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* Effingham County is at it again…
The Effingham County Board Monday voted to pursue a referendum to separate the rest of Illinois from Cook County.
The draft resolution has been modified from the measure approved out of committee earlier this month. This is the wording of what was approved by the Board on Monday: “Shall Effingham County collaborate in discussions with the remaining 101 counties of the State of Illinois, with the exception of Cook County, the possibility of forming a new state and ultimately seeking admission to the Federal Union as the 51st state, pursuant to the provisions of the United States Constitution?”
* From the local paper…
The separation referendum was brought to the table by board member Heather Mumma. Mumma said that the referendum moved to the full board with an addition stating the board will collaborate through discussions about just the possibility of separating from Chicago.
“I’m hearing from my constituents every day through many varieties of communication that this is one thing they’d like to see on the ballot as a referendum. They all seem to have a different reasoning. The main thing I am hearing is we have spoken to Springfield through the Second Amendment resolution and also the resolution for the unborn, and they just don’t seem to be listening,” Mumma said.
“They just don’t seem to be listening”…
Effingham County population: 34,242
Illinois population: 12,734,617
Counties don’t vote.
* More…
Matt Pals attended the meeting in support of the referendum and the board’s decision to discuss separation with Chicago.
“I think it has to start somewhere,” Pals said of the proposed separation. “I think once you get two more counties, four more counties, 10 more counties, then they’ll have to listen because right now…it’s not always about taxes and having some extra money. It is something about morals and raising your communities so people stay here.” […]
Menard County resident and separation movement leader Collin Cliburn was also in support of the county’s role in the separation, saying if the state was separated, the downstate portion would have a fair shake at voting in who it wanted and passing bills that would aid it.
* Mr. Cliburn’s attire at the meeting says it all about these folks…
The money argument doesn’t work with them.
* Meanwhile…
The Board also voted to approve a resolution declaring the state’s Firearms Owner Identification Card unconstitutional.
* Related…
* Sales tax for schools rejected in Effingham County: A 2014 study on the 1 percent sales tax found that, in Effingham County, 54 percent of of the sales tax would be paid for by non-residents passing through, visiting and shopping in the county.
* Effingham County Board resolves to oppose reproductive bill: There is currently no site in Effingham County that performs abortions.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:34 am
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If downstate is a “taker” and Chicago is a “giver,” Chicago should wholeheartedly support secession. The fact that it does not is proof that this model is inadequate.
Comment by Chris Widger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:39 am
I live in Effingham County. We are, apparently, nuts here.
Comment by up2now Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:40 am
I was going to make a comment about a wall, but seriously, not everyone in Effingham Co is insane, right?
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:40 am
As a kid I went squirrel hunting down by Effingham. Obviously missed some.
Comment by Last Bull Moose Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:41 am
Let them go. Let them drive down dirt roads to their crumbling schools while carrying their guns to keep big gvt from invading their dying communities.
Comment by Give Me A Break Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:41 am
===The fact that it does not is proof that this model is inadequate===
That mental reasoning is so unsound that you may need a checkup.
Maybe, just maybe people in other parts of the state are focusing on more important issues than this goofy idea.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:43 am
Let em go. Landlocked losers.
Comment by Precinct Captain Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:43 am
The politics of division comes home to roost. This is the result of a premeditated, decades long and ongoing campaign to divide Americans.
It makes me sad for the future.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:44 am
==If downstate is a “taker” and Chicago is a “giver,” Chicago should wholeheartedly support secession.==
Not sure I follow your argument there, pal. Is keeping money the only basis for a relationship? I feel sorry for your family/spouse.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:46 am
I would like to annex Effingham’s Cruisers and their pork tenderloin sandwich.
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:51 am
I wonder how many people on the Effingham County Board illegally own guns without having a FOID card.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:52 am
My only concern is that this weird idea gains traction — it becomes a proxy for something more visceral, more racist, more homophobic, more misogynistic. I fear that we would want to name ourselves “Gilead” at the end of this. Not snark — but a real concern about how this “us vs. them” is framed. Effingham County seems to forget that downstate does have liberals, too.
Now all that said, if this happens, I hope they realize that it opens the doors for something else. Why could Missouri and Iowa simply not make overtures to their border counties. If the state is going to separate, why not allow true self-determination?
Comment by IllinoisCitizen Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:52 am
“The fact that it does not is proof that this model is inadequate.”
Good Lord you are making so many assumptions there. 1) You are assuming anyone is Chicago thinks about you, or anyone else down state. They probably don’t. They have more important things going on in their lives than finding scapegoats for their problems. Heck, most people downstate do too. 2) You are assuming Chicagoans DON’T want downstate to go away. From what I’ve heard most would actually like to disown us. 3) You are assuming everyone thinks this is legal and politically possible. Both are iffy. You’d have to get Congress to go along with it at the very least. 4) You are assuming that Chicago would think it’s worth their time, even if they did want to separate. Like #1, they have better things to do with their time.
Grow up, dude, and start using the grey matter between your ears. It’s what it’s there for.
Comment by Perrid Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:53 am
The political charlatans have set their hooks and they’re going to reel in as many as they can.
Identifying the outsider-villain causing your problems beats working at solving them.
