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* Here’s something I did not know…
Until Quinn assumed the post — which occurred after Rod Blagojevich was charged with corruption and booted from office — there had not been a Catholic in the job in recent memory, Green said.
Indeed, a review of historical records found there had not been a Catholic governor since the early 20th Century. It appears Edward F. Dunne — who served as the state’s top elected figure from 1913 to 1917 — was the last Catholic governor in Illinois before Quinn.
Wow.
As Catholic as this state is (about 40 percent, according to the article), and as many Catholics as we have at the top of the state’s power grid (Daley, Durbin, Stroger, Madigan, Cullerton, etc.), you’d think there would’ve been more Catholic governors.
But there’s a fairly good chance that the next governor will be a Catholic…
Of the 11 likely candidates in the Democratic and Republican primaries, a whopping nine are Roman Catholic, according to a survey by ChicagoCatholicNews.
There is just one non-Catholic on the Republican side — former state Sen. Kirk Dillard, who is Methodist — and one on the Democratic side — William “Dock” Walls, a Baptist.
Dillard isn’t a Catholic, but he attended DePaul University’s law school.
Thoughts on this?
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:15 am
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Why does it matter? Its Quinn divorced too? Why isnt there an article out about that? First divorced Governor in such and such years. These types of “litmus” tests always bug me; lets campaign on the issues. Put unfortunately in this state we have to include character in the campaign since most of our previous Governors have all been involved in “questionable” activities.
Comment by GOP4EVER Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:24 am
I had heard, from people close to him, that Dan Walker was Catholic. Wikipedia says (sourcing an Illinois oral history project), that Walker is a Methodist. However, Walker’s first wife was Catholic, and they married at a time when a Catholic marriage required, at least, the non-Catholic spouse’s commitment to raise the children as Catholic. Did Dan Walker himself become Catholic? If so, was he Catholic when elected governor? We should know in order to clear up the “Catholic governors” question.
Also, Dillard’s attendance at DePaul is a real non sequitur. Law schools at Catholic universities have not screened applicants for religion for many decades (if ever).
Comment by Conservative Republican Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:26 am
My thoughts on this? Yeah - Who cares.
Comment by Deep South Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:27 am
===These types of “litmus” tests always bug me===
Who, exactly, is performing a litmus test?
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:29 am
I belive that Dunne was also the only former Mayor of Chicago to be elected Gov.
Comment by helpful Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:29 am
Dillard’s a “former state Senator”? You didn’t catch that one.
Comment by formerGOPer Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:29 am
ahh…Rich, you have discovered the Irish Catholic parochial school/public service connection in IL politics…soldiers for Christ in the public sector…
Comment by Anonymous45 Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:32 am
Interesting factoid. I am all for finding out interesting things in life. However IMHO this should just be read, then followed up with a ‘hmm’ perhaps, and then tossed in the garbage and forgotten. Who cares what religion he is or what the previous Governors have been? Rich, I know you weren’t making any points based on Governor Quinn’s religion so I’m not attacking your post in any way here - instead, just responding to your question. My response, again, would be - who cares?
Comment by Thoughts Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:32 am
I agree with Deep South.
CR, AA’s ‘patch-raised bride recalls a Walker daughter attending Sacred Heart Academy (Catholic high School for you out of towners.) However, I recall that Gov. Ogilvie’s daughter attended SHA as well for a potion of his term and he was not Catholic.
Comment by Arthur Andersen Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:33 am
It’s probably a big story to Catholics, but personally I don’t think it matters. A Catholic may likely get elected next year, however, that wouldn’t be the reason I would vote for anyone. Of course I say that as a non-Catholic.
Comment by Levois Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:34 am
Interesting. What strikes me most is that the likes of Daley, Stroger, Madigan, etc., all hail from Chicago, and Quinn from the metro area. Are Catholics much more heavily concentrated, on a percentage basis, in the Chicagoland area, relative to the rest of the state?
Comment by The Doc Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:39 am
===Who, exactly, is performing a litmus test?===
ChicagoCatholicNews.com is performing the litmus test. This was an introduction of the candidates article to its readers and there was not one substantive issue discussed (property taxes, budget, etc…).
Comment by GOP4EVER Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:39 am
Good trivial pursuit type of question. That’s about it.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:43 am
There’s also a Catholic majority on the US Supreme Court, but only one Catholic President in history. I guess it’s just a reflection of the fact that there is a large American Catholic population, but that it doesn’t affect winning a specific race.
Comment by Sewanee Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:44 am
Seems like a slow news day.
Catholics are not some sore of exotic or rare species. Do we now survey candidates by hair or eye color next?
Comment by Plutocrat03 Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:47 am
helpful is 100% correct. Dunne was the last former Mayor of Chicago to be elected Gov.
Anyone who is a practicing (or even a non practicing) Catholic knows that there is a lot of debate in the church over current issues. One side focuses on the gay rights, abortion and other such issues while the other side is much more concerned about economic justice and help for the poor. (This debate is occuring in my own family, in fact, as one of my dad’s cousins is an adherant of liberation theology (i.e. Christ’s main message was to liberate the poor from economic oppression) and a missionary in Latin America; while another cousin is a member of Opus Dei, a very right wing Catholic group concerned with “pure” Catholic teaching (as they define it, of course).
