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* The Trace…
Spurred by revelations that the gunman who killed five people at an Aurora manufacturing plant in February bought his weapon despite a prior felony conviction, Illinois Democrats are moving to extend the use of fingerprint background checks for prospective gun owners.
That would close what state lawmakers and former federal law enforcement officials say is a loophole that could be allowing criminals to purchase firearms.
Three bills filed in the Illinois General Assembly would require authorities to collect fingerprints from people applying for state gun licenses or, alternatively, allow people seeking a state Firearms Owner’s Identification card to provide their fingerprints to the Illinois State Police as part of their background checks. […]
[Sen. Julie Morrison, D-Deerfield] said she is considering revisions to bring her legislation in line with a bill filed Monday by state Rep. Kathleen Willis, D-Northlake, that would make fingerprinting mandatory.
Both of their proposals would require private gun transactions to be conducted through a licensed dealer and do more to try to ensure that people whose FOID cards are revoked surrender their weapons.
* Other bills…
* Candidate who died before election highlights limit of state election rules
* Illinois House OKs sex education lessons on consent in schools
* Illinois lawmakers look to start college savings accounts
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 1:12 pm
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“The state of Illinois may soon provide the seed money for kids in the state to go to college.
The Illinois House last week approved a plan to create a college savings fund for every child born or adopted in Illinois starting in 2021.”
Seed money is one thing, but college savings plans already exist in Illinois.
Comment by downstateR Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 1:21 pm
My bad:
https://illinoistreasurer.gov/Individuals/College_Savings/Bright_Start_College_Savings_Plan_Enhancements
Comment by downstateR Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 1:21 pm
There’s no point in banning felons from buying firearms, which is a policy hopefully everyone can agree on, if we don’t have the measures in place to actually enforce it. This is a step in the right direction.
Comment by PJ Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 1:29 pm
They buried the lead “Both of their proposals would require private gun transactions to be conducted through a licensed dealer” First the Dem’s forced all FFL’s to get a needless state license along with security equipment- thus running many out of business. Now they want all private sales to have to take place at a FFL. Transparent attempt to infringe on legal and lawful citizens 2A rights.
Comment by Donnie Elgin Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 1:37 pm
In a private firearms transaction, exactly how is the fingerprint card obtained and submitted to ISP?
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 2:03 pm
A valid foid card is already required for private transactions (with the state police providing a website to confirm the buyers card has not been revoked). So background checks are already being performed on all legal private sales in Illinois. Requiring sellers to go through an FFL is just redundant and punitive to gun owners.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 2:17 pm
–Illinois Democrats are moving to extend the use of fingerprint background checks for prospective gun owners.–
Something I assumed was part of the dealio to begin with.
I also assume I’m going to hear how this is just a first step in the government confiscating the 300 million-plus firearms in private hands.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 2:24 pm
===In a private firearms transaction, exactly how is the fingerprint card obtained and submitted to ISP?===
Electronically, using Livescan electronic fingerprint venders.
Comment by Nick Name Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 2:38 pm
So thinking about it, it seems to me adding the prints to the foid process isn’t exactly taxing. I do question how well the ISP electronic system will handle it. Theoretically you’d only need to collect them once so minimal pain.
Once you have those prints no point to adding the private transfers through ffl since you have to call ISP anyway they’ll have already run the check.
Speaking of ISP & checks will running prints increase the cost for the regular checks ISP does?
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 2:51 pm
Seems unlikely to get very far in our legal system as currently constituted, but whatevs. Maybe this is part of the “every dollar the NRA spends on lawsuits against Illinois is a dollar they can’t spend re-electing trump” strategy?
Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 2:54 pm
Mason –
Cost of an FBI fingerprint check is $32.50 if memory serves me correct. Then there is the $60-75 live scan fee. So now you’re talking about adding another $100 on to a right. along with all the other hoops and such. If we can’t require an ID to vote, becuase that will disenfranchise the poor, then how does this fly?
the bill also allows for unlimited fees as they can add the cost of the checks, which if state police wanted to, could pad the hour or so of time they need to look at things. So when is enough enough? and if you want to know why gun owners are digging in their heels more and more and saying no, this is it.
Comment by Todd Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 3:13 pm
Todd
You may be surprised how much we agree. Cull the passing on the fees & require a 1 time submittal & we’re not talking about that much of a stretch.
I give my prints one time pay slightly more, say $40, then go back to same process we have now for $10. Is that really too much of an infringement? Go further & allow ISP to take the prints in their district HQ for free.
The state should eat the cost of any additional background checks. If they want to run monthly checks then the state should cover it.
Aurora showed there’s a problem with just going off name & birthday how do we fix it? We have the FOID card and it isn’t going away, we might as well be sure it actualky serves a purpose.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 3:49 pm
== The state should eat the cost of any additional background checks. If they want to run monthly checks then the state should cover it. ==
In theory, and probably somewhat in practice, the ISP is running the entire FOID list every night.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:00 pm
RNUG
Thanks that’s what I was wondering about if they are going to run print checks nightly. Any extra cost should be on the state. Granted they could run the current checks nightly & print checks monthly to minimize the extra cost.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:13 pm
Mason — yes. I think the whole FOID is an infringement.
We are one of four states that has anything like a FOID. And now, its not enough. When 43 other states are pretty much cash and carry with just a drivers license 7 states have waiting periods on long guns, not sure about handguns.
So yea, I don’t care if its once or once every 100 years. If we can’t have ids to vote, then I see no differance, be it $10 or $100.
We pass red flag law, not enough, extend waiting periods, not enough, FOID card and new mental health standards not enough So now tax gun owners for the right and make them have to goto the State Police in person and no private sales and . . . . .
