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* Ozzie Guillen disses Cub Park…

“I think God is punishing me to have a rain delay in this [place],” Guillen cracked.

This week, Guillen made headlines when he said the Cubs’ 95-year-old stadium made him want to puke. He held firm to his opinion Tuesday as rain fell on the field and in parts of the dugout.

“We don’t have a clubhouse; we have a closet upstairs,” Guillen said. “If somebody has to use the bathroom during the game, we’ve got to take a taxi all the way out there. If we want to hit, we’ve got to go to the rats [below the right-field bleachers].

* The Question: Should the rat-infested, decrepit North Side minor league stadium be demolished? Explain.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:10 am

Comments

Not until they play at least an NLCS game in it that involves the Cubs

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:11 am
Maybe not demolished but rehabbed into a nice mix use sec 8, affordable, and market rate housing mix.

Comment by FED UP Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:12 am
When the fans stop coming, sure. Based on the difficulty in getting tickets to even weekday day games against who cares opponents, then no. As a Cubs fan, do we really care what opposing managers think?

Comment by Downstate weed chewing hick Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:14 am
I think they should threaten to move to Rolling Meadows

Comment by Reddbyrd Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:14 am
I was listening to the radio a few days ago. A long-time radio guy talked about Wrigley. He described Wrigley as an awful place to go if you are a visiting team. He contrasted it with Fenway Park, which still has the old charm, but also the facilities are properly maintained and improved.

Comment by Heartless Libertarian Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:15 am
No.

It’s a beautiful place to see a ballgame. The Ivy, the scoreboard, the sailboats bobbing on the Lake. Great places to drink and eat. It’s what all the new ballparks aspire to be — real, rather than a round bowl in a sea of parking lots.

Babe Ruth played there. There’s only one other place you can say that now.

Plus, as all men know, they employ an ingenuously efficient and green trough system.

The players can count their money and pound sand.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:15 am
Every word from Ozzy’s mouth should be treated as a pearl of great wisdom by every Cub’s fan, after all he has coached a team that won the world series.

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:16 am
I have two ideas…one of them would be to take it apart, brick by brick and put it back together again only better (like they did with the Old State Capitol bldg in Springfield) or else plop a spaceship in the middle of it like they did with Soldier Field. That said, I cringe at having 1/2 billion dollars of anybody’s money spent on a stadium anywhere for anybody for any reason.

Comment by What planet is he from again? Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:16 am
this is the difference between cub fans, and baseball fans. a baseball fan wants the best possible place to help generate revenues, attract players, and advance the ultimate goal of winning a world series…cub fans want wrigley field because of its history and place in the game…if they can build a new place for the Yankees (i’m a member of cardinal nation, but even i understand the yankess are the most successful team in sports history), then they can get rid of that terrible place the cubs play

Comment by Downstate GOP Faithless Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:17 am
What a whinny little prima donna. Does he want curtains and lace for his locker as well? Time to man up and play a game.

The new owners of the Cubbies should be able to do anything they want to their stadium.

Without taxpayer money…..

Comment by Plutocrat03 Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:18 am
No. Why? Eddie sums it up best:

“There’s magic in the ivy and the old scoreboard
The same one I stared at as a kid keeping score
In a world full of greed, I could never want more
…
When Ernie Banks said “Let’s play two”
Did he mean 200 years?
In the same ball park
Our diamond, our jewel
The home of our joy and our tears
Keeping traditions and wishes made new
A place where our grandfathers, fathers they grew
A spiritual feeling if I ever knew
And if you ain’t been I am sorry for you”

Comment by Sewanee Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:22 am
Yes, the Cubs can go on the road and appease all their fans by playing in Joliet, Schaumburg, Kane County, and Peoria.

Hey what about that ballpark in Marion that was being built with state funds?

Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:24 am
i don’t know if it should be demolished, but it certainly isn’t a major league stadium. we should never expect a consistently competitive team from the cubs as long as they have to play in a third-world level baseball park…

Comment by bored now Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:24 am
Hey rich, I heard there is going to be a new promotion at Wrigley field… the Rich Miler Pinata Day!

Comment by fedup dem Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:25 am
Great discussion. It can’t be demolished. It’s a historical landmark. Shows how intelligent you Sox fans are.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:26 am
Until people quit going to Wrigley, the stadium will always be in disrepair and the team will always be a loser. As long as tickets are being sold and there’s meat in the seats, management - whoever it it is - has no incentive to make the stadium, or the team, a contender. Chicago baseball fans have decided that the “loveable loser” thing is part of their identity…so nothing will change until the place caves in or goes up in smoke.

Comment by Deep South Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:26 am
I’m not one to believe in hexes, so I think Crane Kenney was a total goof to hire a Greek Orthodox priest to splash holy water in the dugout last year during the playoffs, but I do ardently believe that Wrigley Field needs to be demolished. It is an absolute festering stinkhole of a stadium. The seats are atrocious. The sightlines are horrific, the scoreboard (charming, sure) is useless. The skyboxes are pathetic. The concourses are ridiculously narrow. The food is abominable. Even the ushers are worthless. The only great thing about Wrigley are the people who patronize it and the surrounding neighborhood bar and restaurant scene. I think they ought to blow it up and build another stadium on the North Side. I think the Finkl Steel site between Clybourn and the Chicago River, near Armitage would be perfect. All the Wrigley fans can cry foul, but that park is a baseball sewer and the Cubs will never, never improve until they are in a new park.

