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* ProPublica Illinois has published a follow-up report to its story about how some upper-income parents have given up guardianship of their children to allow them to qualify for need-based college financial aid programs, including state MAP grants…
[A parent from a wealthy community in southwestern Lake County] said she and her husband both work, earning more than $200,000 a year, to support their two teenage sons. The family is among those who have allowed their guardianship petition to lapse following the reports about the tactic.
“Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?” the Lake County mother asked. “They will have to take huge loans and not be able to pay.”
Both of her sons want to become doctors. The guardianship strategy may have helped them avoid hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, she said. That now seems inevitable.
“I don’t want to be discouraging them, but I’m looking at this and thinking, ‘I have to support them all of their life?’” she said.
She worries her sons will get “stuck doing something they don’t like,” perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.
Um, wow.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:25 pm
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===“Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?” the Lake County mother asked. “They will have to take huge loans and not be able to pay.”===
(Enter Merit Scholarships)
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:26 pm
So, only the families without money should have to pay?
Comment by Ok Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:26 pm
This is too easy, not worth the easy picks other than until people are willing to reform post-secondary education (trades, community college, four-year), these are decisions her sons and thousands of others have to make.
Comment by Anon Snowflake Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:28 pm
Why should I have to pay taxes on this mansion if there are no toilets?
You can’t prove I applied for the homeowners exemption.
This is the example we have set.
Comment by Rutro Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:29 pm
===So, only the families without money should have to pay?===
Merit scholarships look not on the family, but the high school academic achievement of each student and awards top students, without worry of family income, monies to further their education and help recruit worthy students to higher education institutions.
Illinois, as a whole state, is lagging far behind in this endeavor, and these type of legal decisions point directly to that.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:29 pm
===perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.===
White privilege is an over-used and politically charged term these days. However, if you wanted an easy-to-understand and real-world example of it, it would be hard to find a better example than this.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:31 pm
I sent my two to college they have no debt and neither do I. Of course I started saving and investing the day they were born….
besides I know at least two people who became doctors and let the US Air Force and US Navy pay…
Comment by Fav human Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:38 pm
Soo… What I gathered from this is these parents have been enabling little Jonny and Jimmy their entire lives.
So congrats Mom and Dad. Your worst fear of having “to support them all of their life” is probably your kids long term plan.
Comment by Soo... Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:39 pm
I should also mention my total household income has always been less than 200k. Much less..
Comment by Fav human Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:39 pm
===I sent my two to college they have no debt and neither do I. Of course I started saving and investing the day they were born….===
You’re the exception, not the rule.
Well done, sincerely. That’s a credit to you.
===What I gathered from this is these parents have been enabling little Jonny and Jimmy their entire lives.
So congrats Mom and Dad. Your worst fear of having “to support them all of their life” is probably your kids long term plan.===
Huh?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:41 pm
Her concern is perfectly legitimate. All children of higher income parents don’t automatically fund their children’s whole education because they either don’t want to or don’t have the means to. For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc? Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies? Food for thought.
Comment by Necessary Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:41 pm
==perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.===
Umm, it’s not an either/or proposition. You can get a great education and get a great job without having to pay $60K-$80K in tuition.
Comment by Steve Rogers Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:41 pm
It’s probably safe to say these two sons didn’t learn much empathy in this home. Here’s hoping they learn some when they are out in the real world, before they become doctors.
Comment by Don't Bloc Me In Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:45 pm
Why did that woman (and her husband) even bother to have children? I feel so sorry for those boys.
Comment by RIJ Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:46 pm
==She worries her sons will get “stuck doing something they don’t like,” perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.==
Oh come on. One can get a great education at a community college.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:48 pm
===All children of higher income parents don’t automatically fund their children’s whole education because they either don’t want to or don’t have the means to. For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc?===
Here’s the rub;
If those students are “average” to “above average”, they face the issues ALL students that are… you guessed it… “average” of “above average”, because getting into institutions like UIUC don’t usually accept “average” or “above average”
The point was students doing this for places like UIUC… places with very-very limited “merit” scholarships, even for students in the top 5% of their class or top 3% in ACT/SAT.
