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* Can someone please explain this Jim Thome deal to me?
The 39-year-old Thome is hitting .252 with 23 home runs and 74 RBI in 106 games this season. He has 564 career home runs.
The five-time All-Star is owed $2,415,301 from his $13 million salary, and is eligible to become a free agent after the World Series.
The White Sox get minor league infielder Justin Fuller and will send cash to the Dodgers. It was not immediately known how much Chicago was sending to the Dodgers.
Look, I know Thome isn’t the player he used to be. I never expected him to be around at the start of next season, either.
But we get an “A Adv” League infielder hitting .231 and pay the Dodgers to take Thome? Even though Thome becomes a free agent after this season? Sure, we wouldn’t get anything for Thome at that point, but I hardly see the reasoning here. It’s almost insulting.
The only explanation is that the Sox are dumping payroll because ownership believes the team is tanking hard - which it is - and fans won’t show up to games this month - and they probably won’t. But gross insults like this may make the fan situation worse.
* I am no fan at all of Jose Contreras. In fact, I can’t stand the guy. But at least we got some cash for him…
The Colorado Rockies acquired right-hander Jose Contreras from the Chicago White Sox on Monday night for cash and minor leaguer Brandon Hynick. […]
The 37-year-old Contreras is 5-13 with a 5.42 ERA and 89 strikeouts in 21 starts this season. He’s pitched in seven major league seasons with the Yankees and White Sox and is 70-63 with a 4.66 ERA.
The 24-year-old Hynick is 10-9 with a 3.83 ERA and two complete games in 26 starts this season with Triple-A Colorado Springs.
* Obviously, the Sox are planning some much-needed rebuilding. If Ozzie Guillen stays on board, then they need to get back to “small ball” players, who seem to work better with Guillen’s coaching style. General Manager Kenny Williams appeared to lose his grasp of that concept after the 2005 World Series win. If anybody in management ought to go, it should be him. At least, that’s my opinion. What’s yours?
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:10 am
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Greg Walker is an awful hitting coach and should be sacked. The team has never had a team batting average higher than 6th during his tenure.
Comment by Ravenswood Right Winger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:13 am
I think it’s because deep in his heart, Jerry Reinsdorf is still a Dodgers fan.
Comment by Cheryl44 Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:17 am
Don’t we have a history of this with Jerry Reinsdorf and the White Sox? Why are people surprised. Shall we call this White Flag 2?
Comment by Chicago Cynic Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:18 am
The Chairman pulled his offer for the Phoenix Coyotes. Maybe he’s having cash flow problems.
I’m going to nod along with Cheryl though.
Comment by Brennan Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:20 am
I don’t know Rich. Maybe Kenny Williams is clearing payroll in advance of trading for Milton Bradley and Alphonso Soriano. I think he could get them both for a box of baseballs and some pine tar to be named later.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:22 am
they had 5 months to win, give a veteran a chance for a ring. I have more faith in kenny rebuilding that team than the morass on the north side. If cutler wasn’t in town, hendry would be run up a flag pole right now.
Comment by Shore Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:25 am
We’re gonna win Twins!
Comment by Ned Racnad Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:26 am
I disagree wholeheartedly on all points.
Kenny Williams has stated his favorite ballplayer of all time is Jim Thome. Now that we’re out of it in the midst of this disastrous road trip, Kenny traded Thome to the Dodgers to give him a chance to get his World Series ring.
Thome will be a left-handed bat off the bench in the playoffs and a DH in the Series, if they make it. I know who my team in the playoff is now.
It was a classy move for one of the true good guys in baseball who’s probably in the last year of his Hall of Fame career.
To get anything for Contreras at this point is amazing. I don’t know what the Rockies think he’ll do in the thin air of Denver. But remember, we wouldn’t have gotten to or won the World Series without him in 2005.
Kenny’s the only GM to bring a champion to this town in a combined 184 baseball seasons. He’s got brains and guts ands gets my vote for the best GM in baseball.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:27 am
Wouldn’t Thome have netted the Sox draft pick compensation if he walked after 2009? He’s gotta be at least a type B free agent, yes?