Worked for the White Sox!

Comment by chiatty Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:29 am
First of all, OneMan, see 1989 and 1984. Second, yes they should demolish that dung heap. And I consider myself a hard-core Cubs fan. Ambiance is overrated, the newer parks are just as nice to watch a game in, and one look at the new Yankee Stadium proves you can improve a classic stadium by maintaining the good parts of the old and adding the modern amenities.

Comment by Ted Kord Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:31 am
NO WAY, the new owners will need to invest in the stadium and do some major refurbishing ie: Fenway Park. I hope one of those “alleged” rats finds Ozzie “The Mouth” and bites him. I could care less if the White Sux even get a clubhouse.

Comment by Dan S, a Voter and Cubs Fan Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:34 am
Yes, tear it down!
How to do it. Tell Cubs fans…or the Wrigley field fans that the place is cursed and the only way for the Cubs to win the WS is to tear it down.

Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:36 am
Ozzy needs to stop whining. Wrigley is a classic ballpark. Notice many other teams are trying to make there homes like Wrigley. If you don’t want classic baseball than stay away form Wrigley.

Comment by Deeda Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:39 am
I think White Sox fans advocate this so the Cubs might have to play for a season or two at U.S. Cellular field while they are waiting for a new stadium. That way, the Cell might actually sell out a few times other than Crosstown Classic games.

Comment by James Rockford Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:40 am
we should never expect a consistently competitive team from the cubs as long as they have to play in a third-world level baseball park…

If stadiums won basebal championships rather than players, the Orioles would have 3 or 4 recent WS wins by now.

Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:40 am
– we should never expect a consistently competitive team from the cubs as long as they have to play in a third-world level baseball park…–

Bored Now, were you a member of the ‘69 Cubs?

Last I checked, it’s 60 feet 6 inches from the rubber to home plate, and 90 feet between the bases, at Wrigley and everywhere else.

The Twins won two Series at the Metrodome, which is a glorified 1-57 salt storage shack.

Over the years, the Cubs have lost for two reasons:

1. They were very bad.

2. They choked.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:40 am
Ozzie likes to tell it like it is. So what? He’s just like a South Sider. That’s makes Ozzie, a perfect fit for the South Side team.

They still sell out every home game within the first week, so leave Wrigley alone. When people don’t want to go to there anymore, or they can’t sell half the park out, then they need to look at other options.

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:41 am
I hate the white sox, but I’d take a gm like kenny who has an anxiety disorder and trades like a 6th grader owning his first fantasy team with an ozzie that has the maturity of a 3rd grader over a larry himes who did nothing for the cubs and a stiff manager who is down with going 78-84.

I’ve been to new veterans stadium and the new nationals park, there’s very little difference and frankly if you are going to a ballpark for the luxurious accomodations you probably aren’t a diehard.

Comment by shore Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:42 am
Oh hell yes they should demolish it. It’s a blight on what would otherwise be a beautiful neighborhood.

I mean, look, I get it. But I lived in Lakeview for roughly 6 months after my daughter was born, and I used to avoid walking past it because it’s such a dangerous looking building. There are rats, homeless people, the wild dogs. Not to mention, the decrepit old building that looked like it was going to collapse! That, and there’s that scary statue in front.

My daughter, who despite being only a few months old, managed to ask me once “Daddy, what happens in that scary building?”. And I told her: “Nothing good. Nothing good has every happened in there”.

In all honesty though, they should move the stadium closer to the real ‘true’ cubs fans. How about Iowa or Naperville or something. Think about it Cubs fans: maybe the 100 year long curse has something to do with the stadium. And, since they’re all really big fans of baseball (and don’t just go to sip 9 dollar old styles and chat on their cell phone) they can’t have that many good memories in that stadium.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:43 am
Ohhhh and don’t forget the smell of stale urine that emanates from that building! Ohhh god that’s terrible.

So glad to be out.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:44 am
=== Should the rat-infested, decrepit North Side minor league stadium be demolished? Explain. ===

No, DCFS should buy it.

We’ll need some place to house the 7,000 kids the General Assembly is booting out of foster care.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:45 am
Wumpus is right: Wrigley Field is the curse! The Cubs were great when they played at West Side Park. Three consecutive World Series appearances (1906, 07, 08) and the greatest season winning percentage ever (.763). The Cubs were the team to beat and no one could beat them!

In 1916 they moved into Wrigley Field and they’ve stunk it up ever since. Tear down Wrigley! Reverse the curse!

Comment by Ned Racnad Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:45 am
==Great discussion. It can’t be demolished. It’s a historical landmark. Shows how intelligent you Sox fans are. ==

Chicago closed an airport in the middle of the night and barges had to bee used to get the aircraft stuck there someplace else.

It being a ‘historical landmark’ isn’t going to stop Jack (see Solder Field)

Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:45 am
Wasn’t Blago trying to fix this problem, and didn’t we take him to task for it?

Comment by Johnny USA Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:46 am
By all means Rich, the Cubs should blackmail the state of Illinois and threaten to move to Addison and then St. Pete, tear down a working-class minority homeowner neighborhood, ignore emerging ballpark architecture trends, build a white elephant sustained by taxpayers and kill an 80-year old historic tavern with two decades of lies. Oh, wait, the Sox already did that.
As a Cub fan and an Illinois taxpayer aware that these things are never self-financed, no. Does Wrigley need serious work that may include rebuilding the grandstand? Yes. Should it be demolished and rebuilt at my expense? No.