That’s the ball game.
===Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies?===
Again, merit scholarships don’t see or measure assistance that way.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:49 pm
===It’s probably safe to say…===
No, it’s not safe to say. At all.
When a family is faced with $200K worth of student loans, be it the student, parent(s), both, the cost of higher education and measuring assistance solely on financial measures, it takes away higher education from more than just what other measures say are “lower to moderate” income households.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:52 pm
===Her concern is perfectly legitimate===
Baloney.
Her concerns are borderline sickness.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:53 pm
Rich: I agree with every word of your comment at 12:53 except the word “borderline”.
Comment by SAP Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:56 pm
==Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies?===
Most kids do not get any subsidies, or at least not enough to matter, so your rich kids are in the same boat with most. Of course, you could support free college tuition for all, supported by a tax increase, but that again involves some of your money going to “others”, lessening your economic freedom.
Comment by Jibba Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:57 pm
When parents are dropping 5-6 figures on photoshopped pictures of Johnny rowing on the crew team just to get him accepted into the school of his dreams, how do you expect them to pay the tuition as well?
What kind of car(s) do the parents drive? Do their kids have their own car? What kind of vacations do they take? Do they mow their own lawn or pay someone to do it for them? Etc. We all make choices based on our priorities.
If the parents are pulling down $200k annually, that is 250% of the state median family income.
Comment by Henry Francis Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:58 pm
Hate to break the news, but two kids becoming doctors is gonna be over $500k. Which is absurd.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:58 pm
===Her concerns are borderline sickness.===
Yep. She’s a person taking actual real concerns and putting them on “11” for a 1-10 scale.
It’s incredibly wrong, it’s gaming a system denying actual worthy students facing actual hardships. There’s nothing noble or right in parenting being done here. Nothing.
There are institutions that her sons could go, options other students may not have. I say this knowing junior colleges exist. I say this knowing merit scholarships at other institutions exist, I say this that exceptionalism in thought to thinking gaming a system one doesn’t qualify is one knowing other options exist, but aren’t “acceptable” to her.
While I discuss other remedies, I find this practice she’s thinks is her answer sickening
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:59 pm
‘I have to support them all of their life?’” she said. God forbid, please let me and support them with my tax dollars while you cheat the system.
Comment by illinoyed Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:03 pm
==because they either don’t want to or don’t have the means to.==
And that justifies lying in court so their children can appear in need of financial assistance? Heaven forbid this wealthy family choose to downsize their home or cut back on expenses to support their sons post-secondary plans.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:03 pm
The cost of college has gotten ridiculous. Student debt is becoming an anchor around the necks of a generation of young people. But what ticks me off is how many wealthy people aren’t fighting to make college more accessible for anyone other than their own kids.
Here’s a great money saving tip for anyone who has young kids…
Invest in spending time at the kitchen table helping your kids studying. Both my kids had successfully passed so many AP classes in high school that they were both 1 class short of matriculating into college as sophomores. That’s a saving of nearly a year’s worth of tuition. No cheating necessary.
Comment by Lake County Mom Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:04 pm
For what its worth. My parents severed the chord when i was 18. I went to college a year. Took a 4 yr breather(?) And finished up under the GI bill. It was pretty normal in the late 60s early 70s to get the boot at 18. But i do realize times have changed.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:06 pm
==For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc?==
These parents could consider buying a home that they can afford so there is money left over to save and invest for their children’s education.
Just a thought.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:08 pm
The comment @1:08 was mine.
Comment by Enviro Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:09 pm
they’re not “their”. Ugh.
Comment by A guy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:17 pm
The problems with need based education is another article.
This is about the plauge in our society where parents manipulate the rules trying to convince themselves and society their kids are something they are not. Talk to a teacher, I suspect they have heard the same parents give one excuse after another for the past four years for their kids.
