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* Press release…
House Republican legislators held a Zoom press conference on Wednesday to address concerning delays in FOID card and Concealed Carry Licenses (CCLs) processing, and discussed their shared 2nd Amendment focused legislative agenda.
State Rep. Avery Bourne (R-Morrisonville) named several constituents by name that have felt the strain and anxiety caused by the delays in processing FOID and CCLs.
“When it comes to our most basic rights, like the right to keep and bear arms, there is no room for error or delay,” Bourne said. “I hear every single day from frustrated constituents who have been waiting months upon months to receive renewals or initial FOID cards and concealed carry licenses. The Pritzker administration is failing to lead on this issue. Illinoisans deserve better.”
State Rep. CD Davidsmeyer (R-Jacksonville) argued if the state of Illinois cannot operate the FOID program in an efficient manner, the program should be eliminated.
“If the State Police can’t get the FOID program to work within the allotted time, it should be suspended immediately. We are required to follow the law, but they are not!”
State Rep. Mike Marron (R-Fithian) says his office handles dozens of calls from frustrated residents every month. Most of the time, Marron says, answers are hard to come by.
“Over the last year, my office has received hundreds of constituent complaints on the FOID card renewal process,” Marron said. “There has been a steady increase of approval delays leading to many frustrated citizens unable to speak with a live person when checking on their FOID renewal and approval status. This has been a problem for a long time pre-dating the Covid-19 pandemic. The Democrat majority swept $28,000,000 million dollars out of the dedicated fund that is supposed to administer the FOID program. We are sponsoring bills to eliminate the program and end the delays.”
State Rep. Patrick Windhorst (R-Metropolis) is a former prosecutor, and member of the House Judiciary Criminal Law Committee. Windhorst says FOID delays can be fixed via legislation or full elimination of the requirement.
“Illinois is one of only four states in the Union that require citizens to obtain a FOID card,” Windhorst said. “We should eliminate the FOID card requirement. While that might not be possible given the current makeup of the General Assembly, the legislature should immediately pass reforms to ensure Illinoisans can exercise their 2nd Amendment rights without unnecessary delays in the FOID and concealed carry card process. Let’s get to work in Springfield to address these delays and provide appropriate service to our citizens.”
* From the Gun Violence Prevention Education Center/Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence…
Today, four state legislators held a press conference recommending that Illinois State Police hastily rush forward in approving the backlog of Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) Card applications.
GPEC/ICHV rejects any action expediting FOID card applications unless a thorough background check is completed. We know that rushed and reckless, gun-lobby sponsored actions like this are a threat to public safety. As gun violence prevention advocates, we also recognize that the current system does not protect the public from illegal guns. This year in Cook County alone, over 800 people died from gun violence. The State police should be very careful to issue licenses for more guns when Illinois does not have measures in place to protect the public from corrupt gun dealers and illegal gun sales.
If legislators are serious about protecting public safety and keeping firearms out of the hands of bad faith actors, they should support the Block Illegal Ownership (BIO) policy. This policy calls for a full modernization of the FOID card process which includes:
• Requiring background checks for all gun sales, including by private sellers, curbing the flow of guns into the illegal secondary market.
• Requiring applicants for FOID cards to submit fingerprints to spot dishonest applicants.
• Requiring action by Illinois State Police (ISP) to remove guns once a FOID Card is revoked.Gun violence is a public health crisis and we will not take shortcuts on the safety of our children, families and communities. GPEC/ICHV is working hard to ensure that gun ownership and gun purchases in the state of Illinois are vetted thoroughly and legally. Our one aim is to fight for a future free of gun violence.
* Illinois State Police…
The Firearms Owner’s Identification card was first enacted by the Illinois legislature 52 years ago. Since that time, the Illinois State Police Firearms Services Bureau has been tasked with the administration of the FOID card, the concealed carry license (CCL), the Firearms Transfer Inquiry Program (FTIP), gun dealer licensing, appeals, background correlations, investigative support, enforcement and customer service for the firearms safety laws of Illinois.
ROOTS OF THE CURRENT BACKLOG CHALLENGE
The demands placed on our state’s firearms safety system have been outgrowing capacity for years:
• The number of FOID card holders has grown from 1.2 million to 2.2 million in a decade.
• CCL holders grew from 90,301 in 2014 to 343,299 in 2020.
