the exception
Comment by Sir Reel Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:10 pm
property taxes so high that your house can’t appreciate in value, the federal $10,000 cap doesn’t help, sky high sales tax, horrible weather (everyone is down in the dumps this time of year) and crime running rampant. In the last year I had a car jacking on our block and an armed robbery at the local nail salon a block from our house. Young people and older people flee. The rest of us stick it out for a while while, but this is where all of the “progressive” taxes creates a tipping point. The same people who are overtaxed to begin with and now have a target on their back to pay for all of Illinois’ waste, have options, i.e. they already have second homes in Florida. 6 months and a day is all it takes.
Comment by 44th Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:18 pm
===6 months and a day is all it takes. ===
It ain’t that easy. IDOR is a monster if you try to pull that off.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:19 pm
-44th-
Wow. I thought you moved to Italy.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:29 pm
==all of the “progressive” taxes creates a tipping point===
This is a point I agree with. We need to tax sufficiently to pay for services and debt, but we should not ignore the flip side of the coin. JB should be setting up review panels to look at more efficient delivery of services in every aspect of Illinois government. This may or may not save many dollars, but spending might wisen up. For example, better mental health treatment rather than incarceration, new academic models to boost enrollment at the directional universities, where to invest in new technologies, maximizing federal dollars through our Congressional delegation, etc.
This needs to be highlighted at least as boldly as new taxation. At the very least, this would be a salve to people who feel overtaxed and overlooked.
Comment by Jibba Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:31 pm
==That’s not an investment, it’s paying off old bills.==
Old bills are the higher education investment.
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:34 pm
This is such a lame issue. Illinois has lost population for a century. Why? A century of various reasons. Refrigeration made certain areas livable. In 1935 Illinois had 231,312 farms. In 2004 there were approximately 77,000 farms. In 1955 GM was the largest employer. In 2010 Walmart was the largest employer. In the end, Illinois has lost population due to natural evolution. In 1980 Illinois’ population was 11.4 million, Indiana population was 5.5 million in 1980, as of 7/1/2018 Illinois population is estimated at 12.7 million, Indiana 6.7 million. Let’s get out of this comparison of states and just keep evolving. This culture of comparing states solves nothing and does not provide solutions.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:36 pm
For those living in Indiana and commuting… Imagine sitting in traffic every day on the Borman, 294, or the very expensive Indiana Toll Road. The South Shore rail system with limited service is the only means to avoid the parking lot known as the Dan Ryan. Also, Indiana is experiencing a teacher shortage due to low salaries. Along with that, Indiana school systems hire substitute teachers with a GED or high school diploma to fill some classes. Let’s not forget about the high levels of pollution in Northwest Indiana and IDEM looks the other way.
So, lower property taxes have consequences.
Comment by Rudy's teeth Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:41 pm
I’m not sure which is worse — whether he believes his jumbled answer or knows it’s a dodge and doesn’t really want to grapple with it all. Seems like we’ll end up in the same place.
Others have hit on most of the individual reasons. For my family, we see the State continue to elect unserious people who aren’t even remotely up to the task (across a variety of dimensions) of addressing the problems we have. And we don’t want to be here when the full effect of it all begins to set in. We are in the very early stages of looking elsewhere. Thankfully we have the ability to make a move like this — I wish all could have the option.
Comment by The Big Salad Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:47 pm
I retired a couple of years ago and am looking at maybe KY or AZ.for the future. The increased progressive movement in abortion legislation, gun restrictions and strangely the final straw, 5 cents per plastic bag has me almost to the point of starting my moving sale.
Comment by Harry O Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:48 pm
As an out-of-state immigrant living in Sangamon County for decades, see two trends not being discussed here. First, Wordslinger’s Friday post about Chicago’s black population losing 200,000 since 2000 - don’t think that is due pension costs, property taxes, etc. (remember the dust-up when Chris Kennedy said 01/03/18 that blacks were being pushed out of Chicago as part of “strategic gentrification”?). Second, outside Metro Chicago, the leading economic export of every county (Champaign and McLean might be exceptions) is high school graduates. If college graduates want to work in their hometown outside Metro Chicago, about the only guaranteed job is teacher. How many electrical engineering jobs in Henderson or Union county? Chemist jobs in White or Whiteside county? After all, isn’t that why Jim Thompson located so many new prisons in such areas?
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:50 pm
==This culture of comparing states solves nothing==
Did you know that 33 states have a progressive income tax?
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:57 pm
Maybe we should look at why people stay in Illinois. I’m guessing that most will say jobs and family. Start passing laws favorable to both.