For those really into that county thing, the link below explains and illustrates how rural counties are continuing their population stagnation and decline as metro counties continue to grow.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:58 am
While we’re at it, Cook County should then separate into 20 smaller states, and thus give the Dems 40 more senators.
Comment by Person 8 Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:00 am
He is obviously too young to remember when central Illinois had a lot more dirt roads. Dirt roads really suck during the spring thaw.
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:01 am
I’m from Cook County and I want to sign on as a co-sponsor of this. 100% on board.
Comment by The Captain Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:03 am
–It is something about morals and raising your communities so people stay here.” […]–
Curiously, in densely populated Cook County, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a house of worship, all persuasions represented.
Look out a high-rise window in the Loop and you’ll see a forest of steeples, north, south and west.
Go out for breakfast on a Sunday morning, and you’re going to have a long wait alongside the after-church crowd.
Are you sure “morals” are what’s bothering you?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:06 am
==I’m from Cook County and I want to sign on as a co-sponsor of this. 100% on board.==
Can we secede from Cook County first?
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:06 am
The good people of Effingham seem a little Effing-confused about the economics of all of this.
Comment by A guy Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:08 am
===Are you sure “morals” are what’s bothering you?===
“Economic anxiety”
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:09 am
= Counties don’t vote. =
Based on a tweet that was on the sidebar yesterday, you might want to remind Rep. Skillcorn of that fact as well.
Comment by cover Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:09 am
Mr Cliburn should just turn off the radio, tv, set down his newspaper, smart phone etc if he doesn’t want to hear Chicago politicians. That is what I do. And I drive on plenty of dirt/gravel roads too. Get a job. Get a life. It’s rednecks like him that give rednecks like me a bad name.
Comment by Ducky LaMoore Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:12 am
Imagine if they spent as much time trying to improve the residents’ lives as they do trying to put more geopolitical distance between themselves and black people.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:17 am
Too bad if they don’t like the Illinois government, Chicago and Democrats. Don’t they tell others to get over it and pull themselves up by their bootstraps? We have to live under Trump, McConnell and a right wing SCOTUS. Many who hate the current national situation are not trying to break apart the country but are waiting for the next election, which is always around the corner.
It’s not about economic anxiety. It’s about a childish, petulant hatred. Lots of people feel economic anxiety and even have to deal with racism on top of that. They’re not trying to break apart the state.
They can also leave Illinois. They have Indiana right next door.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:20 am
Eh, sooner or later E county voters will realize the board cant deliver on any of these issues and that there are other things they should be working on. Might take 70 years, but they’ll get there eventually
Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:22 am
==I think once you get two more counties, four more counties, 10 more counties==
Yeah…go with that. You can have the remaining 100 counties on board (minus Cook, of course) and you’ll still be Illinois. It would make more sense to get all 34,000 residents to move to Montana and start a commune.
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:24 am
==Shall Effingham County collaborate in discussions with the remaining 101 counties of the State of Illinois, with the exception of Cook County,==
Cook County doesn’t get to be in on the discussion? That’s a bit rude don’t ya think?
Fifteen other counties voted for Pritzker. The populous ones. Who wants Lake County, (237,890 votes cast) when there is Ford County (4466 votes cast)?
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:25 am
==It’s rednecks like him that give rednecks like me a bad name.==
Seconded. Also, I’m stealing this line
Comment by Lester Holt’s Mustache Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:25 am
As a former Chicagoan I can understand some of their frustrations.
Comment by Wylie Coyote Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:28 am
=While we’re at it, Cook County should then separate into 20 smaller states…=
Each Chicago precinct should have its own senator.
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:34 am
So if you live in Effingham County and want to go to the big city, you go to Terre Haute? Can you find 5 people in Lake, Cook, Dupage or Kane County that have had a thought about Effingham County in the past year? This is like the fleas arguing over which one of them controls the dog.
Comment by Trapped in the 'burbs Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:45 am
I am confused. Effingham nobility Jim Schultz was head of DCEO and then Intersect for the past 4 years. And during that time we had a Governor who must have been from downstate considering all the huntin, railin’ against them corrupt yankees in Sheecahgo and Carhartt wearin’ he did.
That leadership didn’t improve anything for downstate?
Comment by Henry Francis Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:48 am
–“Economic anxiety”–
Yeah, that’s what some are calling it these days.
Pardon, I meant to leave a link previously on the population and demographic changes in American rural and metro counties.
https://eig.org/heartland-visa
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:53 am
If the Federal Government rejects IL-Ex-Go as a state would that mean we would need passports to leave the former state of Illinois?
Comment by A Jack Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:54 am
Some of these downstate counties have based their economies on over-policed Cook County sending them incarcerated poor folks — to boost their census data and keep their local prison business running. If Chicago was its own state, I think that pipeline would dry up for them.
Comment by Anon Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:55 am
I live next door to Effingham County and our County Board will probably see this and do this next. Unfortunately our State Representative, Wilhour, feeds into this type of rhetoric. He even put out a statement supporting this vote. He is a co sponsor of a bill to make a 51st state out of Illinois (minus Cook County of course). I hope that people will actually look at the tax facts and financial aspect of this proposal but think that logical reasoning on this issue has long since left the discussion. Local politicians continue to feed the fire looking to score quick political points. There are too many issues that need dealt with in this State and the formation of a 51st state isnt one of them.