• Due to the lengthy budget impasses, the Firearms Services Fund was “swept” in 2015 and 2018 and no plan to maintain or expand staffing was developed during that period. The current administration has not swept the fund and, in 2019, new leadership over ISP FSB initiated a hiring plan and metrics-based strategic plan focused on outcomes and accountability.Then came 2020.
This year, the ISP FSB was confronted with a massive work increase across all categories:
• FOID card applications increased 167% from 166,649 in 2017 to 445,945 as of November 2020, blowing past the small surge in 2013 when CCL was enacted.
• FTIPS increased 45% from 2019 reaching 506,104 so far in 2020.
• ISP FSB processed an unprecedented 64,000+ FTIPs in March 2020 — the largest number recorded for one month until that record was broken in June with 65,000+ FTIPs.
• ISP FSB has processed more than 67,000 incoming records (correlations*) in 2020.
• More than 400,000 calls came into the FSB Call Center from May to November when a new automated phone system with metrics was activated.HOW ISP IS CONFRONTING THE CHALLENGE
ISP FSB is facing this unprecedented confluence of demands head on with increased staffing, process mapping and analysis, technology, flexibility and transparency:
• Director authorized hiring of 32 additional firearms eligibility analysts in February and additional hiring of temporary contractors.
• FSB began an active recruiting effort to fill vacant Firearms positions in the FSB and retain employees in these positions hurt by turnover.
• ISP FSB was directed in 2019 to refine application processes using well-known management analytics called Lean Six Sigma or Rapid Results, which has been used successfully across a number of sectors to increase efficiency by removing unnecessary steps and reducing variation. The ISP has used this process to reduce the Forensic backlog by 48%. ISP authorized a state-contracted service specializing in Rapid Results methodology to implement effective and efficient measures to assist in decreasing the backlog.
• ISP FSB modernized its Call Center with a Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) system in April 2020, which provides a menu of automated processes, such as status checks, payments and specific applications to replace the antiquated single line system.
• ISP online access was redesigned to allow applications to be submitted from mobile phones and tablets with user ID and password recovery capabilities to improve customer service and responsiveness.
• ISP provided relief to FOID card holders and CCLs by submitting emergency rules addressing renewals during the COVID-19 epidemic through which FOID cards and CCLs remain valid during the renewal process, if a renewal application was properly submitted by the cardholder.
• ISP provided detailed, transparent briefings to the Illinois General Assembly Restore Illinois Commission and other policy makers and stakeholders throughout 2020.PROGRESS SO FAR
With staffing increases, elimination of internal redundancies, and execution of technology upgrades, some metrics are slowly, but steadily improving. This progress has been achieved by:
• hiring 21 Firearms Eligibility Analysts hired since March 2020, with 11 additional planned to start in January 2021.
• dedicating 19 temporary contractual employees to ISP FSB.
• temporarily assigning 7 sworn personnel to ISP FSB.
• implementing 7 of 14 major Lean Six Sigma changes to the process.
• the adoption of recommendations in FOID processing resulted in a 33% improvement in productivity in individual background processing.
• the implementation of the Call Center VoIP system implementation in April 2020, nearly 100,000 calls have been handled through the system’s self-service capabilities.
• cleared approximately 67,000 correlations* in CY20.
• holding down processing times averaging well below the 72-hour waiting period, even with a 45 percent increase in FTIP transactions from CY19 to CY20.
• processing 216,805 FOID applications this year.
• processing 50,557 CCLs this year.
• FSB staff working approximately 17,000 hours of overtime.
• processing more new applications were than received in October and November. This is the first time this has happened in CY20. More than 24,000 applications processed in November alone.THE CHALLENGE AHEAD
Average time for processing a FOID application is 121 days and the average time for a CCL is 145 days. These outcomes are unacceptable to the ISP. Staffing, internal modifications and technology alone will not resolve this issue. The Lean Six Sigma/Rapid Results analysis and firearms services review produced many recommendations requiring statutory authority from the General Assembly to overcome the numerous redundancies in the overlapping FOID process, the CCL process, the FTIP process and the records correlation process that double or triple the workload of ISP FSB personnel without improving public safety outcomes. With over 10,000 FOID revocations and with over 4,700 FTIP denials in 2020, enforcement also remains a serious concern. The conclusions presented to the Restore Illinois Commission in October showed the varied firearms safety processes that have evolved inconsistently over sixty years must be integrated into a modern firearms safety structure that efficiently screens applicants and prioritizes safety. This cannot be accomplished without the support of the General Assembly.