Comment by Cub fan/IL taxpayer Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:47 am
Funny how Rich is more than willing to denounce the white hat politics of some and then engage in it when it suits his interests. And I’ll more than second what Cub fan/IL taxpayer said re: The Cell.

That said, the leading nature of the question doesn’t deserve an answer, even if the one I’d give would probably be amenable to Mr. Miller.

Comment by Randolph Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:56 am
Rich,

You, sir, are “the ultimate vulture” preying on the carcass of an historic, if unkempt, stadium by promoting such vitriol from an obvious partisan.

;)

Comment by Rob_N Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:58 am
===Funny how Rich is more than willing to denounce the white hat politics of some and then engage in it when it suits his interests.===

LOLOLOL. You made my day.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 11:59 am
“You made my day”

Want to know what makes my day every time a cross town series comes along? That despite their purportedly high class stadium and shiny world series ring, White Sox fans can’t seem to find happiness without hating on the Cubs. Like a whiny, redheaded younger sibling, Sox fans’ bitterness and inferiority complex is stifling.

Comment by Self Affirmed Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:10 pm
Wrigley Field is part of everything that is wrong with the Cubs, both figuratively (which I won’t get into) and in a very real sense. All those day games take much more of a toll on players than most teams that have far more night games.

It really is not that special of a ballpark (yes, despite my name I have been to the Hole) . It’s dingy, the facilities & food suck, and don’t get me started on the parking (to name a few). For the time it was built, it was an exceptional park. But that was also 95 years ago. But with the kind of revenue that the Cubs produce, they could build a new park that could be very classy and still retain features of the old park. If they move it out to the suburbs somewhere it would resolve tons of issues, and ultimately would end up being a winner for:

1. The fanbase- for convenience & improved amenities, fascilities, and parking(!?!). Cub fans seem to ignore the wonderful possibilities. For instance: tailgating, a beloved Chicago sporting tradition. I’ll take tailgating on a beautiful summer day and proper restrooms, over the profiteering bar scene & peeing into a trough any day.

2. For the players- for not having to play sardines in their own clubhouse anymore.

3. The ownership- the increased revenue that would ensue, as well as extricating themselves from the politics involved with the locals in Wrigleyville.

I was thrilled to death when they tore down Old Comiskey. It was rotten, though there is obvious nostalgia still to be had. I don’t miss urinating into a trough, however, nor do I miss the accumulated smells of 80 years of filth. Also, being able to park the car without paying the club, rather than paying street tax is a bit more re-assuring.

Comment by Baines 4 Prez Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:12 pm
if i were a player, i would want better working conditions than can be had at Wrigley. Ozzie’s explanation included a descripition of the ramp where Contreras worked out and it did not sound like a major league place to do that. as a White Sox fan I could care less about the conditions in which the Cubs work. But when the White Sox visit, and Ozzie complains, that is what he is talking about, working conditions. we listen to that from other union members, this is the same kind of discussion. it’s just harder to hear since Cub fans are enthralled with that rain soaked box they call a place to play. the only thing that keeps them from more rainouts is the recent work from the Sodfather, yes, the groundskeeper of the Sox, Roger Bossard.

Comment by Amy Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:14 pm
“Should the rat-infested, decrepit North Side minor league stadium be demolished?”

“Demolished” is too negative. I think the word you’re looking for is “euthanized.”

Comment by MrJM Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:16 pm
=== White Sox fans can’t seem to find happiness without hating on the Cubs.===

That’s the greatest delusion of all by Cub fans. It’s done, likely, to convince themselves that they’re the center of the universe.

In reality, Cub hating is just a fun little dessert. You make it too easy.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:16 pm
Yes, tear it down. Build a new park in Chicago and retain some of WF’s better features. This time have a scoreboard that can list all the out-of-town games, lights that don’t cast shadows, a batting cage that benefits the players, more seats, etc. It’s a good park but it can be improved.

Comment by Adolfo Phillips Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:17 pm
Self Affirmed, oh Pa leeze stop

Ever go to a Sox game. They are the best basefall fans in town. Tailgate with them, take the El or bus with them before and after a game. See how whole families are together at the ball park. They added a new children’s section at “The Cell” if you don’t believe me.

Cubs fans are transplants. Anyone who relocates to Chicago, goes to the North Side, and Wrigleyville is a trendy, yet affordable area. Then they become Cubs fans, because that is also trendy. When they marry and have kids they relocate to, some place like Naperville.

Sox fans are born and raised Sox fans. If you dare take a Sox game in you will see that.

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:17 pm
- Anonymous
“Shows how intelligent you Sox fans are.”
Yes we know we are intelligent — we are Sox, not Cubs fans.

Comment by 23rd Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:23 pm
—–
White Sox fans can’t seem to find happiness without hating on the Cubs.
—–

It’s not so much the Cubs. Really. It isn’t. It’s the plurality of Cubs fans that I find totally obnoxious.

Speaking of Cubs fans, I heard a rumor today that something happened with some old Cubs hero about cork and performance enhancing drugs, can somebody fill me in?

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:25 pm
Hey Self Affirmed, Congrats on 101 years of Futility keep it up, What Inferiority Complex, Get overself, your self righteous is hilarious though…..