Comment by Fayette County Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:57 am
That leadership didn’t improve anything for downstate?
It wasn’t leadership
It was perfidy
and only the wealthy of Effingham
got anything out of it.
Comment by Honeybear Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:04 am
I’m troubled by how these people refuse to accept, acknowledge, or see any strength in differences. Tribalism is dangerous.
Comment by Duke of Normandy Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:04 am
“If downstate is a “taker” and Chicago is a “giver,” Chicago should wholeheartedly support secession. The fact that it does not is proof that this model is inadequate.”
This assumes everyone in Chicago adheres to the core conservative principle of “I got mine, everyone else can shove it.”
Some of us actually believe that resources should flow from where they are to where they are needed. Crazy idea, I know.
Comment by Actual Red Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:07 am
I think the secessionists have this backwards. This seems backwards to me.They want Chicago(I80 line) to leave. Well, you cant kick out a region and make them a new state, the area that wants to leave should become the new state. I think we should get back to naming the new state. I80 region should get to keep the Illinois name.
Comment by Anothertiree Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:11 am
This movement will continue to grow, just as the county by county Conceal and Carry resolutions grew several years ago. Laugh, mock, and chuckle all you want. This isn’t going away, especially as JB and company drive Illinois wildly to the left of center.
Comment by Unpopular Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:18 am
–I think we should get back to naming the new state. I80 region should get to keep the Illinois name.–
And assets. The new state would have no claim on Illinois state assets within its borders. This is America, after all, and titled property rights are sacrosanct.
If they want them, they’ll have to buy them.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:23 am
To Unpopular: “This isn’t going away”. What exactly is “this” you speak of.
If Effingham spent 10% of it’s time teaching themselves basic civics and governing under the Illinois Constitution it might be more affective at solving it’s many grievances. But like our current President it’s easier and lazier to stay ignorant.
Comment by don the legend Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:30 am
Effective nor affective. Sorry.
Comment by don the legend Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:31 am
= –“Economic anxiety”–
Yeah, that’s what some are calling it these days.
Pardon, I meant to leave a link previously on the population and demographic changes in American rural and metro counties.
https://eig.org/heartland-visa =
Interesting article, Wordslinger. That concept makes sense from an economic perspective. But would people like the guy in that T-shirt welcome immigrants to their insular communities?
Comment by cover Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:31 am
==And assets. The new state would have no claim on Illinois state assets within its borders.==
How about liabilities?
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:32 am
The moral certainty of the left is based exactly on which success? The system taxes everyone for the “new” programs and leaves us red neck-downstaters looking at a future as grim as the worst that Chicago can be. What exactly is economically or ecologically sustainable about a citified world?
Comment by Matthew Vernau Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:35 am
===What exactly is economically or ecologically sustainable about a citified world?===
I dunno. Maybe ask the young people who have fled the lack of opportunity and diversity of thought in rural communities for a hundred-some years?
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:36 am
The big thing that bothers me about all this is that politics has nothing to do with where state lines ought to be. Any shortcomings in the placement of state lines are reflected by the private sector. For example, people crossing state lines commuting, going to ball games, or business expanding across state lines before going to other parts of their states. If there’s a shortcoming in the placement of state lines, it’s reflected in the Cardinals treating parts off Illinois as part of their local market, but not all of Missouri. Election results tell you nothing about where state lines ought to be & the things these people keep bringing up are off topic to any discussion where state lines should be.
Comment by 62656 Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:37 am
Secessionist Cliborn doesn’t like being outvoted. So he essentially wants to gerrymander out the Chicago area to create a different state where his side can win.
Comment by anon2 Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:47 am
Living in EFFINGHAM county I am proud of this move. If anyone would look at the voting poles you would see that the majority south of i80 vote red. But do to Chicago’s population they take over any vote that happens. This move is not financial it is so we have a voice! What we are trying to do is separate so we vote what we want. People in cook county have no clue what goes on down here not like so many have said care! We as a nation have an electoral college so the most populated areas such as Chicago, la, And New York don’t speak for the nation. But yet we allow those cities to speak for their hole state? In Illinois cook county takes up less then 3% of the land and yet their policies control 100% of the state.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:54 am
Downstaters used to get so offended when Chicago columnist Mike Royko referred to them as ‘rubes’.
You never hear anyone from Chicago referring to them as rubes anymore. Downstaters are effectively their own circular firing squad.
Mr. Speaker, please let the resolution out of Rules because the people of Illinois could use a little levity.
Comment by Medvale School for the Gifted Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:55 am
==CityZen and liabilities== That’s been my thought all along. Hidden within this, is the thought that they will escape their part of my pension debt either by leaving it behind in some magic way, or repudiating it with their new constitution.
Comment by Anotheretiree Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:58 am
==And assets. The new state would have no claim on Illinois state assets within its borders.==
How about liabilities?–
Same.
And that pension shift would go like stuff through a goose before any new state was formed.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 11:59 am
===In Illinois cook county takes up less then 3% of the land===
LOL
What kind of a nut are you?
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:00 pm
= What kind of a nut are you? =
Might want to ask him if he’s the guy wearing the T-shirt…
Comment by cover Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:04 pm
Suspending reality for a minute, what if these rural counties were able to create their own new state?
their new state would be akin to some of our other sparsely populated states and with few resources or economic engines.