Comment by Rural Survivor Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 12:58 pm
==The increased progressive movement in abortion legislation==
This is another real one. The recent legislative push is so shockingly appalling to us that we never want another cent of ours to go to such a bankrupt state. But the other piece is that *even if you fundamentally support* such initiatives, we find it doubly insulting that those in control have chosen to prioritize it so highly when we are already quite a liberal state as far as that all goes. It signals an absence of any rationale focus on what the State needs most urgently right now, and frankly, just an unabashed vindictiveness.
Comment by The Big Salad Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 1:08 pm
===The increased progressive movement in abortion legislation, gun restrictions and strangely the final straw, 5 cents per plastic bag===
I think you’ll be happier in Kentucky.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 1:19 pm
vindictive, adjective
having or showing a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge.
Big Salad, is that really what you meant? Serious question, because it goes to the heart of politics these days, when each side thinks the other is out to get them personally. I’m not sure how the “recent legislative push,” which presumably includes a higher minimum wage and the plastic bag tax, is vindictive. I don’t blame rank and file Rs for the Rauner disaster, so I see no reason for vindictiveness. However, I’m not sorry for wanting a state that reflects my values, so I’m happy to see progress. Do I care if it upsets you? A little, but not enough to stop any progress. A little more bipartisanship would be nice, but you can’t negotiate with “no.”
Comment by Jibba Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 1:32 pm
This is such a complex issue that is driven by multiple factors, many of which have already been mentioned.
Two quick points. JB should get better prepared for the hot topics, with a concise, thoughtful and consistent response. This is one of those topics.
There are so many stories out there on that darn internet thing about best states to move to, and the worst. Guess where we fall. Rauner didn’t help on this issue. It will take years for Illinois to repair its image. Until then, we won’t be attracting enough new residents.
Comment by SSL Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 1:35 pm
Interesting article, about how the courts have ruled on IDOR, suing to collect taxes, on people claiming residency in another state.https://www.isba.org/sections/trustsestates/newsletter/2013/02/snowbirdsflyfreeofillinoistax
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 1:55 pm
Prior to the Civil War, the South began to feel personally insulted by opinions of Northerners. So much so that they initiated the Civil War based on the “insult” of electing Lincoln, who did not share their views, but had not yet taken office, nor made any official action against them.
It is a sad and dangerous state of affairs when the mere existence of another political party is considered personally insulting, as in thinking of your opponents as vindictive when they are simply following their own political viewpoints. I also find it to be mostly from one party, rather than bipartisan. I hope you can think of them as misguided rather than vindictive, but your endtimes imagery doesn’t give me a lot of hope.
Comment by JIbba Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:02 pm
The Big Salad, speak for yourself here, not some mythical “we” or “us.”
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:04 pm
I was really hoping the new governor would bring fresh ideas to the state, but it’s more of the same can kicking and increasing taxes. I don’t see how we can stop the population loss by continuing the same failed policies.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:11 pm
=I think you’ll be happier in Kentucky.=
And that might in part explain the outward migration.
Comment by Harry O Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:27 pm
Anonymous @2:11-
It is sad that any optimism we might have had about jb being up to the task couldn’t even make the 6 week mark before he ripped the mask off to show he is more of the same.
What is more symbolic of the present state of Illinois than the new governor making one of his first big budget moves shorting the pension payment by almost a billion dollars to “save” us money.
It just never stops.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:36 pm
Did anybody really think Jay Robert would be anything different? Cmon.
This guy is being told exactly what to do and some times what to say. Remember, he has never been a leader of any type organization.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:51 pm
==Old bills are the higher education investment.==
==I retired a couple of years ago and am looking at maybe KY or AZ for the future.==
Folks lived here for 30-40 years and paid lower taxes by shorting the pension systems and not paying for capitol upkeep. Now, when the bill comes due, they complain about the bill and leave. Maybe we need to tax the folks who received the services and left without paying for them.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:52 pm
If you look at state levied taxes alone, the burden is small. But property and local sales taxes are burdensome as school districts rely more on those taxes to fund schools.
Illinois has to get property and local sales taxes under control if they want people to stay.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:54 pm
A lot of ostriches on here today. Outmigration is a problem for Illinois. Period. If you don’t want to hear it, you won’t be able to fix it.
Comment by Mr. Chairman Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 2:59 pm
“A lot of ostriches on here today. Outmigration is a problem for Illinois. Period. If you don’t want to hear it, you won’t be able to fix it.”