Comment by The Doc Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:31 am
In addition, Thome’s already been paid by the Sox for most of the season. There’s not a whole lot of savings left there, and the Sox weren’t going to pick up his option for next year.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:31 am
As a Sox fan, it breaks my heart. If I don’t put any emotions into it, it makes sense. Maybe I’m getting too old, but when I see all the guys coming and going through the Team over the years, I realize how hard it is to remain in love sometimes.
Thome was a good “face” for the Sox, and he will be missed. Yeah - business-wise, it was the thing to do, but heart-wise, I hate this part of the game.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:32 am
I’ll stay poz
Looks like all Cardinals all the time
Let’s get to the play offs pronto
Sorry to see Thome go. He is first class
Comment by Reddbyrd Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:32 am
I agree with wordslinger on all points. Williams has made some good moves for the future already this season with Peavy & Rios.
But my only question is if us season ticket holders still need to have our playoff money in by tomorrow?
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:32 am
Had to weigh in on this. Wordslinger is correct on all points.
And Doc, he only nets compensation if the Sox offered him arbitration, which is unlikely because he might accept. There’s no way the Dodgers will offer him arbitration (I think he might be a Type A), and I think Kenny still might bring Thome back for another year at no cost (and a cheaper salary).
Comment by Concerned Observer Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:34 am
All the chatter was about Dye being traded, instead…I think, Williams is saving money by traded these two high priced guys, maybe for some other high priced player.
Still Dye is not out of the woods.
Also thanks for the updates on Carlos Hernadez Gomez yesterday Rich. Let’s hope for a full and speedy recovery for him.
Comment by Third Generation Chicago Native Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:34 am
Thanks, CO. Forgot about the arbitration part of the equation.
Comment by The Doc Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:35 am
this is Kenny helping Thome go get a ring cause we are done for the season. time to root for the Dodgers. they got garland too.
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:36 am
Walker has developed Beckham and Getz pretty well and righted the sinking ship of Alexi’s 2009 season quite nicely. Is it his fault the veteran thumpers were striking out and popping up the last few months (and years)? Absolutely not. You don’t spend a decade or more in the majors and require significant help in fixing your swing or timing. Father time is the only person to blame.
And as Wordslinger said, KW has done a great job in the two acquisitions this season - setting us up nicely for the next few years. Not to mention we could potentially have some money to make a splash in free agency this winter. While the Peavy and Rios deals have tied up quite a bit of the money, Thome and Contreas off the books as well as possibily not resigning JD, we could be able to get a one or two new toys for Ozzie to tinker with - how good would Carl Crawford look in a Sox uniform?
Comment by First Timer Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:45 am
Thome is a terrific human being, but it’s become obvious in the last two years that he really hurts the club’s flexibility. He’s a big bat that doesn’t produce enough anymore to justify a monopoly on the DH spot, and yet he’s too valuable not to have in the lineup. But when you’ve got Carlos Quentin, who’s been nursing injuries and is more dangerous than Thome at this point in his carreer, unable to DH so that he can heal because Thome’s in the way the issue comes to the forefront. Now you can still re-sign Dye if the deal is right and platoon him and Quentin between DH and the outfield while bringing in someone with more speed like Rios to get a more athletic team. Last year, the middle of the lineup was (in whatever order) Konerko, Thome, Dye, Crede, Quentin and AJ and no speed at the top or bottom of the order. Now you have Podsednik, Getz and Rios who are all able to steal 20+ bases, a terrific clutch RBI rookie in Beckham and still a meat of the order with Konerko, Dye, Quentin and AJ. That’s a balanced lineup if you can get them all in the game, which you can do with Thome gone.
The guy’s a really terrific human being on top of being one of the game’s great players. It kills me that we were never able to give him a serious shot at a postseason run, and I hope he gets that in LA, but he was going to be out the door either now or at the end of the season, and I’m just glad he gets to go somewhere where he can maybe get the ring that will go on top of a wonderful career.
Comment by Scooby Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:48 am
This almost resembles a white flag trade!
Comment by Levois Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 11:56 am
I’m with Scooby. I love Thome as a player and as a symbol of the non-roid era, but a) he’s feast or famine in a lineup with about six other feast or famine hitters b) he’s ineffective against most left handers, and c)you’re pruning to inspire new growth. I think Paulie and Dye are goners next year too. Get ready for the Tyler Flowers era at first base.