They would be a low or no tax and no regulation nirvana with jobs galore?
Very unlikely, other similar states that would be similar have not achieved that status. Kansa and Mississippi continue to struggle economically.
And, rural Illinois continues to see rapid outmigration to urban and suburban areas. When you do not have stuff kids won’t stay.
The suburbs won’t leave with them by the way.
So they won’t have services or much of anything but they won’t have taxes and can have all the guns they want.
I say let them go.
Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:18 pm
Might want to work on your spelling and grammar Bobby from Effingham.
Comment by LucasBeans Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:39 pm
Dirt roads ain’t gonna get Monsanto’s beans to market.
Otherwise, ATV nirvana.
Comment by vole Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:40 pm
While on one level this kind of thinking to me is so delusional, it’s almost funny. But on a deeper level, it’s heartbreaking. We’re the Land of Lincoln. As a state, we need to find ways to come together and honor that legacy.
Comment by Interested Observer Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:41 pm
I apologize I did not put my name on last post. Also I am no grammar scholar nor have I ever claimed to be. To point out my horrible spelling or grammar instead of trying to have a discussion about what the article is about is petty and it is unproductive.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:48 pm
===To point out my horrible spelling or grammar instead of trying to have a discussion===
It’s difficult to have a written discussion with someone who can’t write. Try harder. This isn’t Facebook.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:49 pm
Robert do Vs due…
Comment by Bigfoot Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:55 pm
“This is like the fleas arguing over which one of them controls the dog.”
Man, I just don’t get how citizens outside of Cook could feel disenfranchised.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:56 pm
Downstate folks might want to ask just what their own downstate reps have done for them. In protecting their values and interests from the big corporate powers that have contributed to population declines and economic concentration and consolidation that have depressed wages over the years. Government spending is about all that is holding up many downstate communities. The 51st state would be readily set to proceed to basket case status based on poorly regulated extractive industry. Blue is slowing the red race to the bottom. Go 51 if you really want to see the great migration from Illinois.
Comment by vole Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 12:56 pm
–Cook county is 1,635 square miles. Out of that only 945 square miles is land. 690 square miles is water.–
I hereby declare myself King Wordslinger of New Atlantis, Lord Protector of the Chinook, Emperor of Alewives.
My first royal decree is to nationalize Rocky’s yacht, “The Blackhawk,” as my floating palace and all other vessels in Chicago harbors as my Navy.
If you all want fresh water, you’ll have to pay. I’ll be setting up off-shore banking at the water cribs for payments (good for money-laundering, too).
Just as realistic as the Eastern Blocheads idea.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:01 pm
And again why is it so hard? Are you unable to read it? Do you not understand the math I laid out? You called me a bit because I said cook county is less then 3% of Illinois. How does that make me a nut? Is my math wrong? As for not being Facebook you are correct but what does that have to do with changing my mind on the matter? I am open to a conversation and willing to listen to facts and or your opinion. So please tell me what is wrong with southern counties wanting to have a voice in our elections and policies? Cook county holds roughly 30% of Illinois population. And as stated before that 5 million live in an area of only 3% of our state. By separating we would have a voice in who and what we elect. That is what we are after.
Comment by Robert Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:02 pm
“do[sic] to Chicago’s population they take over any vote that happens.”
Representative democracy can be a real bummer, huh?
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:09 pm
–Man, I just don’t get how citizens outside of Cook could feel disenfranchised.–
I know. Because by any definition or objective standard, they are not.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:12 pm
From Effingham:
Terre Haute 65 mi
St. Louis 90 mi
Kentucky 100 mi
Nobody is forced to stay, nor is there arguably any harm as they have chosen to exercise discretion regarding undesirable statute enforcement within the county.
Comment by Midstate Indy Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:17 pm
Dear Robert…I am a fellow downstater who doesn’t think like you. My vote is often overlooked or gerrymandered out of existence in favor of the sea of red surrounding me, so I get how you feel. However, that is representative democracy. Land area doesn’t vote, people do, and there are more people voting blue than red at the state level in Illinois. Deal with it, as I deal with it at the local and county level. Gerrymandering your state so that you always win is a child’s answer.
Comment by Simple Simon Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:24 pm
Robert: I’m a Democrat living in Sangamon County, meaning I don’t have much of a voice in county politics or government.
The GOP has dominated Sangamon County for 30 years. But I’m not asking to have my county board district vote to kick the rest of the county board districts in Sangamon County out of the county.
This is what is called majority rule, Man up and deal with it.
Comment by Give Me A Break Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:27 pm
==And as stated before that 5 million live in an area of only 3% of our state.==
Your goal is soybeans getting the vote? Or corn? Sorry I thought democracy was for humans, including the ones living where one person’s ceiling is the other one’s floor.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:32 pm
Some Democrats/liberals want to get of the Electoral College. Ain’t going to happen any time soon. It’s best that they get over it and figure out how to win where they need to. Demographics are changing.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:38 pm
===You called me a bit because I said cook county is less then 3% of Illinois. How does that make me a nut? Is my math wrong? ===
Yes. Because dirt doesn’t vote.