Comment by I'm Just Saying Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:27 pm
—-
Cubs fans are transplants. Anyone who relocates to Chicago, goes to the North Side, and Wrigleyville is a trendy, yet affordable area. Then they become Cubs fans, because that is also trendy. When they marry and have kids they relocate to, some place like Naperville.
—–

Third Gen hit the nail right on the head. Cubs fans aren’t really Chicagoans. So many of them are from places other than Chicago. Oh sure, they all have some cliche story about how their great great grandfather took them to their first cubs game at Wrigley, but we all know it’s hogwash.

I can’t wait till the Cubs go out of style again.

Speaking of cubs fans:
How’s Mike North doing?

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:28 pm
dan l

Sammy Sosa is the old Cub hero who had tested postive some years ago, 2003 and it was just dug up.

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:29 pm
Really? So he took HGH and used cork at the same time?

Wow.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:33 pm
Yeah, who knows what else he may have done to cheat. Typical Cubs.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:34 pm
There’s nothing wrong with Wrigley. It’s a terrific place to watch a game. Enough players sign with the Cubs every year to suggest that most of the ballplayers can (and do) deal with its oddities and perceived shortcomings.

I’d rather see Ozzie demolished.

Comment by Mr. Know-it-All Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:36 pm
–Yeah, who knows what else he may have done to cheat. Typical Cubs.–

Say it ain’t so, Rich. Have you forgotten the 1919 American League Pennant Winners? They had a funky nickname I can’t recall now….

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:37 pm
—-Chicago closed an airport in the middle of the night and barges had to bee used to get the aircraft stuck there someplace else.

It being a ‘historical landmark’ isn’t going to stop Jack (see Solder Field)—

Oneman - last time I checked they never “demolished” Soldier Field moron.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:39 pm
I love how people like Rich and fans of teams like the White Sox get all empowered after winning their one World Series in an almost 90 year span.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:42 pm
tear it down.

Build it and they will come.

Put up a nice stadium like coors field.

Comment by Ghost Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:43 pm
Rich,

This is incredibly off topic. I know your focus is state politics, but something potentially interesting happened in congress last night. Mark Kirk was one of only five Republicans to vote for the supplemental bill in the House. He was also the only Illinois Republican. Do you have any insight why he might have done this? Thanks.

Comment by Off topic Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:43 pm
It’s a good stadium, wow, Dont’ worry about the falling concrete and urine filled floors in the head, it’s beautiful……….

and if you think Milton Bradley was your marquis signing, youv’e got another thought coming….

The place is a dump

Comment by I'm Just Saying Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:45 pm
Mr. Know-it-all: Ozzie Guillen, World Series Winner, with the Sox, and….wait for it….the Marlins! No wonder you are so cranky.

Comment by Amy Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:45 pm
…Didn’t Buerhle allude to Cubs pitchers often cheating before? To please their fans that don’t even watch the game? I’m telling you — ticket price is wayyy too high of a cover for that Wrigley Field Bar place.

Comment by I wish I were Mrs. Guillen Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:53 pm
Yep, tear it down. I’ve never been inside but I’ve walked by it and it stinks up the whole neighborhood. Don’t they have indoor plumbing in there?

Comment by Bill Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 12:55 pm
I’m not sure Bill if you’d consider a horse trough indoor plumbing,

Comment by I'm Just Saying Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:01 pm
I was there (Wrigley) a few years back to see the White Sox, and women can plan on spending quite a bit of time in line for the ladies room, at least 20 minutes if you are lucky the lines aren’t too bad. It was definately built when not too many women attended games. I am not surprised there are plumbing problems. I remember the ladies rooms were filthy, but really how could they keep them clean when the lines were so long? The crowd was not what you would call family friendly, a lot of young people either in college or right out of that were looking to carry on the frat party.

They had pieces of the upper deck at Wrigley falling off in chunks of concrete, a few years back, then they had nets or fencing up for a while until repairs could be made in the off season.

Even Comiskey park, before it was tore down looked was much newer and was more accomidating to fans than Wrigley ever was. You could move around better. Now “the Cell” is very nice, plenty of room to move around, never a wait for the ladies, and very clean. A few years after the Cell was built they took out 7 or 8 rows of the nose bleed seats to add a covered top, which is nice for the fans when it drizzles or rains.

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:11 pm
At the top of the second, Sox lead by a score of 1 to 0.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:36 pm
So Ozzie wants his millions and have a nice new place to work. Nah - he isn’t spoiled, is he?

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:37 pm
If Thompson hadn’t given the Sox a tax payer paid Ballpark, they would be in the same situation!!

I am a lifelong Cub fan, I love Wrigley, but it is time to get another ballpark. Bulldoze it.

Comment by He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:40 pm
Cubs fans deserve better than Wrigley Field, a building with history but which is in disarray. Some things are classic, and some things are just old. Although, I will admit that the rooftops are pretty cool. . .
Maybe they can convert one of the 2016 Olympic structures into a more modern baseball stadium. They really should add some youthfulness to the security and seating staff as well. Just sayin’.
Go (Red)Sox Go

Comment by Jake from Elwood Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:40 pm
Glad I could help, Rich.