Outmigration is a big problem, but it won’t be fixed by Raunerism and right wing policies. We don’t have to do those things. Minnesota and California—and other graduated income tax stares—have had population gains. We will not strip union rights to permanently empower super-wealthy business interests and let them play us against other states in a race to the bottom. We will not open up the state constitution to remove the pension protection clause.
We will apparently try to raise taxes on the rich and cut them for many others, including giving property tax relief. We will probably strengthen union protections. We should be bold in these things.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:13 pm
Grandson, and Illinois will continue to lose taxpayers.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:14 pm
At least he didn’t say, “People leaving shouldn’t let the door hit them in the backside”.
For me, it’s the total tax bite, with real estate taxes being the last straw. $5700 per year for a house I’ll be lucky to sell for $150K annoys me down to the ground. But when I go, it surely won’t be to IA, WI, or IN - if I have to go through the trouble and expense of moving, I’m going to put these sub-zero temperatures in the rear-view mirror as well. But the decision is not “because” of the weather, I’ve already got over sixty Chicago winters under my belt, and another twenty wouldn’t be the end of me.
Comment by Stuntman Bob's Brother Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:30 pm
“In the three weeks since sending the first postcard, Pender said, she hasn’t received any calls from Cook County residents asking to look at her Indiana listings.”
People don’t generally get something for nothing. Go to live in Indiana for lower taxes and make much lower Indiana wages (see median incomes).
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:30 pm
Grandson, The one benefit of living in Northwest Indiana is it is a short distance to visit Chicago and utilize our tax-payer subsidized cultural amenities (museums, zoos, concerts, plays, etc.)
Comment by City Guy Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 3:45 pm
==This guy is being told exactly what to do and some times what to say.==
Passive voice. Is being told by whom? Let me guess, the Illuminati?
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:11 pm
The one thing we have not yet tried is to tax sufficiently to pay our bills and properly service our debt. These things would let people know that adults are running the show. A long enough period of predictability would go a long way toward providing confidence in our future.
Comment by Jobba Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:14 pm
There appears to be one person in denial, who believes that by raising income taxes on a few, many others will have their income and property taxes reduced. Ignoring the bill backlog, budget shortfall and unfunded spending plans of our new Governor is no way to go through life (grand) son.
Have you started smoking marijuana before JB had a chance to legalize it?
Comment by SSL Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:24 pm
Grandson, California has been losing residents for decades now:
https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265
Comment by Peace Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:26 pm
TAXES and weather. 36 months and I’m gone.
Comment by South Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:31 pm
“Ignoring the bill backlog, budget shortfall and unfunded spending plans of our new Governor is no way to go through life (grand) son.”
It’s completely the opposite. We need the rich to pay more in state taxes to be more fiscally responsible. Your guy Bruce purposely caused more per capita fiscal damage than any one politician in state history.
We’re not doing right wing policies to deal with outmigration and other problems. We don’t have to. Other states who are not doing these policies are gaining people.
We’re not using the governor’s office to try to push people out of unions. We’re not doing local RTWFL, to hurt workers living paycheck to paycheck in order to benefit super-rich business interests. We’re not doing the Republican cut, cut, cut obsession.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:42 pm
One idea to retain citizenry - a retractable roof over Illinois. It would help keep people from leaving and would help the weather. We can either solve the pension crisis or build this roof.
Comment by Elon Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:51 pm
“Grandson, California has been losing residents for decades now”
According to the US Census Bureau, California has been gaining population.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/ca
According to an article posted here the other day, all states but Illinois and West Virginia gained people in the last decade.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:52 pm
Lighten up Francis. You and your unnamed army can stand down.
Comment by SSL Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 4:58 pm
==Have you started smoking marijuana before JB had a chance to legalize it?==
No, but we’ve already spent the marijuana tax revenue. Many times over.
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:01 pm
“Apparently pointing out Illinois problems and making suggesting for reversing the situation is “bad mouthing”.”
1.4% did not point out the problems and suggest solutions. He spent more than 4 years vilifying Madigan and running around the State claiming it was “broken”. His so called solutions did more harm than good to the State. Four years of turmoil did more to drive jobs and residents out of the State than anything else.
Why should the good people of the State stay when the governor is doing everything in his power to push people out? People took his suggestion and moved to more friendlier environments.
JB isn’t going to be able to mend the damage of the last administration in 2 months. Probably not in 4 years. But he needs to attract people into the State.
Comment by Huh? Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:03 pm
Even good rats will leave a sinking ship.
Comment by Enemy of the State Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:06 pm
A factor not fully discussed is Illinois is one of 10 “donor” states. We pay more to the federal government than we get back. Its going to get worse due to the SALT cap. The feds are taking our money and supporting the economies of other locations that draw our residents.
