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* Sen. Dick Durbin has suggested that some suspected terrorist detainees at Guantanamo Bay be transferred to the federal prison in Marion to await trial or further disposition. Gov. Quinn responds…
QUINN: We’ll we’d have to look very carefully at that. I haven’t talked to either senator. You know, that’s a serious matter. I think we, uh, understand that the President is focused on that issue, as far as those prisoners there. I’d certainly want to have a lot more study of exactly what they’re talking about and where they’re talking about it.
Senator Durbin says guards at the federal prision in Marion think they can handle Guantanamo detainees. And the mayor of Marion says he can’t think of a better place to send the prisoners.
* The Question: Should Quinn give his consent? Explain.
Also, let’s not get into a debate over the wars here. Just stick to the question and only the question. Thanks.
posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:45 am
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Yes, because I’m not sure he has a choice. The placement of federal prisoners into federal prisons falls completely out of the purview of the Governor’s office unless I am missing something.
Comment by Obamarama Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:53 am
If done right, this would be an opportunity for the Governor to have a “commander-in-chief” moment and say that IL is up to this job of handling these high-profile detainees.
If we the public are too scared of these folks to see the merits of this approach, then that would be pretty sad to me…
At some point if we’re NIMBY everything, then we’re just chicken littles…
Comment by why be scared? Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:53 am
good point by Obamarama. Personally, the only place I’d want to see these prisoners if they are transferred is to the Supermax prison in Colorado.
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:54 am
No. The problem here is the legal status of these individuals, for starters. They are political pawns, and no one knows how they will be played. They are not Americans, nor are they similar to WWII POWs, in that they are not drafted citizens forced into battle. While we have a history of dealing with POWs in POW camps stationed in Illinois, the Guantanamo prisoners are too lethal to simply put into little camps - or simply put into a prison system not designed for this population.
If we say “yes”, we may very well rue that day if the major questions are not handled well. As long as politics, instead of law, is playing this dangerous game, we must exercise caution for our public safety.
No.
Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:58 am
I don’t think the citizens of Marion would be in any danger, but it’s easy to say since I don’t live anywhere near there.
And I agree–why would Quinn get to say? However, if he does, why not negotiate for something for Illinoisians. Help with the budget deficit. Stuff like that. Alas, the man can’t negotiate. It’s so much easier just to plump for a tax increase.
Comment by Cassandra Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:58 am
Quinn’s making himself look stupid X2 on this.
1. Prisons hold bad guys. There are plenty of bad guys being held now. The Gitmo detainees have no superpowers the current bad guys don’t have.
2. Quinn’s a lawyer by profession. What legal basis exists for state governors vetoing who can be held at a federal facility in the governor’s state?
Quinn has a bunch of stuff on his mind. He probably hasn’t been under this kind of stress in decades. But he should have the presence of mind to stay focused and not comment on stuff outside the current crisis.
Quinn should be an effective politician and stay on message.
Comment by Carl Nyberg Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:58 am
I second “WBS?”. Of course he should accept; what else are jails for? It’s not like anyone is suggesting they go to one of the “club fed” prisons that host Gov. Ryan and his ilk.
Comment by hv in hp Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 11:59 am
The place of detention doesn’t bother me. Marion is a federal Super Max not likely to be escaped from; I can’t remember a successful escape in recent times (there was a break in the mid-1970’s where 8 escaped but all were caught, IIRC).
I would be concerned about any future release of detainees on American soil.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:00 pm
I can imagine there is some pressure by Prez to ensure at least some terrorists are detained in Illinois, after all he is closing down Gitmo and must lead by example…in a very roundabout way. Marion has held some pretty bad actors, and in fact, as Illinois Times reporter Dusty Rhodes pointed out, the super max at Tammes(sp?) would be tougher than Gitmo to many peoples way of thinking. The max prisons could hold them - the question is if they are not in solitary confinement, could/would their powers of persuasion increase the threat - Prison is a ripe environment for festering/spreading a hateful and dangerous point of view.
Comment by You Go Boy Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:01 pm
I don’t think Quinn has any say on this issue. I don’t think it’s necessary to see him ranting against this on TV like some elected officials in other states. Please don’t embarrass us Gov - we’ve had enough of that.
Comment by Former State Employee Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:02 pm
Quinn has no say in who goes to what Federal Prison, nor should he. We are in a state that needs cash. His responce should have been … these are special prisoners who need a special prison. We have a prison that is empty in Thompson and we would be more than willing to lease it to the federal govt. to house any and all inmates that it see’s fit.