To the question, I think it was posited last year and I’ll simply reiterate my response. Keep the brick, ivy, scoreboard, marquee and facade. Tear down everything in between and rebuild. Cannibalize the players’ parking lot and the other parking on Clark and move the Clark-side facade all the way to Clark. Close Addison next to the park and pull that side into the street as well. Close Sheffield and Waveland for expansion purposes as well and then rebuild everything between the brick and the outer walls. Done.

I’d also welcome the Finkl site mentioned earlier - it’s close to the Kennedy, a reasonable walk from the red line and would turn my 20 minute bike ride into a 10 minute walk.

As for Sammy cheating, I’d say two things - if you think all White Sox players during the steroid era were clean, you’re fooling yourself and showing your foolishness to the world by slamming a player most Cubs fans don’t really care for.

Second, the Cubs have never thrown a World Series. Granted, they haven’t had many chances, but they still haven’t done it.

Comment by Randolph Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:42 pm
So either Ozzie is truly bothered by the visitor’s accomodations at Wrigley, or he’s just being a blathering windbag again. Either way, it’s all good by me. Leave it alone.

Comment by BigDog Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:45 pm
At this point of my life the only sport I’m interested in involves Cialis and a hooker…..damn you to hell Tom Dart!

That being said I live nearish Wrigley in Uptown and it is a dump. It was a dump 40 years ago when Brickhouse was singing “hey hey holy mackerel no doubt about it the Cubs are on their way”.

There really is a need for a new ballyard. Comiskey, and that is the proper name for the ballyard on 35th, is a much superior park.

As for Sox fans hatred of the Cubs Rich Miller is wrong. It is part of the DNA of south side fans. It is not just dessert. It is like breathing. In the DNA of a “twue” Sox fans hating the Cubs and all things “cubbie” is as important or more important than loving “da sox”.

It all goes back to the Sox being the team of the Catholic Charles Comiskey and the Cubs being owned by the Protestant Wrigley. There once was a time when that silliness mattered to people.

Throw in perceived working class v yuppie resentments and it all gets silly, silly, silly as Chicago’s leading Sox fan and Uncle to Robert Vanecko might say.

In the stereotypical viewpoint of many Sox fans the North Side ain’t REAL neighborhoods. Whereas Lockport,Alsip,New Lenox or NW Indiana “is real”. Dare I say it even perhaps Kankakee?

I was at the rain delayed game last week Sox v Detroit and the entire Sox attitude could be summed up by a portion of a conservation I overheard “……and the ringbearer wore a Sox jersey”.

Comment by Irishpirate Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:45 pm
The players clubhouses really are dumps. But who cares? it’s a great place to see a ballgame.

Also, let’s not hear any talk about public subsidy for any improvements. They draw $3 million a year, and are making a larger fortune to boot in the ticket-aftermarket. $7 beer. $5 hot dogs.

The Cubs are making money. Let them be good capitalists.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:49 pm
FYI-

Maybe you don’t want to believe Canseco, but just about everyone he’s fingered has proved correct. And he was with the White Sox…

Jose Canseco’s second book hits shelves next week, but copies are getting around already. In this tell-some sequel, Canseco says he hooked Alex Rodriguez up with a ‘roid-distributing trainer (and that Rodriguez hit on his wife), that he thinks Roger Clemens may be on steroids, and that he personally injected then-White Sox Magglio Ordoñez with performance enhancing drugs.

I met Maggs (Magglio Ordonez) in 2001, when I was with the White Sox. … When it was all said and done, when Maggs had the information he needed, he told me he was in. A few days later, we went into the back room in the clubhouse, and I jabbed a needle into his butt. ‘Ow,’ he said. ‘That hurt.’ ‘You’ll get used to it,’ I said.
In January, the NYT said that Canseco had asked Ordoñez for $5 million to keep his name out of the book and to bankroll a film. Ordoñez didn’t press charges, and Canseco denies that this happened. Vindicated: Big Names, Big Liars, and The Battle to Save Baseball is due out April 1, but…everyone already knows the juicy parts. [Daily News, NYT]

Also this from 2005…

Three White Sox in minor league system suspended for steroid use.
Chicago Tribune (Chicago, IL) | May 12, 2005 |

Byline: Mark Gonzales

CHICAGO _ Infielder Robert Valido and two other White Sox prospects were among 11 minor-league players suspended 15 games, starting Thursday, after testing positive for performance-enhancing substances.

Valido, who turns 20 Sunday, was batting .313 in 31 games for Class-A Winston Salem. He played in four spring training games with the Sox and went hitless in two at-bats.

The other Sox suspended were Triple-A Charlotte first baseman Jorge Toca and Double-A Birmingham pitcher Tetsu Yofu, who was released earlier this week.

“It’s a shame …

Comment by Randolph Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 1:59 pm
Maggs is Detroit’s problem

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:01 pm
I’m one of the rare Cubs fans who doesn’t romanticize Wrigley. It is a dump and has outlived its useful life for more than 20 years.

If I had access to the State’s checkbook or the Mayor’s TIF funds, here’s what I’d do:

Preserve the field itself and the interior brick walls surrounding it. Preserve the marquis in front, and the manual scoreboard. Everything else gets bulldozed and replaced with modern concourses, bathrooms, etc. Move the Cubs management offices out. Use the Yum Yum donuts site and connect to Wrigley.

I would not add parking. I would purchase the Horseshoe billboard building (formerly the Budweiser bldg.) and install a jumbo-tron there, outside the park but more than visible for replays (except for the bleachers, but who cares about those yahoos and their mosh pit — right and left field both suck equally btw).