==“stuck doing something they don’t like,”==
I wanted to be Rich Miller when I grew up, but that was already taken so I had to get a real job.
Comment by the Patriot Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:19 pm
==Again, merit scholarships don’t see or measure assistance that way.==
Umm, yes they do. Little Jimmy would not qualify for tax payer subsidized student loans, MAP grants, etc. depending on their parents income. That’s literally the point.
Whether or not it’s option one (the parent refuses to pay for their child’s education) or two (they can’t afford to because they have enormous debt, due to business, home, their own education, etc.) …should these decisions bar a child from receiving tax payer funded benefits regarding college education? Should the child be excluded and buried in debt due to the decisions, or financial situation of their parents?
Comment by Necessary Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:19 pm
“Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?” t
{Must self censor to prevent permanent ban.}
Comment by Huh? Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:20 pm
The notion that the community college route is somehow substandard is simply incorrect at its foundation.
Data from a few years back indicate that Community College transfers do nearly as well in their fifth semester (first semester of their Jr. year) at the U of I as the students who started their college career there.
What they lack is about $50,000 in debt that the first two years at the U of I affords ($60,000 at the U of I vs. $10,000 or less at the CC). Most in state community colleges will start transfer minded students with an academic counselor at both the CC and the transfer college of choice.
All of this while having masters prepared faculty and classroom sizes of 15-25 instead of halls of 300 students directed by grad assistants for the prerequisite course work.
Most of these students can live at home and hold a part time job as well. The value comparison isn’t even close.
Comment by All In Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:20 pm
I work for a very expensive medical school attached to a private university. This woman needs to understand if her kids make the grades as undergrads so get us interested in them, we’re going to try to make it possible for her kids to go here.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:22 pm
On the post: wow what a nut. She should be spending time in prison for perjury.
Comment by SpfdNewb Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:23 pm
=Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies? Food for thought.=
They are not suffering, it was a choice. Some choices cost more than others.
Seems that the answer to the high cost of college for the wealthy is to lie to get free or reduced costs because they are “owed” it?
Entitled sickness.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:24 pm
===Should the child be excluded and buried in debt due to the decisions, or financial situation of their parents?===
Yep.
Other options exist if the basis *is* financial.
Gaming a system to attend a *choice* university isn’t being denied anything.
No one is forcing any student to attend any university or have any student debt.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:25 pm
@1:17pm Try reading the sentence again.
Comment by Enviro Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:25 pm
OW
Soo.. it sounds like this particular Mom has been giving her kids whatever they’ve wanted. Little Jimmy and Jonny have never had to work for it because Mom thinks things like flipping burgers is beneath her sons.
Little Jimmy and Jonny want to be doctors but are they gonna put in the work for it. Nah, they’ll smoke and drink their way through that 4 year Uni and Med school Mom wants the state to pay for. Why because Jimmy and Jonnys parents have never held them accountable for anything.
So When schools over and they drop out because they failed to do the work, who will little Jimmy and Jonny run to? Why Mom and Dad of course. In 5 years they’ll be one happy family, Mom, Dad and her their two adult children living in the basement.
~The End
Comment by Soo... Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:33 pm
I had an intern who had been an army medic. That got her GI benefits, citizenship, 2 bachelors degrees, and admission to UIC med school. She is now an emergency room doc in chgo.
That path is not for everyone. The mountains of student debt are a scourge on our society and our future. Gaming the system is even more repulsive.
Comment by Langhorne Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:37 pm
===it sounds like===
So you don’t know. You don’t.
===Little Jimmy and Jonny want to be doctors but are they gonna put in the work for it. Nah, they’ll smoke and drink their way through that 4 year Uni and Med school Mom wants the state to pay for.===
Whew. Mighty big assumption there. They’re not on your lawn, and you can be sickened by the mother’s choice, but the angry guy at the end of the bar, first assuming how the family is, then how the sons will be at college, whew. Someone hurt you sumptin’ awful, or you’re angry because you need something to be angry at, to justify… something.