Comment by WOW Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:03 pm
=== the Guantanamo prisoners are too lethal to simply put into little camps - or simply put into a prison system not designed for this population.====
Where do we have any information on the lethality of all the prisoners? I have not come across this particualr peice of data?
The federal prisonm system was able to handle McVeigh, Nichols, and Fortier (Fortier was not only invovled, but ratted on the others, fun time for him in jail).
Not sure I by this idea that as a generalization one of these detainees is somehow more lethal or fangerous then Dalmer and others who have graced our prison system
Comment by Ghost Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:03 pm
Send them to Tamms. It’s not even full, and apparently it’s harsher than Gitmo (according to the Illinois Times).
Comment by How Ironic Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:13 pm
Agree with Nyberg. Quinn looks stupid by not having a solid answer.
Put them in a Federal prison someplace, here or anywhere else doesn’t matter to me honestly. I think if they are in a domestic Federal prison its going to be worse for those guys than club Cuba. The general prison population isn’t going to be nice to them.
To me, this is a non issue. Prisons are for bad guys. There are hundreds of terrorists already in our prisons.
Comment by siriusly Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:15 pm
This shouldn’t be a political question, and as long as it remains so - NO.
Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:18 pm
When you take prisoners fron the battlefield, it is not a long jump to believe that they are bad players.
Over time I would not be surprised to see escape attempts from the outside. They are in a great location with no civilians At risk.
Keep them there until you can try them. Do not bring them to the mainland
Comment by Plutocrat03 Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:23 pm
If Quinn’s concern is for the safety of the people of Illinois, he needn’t be. Marion is already known as Little Gitmo, and for good reason.
If his concern is for the constitutionality of holding people as prisoners of the United States, without trial, well, now you’re talking.
I hope Quinn, as governor, is already well acquainted with what’s going on down there.
Comment by Cheswick Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:32 pm
Would the state get the same sort of help they have offered/given to the Bahamas and Palu? If so heck yeah lets take em…
:-)
Comment by OneMan Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:38 pm
topdog, your comment was deleted because you posted in all caps. Makes you look like A SCREAMING MORON. Try reposting with proper format. Thanks.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:42 pm
If the Gov has a choice I would say no.
What speical things will have to be done at any prison that gets these individuals?
It would make more since to house them all in one location.
Comment by JustMe_JMO Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:44 pm
VM - Taxi drivers and kids doing charity work are too lethal?
Pffft.
That’s the problem with the rhetoric that conservatives have used to essentially dehumanize those people swept up and shipped to Gitmo.
Yes - some are lethal.
But clearly several are not given that a few have already been released and/or transferred out of country to less “secure” prisons.
And as for Plutocrat’s point about escape attempts “from the outside” being easier on the mainland, tell that to Khalid Sheik Mohamed’s nephew, Ramzi Yousef. He is one of the WTC truck bomb co-conspirators. He was arrested in Pakistan and extradited to New York for his court appearance. While awaiting trial he was imprisoned in New York City … “on the mainland”. He is now in the Colorado Supermax Federal prison … “on the mainland.” He hasn’t escaped yet.
As for Marion - if it’s a Federal issue it’s a Federal issue. The governor can agree or disagree but it’s a rather moot point.
To VM’s points that the Gitmo detainees are not citizens but are POWs — we are currently imprisoning several foreigners, including several foreign terrorists found and arrested in other countries, in US prisons (see the Ramzi Yousef info above).
This is little different.
And if you’re truly concerned about POW status — Ft. Leavenworth is just to the west in Kansas, though that misses the point that housing prisoners of any kind at the prison in Marion gives Illinoisans jobs to do as guards…
Comment by Rob_N Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:44 pm
===Gitmo detainees are not citizens but are POWs===
And Illinois housed lots of POWs during WW2.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:46 pm
We bomb ‘em. We shoot ‘em. But we can’t guard ‘em? I think this is ludicrous issue. If we can’t handle these guys in our own prisons why do we have any prisons in this country at all? Sure they’re mean, nasty, murdering SOBs but we got plenty of them behind bars right now.
Comment by Gimme a break Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:47 pm
In memory of the countless who were murdered and the 343 Firefighters who were also killed on 9/11. None of these or any other TERRORISTS deserve to live in America. Not now not ever!