“Aurora showed to everyone that Illinois should be using less of our resources on an antiquated, outdated, inefficient, ineffective renewal process from the 1960s and more on enforcement against real threats to public safety,” said ISP Director Brendan Kelly. “Our people believe in building a system that makes it hard for the bad guys and simple and safe for the good guys. The Illinois State Police will keep pushing hard, but frankly we will need authority from the legislature to untangle, streamline and integrate the aging patchwork of FOID, concealed carry, firearms transactions, and records checks if we are going to fulfill this mission.”
*Each day hundreds of criminal history and mental health records are processed by FSB personnel and compared against current FOID cardholders. The timely correlation of these records ensures that FOID cards of prohibited individuals are revoked.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:14 pm
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Hopefully they can make a dent in this like they did the DNA backlog.
Comment by essentially working Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:18 pm
The sincerity of these legislators is undermined by their lack of support for increasing revenues to address the issues ISP outlined.
Comment by Dance Band on the Titanic Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:20 pm
These legislators should talk to Tom Bennett, Dan Caulkins, or Mike Murphy about the detailed presentation on FOID that Director Kelly presented at a legislative hearing. Answers all questions without any political posturing. Of course, that would require work out of the HGOPers and not showboating.
Comment by Precinct Captain Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:26 pm
I applied at the beginning of August 2020 and as of today, the ISP website says “under review” over 121 days later.
Comment by Just me Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:26 pm
The federal background checks are more than adequate to check to see if someone buying a gun has a criminal history. FOID is nothing more than another government intrusion into our second admendment rights.
Comment by Nieva Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:29 pm
- Illinois should be using less of our resources on an antiquated, outdated, inefficient, ineffective renewal process from the 1960s and more on enforcement against real threats to public safety -
Agreed. Let’s get rid of FOID and pass some laws with teeth to address straw purchasing and unlicensed sales.
Comment by Excitable Boy Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:30 pm
I sent my CCL renewal in on February 3rd. I have not heard anything from ISP since. That was two months before COVID lockdown.
Comment by friendofthefamily Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:32 pm
I, for one, would like to hear the GOP Representatives denounce the Rauner Administration for sweeping the funds.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:34 pm
there’s lots for them to do besides FOID and money is required. Impressive list/report from the staff.
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:36 pm
===The sincerity of these legislators is undermined by their lack of support for increasing revenues to address the issues ISP outlined.===
The FOID system is paid by user fees not General Revenue Funds so whether a legislator wants to increase revenues is irrelevant. As the director indicated in the release, previous administrations swept the funds that were used to hire people to administer the FOID/CCL programs. Plus, the GA added the Gun Dealer Licensing with no money to fund the program.
Comment by Nagidam Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:37 pm
==The federal background checks are more than adequate to check to see if someone buying a gun has a criminal history.==
Tell that to the families of the victims in the Henry Pratt shooting.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:38 pm
Nice to see certain GOP representatives focused on essential issues. Would love to see this much energy invested in issues that help the average Illinoisan survive the never-ending health crisis we currently find ourselves in.
Comment by Chicago Dem Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:41 pm
=== I, for one, would like to hear the GOP Representatives denounce the Rauner Administration for sweeping the funds.===
The phony Raunerites never miss a chance to forget the damage they and Rauner did… then pretend one of the issues brought forward was a Rauner move.
“Typical”
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:45 pm
==their lack of support for increasing revenues to address the issues ISP outlined==
FOID Owners pay a fee for the processing of this application. Those fees accumulated a $28 Million balance that should be used to address the issues… Now who is being insincere?
Comment by FormerILLobster Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:54 pm
== Plus, the GA added the Gun Dealer Licensing with no money to fund the program.==
The ga, and Pritzker, added that useless, additional lift onto fsb.
Probably not a coincidence that the processing delays have gotten worse, much worse, since that was added in 2019. Not the only reason, but one of them. For all of the talk of “improved process” and “‘metrics”, the truth is those “metrics” have not improved since their 2019 timeline. They’ve gotten exponentially worse.
If they’re telling us renewals can be delayed for a year and a half, which is what they said in their emergency rules, then they’re telling us they’re an unnecessary burden that should be eliminated.
Comment by fs Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:55 pm
Chicago Dem,
Funny, I said the same thing when all that effort was put into making sure we get more gambling establishments in Illinois. Essential, hard hitting issues!