It’d probably cost half a billion, but the good news is that construction can start October 1st and the Cubs can play in Milwaukee and/or U.S. Cell-Out Field during the 18 months or so it would take to complete.

I could write a much longer essay about the mistakes that were made with new Comiskey, but that’s for another day. Having said that, by nearly every measure, it is a vastly superior experience on the south side. Except for the lack of charm and absence of real baseball.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:02 pm
Irish Pirate was all about:
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In the stereotypical viewpoint of many Sox fans the North Side ain’t REAL neighborhoods. Whereas Lockport,Alsip,New Lenox or NW Indiana “is real”. Dare I say it even perhaps Kankakee?
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See folks, not only do cubs fans typically not know anything about baseball, but they also couldn’t find city limits when they have google maps right in front of them.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:10 pm
IrishPirate couldn’t be more on target. The fact that nearly all of Chicago’s Puerto Rican diaspora are Cub fans–go to the parade this weekend if you don’t believe me–wouldn’t register to the clannish mopes who live in Mt. Greenwood and beyond and rarely venture north of 87th Street.

And DanL, I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure IrishPirate’s point was that Sox fans see south suburban exurban Chicago as more “real Chicago” than, say, Mayfair or Norwood Park.

Comment by Cub fan/IL taxpayer Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:34 pm
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#

And DanL, I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure IrishPirate’s point was that Sox fans see south suburban exurban Chicago as more “real Chicago” than, say, Mayfair or Norwood Park.
—-

Oh? Ok. That’s pretty untrue too.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:41 pm
jeez, Randolph, angry about Steroid Sammy much? two words to answer that the Sox are not steroid land….Frank Thomas.
somebody pull that MVP that steroid boy got and give it to the guy who finished second, the deserving one, the real deal, Frank Thomas.

Comment by Amy Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:43 pm
Allow the outfield walls , bleachers etc.. to stay. Knock down everything from left field corner to rightfield corner, anything essentially in foul territory. Put new sructure completely around home plate. Scoreboard is pretty classic, see how it looks later.

Comment by casual observer Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:46 pm
I was at the new Busch Stadium in St. Louis last night. Sold out game against the Tigers…but despite the crown I didn’t have to wait in one line, concessions, rest room, parking coming in or going out, etc. A very pleasant experience in a really cool new ballpark. Why wouldn’t Cub fans want something like that? I don’t get it.

Comment by Deep South Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:52 pm
The only reason to go north of 87th St when you’re from Mt. Greasewood is to go to a Sox game or, back in my day, Ford City. And Rainbow Beach. That about covers it.

Wrigley Field is a hole. The only park it could be compared to is the old Milwaukee County Stadium, which was constructed of corrugated steel sheeting and chain-link fence. And that was mercifully torn down 8 years ago.

Comment by Lefty Lefty Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:56 pm
Dan L,

I’m not a Cubs fan. I was born in Englewood at St. Bernards Hospital. Last time I checked that is a few miles south of Comiskey.

One of my points is that Sox Fans consider themselves more “real” Chicagoans or baseball fans than those who bleed Cubbie blue. It doesn’t matter if they live in the 815 or 219 area codes. Hell they could live in that godforsakencorrupthellhole known as Kankakee and still consider themselves more “real”.

I find it all rather silly.

There are some things which are undeniably true.

1. Wrigley is a dump.

2. The ‘average’ Sox fan spends as much time and energy proclaiming their “hatred” for the Cubs as their love for “da Sox”.

3. The ‘average’ Cubs fan has only heard rumors that another baseball team plays in town and could really care little about whether the Sox win or lose as there is beer to drink and women to ogle.

4. During a White Sox game “sout side” fans will obsessively check the score of any simultaneously played Cubs game hoping that the Cubs lose and the Sox win………in that order.

Comment by Irishpirate Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:56 pm
I root for 2 teams, The Chicago Cubs and anyone who plays the deadbirds except the white sux.

Comment by Dan S, a Voter and Cubs Fan Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 2:57 pm
Irish:

Well, it is more ‘real’ Chicago. You’re going to have to face facts sometime: Wrigleyville is the Wisconsin Dells of Chicago. It’s mostly a tourist area. Any thought to the contrary is just delusional.

And yes. I do enjoy watching the Cubs lose, mostly just to have lulz @ the expense of their fans. I even had a party to celebrate the century of fail.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:07 pm
No, keep that piece of crap hole in the ground! As long as it’s there and beer swilling fools pay to watch ball games, there will never be a world champion on the north side. WATCH OUT! FALLING CONCRETE!

Comment by 10X Champs Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:08 pm
Sox fans shouldn’t worry about Sosa cheating. Weren’t there 8 White Sox who once took cash to throw the World Series?

Now we all know the Cubs aren’t capable of doing such things, having never had the opportunity!

But why tear down the old ballpark? For 100 years other teams that have played in worse facilities with worse dugouts and locker rooms have won.

If it scares the White Sox fans so much, then don’t go there. If the White Sox want better locker rooms and facilities, then they just need to jump on the “L” and go to that taxpayer funded sterile palace they call home!

Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:09 pm
Dan L,

you just made my case.

As for Wrigleyville being Wisconsin Dells South…..perhaps. Although, calling it a “tourist” area is a bit much. Many of the “tourists” have moved in to the area from whatever Midwestern college town they graduated from.