===By separating we would have a voice in who and what we elect===
You have that now. It’s called a vote. One person, one vote. You were overwhelmingly out-voted last year in the biggest rout in a century. Work on that. All you’re doing with this goofy idea is showing everyone who voted the other way that they were justified.
Politics is a game of addition, not subtraction. Your subtraction is a dead-bang loser. And you’re being played by people who’ve convince you that this has a chance of becoming reality. Remember the “Monorail!” episode? Same.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:45 pm
Robert, your ridiculous insistence that Cook County is 3 percent of Illinois has put you in timeout. Go take a nap, do a little informative reading and then come back another day. Your Russian bot-like comments are no longer welcome here.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:54 pm
I say, let them go…..as long as they understand that DuPage, Kane, Will, Lake, McHenry, and probably Kendall are all staying with Chicago. Then U if I, ISU, NIU ,etc. will really be underfunded.
Comment by ajjacksson Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 1:59 pm
To Robert: Your posts aren’t getting through. Give up. Also, the 1st Amendment is a protection from government regulation. This is private property.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:21 pm
“disenfranchise: deprive (someone) of a right or privilege”
There are quite a few people, from both parties, who feel Chicago-centric mentalities among state leadership has caused a diminishing of rights and privileges. Further, they feel that it is done in a way that is felt more intensely outside of Chicago.
Given that government, almost by definition, takes away rights and reserves those for itself–you don’t think there is “objective standard” by which Illinois may have taken it too far?
I’ve talked to plenty of people who feel that. I also think their opinion and experiences are worth almost as much as yours.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:31 pm
===who feel===
More victims.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:39 pm
Liandro, I think it’s super that you are so in touch with your feelings. Those Dixon council meetings must be a New Agey Happenin’, with everyone talking about their feelings.
Now that you’ve shared your feelings, tell more about the “rights and privileges” you actually have been deprived of by representative democracy.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:40 pm
“There are quite a few people, from both parties, who feel Chicago-centric mentalities among state leadership has caused a diminishing of rights and privileges.”
Let me ask you if you have had any of the following occur as a result of “losing rights and privileges”
1. Anyone stopped you from worshiping in the way you choose to?
2. Anyone stopped you from speaking your mind in public forum or area?
3. Anyone stopped you from holding a meeting or associating with friends or groups of people?
4. Anyone stopped you from owning a firearm?
5. Anyone stopped your local paper or radio station from running an “anti gvt story”.
Let me know when any of the above happen then you can talk about losing rights.
Comment by Give Me A Break Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:42 pm
Thanks. I thrive off conversations that replace respect with acerbic ad hominum comments, so you really help me flower! We should get coffee sometime; I’m fairly certain it would be amusing.
To your question: Personally, I’d like to be able to legally bargain over public safety pensions. I’d settle for plenty of compromise ideas that address the same challenge, though
I’d go on, but I get the mild sense you’re more interested in being acerbic than insightful. Let me know if you ever want that coffee.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:53 pm
=== Personally, I’d like to be able to legally bargain over public safety pensions===
If you think the cop and firefighters unions are any less tough Downstate than they are in Chicago you got another think coming.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:56 pm
I was first made aware of this issue almost 30 years ago. I coach a high school team that was in a State Championship Game. We flipped for home team, after which the umpire said, “Are there any questions?” The opposing coach, from Downstate, asked “Why aren’t there more teams from Downstate in this tournament?”
Even the numerical fact that over 75% of the “big” schools in the IHSA are within a 60 mile radius of Chicago does not matter to some Downstate people. Numbers or money mean nothing to them. They are already convinced that it’s “unfair.” Charles Schulz, through Lucy, said of them, “Don’t confuse me with facts. My mind is made up already.”
Comment by ajjacksson Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 2:59 pm
This becomes a lot easier to understand when you know that until very recently, one of the Effingham County public schools had religion classes that were practically mandatory (the church owns the school) and changed that practice only when the ACLU stepped in, which really honked them all off. Also, nothing in Effingham happens without the approval of St. Anthony’s Catholic Church. Don’t even think about moving up in your career unless you’re a member.
Comment by Still Waiting Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 3:22 pm
Still Waiting, I didn’t believe you, so I looked it up…
===”What we’ve never seen before is a circumstance where the public school schedules its bus routes to accommodate a religious studies program,” [ACLU spokesman Ed Yohnka] said. “Then, teachers in this same public school have to separate and segregate kids by religion. We are exploring what this is like emotionally for the kids when they are forced to separate from their classmates.”
The Rev. Ken Rossweg, associate pastor at St. Francis, said Teutopolis public schools have been engaged in religious education since the dawn of public education in this village founded by German Catholic immigrants. The program enjoys widespread community support, he noted.===
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 3:27 pm
Only time Chicagoans ever think of Effingham is for the McDonald’s on I-57 for the lunchtime bathroom break on the way to Memphis.
I spent a lot of time downstate, and every chance I was with one In 312-land I converted said downstaters into Chicago fans. All it takes is the right places to go and an open mind.
Robert, want to come visit? I have an extra bedroom. I won’t even make fun of your grammar (which IRL is more than your mother’s mother)
Comment by 312 Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 3:32 pm
–To your question: Personally, I’d like to be able to legally bargain over public safety pensions.–
That’s a “right,” from which you’ve been “disenfranchised?”