Priorities. We don’t all share the same.
Comment by Just Some Guy Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:59 pm
- Nagidam -
They are capable of introducing legislation to increase the FOID fees to pay for these needs or identify new state revenues to backfill the money that Rauner swept from the fund and address gun dealer licensing.
The fact is they haven’t done so, hence my questioning their sincerity.
Comment by Dance Band on the Titanic Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:59 pm
Just me - Be prepared to wait a while. My FOID renewal was submitted January 5. It’s still under review. By my calculation, that’s 340 days.
Comment by 332bill Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:59 pm
Understatement of the year.
Comment by Citizen Kane Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:07 pm
===The phony Raunerites never miss a chance to forget the damage they and Rauner did===
I’ll go a little further on the accusation over the FOID ID, they were okay with Rauner sweeping the funds because they wanted the program to have issues and suffer problems, including delays, in order to use it as an excuse to demand that the FOID program be suspended or to utilize the intentionally sabotaged program as a basis for a court challenge to the law requiring the FOID.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:18 pm
The Gov’s EO only covered expired FOID Cards. There’s been a lot of houses sold this year. What happens to the ones that bought a house and are waiting on an address change stand in all this?
Comment by Notorious JMB Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:20 pm
===the program should be eliminated===
Somebody said the quiet part out loud again.
Comment by Jibba Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:21 pm
Not to mention unconstitutional
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:25 pm
== I’ll go a little further on the accusation over the FOID ID, they were okay with Rauner sweeping the funds because they wanted the program to have issues and suffer problems, including delays, in order to use it as an excuse to demand that the FOID program be suspended or to utilize the intentionally sabotaged program as a basis for a court challenge to the law requiring the FOID.==
If we’re just going to throw out crazy conspiracy theories worthy of a Trump legal argument, then I’ll counter that maybe Pritzker and Kelly are intentionally slowing down the processing to bolster their ask for increased fees, that’s really been their only concrete proposal since taking office.
Comment by fs Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:26 pm
@CandyDogood Preach. This problem started when the GA per the gun lobby’s prompting made the ill-advised move to pass a law that charged FOID card applicants just $10 for a 10-year license. Imagine being able to run a problem that oversees millions of gun owners with that type of financial support?
Comment by Truth Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:27 pm
Have a FOID, valid until 2026. Moved in July, still waiting on an address change. Extremely frustrating..
Comment by I H8 This place Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:37 pm
Even with the EO some FFLs won’t sell a firearm or ammo. Firearms are placed on a Federal Form, and no one really wants to take the chance a BATFe inspector will fine them for processing a purchase with an expired FOID. Can’t blame them for that. No one thinks the State will support them if it happens.
Fund sweeps and antiquated equipment is the fault of the State Government, no the citizens. These are excuses, something they won’t accept from anyone who runs afoul of the law.
Renewals should be done quickly. FOID holders are run thru the database daily, if the card is not shown to be revoked, renewal should be automatic.
I applied for my FOID and CCL renewals as soon as the window opened to do so. Seven months later I am still under review. My payment was collected and the State has it.
Comment by FormerParatrooper Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 3:50 pm
I applied and had check cashed for CCL on Jan 15th 2020. Still Nothing. Website says in process.
Comment by Cermak Dr. Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:00 pm
IMO a legal scam. Something seriously wrong when your FOID and CCL have the same registration number.
Comment by lowdrag Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:14 pm
This is why the ISRA filed suit over ISP and the State’s continued fumbling of firearms restrictions in Illinois. 121 days is a right DENIED. There is also a case still making its way back to the IL Supreme Court as to the Constitutionality of the FOID card law for an order to be properly entered by a lower court judge so appeals can move forward. Time to stop treating gun rights as optional in Illinois. At least ISP dares to place some blame where it belongs, on the legislation which created such convoluted guns laws in the first place.
Comment by thisjustinagain Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:18 pm
The BIO bill would fix many of these problems. It gave additional funding to ISP in order to process the FOID requests in a timely manner. But not 1 republican was willing to support that. BIO was put together in direct response to the Henry Pratt Shooting. Federal check and no mechanism in place for dealing with revolted FOIDs does not work.
Comment by dupage dem Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:20 pm
I applied for mine this summer after having let it lapse for 25 years. Got it in three months.
Comment by up2now Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:29 pm
“Fund sweeps and antiquated equipment is the fault of the State Government, no the citizens.”