===So When schools over and they drop out because they failed to do the work, who will little Jimmy and Jonny run to? Why Mom and Dad of course. In 5 years they’ll be one happy family, Mom, Dad and her their two adult children living in the basement.===
I truly feel sorry for you, and this pent up anger you must have to arbitrarily decide what folks are to make yourself feel better about being angry.
The mother is 1,000% wrong.
Your idea that you know more than that is borderline sick too.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:38 pm
Theft is theft and this is theft.
Comment by NeverPoliticallyCorrect Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:40 pm
Wait, you mean to tell me wealthy people are gaming the system for their own personal benefit? The TV tells me it is immigrants and people on welfare who are the bad guys absconding with taxpayer money…What am I to think now?
On the other hand, I’m sure those 2 boys are great lads, definitely not bullies in high school, will probably only roofie 1 or 2 girls in college, and only harass 5-6 women in the workplace.
Well at least the wealthy are still trying to protect middle class families from tax hikes that, at least according to the TV, hurt me instead of them. I’m also safe knowing global warming is a hoax, corporations pay their fair share of taxes, that if I have anything beyond the flu I’ll be bankrupt (but that’s my fault for not being rich), and that we’re on track to have Greenland as the 51st state as soon as we go to war with those pesky Danes.
Comment by JSS Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:43 pm
Look, my older brother is a doctor. He has a nice home, a nice car, 2 children in catholic school, goes on vacation AND is paying back the student loans he has had to take out to make it all happen. Being a doctor was his dream and he had to borrow money to make it happen and he would do it all again.
Comment by MFM Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:43 pm
My son is a doctor. When he explored undergrad options he chose a school that we could afford without taking on debt as he anticipated he would have the debt of med school. He could have chosen an expensive college but he knew what we could afford as we had a realistic discussion about finance before attending. This Lake County parent needs to start being a parent, which means your children do not get everything they want.
Comment by illinifan Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:43 pm
“stuck doing something they don’t like” Doesn’t that kinda define 95% of the working world?
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:44 pm
There should be an age when parents are responsible for their children legally and financially. And there should be an age at which the parents are no longer responsible.
I would suggest 21 although others might set it at 18 which is the age at which one is allowed to vote and assume many other legal responsibilities.
Right now, Undergraduate students who are under age 24 as of December 31 of the award year are considered to be dependent for federal student aid purposes unless they are married, have dependents other than a spouse, are an orphan, are a veteran or active duty member of the US Armed Forces or satisfy other very limited criteria. If a student who is under age 24 doesn’t satisfy one of these criteria, the odds of being considered independent are very slim.
Whatever that age might be, set it! And make it applicable to all situations.
Comment by Nonbeliever Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:51 pm
==Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day ==
Is she suggesting that parents who have lower incomes also do not work hard or are busy every day?
Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:55 pm
==She worries her sons will get “stuck doing something they don’t like,” perhaps attending community college==
Sorry, Timmy from the South Side, Johnny needs your share of grant money so his six figure parents can keep him from facing the horrors of community college and (gulp) a job he may not prefer. We just can’t have that.
Comment by FFS Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:58 pm
Parent: “Why are there only government programs that provide for college for the poor, and not the wealthy?”
Same parent: “They’re all socialists.”
Comment by Thomas Paine Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:00 pm
We can cast all the stones we want. But at the end of the day, “Was it legal?”
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:03 pm
“Is she suggesting that parents who have lower incomes do not work hard or aren’t busy every day?”
Yes.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:03 pm
ProTip: if reading the quotes from the mother makes you upset, try going back and reading them in an obnoxious Chicago accent for some comic relief.
Comment by A State Employee Guy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:05 pm
===We can cast all the stones we want. But at the end of the day, “Was it legal?”===
Yep.