I know the issue is not easy to address, but it would be nice if the Illinois delegation and the Governor could develop a plan and try to create a bit more equity.
Comment by City Guy Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:07 pm
Talk is cheap. Pritzker’s taxes are expensive. The population loss will continue and likely get worse.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:08 pm
===20 years ago, the state’s contribution to SURS was $225 million. Last year, it was $1.6 billion.===
And 80% of that contribution goes to pay debt. When the spineless politicians took it, it didn’t go to higher ed, your bogus argument about salary increases not withstanding. Unless, that is, you can point to dollars themselves, CZ. You’ve never provided any figures that any salary increases were out of line. Just your unsubstantiated, financially absent allegation that some of that debt rung up by the pols went to pay salaries somehow implying the raises wouldn’t have happened otherwise. The unions sued to force the state to make what was owed annually, but the ILSC ruled against them. Why would they sue, if they were somehow in cahoots with the pols while they took the money?
Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:12 pm
== My wife and I are looking to relocate to Austin, TX… ==
Might want to spend an entire summer there first. Speaking from personal experience, it gets HOT
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:27 pm
Anonymous 5:08…I think your message got cut off where you were going to suggest solutions. /s
Comment by Jibba Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:29 pm
== highly skilled knowledge economy ==
That kind of work can, mostly, be done from anywhere with a high speed Internet connection. Don’t count on it to save Illinois.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 5:31 pm
==Did you know 33 states have a progressive tax?==
Did you know 49 states have lower property taxes than Illinois?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:29 pm
Let’s join the 33, and that will take care of property taxes. Are you with me, bud?
Comment by PublicServant Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 6:51 pm
If your a state retired employee you healt ins is good anywhere just look for states that don’t tax it and get the hell out because instead of passing intelligent legislation they only want to pass restrictive legislation on law abiding citizens.
Comment by Roger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:49 pm
Seems if you post the truth and usethe word hell it won’t get through.
Comment by Roger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 9:51 pm
Roger, your original post might not have gone through immediately as it is incoherent.
Make an effort before pressing “say it,” dude.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:09 pm
Interesting, related story on the steep decline of black citizens enrolling in Illinois universities and community colleges.
Community colleges need to be emphasized in any discussion on rebuilding higher education in Illinois.
They were zeroed out under the Rauner, the job creator, economic development guy.
Community colleges should be at the forefront of partnerships with business for locally tailored, lifelong, vocational training.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:15 pm
Pardon, here is the link I referred to, from Capitol News Illinois.
https://www.sj-r.com/news/20190305/black-college-enrollment-down-sharply-in-illinois
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Mar 5, 19 @ 10:19 pm
Black people are down significantly in Illinois.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 12:57 am
We need legislators of both parties and people to step up and craft a graduated income tax plan that gives property tax relief. It’s what Pritzker said he wants. Property tax relief was something the former governor demanded (but wouldn’t accept compromise proposals). He wanted it through the hides of trade workers and government employees with his “local control” anti-union policies. It’s very unfortunate that Republicans are forbidden by their base and billionaire funders to join the current tax reform effort. They are needed.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 7:20 am
Funding education? Really? How much more funding does education need? JB’s sop to the teacher’s union.
His fix will be more state tax money for education, local and state, and property taxes will still remain high. Our esteemed “educators” demand it.
Comment by Jake Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 8:08 am
Pritzker isn’t right. First of all, no businesses have come to Illinois in decades for the “great people”, which is a ridiculous description of the fools that call Illinois our home. We’ve allowed politicians to ruin the state and then we re-elect them, protect them in the courts, and hike taxes on the rest of the fools. Most of us are just waiting to hit the road and spending more on higher education for kids that can’t cut it in high school is insane. Businesses invest where taxes are low and regulation is not overbearing. Check Illinois off the list.
Comment by Law Man Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 8:17 am
No mention of being the highest overall taxed state in the USA? How out of touch can this guy be? He is definitely in the right political party.
This is how IL Democrats think.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 11:51 am
===No mention of being the highest overall taxed state in the USA?===
Cite, please.
Thanks.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 11:52 am
People leave because they are risk adverse. I would like to be able to sell my house before I have to take less than I paid for it. I think that in 4 years real estate will will prices will be dropping, if not bottomed out. I am just not willing to suffer that consequence.
Comment by Andrew Jordan Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 12:25 pm
Most retirees move to be closer to their family. Some move because they hate the weather in IL. Others move for a better job.
Comment by M Wednesday, Mar 6, 19 @ 7:30 pm