Respectfully, wrong. Legislators enable fund sweepers (Filan, Quinn, Rauner) by taking the easy way out and voting for fund sweeps instead of voting to raise taxes / cut services or close facilities. Voters enable such legislators by equating “fund sweeps” with as part of the crusade against “waste, fraud, and abuse.” Read Blago’s first few budget addresses, which were written by Filan - they equate “special funds” with thievery from the General Fund.
Comment by Anyone Remember Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:31 pm
Here is a thought, get the 75 to 80 ISP Troopers and supervisors (mostly), most of whom are doing absolutely nothing from home at the Illinois Gaming Board and put them back in their own organization for FOID.
Comment by Clueless In Illinois Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:45 pm
===The phony Raunerites never miss a chance to forget the damage they and Rauner did===
Rep. Marron wasn’t even in the GA when Rauner was Governor. By all accounts he is NOT an Eastern Bloc Neanderthal.
That the current system is badly broken and ineffective really isn’t in dispute.
Comment by This Just In Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:50 pm
=== Rep. Marron===
… now the others…
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:55 pm
@- essentially working - Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 2:18 pm:
===Hopefully they can make a dent in this like they did the DNA backlog.===
A dent? ISP is still backlogged 6 months or more on murder DNA cases. DuPage county’s lab showed that DNA can be processed in about 2 days. This indicates ISP needs a large increase in funding to get and keep the DNA testing current. When someone gets murdered police often find DNA. While waiting months for ISP to process the DNA, the criminal can murder again and again. Not good enough.
Comment by DuPage Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 5:07 pm
Add the Concealed Carry permit renewal to this. I’ve been waiting on mine since February.
Comment by Fivegreenleaves Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 5:11 pm
The shooters in Chicago don’t worry about background checks. The have never applied for a FOID card and never will. The FOID scheme, infringing on the right to keep and bear arms by lawful individuals, ought to be abolished.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 5:40 pm
Anyone Remember, I can agree with your assessment. Imagine if voters actually voted for candidates over Parties, read the ballot initiatives and voted in the common interest of all instead of the few.
Comment by FormerParatrooper Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 5:45 pm
The truth is that JB doesn’t want citizens to have the FOID and CCL license. This isn’t rocket science
Comment by Law Man Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 7:00 pm
Rights delayed are rights denied. We should also not have to pay a tax to exercise them. Foid is little different than a poll tax. We should not have to pay or wait to exercise our constitutional rights.
Comment by Captain Obvious Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 7:46 pm
=== Foid is little different than a poll tax===
You favor a poll tax? What does this mean?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 7:53 pm
Here’s my angst. The FOID process accomplishes nothing.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 8:34 pm
Comparing FOID to voting is ridiculous.
The ability to purchase a firearm is required to own a firearm. People don’t line up to receive their free gun every two years so they can choose a representative government.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 9:02 pm
I have another issue. I signed myself into rehab for alcohol counseling and now I can’t get a FOID since I voluntarily signed up for help.
Like, really? The legislature needs to change that. I signed up of my own volition, now it’s being held against me. Ridiculous
Comment by low level Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 9:32 pm
LowLevel. And yet a self proclaimed drug addict from another state can waltz into Illinois with a firearm and there is no law against it.
Comment by Blue Dog Dem Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 9:35 pm
== Comparing FOID to voting is ridiculous.==
Maybe to you, but both are rights expressly guaranteed by the Constitution. So it’s absolutely not ridiculous to compare any restrictions on the two. Courts do it quite often, in fact.
== The ability to purchase a firearm is required to own a firearm.==
Say what? You’ve never heard of a gift, loan, or inheritance? Transfers don’t require that a purchase be involved. Mere possession of a firearm is all that requires a foid.
Many people own firearms they never purchased.
Comment by fs Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 10:07 pm
=== So it’s absolutely not ridiculous to compare any restrictions on the two.===
lol… this is … whew.
One is literally taking away one’s voting franchise… the other is a regulation not denying any way to own a firearm.
I mean… the racist way others have used Jim Crow laws is the same as FOId issues… that’s what you’re going with?
===Many people own firearms they never purchased.===
Yep. While it’s troublesome these waits and the process… the comparison to a poll tax… that’s victimhood taken to a ridiculous level of “same”
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 10:19 pm
Mike Madigan will be elected as House Speaker again.
Comment by Mark my words Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 11:10 pm
well its nice to se the Karens are alive and well.