I’ll store that away when ya decide to choose “ethical” as your rationale on something far different.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:05 pm
Their gaming of the system is unjustifiable, but these parents’ situation points to a genuine problem: above a certain income level, there’s not going to be any financial aid (and that holds true for nearly all institutions, not just UIUC). Parents in the top 5-10% income level are considered wealthy, but they may live in expensive housing, have paid for private tutors, multiple extracurricular activities, etc. in addition to a host of expenses such earners naturally associate with their expected standard of living. The cost of college is now so high that even the top 10% must normally borrow to attend. [Thus the $1 trillion in US student debt.]
They probably weren’t thinking about the cost of UIUC so much as about the cost of medical school. It was probably something like “If they can go to UIUC at reduced cost, we can save up some for med school, and they can take out substantial loans without the burden of undergraduate borrowing.”
It’s a type of reasoning frequently encountered, not that it would have even been all that helpful given the boys’ career ambitions. Average student debt from med school alone (excluding undergrad debt) is now around $200,000 - and can go much, much higher if one attends a private school, studies in a city with a high cost of living, etc.
The mother’s comment re: community college / working in fast food if they can’t become doctors is saying the quiet part out loud. This is how many people at her income level think - it’s either all-or-nothing.
There’s really only one way to (even begin to) level the higher education playing field: free tuition. It’s not a complete solution to adult income inequality, but it’s a start.
Comment by dbk Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:07 pm
===I’m sure those 2 boys are great lads, definitely not bullies in high school, will probably only roofie 1 or 2 girls in college, and only harass 5-6 women in the workplace.===
It’s amazing the pent up anger some feel that they project futures and personalities on people they don’t know to feel better about having that anger.
===Well at least the wealthy are still trying to protect middle class families from tax hikes that, at least according to the TV, hurt me instead of them. I’m also safe knowing global warming is a hoax, corporations pay their fair share of taxes, that if I have anything beyond the flu I’ll be bankrupt (but that’s my fault for not being rich), and that we’re on track to have Greenland as the 51st state as soon as we go to war with those pesky Danes.===
Ironically, with no snark. Sincerely.
I hope you feel better now. I hope that helped.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:09 pm
Caution… snark.
“They will have to take huge loans and not be able to pay.”
So, mom is assuming that the boys won’t be successful??? Surely her sense of “entitlement” was passed on to them, and they will get everything they ever wished for in life handed to them so there’s no money issues( banned punctuation). / snark
“Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?”
To me, this sounds like “keeping up with the Joneses” ain’t working out too well. Are her two boys simply “trophies”? As many others here have pointed out, there are many paths to becoming a doctor that don’t have exhobinant costs associated. The path may be longer, but it may be much more rewarding… on so many levels for these two young men.
Comment by Anon221 Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:13 pm
Wow. Entitled much?
Comment by B-non Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:19 pm
==But at the end of the day, “Was it legal?”==
Only if the parents were being forthright on their child’s guardianship petition to the court.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:19 pm
The only positive from this clueless statement is maybe the upper middle class will begin to see how they are being impacted by our national disparity of wealth problem. My bet is that she would rather pretend to be rich and continue to game the system rather than support policies that lower student debt for all students.
Comment by G Major Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:20 pm
===Only if the parents were being forthright on their child’s guardianship petition to the court.===
Exactly.
I was waiting to see if - Downstate - was gonna respond, but that was where I wanted it to end.
Well done.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:22 pm
Nonbeliever 1:51, I was a “non-traditional” college grad who got the benefit of being considered “independent” when I went back to college. Between working every chance I had during breaks and on weekends, going after every grant and scholarship I could find, and living frugally as possible, *and going to community college for the first two years* I finished with a degree at UIUC and no college debt. I think the age of 24 for independence for college aid is about right; and there are mechanisms for under-24s who are truly estranged from their parents to be treated as independents, as one girl I knew at ISU had to go thru that process.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:23 pm
Look, this particular mother’s comments are absolutely wacky… but to the degree commenters here are willing to paint a broad brushstroke about her children, or how the mentality of the “wealthy” works, is equally as wacky.
First, everything is relative. A family earning $125,000 and living in central Illinois may be “richer” than a family living in SE Lake County making $200,000. Of course, all depending on circumstances.