Comment by Jay Cutler's hairdo Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:02 pm
The experts over at South Side Sox agree with Wordslinger and so do I. Thome even waived his no-trade clause so he could have a chance at the WS. And he very well could be back next year to continue his creep toward 600 HRs.
The Sox players have had me PO’d for their attitude since 2007. Konerko, Dye, and Pierzinski don’t appear to really care anymore when it really matters. Or they’re old and lost their edge.
Comment by Lefty Lefty Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:02 pm
Lefty, I don’t think the Sox will bring him back. They’re going to shoot for youth and defense and building around their four starters (Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd) and bullpen anchored by Thornton and Jenks.
Dye, AJ and Konerko — my guess is at least two of three are gone. AJ could stay as a backup, lefty catcher. Youth must be served at some point.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:06 pm
Question of the day. Who is the worst team Cubs or Sox.
Or are they one in the same CubSox.
LOL
Comment by Go Cardinals Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:13 pm
I have no problem with either move. Gives us a chance to try out Dye at DH and play our outfielders full time. The Sox have a solid young core and now have a ton of cash for next years free agency. Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, Troy Glaus, Erik Bedard. I’d take any of them.
Comment by Cosmic Charlie Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:13 pm
Wordslinger, I think you may be mistaken on Thome getting a ring should the Dodgers win the series. Thome would have to play in every game and contribute big numbers for the team to give him a share of the WS credit. He’ll only be there for about 33 games of 162 played in a season. I doubt he’d get a share of the WS glory let alone a ring.
And folks, let’s be real. This is no White Flag redux. Sox are out 6 games off a 2-8 run!
Comment by Joe in the Know Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:18 pm
I am also in the camp which believes the Thome trade has much to do with trying to help the big old slugger get a WS ring before he retires from baseball–which was a main reason he came to the Sox in 2006 in the first place. My understanding is that Thome had a full no trade clause which he chose to waive for this deal so he is probably OK with it.
A lot of blogs and sports websites this morning theorize that now Frank Thomas will be brought back for a few days in Sept. so he can properly retire as a White Sox and get his due from fans, while possibly also helping attendence. Many apparently also think that Thome may also return to the south side next year (for cheap) so that he, too, can retire as a White Sox. Maybe it’s all wishful thinking based on nostalgia for these two awesome players, but I like the way it sounds and hope it comes true.
Comment by Responsa Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:18 pm
===I doubt he’d get a share of the WS glory let alone a ring.===
If he’s on the team he gets a ring.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:20 pm
Thome has always represented his home state well, but this trade makes sense–as much as most sports deals can make sense.
And it’s Cardinals all the way!
Comment by Fan of the Game Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:21 pm
Dodgers wanted to make sure he didn’t end up playing 1st base for the Giants. So he’ll sit the bench and wait for a situation to arise.
And that situation might not be the World Series. If the Dodgers were in the series, wouldn’t you put Manny at DH and plop Juan Pierre in left field?
Comment by Michelle Flaherty Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:25 pm
Joe in the Know,
Geoff Blum got a ring in 2005 despite playing in only 31 games for the Good Guys…soooooo, yeah, Thome will get a ring if they win.
Comment by First Timer Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 12:57 pm
TGIF - Thank God It’s Football season!
(In November/December when the Bears start to tank, we can switch to the Hawks or Bulls, then back to the Sox in the Spring.)
I love the Sox, but it would be nice if they used the money they work so hard to save to lower ticket prices so I could afford to see a game or two.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:06 pm
The Thome deal is a move for his sake- let him play out his contract with a real chance at the postseason rather than finishing the string with the Sox and then going on. A good point made at Soxmachine is that the move counters some of the bad blood exits some players have had from the Sox.
Contreras- that move got a pitcher with some upside in exchange or eating some share of Jose’s salary. I can see not liking Jose for performance reasons the last couple seasons, but this is a guy that worked ridiculously hard and came back way ahead of schedule from what could have been a career ending injury, then volunteered to go down to the minors when things were going poorly. I respect him for that much. But his age shows on the mound- he can’t face batters a second time in a game anymore. Those rare times now when he pulls it all together you can really see how good he must have been as a younger man in Cuba.