OW you and the others who think the delaying of the right are wrong. There is no other right that we would allow this for. Not waitingon a traffic stop for hour for them to get a dog for a search, not anything.
There are three issues at hand, one is the new people who can’t get a FOID card therefor they can’t buy their first firearm or someone can’t legally loan them one.
those delays are taking months, apply that to any other right and you wouldn’t stand for it.
Next are the change of addresses and the renewals that are taking months. Some dealers won’t accept the expired cards some will. ATF has told us to use the DL if the FOID is expired on the 4473. And to prove how worthless the FOID is, the State Police magically out of think air made up the rule that extends the FOID or CHL 180 days after the EOs on the pandemic end. If they worked so well and we so important, that wouldn’t happen.
The FOID was a creation of Chicago legislators 50 years ago. we are one of 4 state to have such a BS program. and the bill last year to add fees and fingerprints is just another attempt to make it harder to exercise that fundamental right.
If the state wants the program, then it is up to the state to pay for and fund it not gun owners. But please keep piling on so we can go back to court and have this ruled unconstitutional and further tie the hands of the GA on what they are going to be able to do going forward.
Comment by Todd Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 6:29 am
- Todd -
With great respect, and you know I mean that…
That’s not what I said.
Comparing… comparing this to a poll tax is unequivocal.
That’s the only argument I made, it’s not that I accept the delay freely or easily, the difference is an election is a finite deadlined event, once passed, that idea of participation is lost.
There is no such finite deadline to the process, meaning, an Election Day passed is a denial “in complete”, and this delay, while “incomplete” to process, there’s no loss of the franchise to the action, which is an election.
That in no way means I find an acceptable situation.
Hope you’re well.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 6:46 am
- Clueless In Illinois - Wednesday, Dec 9, 20 @ 4:45 pm:
Here is a thought, get the 75 to 80 ISP Troopers and supervisors (mostly), most of whom are doing absolutely nothing from home at the Illinois Gaming Board and put them back in their own organization for FOID.
Clueless in Illinois. Brilliant idea! Dismantle the police force that oversees gambling in the state after our governor just doubled it’s size. You’re going places. Any ideas on how to solve the pension crisis or national debt?? Your brilliance is being wasted at whatever it is you do for a living.
Comment by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 7:01 am
it is a poll tax from the point that you must pay the government or you don’t get the chance to participate. And now willis and others in the gun control ilk want to up the fees and red tape to exercise that right. How is demanding all those fees not a poll tax?
how is it any different from the literacy tests they use to impose in the south to keep blacks from voting?
We’ve gone from no taxpayer funds for abortion to where it is deemed necessary for women’s healthcare.
Do you think Cosgrove and company would stand for 10 day wait before a women could exercise her choice?
would they stand for being fingerprinted for any of their rights? or the preapproval by a governmental bureaucracy?
Comment by Todd Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 8:37 am
=== it is a poll tax from the point that you must pay the government or you don’t get the chance to participate. And now willis and others in the gun control ilk want to up the fees and red tape to exercise that right. How is demanding all those fees not a poll tax?===
Again, elections and a poll tax towards a finite date of participation and then missing that opportunity versus the idea that there are hurdles do not deny the finite implementation of the right (voting during a specific window) is different.
It’s not like if you pay the poll tax today you now get to have a valid vote that will count in this *past November*.
Your other points, as we’ve discussed, those are outside a poll tax comparison too as a birth is a finite moment.
My hope in this situation is the state can get back on track to get expediency, clarity, and completion well within a reasonable time frame or a rational way that safety is considered within thoughtful parameters as well.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 8:51 am
OW — If you want to keep the definition of a poll tax to that of the immediate issue of a vote, I understand it, but disagree with the notion. especially since elections and voting now take place over a month and not just a single day.
So apply it to the modern early voting, vote by mail etc. We have gone out of our way, short of internet voting to make it as easy as possible. But now anti-gunners keep placing impediments to people trying to exercise that right to own and possess a firearm. Its no different than the jim crow laws of the south.
And if those delays result in a first time person who has a restraining order and wants the gun for protection gets murdered during the wait its acceptable collateral damage
Comment by Todd Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 10:16 am
=== If you want to keep the definition of a poll tax to that of the immediate issue of a vote, I understand it===
Yep.
You have the last. Be well. Stay safe, bud, you and yours.
OW
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Dec 10, 20 @ 10:20 am