Second, there are self-entitled, self-centered people across all geographies and socio-economics. Let’s not pretend that because one lives in an area that is considered not as wealthy compared to a “richer” Chicago suburb, that the people automatically have a better work ethic and more virtuous.
Comment by Just Observing Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:31 pm
OW, don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich? I think we read here once about how schools of wealthy people have higher test scores because they have better access. Thus, if poor kids cannot get access to the better schools to get better merit and they are being cheated out of things meant to only help the disadvantaged, are we still not helping them?
And as a disclaimer I will also admit, I am that fiscal guy that paid for all my kids college without any help and without any debt as I planned it from their birth.
Comment by R A T Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:32 pm
- R A T -
I’d love to answer, but I fear I’ll be tiresome.
:)
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:38 pm
===don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich?===
Since it’s merit based, and not financial, if one can meet the benchmarks, no one should be denied merit based monies based on a measurable academic standard.
“don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich?”
Doesn’t financial aid disproportionately help those most needy, no matter the academic merit?
What merit scholarships do… is stop the overt cheating for families that can help their students achieve higher excellence in school… and be rewarded for that.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:44 pm
===don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich?===
If Illinois wants to continue to keep out students that are in the top 5-10%, who score in the top 3-5% in ACT/SAT and squeeze out, deemed too “wealthy” for income based scholarships, out of Illinois universities, like UIUC, UIC, etc, then scams like this mom is advocating will continue, or students will leave like they’ve been doing, at a clip only eclipsed by New Jersey.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:49 pm
-Only if the parents were being forthright on their child’s guardianship petition to the court.
Is that the standard for guardianship? I’m only asking because I don’t know.
Many things lack ethics, but are still legal.
Politicos who take a new position for 30 days prior to retirement to “goose” their final pension calculation would be a classic example.
Comment by Downstate Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:52 pm
===Politicos who take a new position for 30 days prior to retirement to “goose” their final pension calculation would be a classic example.===
Then you must be fine with that, since it’s legal and all.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:54 pm
===Politicos who take a new position for 30 days prior to retirement to “goose” their final pension calculation===
That’s no longer allowed.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:56 pm
Apologies… *was* legal…
That’s on me, answering in the present.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:56 pm
OW, of your three answers to my question, I liked your last one the best.
Comment by R A T Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:02 pm
DS,
https://www.19thcircuitcourt.state.il.us/1322/Guardianship-of-Minorst
The loophole is the phrase “A minor needs a guardian…when the parents are unable or unwilling to care for the minor.”
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:05 pm
===your three answers===
It’s a complicated situation.
If it were easy…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:06 pm
(No snark) Willy I cant “keep up” with you on this.
I’ll say this: I’m allow to have my opinions (based on personal experience with affluent parents in Lake Co.) however much you disagree.
Because for the record, Yes this mom angers me. I didnt have parents making $200K a year. I didnt have choices, I had work to succeed. That included burger flipping. To hear her be not only be oblivious but also demeaning at the same time does bothers me.
I really do hope Jimmy and Jonny earn their opportunities but I wont hold my breath waiting for them to prove someone like me wrong.
Comment by Soo... Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:13 pm
===I’ll say this: I’m allow to have my opinions (based on personal experience with affluent parents in Lake Co.) however much you disagree.===
… and yet, you’re projecting that on people you don’t know.
Might as well call them “those people” with that rationale.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:16 pm
Phew. Didn’t know class rage could physically bubble up in my throat.
Listen, if that lady was willing to say that knowing it’d be published, imagine the stuff she didn’t say.
I think we all agree that college tuition/loans is a complex issue (in that it feels insane), but folks like the woman above who treat it like the high cost of college is somehow *only a problem for them* is maddening. Everyone is dealing with this in their own way, and the reason she’s mad about flushing money down the toilet is because she has money to flush. The generational wealth she’s going to pass down to her sons - even if they take the loans for it all - will set them up above the vast majority of people in this country. Complain quietly, jeez.