Comment by R Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:07 pm
I agree this was mostly a good-will gesture to Thome - put him in a pennant race. And I didn’t read all the comments, so this may have been covered, but with respect to the question about whether he will be a Type B free agent after this year, two things. One, the info I’ve seen suggests he will be a Type A free agent (yielding two com draft picks). Two, though, nobody’s going to offer him arbitration, so the comp issue is moot.
Comment by Reality Check Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:10 pm
This is NOT a white flag trade. This is getting rid of a pitcher whose time is well past and getting SOMETHING for him. and it’s probably more about letting Thome get a chance at a ring and open up the DH spot for Dye or Quinten so this team can start to figure out what next year is going to look like. All that being said, the starting line-up tonight, on paper, is still one that can compete. Six games back with 11 against the Tigers and Twins. Weirder things have happened.
Comment by L.S. Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:12 pm
Maybe they wanted to free up money and get some speed as he is painfully slow and hurts me to watch. You already have super Sox, Konerko, why need his twin?
Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:14 pm
I’m mixed on the trades. In some ways, it seems like the Dodgers got away with a lot for Thome. Sending a Class A player for a HOF’er doesn’t seem like a fair trade. But considering that the Dodgers don’t expect Thome to play at all except to pinch hit (what sense does that make?), I guess maybe a high price wasn’t in order.
I am stunned that we got anything for Contreras. Sure, he has one or two starts every 6-8 weeks that are decent, but the rest of the time he looks every bit the washed up 40 something player he really is (anyone really trust his birth certificate?). To get a full-time Triple A starter in return is impressive. And remember, his minor league ERA was with him playing in the Rockies.
I think sometimes Kenny Williams is too trigger happy, thinking like a fantasy league owner rather than a GM and trading just for the sake of trading. But this isn’t White Flag II. The Sox have shown no ability to get on a real hot streak an catch the two teams in front of them. Williams at least tried to get something in return for one player gone in 5 weeks and another way past his prime. I’ll give him a pass for these two.
Comment by South Side Mike Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:15 pm
PS, both teams are out of first, but neither stink. CUbs are underachievers, but Sox are huge overacheivers with that roster.
Comment by Wumpus Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:26 pm
“Six games back with 11 against the Tigers and Twins. Weirder things have happened.” Yeah, but the Chicago teams are usually on the failing end.
Comment by What planet is he from? Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:33 pm
Wordslinger has it right in my opinion, too.
I’m sad to see Thome go — but he’s not getting any younger — every interview I’ve seen recently indicates he’s keenly aware that the sand is about through the glass — and this may be his last, best chance. Since my Sox are out of it, color me Dodger Blue for the duration. Thome’s a class act and deserves this shot.
As for dumping on Williams, he’s had some misfires. But he seems to have hit more than he’s missed. The trade to Arizona may be a famously bad one some day — the prospect traded is already hitting a ton for the Dbacks. And Rios isn’t doing much for me (or the team).
But, on balance, Kenny’s done more good than not and deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Remember, the Sox weren’t supposed to do better than 4th this year anyway… and next year is looking pretty darn good from here.
Comment by The Curmudgeon Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 1:37 pm
The Sox have had the same problems since the ‘06 season i.e. too slow and poor defense. Moving Thome gives you some flexibility in improving those two things.
As far as Contreras goes, I admire the man for coming back from a bad injury last year and obviously losing a lot of weight and getting in shape. I feel he has a lot of miles on his arm and it shows now. Give him credit for a good career and being a big part of the ‘05 season but he is done.
Comment by Stones Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 2:09 pm
Wordslinger is 100% correct.
And Michelle, Juan Pierre may be good on the bags, but he has to get there first. I’d say Thome is DH in the WS if he’s hitting against a left handed starter.
Comment by Go Dodgers Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 2:40 pm
This was a wake up call to the remaining roster. The players are on notice that their tenure depends on the remaining games, if that wasn’t apparent to them before.