It’s also nice that there are bars and restaurants right around Wrigley. At Comiskey one has to trudge 1/2 a mile or more west through the bitterness and class angst of Bridgeport to find a beer outside the park.

Yet unlike the superior ball park to the south Wrigley is almost always sold out. South siders take a “preverse” pride in their half empty ballyard.

Perhaps if a viable commercial district grew up around Comiskeyville you might see some more seats sold. Of course that might mean some “outsiders” came in with their filthy ideas and money and we couldn’t allow that could we?

Given the choice of another Sox World Series Victory or the chance to destroy Wrigley Field with sledgehammers and nitro glycerine I think the “average” Sox fan would be hell bent on destruction.

It’s truly a sickness. Perhaps it should be diagnosed as a psychological disorder. Call it “Cub hatred syndrome.”

Although Blago is a rabid Cubs fan which is good for “da Sox”.

Comment by Irishpirate Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:21 pm
First, Dan 1 has yet to make any sense at all and though he says he lived there for 6 months, pretty sure he’s living in Antioch or something now. Wrigleyville is more than Clark and Addison.

Now, to the question. If the Rickets fam is down, and I have heard rumblings, they should do a major, major overhaul. The kind requiring the team to split a season of home games between U.S. Commiskular and Miller Park. As a fan who wants to preserve while joining the 21st century it is the only option and really not that bad of one.

Comment by U.S. Open Phil Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:31 pm
If you’re not a Cubs fan, what’s with the sox fan hate?

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Many of the “tourists” have moved in to the area from whatever Midwestern college town they graduated from.
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Point. Set. Match. Get back to the burbs, poser.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:37 pm
Since I never answered the original question I think the real quandary is whether you can tear down the grandstand and rebuild on the existing footprint. The problem is that while there is plenty of room west of the park to Clark Street, the south side of the park hugs Addison. It will take a creative architect a la the folks who did Soldier Field.

The only part of the facade that needs saving is the marquee; I’ll be as happy as anyone to say goodbye to the “historic” chain link fence, stucco and plywood combo that comprise most of the exterior.

I assume the field itself and the bleachers will remain unchanged, as they have both been recently rebuilt from scratch.

Comment by Cub fan/IL taxpayer Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:37 pm
Dan l

Tourist area, Wrigleyville, LOL!

Yes, tourist and transplant is what sums up the neighborhood.

Irish Pirate,
IIT campus (nice campus) just east of Comiskeyville as you call it, is not where there are wall to wall bars. Most college campuses are academic buildings and dorms, there is no exception here. By the way IIT is world reknown academic institution.

There are plenty of neigborhood bars, but Sox fans come to the game not to stick around and do the bar scene. Most Sox fans come from blue collar workers, go to the game, enjoy the game, go home.

Wrigley field and Wrigleyville are one continious party zone, and the transplants that take up temporary residence there are not wanting the frat party to end so soon after college. This is how the Cubs keep getting new fans, imported from everywhere except from the Sox territories.

I was born and raised on the South side, and used to hear the North side attracts everyone from everywhere and it’s a wild place to live, all party, all fun, everyone wants to do the in thing etc. And the real down to earth people are here on the South Side. I have found out that’s true.

Sox fans are home grown fans that’s what makes us the way we are. And yes, you know you are dealing with a South Sider because we will tell it like it is, just like Ozzie. North siders will be offended because we don’t put up with any bulloney. (South side term)

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:49 pm
heh. Here it comes…….

IP will next tell us that we’re just bitter that the south side doesn’t have a low crime rate like his beautiful northside neighborhood.

Oh wait. That’s uptown.

PS 4-1 white sox, top of the 9th.

Comment by dan l Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 3:58 pm
Bulloney,

one of the newspapers just ran their yearly demographic comparison of Sox and Cubs fans.

In nearly every category Cubs and Sox fans aren’t all that different. Race, education, income, age etc. The real difference is Sox fans tend to be from the south or western burbs and Cubs fans tend to be from the north or western burbs with the added “import” effect.

Your comment:

“And the real down to earth people are here on the South Side. I have found out that’s true.”

I got news for you there are real people on the North side too. Proudly IGNORANT is what I would call SOME Sox fans. Clannish might be another term.

If you have to claim you are “down to earth” you are down to something.

Next time you go to a Sox game check out the stickers and license plates on the cars. Nary a Chicago vehicle sticker in sight.

This myth that Sox fans are somehow more “genuine” is bulloney. Except perhaps in the sense of Miller “Genuine” Draft.

Comment by Irishpirate Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:03 pm
Dan L,

Uptown does have a relatively low crime rate. Not low enough obviously.

Where do you live Danny anyway?

I think I know the answer, but when I come home from walking to a local diner I look forward to the chuckle.

You’ll be happy to know though that my favorite waitress is a Sox fan.

Get your nitro and hammers ready Sox fans…………..one day you may be allowed to tear down Wrigley. Just keep the ambulances ready to deal with the heart attacks caused by the joy and polish sausage combo.

Comment by Irishpirate Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:10 pm
Man alive, ya ask a politically-loaded question on this site and it generates nearly 100 comments in no time flat.

It’s like Blago got impeached all over again or something.

Comment by Rob_N Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:13 pm
Wait a MINUTE….Rich, You;re a SOX fan!!