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 3:42 pm
If they could get Jasper and Crawford on board they might be able to convince the remaining 98 counties to let Indiana have ‘em.
Comment by CEA Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 3:44 pm
–Also, nothing in Effingham happens without the approval of St. Anthony’s Catholic Church. Don’t even think about moving up in your career unless you’re a member.–
So a theocracy is the objective?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 3:46 pm
===a diminishing of rights and privileges.===
Which rights? Which privileges?
Comment by Nick Name Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:01 pm
Also, and Liandro I cringe that I am piling on, but your hypothesis on how “government” gets rights isn’t even correct in our legal/social tradition. Government, as it is made up of people and is not in and of itself a natural thing, is given rights by the people through a constitution. Those rights the “government” uses are your rights. You aren’t disenfranchised, and while your privilege (from Latin for a separate set of laws and treatments) may be diminished that “isn’t a bug, it’s a feature” as the new wave business folks say.
Comment by sewer thoughts Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:05 pm
Yes, wordslinger. Precisely. And I’ll bet you’d have a hard time finding anyone in Effingham County who believes there are any churchgoers residing in Chicago. We’re taught Chicago is for godless heathens while rural downstate is God’s Country.
Comment by Still Waiting Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:05 pm
==Man, I just don’t get how citizens outside of Cook could feel disenfranchised.==
Another victim heard from.
==I thrive off conversations that replace respect with acerbic ad hominum comments==
Yep, still a victim.
Quite the whiner today aren’t you Liandro?
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:07 pm
Based on the activities of the Effingham County Board I can see at least one unit of local government that could be eliminated. They really have nothing more pressing than to consider these goofy resolutions? I’m embarassed for them.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:08 pm
The privileged majority acting like the oppressed minority can be very dangerous in its extreme, as recent history teaches us. This isn’t just the case downstate, it’s also the case elsewhere in America, where white Americans think minorities have it better than them, and more rights.
We have a president who purposely stokes resentment, demonizing and scapegoating undocumented Latin Americans, among others. How many who despise Chicago accept and love Trump and what he’s doing, like repeatedly calling the news media the enemy of the people, for example?He’s making things much worse and purposely inciting violence, as we’ve already seen.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:20 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Many of us downstaters, and I’m waaaay downstate near Kentucky, think this idea is the creation of halfwits and just used by pols to keep constituents loyal. BTW, I also vote mostly GOP and still do not fall for this. I realize the economic impact large corporations like Allstate, Walgreens, ADM, etc have on the rest of our state.
Comment by Alex Ander Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:35 pm
“Many of us downstaters, and I’m waaaay downstate near Kentucky, think this idea is the creation of halfwits”
Glad to see the sensible voices who are not embracing this. We also have a governor who talks respectfully and doesn’t foment this kind of stuff.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 4:58 pm
@sewer thoughts:
First, amusing name. Second, don’t worry about piling on–I’ve survived worse than the CapFax regulars, heh. But, to your point:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”
The Constitution (Amendment X) specifically sets up a tension between the states and the people when it comes to rights. So I stand by my point: our system is based on the state taking rights (rightly or wrongly, depending on your viewpoint) from the people.
My original point is that there is a large swath of people who feel that the state, via Chicago’s influence, are imposing regional viewpoints in a state-wide manner. Or, in some cases, unconstitutionally–as demonstrated by Supreme Court cases.
While some are perfectly comfortable meeting that with disdain, I would hope state officials take a closer look at the underlying dynamic and make an effort to ameliorate the parts that are valid.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 5:20 pm
Sorry for the late post, but a point of information, re “In Illinois cook county takes up less then 3% of the land and yet their policies control 100% of the state.”:
“Legislators represent people, not trees or acres. Legislators are elected by voters, not farms or cities or economic interests.” Chief Justice Earl Warren, Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964).
Charlie Wheeler
Comment by Charlie Wheeler Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 5:25 pm
Revolution.
Comment by Enemy of the State Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 5:29 pm
“My original point is that there is a large swath of people who feel that the state, via Chicago’s influence, are imposing regional viewpoints in a state-wide manner.”
Downstate would impose its views on Chicago if they won key elections, so let’s put aside the special victimhood.
“Revolution”
Secessionists lost last time, and they’ll lose again. Enjoy this bunch, Republicans.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 5:59 pm
==when the ACLU stepped in, which really honked them all off.==
A local person whose children went to Teutopolis public school challenged this practice. This person is referred to as Parent Doe.
==This becomes a lot easier to understand==
It’s less easier to understand, because Parent Doe lives in Teutopolis, this has nothing to do with Chicago or state legislators.
Also, according to the press, the board and Parent Doe came to an amicable agreement and the students can still go to religious classes same as before. https://www.effinghamdailynews.com/news/local_news/update-teutopolis-school-officials-agree-to-aclu-settlement/article_290aac6e-06aa-11e6-b53e-4f159e129260.html
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 6:39 pm
“Downstate would impose its views on Chicago if they won key elections, so let’s put aside the special victimhood.”