Comment by Chicago Mike Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:50 pm
CM, the question wasn’t whether they deserved to live here. The question was about whether they should be put in a federal prison here. It’s not like they’re moving to Morgan Park.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 12:52 pm
If the Federal Government determines after a legitimate process that EC’s need to be housed in Marion, bring ‘em on in. Who knows, the always-thinking Mayor Butler down there may leverage the event to secure a Federal grant for a couple stop n’ go lights or the like.
The Lite Gov should concentrate on the beaucoup of State-level problems affecting Illinois, including what ever happened to the allegations that his hand-picked Corrections boss has some fumigable issues at his former place of employment.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:02 pm
I really just don’t see what the fear is here. Is it that these detainees might escape from a Supermax and career-around the Midwest committing acts of terrorism? Are we afraid that they’ll recruit Muslim inmates into an incarcerated terrorist cell locked in cells? Maybe we worry that they’ll use pilfered spoons to confect the world’s most astonishing IED, and then blow-up their cellblock. I just don’t get it.
That said, VanillaMan makes a good point about extrajudicial incarcerations. I find them repugnant too, but how can we be complicit if no public official here actually needs to sign-off?
Comment by David Starrett Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:06 pm
Yes — I’m far angrier about the short average sentances of convicted rapists than I’m fearful that the terrorists are going to manage to breakout.
Comment by lake county democrat Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:07 pm
I’m not worried about a breakout. They’ll be surrounded by rednecks with guns (no offense intended, I consider myself a redneck), they’re not going anywhere.
Comment by Anon Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:13 pm
USP Marion would do a lovely job holding these prisoners. USP Marion has held convicts who are much more able to cause problems and has had very little trouble handling these prisoners over the years. Quinn needs to focus on issues which are a part of his job description. Fortunately, choosing where Federal prisoners are located is not a question that is under his control.
Comment by Mr. Harrisburg Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:14 pm
I don’t think Quinn has a say, but of course they can be imprisoned here.
All the tough Congressmen and Senators who are scared to bring these guys into their states or districts is laughable.
The real “bad guys” at Gitmo are 10 feet tall? Where’d they get that reputation, being part of a group that hijacked a few airplanes when our guard was down? Give me a break.
Put the real bad guys at 26th and Cal and we’ll see how tough they are.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:23 pm
Tamms or Thompson or Marion, sure, take ‘em. As long as they come with federal money. I think the only semi-valid “threat” that’s come out of all the wharrgrbl so far is that if there are loose terror cells operating in this country, an American prison could become a focal point for attacks against the town hosting it. For example, terror attacks against the town of Marion. But besides this concept being highly unlikely, would it matter, really? Terrorists can attack anywhere and claim it is for cause x,y, or z.
Their job is to make us stop doing whatever we choose to do out of fear of what *might* happen. I’ll be dammed if I let them rule me with fear. If my number comes up, fine, but until that day I’m going to live my life as a free man, not as a scared rabbit.
And I refuse to let authorities use that nebulous *threat* as the justification for doing anything THEY care to do, inside the rules or outside of them.
Comment by Gregor Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:23 pm
When they come to Illinois prisons, they will be too busy trying to survive the existing gangs and “nations” to stir up more terrorist trouble. People are making too big a deal over this prison location issue.
Comment by Whatchoo Infer Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:25 pm
Ive got an idea..
Why not build gitmo II and put it in Cuba, IL…. or perhaps in Havana, IL
Comment by The Horse Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:39 pm
–Why not build gitmo II and put it in Cuba, IL…. or perhaps in Havana, IL–
If you really want to scare these guys at Gitmo, tell them they’re being rendered to Cairo….
…Illinois!
The Mubarak Regime is big on “enhanced interrogation techniques.”
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:50 pm
No..but I’m not objective here - I live too close. However, I don’t feel that this is a State’s decision. I feel Obama should have had a plan in place before he announced he was going to close Gitmo.
Comment by Southern Illinois Voter Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 1:51 pm
I don’t think the Feds really care what pat Quinn thinks, it’s a Federal prison.
Comment by Dan S, a Voter and Cubs Fan Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:06 pm
Yes - Quinn should lead here too, by example. Trust the Obama Administration and the people of Marion and the prison -
Comment by collar observer Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:12 pm
It’s obvious that all the pros are trying to provide cover for Obama because he stepped into it.
The danger was never over them escaping. It was over their collaborators like the ACLU and some federal judges. They are liable to put them on the street.
Federal judges aren’t all good guys. It is well known that in the old days, whenever a well known mobster died, there was at least one federal judge at the funeral. Also, there is a federal judge in prison for sex offenses who is still a federal judge. One of the Democrat’s revered members of congress is a former impeached federal judge.