We have a FOID case pending at the State Supreme Court. We have the New York case pending at SCOTUS with two more teed up. Feeling we just keep going to court and taking back ground and not give an inch
Comment by Todd Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:14 pm
Nick Name -
If the private transaction is a transfer, according to the ISP website, there is NO fingerprint check.
https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/PersonToPersonFirearmTransfer.aspx
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:15 pm
Well Todd why don’t we just get rid of all regulations. Let’s just make it a free for all. Guns for anyone who wants them.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:44 pm
I am a gun owner and agree with Mason Bornwith the exception that I would prefer to get fingerprinted and pay a one-time fee for a permanent FOID card, that would not expire (but could be revoked). Fingerprints are required for more and more jobs (teachers, etc.). Ultimately, I would like to see one state-issued ID card that would have me designated driving classification, gun-toting classification, etc. No more momentary fear that you may have left the FOID card out of the wallet when you are in the duck blind.
Comment by Grandpa2 Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:45 pm
Nobody should be opposed to fingerprint checks. Why it’s not done now is beyond me
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 4:47 pm
These proposals infringe on the rights of the poor/fixed income in that they are least able to afford these additional fees required to own a firearm. I also suspect they are less able to get to an ISP office.
Comment by concerned Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 5:24 pm
Demoralized –
You just can’t help but jump the shark can you. Where did I saw free for all and no regs? I didn’t. I pointed out that 46 states get along just fine without FOID cards. only 43 having wainting periods on long guns and most are cash and carry fter filling out the 4473 and passing a background check.
No we are not going to support finger prints. and if they were to pass, we’ll challenge it in court, since we have a case pending. Maybe you should go review the recent decision in Webb 7-0 about an individual right.
Keep reachogn for more and you just might end up with a whole lot less
Comment by Todd Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 5:28 pm
== Nobody should be opposed to fingerprint checks. ==
I might object to them, but I wanted s job also. When I took my first State job, because of the sensitivity of data I was going to have access to, I had to give my fingerprints and undergo background checks by both the IBI (I’m dating myself) and the FBI. If the State wants to dig back about 50 years, they already have them. Don’t see why they need them again.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 5:31 pm
– Nobody should be opposed to fingerprint checks –
Nobody? For voting? Driving? Or just those mean ole gun owners that won’t roll over for the Chicago pols ?
Comment by Circling The Drain Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 6:11 pm
I support a national ID with fingerprints. The Feds have had my prints since 1968, Saudi government since 1988, City of Chicago since 2008, and State of Illinois since 2009. Giving them again is no big deal.
If we added fingerprints to each drivers license or State ID, that would be fine with me. Everybody in, nobody out.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 6:17 pm
– Nobody should be opposed to fingerprint checks –
Nobody? For voting? Driving? Or just those mean ole gun owners that won’t roll over for the Chicago pols ?–
How do you maintain your hair-trigger paranoia when there are more privately owned firearms in this country than there are cars?
Do you think someone is coming to take all the cars, too? Do you think that’s even remotely possible?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 6:24 pm
- Anyone Remember
“If the private transaction is a transfer, according to the ISP website, there is NO fingerprint check”
That is the current law - the Willis bill will change that to require the fingerprint check and that a transfer take place at a FFL. Big difference
Comment by Donnie Elgin Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 6:28 pm
Can someone tell me which one of the constitutional rights listed in the Bill of Rights requires fingerprints or even a photo ID? I’m curious.
Comment by Not Thanos Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 7:00 pm
==least able to afford these additional fees required to own a firearm.==
A handgun costs around $300 and a rifle/shotgun runs around $500. You’re telling me a $28.25 (state & FBI) fingerprint fee is prohibitive?
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 8:05 pm
–Can someone tell me which one of the constitutional rights listed in the Bill of Rights requires fingerprints or even a photo ID? I’m curious.–
The same one that says you have an unlimited right to purchase a gun anywhere, anytime, from anyone.
How old are you, dude? Do you yank your crank like that all the the time? Grow up.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 9, 19 @ 9:49 pm
Jocko
If ISP has prints for a FOID why would they need them again at point of sale? & yes adding 10% on to the cost of the sale is significant.
Do it on the FOID & let ISP run their checks when they wish, on their dime.
Comment by Mason born Wednesday, Apr 10, 19 @ 5:17 am
Illinois’ gun violence rate is higher than several of our neighbors states. The FOID concept does not work.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Apr 10, 19 @ 6:50 am
-grow up-
Zing
I suppose I deserved that. I purposefully asked on overly provocative question to see what sort of reaction it would get. It was met with a school yard insult. Grow up indeed.
Comment by Not Thanos Wednesday, Apr 10, 19 @ 8:09 am
I did background checks for a State agency until I retired last year. If fingerprinting will be required for a FOID the only way to get the most accurate results is to run them through the FBI. We ran our prints through ISP and the FBI. The ISP is the only authorized channeler to send prints to the FBI. The FBI checks all 50 states, whereas if you just run them through ISP you only get an Illinois criminal history report. We had our own live scan machine and did all print collection in house. Also the FBI has a neat program called rap back. Rap back sends a message to the original requester, if a person previously printed is convicted of a new crime since they were originally printed. Even with all that we were required by a federal agency we worked with to reprint our employees every ten years. All the prints we submitted were also accompanied with a photograph, FBI requirement.
Comment by Paceman Wednesday, Apr 10, 19 @ 8:12 am
Blue. You may be right about that. I’ll go out on another limb here and guess that those involved in gang related shootings most likely don’t have a FOID.
Comment by Not Thanos Wednesday, Apr 10, 19 @ 8:37 am