Two thoughts:
1. You could be right, depending on who was in those key spots, but how is that relevant?
First of all, the answer is better cooperation and respect, not seizing power and imposing maximum will (see: Rauner). Second, a split government is far more likely than a downstate sweep any time soon…or ever. Even if Republicans were to hold all key positions, it’s hard to imagine it would be all downstate Republicans.
2. Why are so many commenters on this blog obsessed with victims and victimhood? At this point it’s just a lazy rhetorical device that has been rendered meaningless on this blog. Escape the group-think and take the time to make a point.
Or, as I told Demoralized, take the time to come up with a put-down creative enough to get the lols.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 6:41 pm
I’m genuinely curious about what it is about Effingham County that has fueled this temper tantrum in recent years. I’d have assumed it would have started in Wayne, White, Lawrence or a similar county, not Effingham. I’d almost call Effingham County ‘prosperous’ by Southern Illinois standards.
Comment by SIUEalum Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 6:42 pm
–The Constitution (Amendment X) specifically sets up a tension between the states and the people when it comes to rights.–
Again, what rights of yours have been “disenfranchised?” You could just get specific and skip the Schoolhouse Rock lesson.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 6:45 pm
Alex Ander I believe you. If it makes you feel any better, Cook County has a few “halfwits” too.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 6:46 pm
“Laugh, mock, and chuckle all you want.”
We are not laughing. There is nothing funny about this. Tribalism didn’t work out for the Tutsis and the Hutus. Tribalism always leads to sorrow.
Comment by Patriot Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 7:07 pm
===If it makes you feel any better, Cook County has a few “halfwits” too===
We have roughly 5 out of every 12 Illinois halfwits. If you like halfwits, you’ll love Cook County.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 7:24 pm
@word:
I answered and it appears to have been moderated. I run into that problem a bit and have stopped retyping entire comments. My response to @sewer thoughts was not moderated for whatever reason.
That said I’ll attempt to restate my lost comment: the right of employees/employers to bargain over benefits is clearly something that state statute has taken a good chunk of. That’s no small thing, since it involves one of the largest financial challenges faced in some communities.
I’m not sure why you disagree, since you didn’t actually make a point in disagreement–you just issued a challenge for me to defend. Minimum wage is another example: employers (and employees, in some cases where they are priced out of a labor market) would have broader rights, under federal law, to negotiate wages.
Requiring a FOID is another: clearly US citizens are allowed (without state statute imposing more limits) to own guns without one. Concealed carry used to be an example, but the court stepped in.
We could go down a list, but I’m more curious on why you disagree. The state clearly takes away rights that would otherwise reside with individuals or with local governments/organizations.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 7:31 pm
Liandro, you talk about the state as if it is some strange entity. In fact, the state is We the People. We formed a government to do together what none of us can do individually.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 7:40 pm
–Requiring a FOID is another: clearly US citizens are allowed (without state statute imposing more limits) to own guns without one. Concealed carry used to be an example, but the court stepped in.–
You’re uninformed.
The Supremes allow states to require any number of restrictions on gun ownership. And neither the 7th Circuit nor the Supremes have found conceal carry to be a right in-and-of itself.
Try the google.
In Illinois, concealed-carry is allowed under statute that was passed by a super-majority in the House and Senate.
Without the support of Madigan and Cullerton, and votes by Cook County Democrats, Quinn’s veto of the law would have been sustained.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 8:00 pm
@47th Ward:
It is created by We the People. I’d be naive to not recognize a government’s potential for any number of dangers that can follow: subterfuge, manipulation, power-hoarding, mob rule, self-exemption, etc.
Gerrymandering is an example. It has a long bipartisan tradition, but courts appear to now be making more moves against this power-hoarding tactic. Whatever it’s legal status, though, the ethics involves were the same a hundred years ago as they are today.
@wordslinger:
You merely restated what I said. The Supremes “allow” they don’t “mandate”. Unless a state statute intervenes, gun rights is not abridged by something like a FOID. Put another way: Illinois limits that right in a way many other states do not.
As for your super-majority law on concealed-carry: are you arguing that a court rulings played no part in how Illinois ended up with concealed carry? The final vehicle was legislative, sure, but under duress.
Anyway, what is your actual counter-point? That Illinois DOESN’T take for itself rights that would otherwise fall to individuals or local governments/organizations?
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 8:32 pm
@Liandro…no matter your gripe, this Effingham County board will not succeed at their attempt. You all could vote for it 100%, put it on your ballot and it would still be considered advisory, or non binding.
Congress is unlikely to approve the creation of ANY new states right now, especially one that is likely to have Dem congressional reps/senators like Chicago.
You’re essentially advocating for “taking your ball and going home” because you didn’t like the results of the election. As has been said above, a lot of us don’t like Trump, nor Madigan, nor Pritzker, much as a lot of people didn’t like Rauner. Elections have consequences and you appear to be suffering through some. The sun will shine again for you someday, I strongly suggest you (and others of your ilk) build a bridge and get over it.
There are plenty of better hills to die on. This ain’t it, chief
Comment by Springfield Westsider Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 8:42 pm
Your assertion that rights are being “taken” is absurd.
Thank goodness you aren’t a civics teacher. Our kids would be more uninformed on the topic than they are now
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 8:43 pm
@demoralized:
Basic civics understands that, as with any government, there are inherent dangers associated with majority rule governments.