Comment by lakeside Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:56 pm
=Might as well call them “those people” with that rationale.=
I’m black, Willy.
But you ignored or at the very least cherry picked my last comment. While Yes I’m venting due to the correlation from previous experience with people that may or may not be this Mom/family (you don’t know either) I dont hold it against the kids no matter how much snark im projecting on them.
====I really do hope Jimmy and Jonny earn their opportunities but I wont hold my breath waiting for them to prove someone like me wrong.
Lastly Willy, I’ve also noticed how when people express something that comes form a place of personal experience, you just outright dismiss or discount it. I comes off very preachy and lecturing, Like projecting yourself on people you don’t know.
That reminds me of something you said to me “Your idea that you know more than that is borderline sick too.”
Comment by Soo... Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 4:26 pm
===I’m black===
“And?”
You typed…
======I’ll say this: I’m allow to have my opinions (based on personal experience with affluent parents in Lake Co.) however much you disagree.===
Someone, no matter the race decides that’s their rationale…
===I(t) comes off very preachy and lecturing, Like projecting yourself on people you don’t know.===
… says the person projecting their thoughts on two students he/she doesn’t know, and wants that to seem ok. lol
===That reminds me of something you said to me “Your idea that you know more than that is borderline sick too.”===
Projecting on folks you don’t know, yep, I stand by it.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 4:30 pm
- So… -
===Little Jimmy and Jonny want to be doctors but are they gonna put in the work for it. Nah, they’ll smoke and drink their way through that 4 year Uni and Med school Mom wants the state to pay for.
…
So When schools over and they drop out because they failed to do the work, who will little Jimmy and Jonny run to? Why Mom and Dad of course. In 5 years they’ll be one happy family, Mom, Dad and her their two adult children living in the basement.===
You want this to be ok to say because of your race?
I’m confused.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 4:37 pm
==ProTip: if reading the quotes from the mother makes you upset, try going back and reading them in an obnoxious Chicago accent for some comic relief.==
Wow. I guess some people never miss a chance for some Chicago bashing. Even if the woman is from around Barrington.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 5:32 pm
===I’ve also noticed how when people express something that comes form a place of personal experience, you just outright dismiss or discount it===
Anecdotal is not factual.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 6:02 pm
I have a doctor son. He got two years of undergrad on me and mrs. BLUE. He is nearly $325k in student loan debt. Yearly income a tad below $400k. Albeit, he didnt enter the work world til 30, he will survive.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 7:35 pm
“For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc?”
Median household income in Illinois is roughly $79K. If you can’t make it on 3x what most people have to budget for, then you need professional help.
Comment by Odysseus Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 8:56 pm
== The generational wealth she’s going to pass down to her sons - even if they take the loans for it all - will set them up above the vast majority of people in this country. ==
My guess is there isn’t going to be much generational wealth. This sounds like someone who spends every dime they earn. If it were otherwise, she wouldn’t have to participate in an elaborate ruse to obtain financial aid. A fiscally responsible individual making 200k + a year shouldn’t have a problem helping their kids pay for college. . .
Comment by Cars Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 10:52 am
== Median household income in Illinois is roughly $79K. If you can’t make it on 3x what most people have to budget for, then you need professional help. ==
Indeed.
Comment by cars Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 10:52 am
“merit” aid is almost exclusively a reward for being born in an area with high property taxes for public education or to parents who paid for private school, tutors, and test prep.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 3:40 pm
===almost===
…but it’s not.
If it was, then *every* student that is of a similar demographic would get merit scholarships. They don’t.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 3:43 pm
Ma’am, there is a third option. It’s called Mom and Dad take out loans to cover the kids’ college educations. And then pay them off.
It’s not a lot of fun, but it gets your kids through the colleges they want to attend without burdening them with overwhelming debt at the beginning of their careers — and doesn’t require unethical gaming of the system. If you’re earning two bucks a year, you can handle the payments. Please give me a call if you need more info.
Comment by Soccermom Friday, Aug 23, 19 @ 11:56 am