Once upon a time, communities begged for state prisons because it brought them jobs and commerce.
Little did they know that it also brought them crime because the loved ones of the inmates moved to their communities and setllted there and, after all, the welfare checks went much farther than in the big city they left behind.
Needless to say, the residents wish they had it to do over again.
As far as the Germans during WWII and Timothy McVeighm, et. al., there is a big difference.
Before now, Americans have not encountered bad guys who didn’t care about their own lives. In fact they almost take a pride in suicide killings.
Comment by True Observer Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:21 pm
Durbin would not have floated the balloon unless he was sure it was going to fly. This is a done deal with the mirage of making it look like there’s some dialogue. Marion was good enough for John Gotti. I personally don’t think the taxpayers should be paying for these detainees in any U.S. prison, but the voters elected Obama and apparently thinks it’s just fine. So, now we’re in the grudgingly acceptance stage and we’re all ready to take the federal dollars. It’s not the money, it’s the principle and I can almost assure anyone that there are some folks in Union and Johnson counties who would be happy to run into the detainees if they ever did escape.
Comment by Dznuts Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:24 pm
===Needless to say, the residents wish they had it to do over again.===
Yeah. I clearly remember all the protests in favor of Rod Blagojevich shutting down the Pontiac prison.
They were huuuuuge.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:25 pm
I can’t understand the objections to housing these guys in a federal prison anywhere on US soil. It’s not like we’re talking about the X-Men here…plus, what kind of grand old time do you think they’ll be having? Criminals in Marion and other federal prisons are bad, bad dudes, but they’re also Americans, and they DO know what happened on 9.11.2001.
Comment by Concerned Observer Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:26 pm
Absolutely Not! They are where they belong until disposition of return to their countries of origin or further retention. We already built and paid for Gitmo - designed for that purpose. I do not want to see radical Islamic indoctrination imported into our domestic prisons. The major gangs already have far too much control within the confines, why risk radicalization of these populations many of whom will be released back into society. No, let’s not be naive!
Comment by A Citizen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:36 pm
===I do not want to see radical Islamic indoctrination imported into our domestic prisons.===
Really? THIS is your concern?
My concern would be keeping the Gitmo detainees safe from the rest of the prison population, definitely not the other way around. These people are not, as previously stated, XMEN, nor are they sorcerers with the ability to corrupt the hearts and minds of America’s entire imprisoned population.
If you don’t want them in our prisons, fine. But please be kind enough to give us the real reason why instead of baseless, fear-mongering rhetoric.
Comment by Obamarama Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 2:53 pm
I think what is necessary to point out is not only is there no reason to believe these detainees have any powers of evil exceeding that of any other criminal that would be detained in a prison facility such as that in Marion, but that not all of these detainees are terrorists or even criminals for that matter.
There is no telling how many of the remaining detainees at Gitmo are innocent bystaners who happened to be in the wrong place, say the wrong thing or have the wrong name.
Comment by JS Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:01 pm
===I do not want to see radical Islamic indoctrination imported into our domestic prisons.===
Really? THIS is your concern?
Instead of mocking this view, please be aware of the recent murder of a US soldier due to a muslim convert, who received his indoctrination in prison.
Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:23 pm
- Obamarama -
With all due respect - I disagree with your point of view. I feel no obligation to terrorists (alleged or whatever) to risk importing them and their mindset. If they are as “innocent” as you feel then how did they end up at Gitmo? I still say leave them there until disposition.
Comment by A Citizen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:25 pm
=== who received his indoctrination in prison.===
So, it’s already there. Your argument really doesn’t hold up, particularly since they’ll likely be separated from the rest of the population, as have others in similar circumstances.
Move along, please.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:28 pm
I have no issues with this. I worked at Marion Federal in the 80’s and can tell you the staff can handle any type of inmate sent to them. The only issue would be an outside attack of some kind which would be hard to handle do to the rural location and response time from federal and state authorities.
Comment by NIEVA Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:31 pm
Rich, as I move along, over my shoulder I am saying that I see No upside to such a move and unnecessary risk. So, still, Absolutely No! Of course there is that pesky unkept campaign promise - that is probably worth a few lives? Not.
Comment by A Citizen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:36 pm
I know that. However, I believe this belief shouldn’t be mocked as inconsequential. It will need to be addressed, whether right or wrong.