One of those dangers is what we are discussing here: that a majority can ignore the interests of the minority. It’s a pretty common problem; indeed, many feel the U.S. Senate is losing it’s place as a bastion against that. They’re probably right.
But I give you kudos for coming up with a better insult than “victim”, no matter how badly you missed the mark.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:17 pm
===It is created by We the People.===
And it’s also operated that way, by people. Aren’t you an elected official?
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:17 pm
@Springfield:
No worries, I’m not a supporter of separation. Far from it. I think we should be more unified.
Comment by Liandro Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:18 pm
@word
>>>>In Illinois, concealed-carry is allowed under statute that was passed by a super-majority in the House and Senate.
>>>>Without the support of Madigan and Cullerton, and votes by Cook County Democrats, Quinn’s veto of the law would have been sustained.
We have CCL in Illinois because without a CCL bill passed by the Illinois legislature, we would have had no law against carry, due to the Moore v Madigan and Shepard v Madigan federal lawsuits.
Comment by Take the F out of Ham Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:37 pm
Rich, I would never lie to you, especially about education in the 217. And to da big bad wolf, in Effingham Co., the ACLU is shorthand for Chicago and all things Democrat and liberal. Sure, the parent that contacted the ACLU lived in the district, but did their family come here from Germany in the 1800’s? If not, thank you; next.
Comment by Still Waiting Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 9:59 pm
–We have CCL in Illinois because without a CCL bill passed by the Illinois legislature, we would have had no law against carry, due to the Moore v Madigan and Shepard v Madigan federal lawsuits.–
There were options other than a “will issue” conceal-carry law that would have passed court muster.
– “may issue,” either open carry or conceal carry.
– an open-carry or conceal-carry state law with home-rule exemptions.
–Anyway, what is your actual counter-point? That —Illinois DOESN’T take for itself rights that would otherwise fall to individuals–
I don’t understand what that means. Do you mean individual rights aren’t unlimited? If so, yeah I got that on Schoolhouse Rock. And the state is also organized to guarantee individual rights through the rule of law.
I’m not sure what that has to do with your original point about “feelings” of being “disenfranchised.”
Local governments are creations of the state. They are what the state says they are.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:01 pm
Also, wolf, if you were here, you would understand how angry people were about that settlement, and how that anger has been bubbling under the surface ever since. These resolutions are venting that anger. Facts and law don’t matter nearly as much as feeling and Facebook. Anyone who dares think differently than they do or point out that schools have to follow state and federal law are subject to mob rule, and it ain’t pretty.
Comment by Still Waiting Tuesday, Apr 16, 19 @ 10:45 pm
As someone with several family members in the Teutopolis school district, please allow me to say:
1. If you check Effingham County’s demographic data, you’ll find it hasn’t moved much either way since the 2000 census. They make lots of babies in Effingham County. Then those kids move away after high school.
2. Plenty of Effingham County families have relatives in Cook, DuPage, Will, Kane, Lake Counties. The folks that moved to those places do indeed think about the downstaters when they come here for weddings, baptisms, funerals, family reunions, and various holidays.
3. They don’t necessarily mind Hispanic or Asian folks. They just prefer to keep them on TV and out of their county.
4. The Effingham County Board and others are welcome to vote on secession. I’m pretty certain the collar counties will vote to stay with She-caw-go (as Oswego Willy says). I live in Champaign County now, and I’m pretty certain Champaign, McLean, and Peoria areas will vote to stay with Chicago. Don’t know how Macon and Sangamon Counties will vote, but I can guarantee that the businessmen in Springfield will be tallying up how much they earn from legislators from those areas, and voting with their pocketbooks.
Comment by Lynn S. Wednesday, Apr 17, 19 @ 2:37 am
== but did their family come here from Germany in the 1800’s? If not, thank you; next.==
Since the paper calls the parent Parent Doe I can’t answer that question. I’m don’t understand your point. Are you saying the parent was a pariah in the community anyway because his family DIDN’T come from Germany in the 1800s?
==you would understand how angry people were about that settlement, and how that anger has been bubbling under the surface ever since.==
I don’t think if I lived there I would understand people being angry about a schedule change. That’s all that happened. The religious classes are still there, they are still the same, they are offered at a different time. Look I’m a parent. I didn’t like every schedule change for the kids. But angry all the time about a schedule change? That person must be angry about buying cookies and finding out there is a broken one, or a leaf fell on his car and stained it, or the garbage men were late picking up the garbage that day. Life must be a gauntlet of pain and misery. I think such a person wouldn’t be healed by a location change. Life would be hard anywhere that person lived.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Apr 17, 19 @ 6:25 am
We ain’t going anywhere. Losers don’t get to call the shots. They’re not going to break apart our wonderful and historic state, deeply embedded in our country, huge problems though it has. Many love Trump and voted for Rauner, and they made debt and deficit explode. Who are these people to politically hate anybody?
Now Chicago has a gay African-American female mayor who’s in a same sex marriage and has a child. That ought to make some downstate folks real happy.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Apr 17, 19 @ 8:16 am
Can I get an additional explanation as to why some comments are moderated and some are not. It seems that I’m not the only one with this problem sometimes. It’s maddening.
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Apr 17, 19 @ 8:23 am