Comment by You Go Boy Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:16 pm
I just hope Wrigley field is not torn down. I would shudder to think where games would be held in the interum, heaven forbid at “The Cell”.

IP

That article you refer to shows that the most college educated, most republicans, and people making the most money are Blackhawk fans.

Also note: More women are White Sox fans than any fan of any other Chicago team.

Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:19 pm
ah….. that’s managing a game!!!!! the Danks fake bunt and slap sacrifice was amazing, followed by Scotty Pods on a wicked good bunt. beautiful calls. way to go Ozzie.

Comment by Amy Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:25 pm
Sox Win! I was able to listen to the game on the radio. Had to keep my mouth shut because most of my coworkers are Cubs fans and we have recieved enough bad news today.

Turn Wrigley Field into a tourist trap, give the money to DCFS, The Educational System and DHS. Move the Cubs to Iowa or something.

Comment by 815Sox Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:33 pm
Also, nobody should be surprised that Sosa tested positive. I remember him being a skinny leadoff guy when he was playing for us.

Next thing I know he is massive and is cranking out homers… puhlease.

Comment by 815Sox Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:35 pm
Man alive, ya ask a politically-loaded question on this site and it generates nearly 100 comments in no time flat.

We’re used to mediocrity here in IL, and what better use of our time to harp on 2 mediocre baseball teams that appear to be going nowhere fast.

Bears training camp starts in 12 days, btw.

Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:35 pm
45 days. Wishful thinking.

Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 4:38 pm
Six Degrees - that’s what happens when you ask a political question on a sports blog. Oh well.

Who cares about these roid-fueled pros anyway? T-ball started last night! (Our boy brought his mitt to bed… warms your heart.)

Comment by Rob_N Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 5:46 pm
I say tear it down. The neighbors hate it anyway. The Cubs can move to Pontiac, we can close the prison, open Thomson Prison, and Chicago gets to retain our good baseball team. Talk about a win-win.

Comment by Big West Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 5:54 pm
I can’t think of a good analogy for the hatred some Sox fans feel toward the Cubs and all “tings” Cubbie.

Is a rabid Sox fans “soxuality” somehow threatened by the mere presence of the team to the north?

When true Sox fans are away from their wives do they hang out in airport bathrooms, truckstops, and GOP conventions looking for someone to don Cubbie Blue with and sing “Hey, Hey Holy Mackerel”?

Like I said I can’t think of a good analogy.

Comment by Irishpirate Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 6:21 pm
My heart bleeds for Ozzie and all of the baseball millionaire players and managers who are forced to rough it on the road a bit. They’re really suffering, I’m sure.

This is so not an issue. I’m with YDD: Back to discussion about DCFS.

Comment by ZC Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 6:28 pm
As a Cardinal fan I thought my dislike of the Cubs and Wrigley Field was passionate. But after reading the comments by Sox fans I don’t feel worthy to be in their presence. I bow to you.

Comment by ToughGuy Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 7:09 pm
I love watching you cubs and sox fans throw toys at one another in the sandbox. Its like watching children argue over whose dad can beat up who.

Join Cardinal nation, where we win championships, and play in new stadiums.

Comment by Speaking at Will Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 7:21 pm
“This is so not an issue. I’m with YDD: Back to discussion about DCFS. ”

I need a break from it. I’m worried about my clients and my job 24/7. A Sox win is some welcome relief.

Comment by 815Sox Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 7:56 pm
–I say tear it down. The neighbors hate it anyway.–

The neighbors wouldn’t be there without it.

Back in the Lee Elia days, when I was one of the 15% who didn’t have a job and showed up at the ballpark, the Cubby Bear was a 20-seat derelict saloon. Now, it’s a three-story cash cow charging 7 bucks a can. What’s the margin on that?

The Trib paid $23 million for the Cubs and Wrigley. For another $23 million they could have had the whole neighborhood.

What do you folks have against capitalism? Wrigley was the engine that transformed that neighborhood to one of he most wealthy in the state. Problem?

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 9:03 pm
Exactly right Wordslinger.

Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 9:34 pm
OK, here’s something slightly different.
As a Cubs fan I despise the Cardinals. But as a downstater if I’m planning on taking my family to a weekend at the ballpark, it’d be St. Louis. Easier access, fans who pay far more attention to the game, prices are only somewhat outrageous and I don’t have to worry about my kids getting peed on by drunken “fans” at the trough in the mens room.
I still remember my first Wrigley Cubs game as a young fan. What I remember most is two drunk guys getting in a fight on the way out. And Moreland playing a horrible left field.
Sorry, I’m a National Leaguer at heart. Been to the the pre-improved Cell once and it seemed nice.
Just offering something a bit different for the downstate diamond fans.

Comment by Frank Booth Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 10:31 pm
No Way! Demolish all of the wonderful memories of the Division championship series’, NLCS Championship series’, World Series championships that took place in that great old ball park!……Oh sorry. Didn’t realize you were talking about Wrigley…..let the wrecking ball fly. All less than mediocre things must come to an end some time.

Comment by Reformed Wednesday, Jun 17, 09 @ 10:41 pm
NO….get off it Rich…your biases are showing.

Comment by downhereforyears Thursday, Jun 18, 09 @ 8:17 am
Guillen, you big baby! Play ball!

But on the other hand it could help the cub mojo to start over.

Comment by anon Thursday, Jun 18, 09 @ 8:42 am