It seems sad that we have to lament the loss of a player with a .252 batting average. It shows how we Sox fans have been accustomed to poor hitting the last few years.
Comment by Tom Joad Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 2:42 pm
===Konerko, Dye, and Pierzinski don’t appear to really care anymore ===
I would disagree about AJ. He gets ticked off at himself more than any of the other players.
===Weirder things have happened.” Yeah, but the Chicago teams are usually on the failing end.===
I thought last year was a pretty weird way to get into the playoffs. We ended up on the passing end that time.
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 3:22 pm
Rich, you’re reading this trade wrong. It’s not a baseball move (about the players you get). It’s not a business move (about the salary you get rid of).
This is one of the most decent baseball moves I’ve seen. (That’s decent in the human sense.) The Sox are going nowhere, and are giving a 39 year old all-time great one (last?) chance to chase that elusive World Series ring.
The Sox don’t save money in the deal. They don’t get anyone who’s anyone. But they do the decent thing. As a bonus, maybe they generate a little goodwill in the process.
Comment by Just a Reader Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 3:47 pm
It was great to have Jim Thome in a Sox uniform for several years. He seemed to be an inspiration to his teammates, especially Paulie, and his moonshot home runs were spectacular. However, his end time with the Sox was overdue, because a .250 batting average for a DH and his plodding on the basepaths needed to be moved to make room for options in the DH spot. Now our best hitter, AJ, does not have to sit when he does not catch. Thanks, Jim Thome, and good luck in LA.
Comment by overcooked Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 4:25 pm
Joe in the Know, the players vote on playoff bonus shares, the owners decide on the rings.
In 2005, Reinsdorf gave a ring to everyone associated full-time with the club. I have a buddy who works in the front office. It’s not the same as the players’ ring, but it’s as big as an ostrich egg.
Thome will be on the playoff roster, belivee me. He and Manny Hollywood, back together. We ain’t in Cleveland anymore.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 7:00 pm
==Dodgers wanted to make sure he didn’t end up playing 1st base for the Giants. So he’ll sit the bench and wait for a situation to arise.–
Michelle, I heard that on the radio today, but it doesn’t compute. No one, and I mean no one, in a pennant race was looking for Thome to play the field. Anywhere.
Like the man said, it’s not personal, it’s business.
Here’s to Mr. Incredible, the Pride of Peoria. Best of luck, brother.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 7:10 pm
Williams stays!
When he was named GM, I saw it as a politically correct move by Reinsdorf….hey, put an inexperienced young guy in the job for MLB diversity purposes. WRONG.
Williams found guys from nowhere, spent more on Garcia and Contrereas than I thought they were worth, traded Carlos Lee for some quick guy from Milwuakee I never heard of, and brought in crazy Ozzie to manage. Result: holding the trophy in 2005. Not the overpaid, overjuiced Yankees, us.
Not the Cards (my second fave), us.
Only problem I ever had with him was his inability to make peace with Frank Thomas. Sure, he was a prima donna but also the best baseball player I’ve ever seen. Probably the best I’ll ever see.
So I’ve stopped second guessing Williams. He knows a heck of a lot more about baseball than I do.
Comment by Bobs yer Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 7:28 pm
Two problems: 1. Sox lead AL with 100 errors, which results in leading the league in unearned runs.
2. The “Big 3″ (Konerko, Dye, Thome) hitting .223 combined for August, with 30 RBI and 64 strikeouts.
Starting pitching is 3rd or 4th best in the league, depending on which measure you use. So no defense, no offense and you can’t win anything.
Comment by DuPage Dave Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 8:16 pm
==As a Sox fan, it breaks my heart. If I don’t put any emotions into it, it makes sense. Maybe I’m getting too old, but when I see all the guys coming and going through the Team over the years, I realize how hard it is to remain in love sometimes.–
VMan, it’s baseball, dude, not “”Brokeback Mountain.”
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 8:43 pm
–I’d say Thome is DH in the WS if he’s hitting against a left handed starter.–
You mean a righty.
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 9:16 pm
Word, please stop stifling V-Man’s creativity.
Go ahead, V-Man. If you want to compose a tune about it, I’ll listen (um, read it).
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Sep 1, 09 @ 10:57 pm