Comment by VanillaMan Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 3:47 pm
As I understand it, these supermax prisons are 23 hours plus solitary per day. No problem in Marion if they have sufficient staff. It’s a Fed payroll.
Don’t know that the Guv has any position to take.
Comment by Truthful James Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 4:18 pm
=== Instead of mocking this view, please be aware of the recent murder of a US soldier due to a muslim convert, who received his indoctrination in prison. ====
as opposed to all the other people murdered by excons? really, your concern when excons murder is that in a rare incident one of the many excon murders was by a muslim?
So you want to acoid excons killing people? Then you must support a tax increase to fund all all those mental health services, drug treatment programs, jobs programs and release programs for excons.
Comment by Ghost Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 4:25 pm
- Ghost -
I would think that if even one life would be saved by not importing these terrorist detainees that would be worth it. What price do you put on an innocent life?
Comment by A Citizen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 4:33 pm
===Durbin would not have floated the balloon unless he was sure it was going to fly. This is a done deal with the mirage of making it look like there’s some dialogue.===
…you mean like when he called for the special election for the Obama Senate seat?
Comment by anon Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 4:46 pm
===Durbin would not have floated the balloon unless he was sure it was going to fly. This is a done deal with the mirage of making it look like there’s some dialogue.===
…you mean like when he called for the remainder of George Ryan’s prison term to be commuted?
Comment by Leroy Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 5:01 pm
A Citizen, are they going to somehow commit acts of terrorism from behind bars?
Do they have laser beam eyes or Dark Side mind powers?
How many buildings did Tim McVeigh bomb from behind bars?
Why is there this incessant need to “be afraid, be very afraid” from some quarters?
Comment by Rob_N Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 5:22 pm
charge the Feds $6 billion per terrorist. State budget problem solved.
Comment by Jack Athens Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 5:38 pm
We have a winner.
Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 5:39 pm
(yes, even though the IP doesn’t match, it’s me. And I like all the other ‘observers’ that have cropped up. We’re not related. But I digress….)
I think those who are worried about these ‘radical’ ‘terrorists’ and their ‘indoctrination’ are forgetting the fact that these people HAVEN’T BEEN TRIED YET. Of course, they may be radical, they may be terrorists. They probably are.
But what makes the guy who drove Osama bin Laden’s car any more dangerous, when behind the walls of a prison, than a serial killer?
And isn’t it easier for them to make plans when they’re the -only- ‘clique’ in a given institution (like say, Guantanamo) than at a place with the Bloods, Crips, Sistas, whoever watching them (in addition to the guards)?
I say, throw them in solitary, try them, convict them, never let them out. But if it’s cheaper for solitary to happen at Marion than in Cuba, then why not save a few bucks along the way?
Comment by Concerned Observer Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 5:42 pm
Quinn’s answer should be another question..”what’s in it for me (Illinois)?”
Let’s take them if it gets Illiois $!!
Comment by long time state worker Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 6:54 pm
What do you think would happen if one of the Guantanamo detainees got into it with one of the prison’s current residents from i.e. Red Bud or the West Side of Chicago?
Seriously, I have full faith in the people in Marion. I do not understand the NIMBY fear.
Comment by Levi voted for Judy Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 7:09 pm
Calling common sense and mature judgement “nimby fear” or just “fear” is intellectually dishonest. This is not Tiddly Winks or some other “feel Good” group hug issue.
Comment by A Citizen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 8:25 pm
The Chicken Hawks sure get their feathers ruffled on this. It’s embarrassing and hard to believe. These guys are too tough for the United States of America to handle? Read your history.
If you’ve ever been in a state or federal prison, you would not be worried about at all. The folks who run the prisons are pretty good at their jobs.
The inmates are pretty good at running their side of the equation, too, in their own way. As someone has mentioned before, if I were a Gitmo bad guy, I’d be scared to death about going to a U.S. prison. Vice Lords, Latin Kings, BGD, Aryan Nation, Outlaws, pick your poison — they’re all waiting.
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 8:48 pm
Furthermore, is everyone clear on the reason they were detained in Gitmo in the first place?
It was not because they were so “dangerous,” it was to keep them out of the reach of U.S. courts.
Holy Smokes, we’re the United States of America. We don’t keep people in jail forever, with no charges and no chance to see a judge.
What are you guys scared of?
Comment by wordslinger Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 9:00 pm
word, I have to agree. A cellblock at Marion is a long way from the pot of gold and 72 virgins these fellas signed on for.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Monday, Jun 22, 09 @ 9:26 pm