Given the above, just saying that a Catholic will be elected Gov isn’t really enough. One must see where they come down on the debate. Being a liberal Catholic who is rather upset by many bishops focus on winning elections (by using the denial of communion to a politician who is not purely pro-life as a tacit endorsement of the other side, as happened with Kerry) I think it is great that the two main Dem candidates are on my side of these questions.
Some fool hearty Republican who claims he is Catholic and yet supports the death penalty, wants to deny health care to the uninsured, unjust war in Iraq, etc. I have no time for and would vote against despite my sharing of his or her faith.
Comment by this old hack Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:47 am
GOP4EVER, that’s more than a little bit of a stretch. Take a breath.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:53 am
Looks like I’m voting for Dillard.
Comment by WOW Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:07 am
This is obviously a new Vatican conspiracy.Time for Dan Brown to write about the situation.What a non-issue!
Comment by erin g Braugh Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:12 am
I’m not so sure it makes that big a difference, given the considerable split between Catholics on what issues matter most and what it means to be “truly” Catholic.
Notice how all over the political map these candidates are — the only thing Brady or Andrewjewski have in common with Quinn is living in the same state and belonging to the same religion!
The main thing that is “surprising” is simply the fact that Irish Catholics have held such strong political power in Chicago for generations, yet they never seem to get ahold of the governorship, until now. Maybe they prefer it that way — didn’t Mayor Daley Sr. say he got along better with Republican governors than Dems?
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:14 am
Some of you are quite sensitive. Never woulda guessed.
This post is about an historical curiosity. Yet, some apparently think it’s a deep, dark conspiracy of one kind or another.
Get over yourselves.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:14 am
It looks like the Catholic Church is conspiring with ACORN and SEIU to socialize Illinois. The next thing you know the pope will come cruising down the Sangamon River in an attempt to overcome the Sheriff’s police and occupy the governor’s mansion. Beware of soldiers wearing those funny orange costumes.
Comment by Bill Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:22 am
Given the history of Chicago Irish Catholics, it is rather interesting that Quinn is the first governor in a while, and an accidental one at that.
But Quinn has a good resume — he’s a graduate of Fenwick, the second-best high school in Oak Park
Seriously, if you ever want to feel good about the state of America’s kids, you should attend a Fenwick-Oak Park River Forest HS basketball game. The two schools are four blocks apart and they have a fierce, but good-natured rivalry.
Good clean fun for all, and the kids — players, cheerleaders, band, fans — really put their hearts and souls into it. They rock the house.
Governor, if you’re reading this, could you remind me what Fenwick’s record is in recent years vs. OPRF? I’ll bet your brother knows
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:25 am
“Are Catholics much more heavily concentrated, on a percentage basis, in the Chicagoland area, relative to the rest of the state?”
I believe that is true. However, there are some heavily or even majority Catholic communities downstate, particularly around St. Louis (settled by French and German Catholics), along the Illinois & Michigan Canal route (settled by Irish Catholics), or in coal mining and manufacturing areas that were settled by Italian/Polish/Slovakian/other Catholics.
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:28 am
Since I was a (Catholic) high school kid I wondered why all the Catholics around me were Democrats at all. It didn’t seem like the conservative social policies advocated by the Vatican matched up well with the Democratic Party, even if it is only local politics.
I would guess that almost every white man on the Chicago City Council, the Cook County Board, and the other major political entities (sheriff, state’s attorney, etc.) is Catholic. They set up there fiefdoms and enjoy their power. Why spoil it by running statewide?
And has Cardinal George ever asked the wedge questions of his Catholic political leaders? Once you’re in the driver’s seat around here, the status quo is paramount.
Comment by Lefty Lefty Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:30 am
Secret Square, there are large numbers of Catholics all over Downstate. Springfield is just one example.
I lived near a tiny town in Iroquois County that was heavily Catholic, for example.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:31 am
The question is “Thoughts on [the history of Catholic Illinois governors, or something that has to do with non-Catholics attending Cathlic schools, or the religious affiliation of current Illinois gubernatorial candidates]?” There appear to be lots of thoughts. My thought is that it has been 191 years since we have had a Buddhist, a non-Caucasian, or a woman as Governor (read never). That beats the Catholic record by nearly 100 years.
Comment by Captain Flume Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:52 am
Personally, I agree with Thoughts. Interesting factoid, but no more really. But then I’m not Catholic.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 11:53 am
Strangely enough, I knew this already. I had thought that Otto Kerner might have been Catholic but I guess he was not. As a Catholic, it does strike me as very odd that a Catholic has not been elected Governor in almost a century. Moreover, combine that with JFK being the only Catholic President and Biden being our only Catholic VP and it seems stranger still. Good trivia question: there have been have been seven candidates for President or VP that have been Catholic. 6 were Democrats. Who is the only Republican?
Comment by paddyrolingstone Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:02 pm
I am surprised. Catholics have dominated Illinois politics for decades, yet we’ve had only two as governor? Yeah - that is a big surprise. I would have never guess that.
There isn’t any immediate reason for this either. Many of the very first settlers in Illinois were French Catholics. We have strong Catholic roots across Illinois due to Eastern and Southern European immigrants taking coal mining and manufacturing jobs.
Very interesting. Much more interesting than the blowback from disinterested bloggers.
Comment by VanillaMan Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:08 pm
Check out the “Strange Maps” website and search for a post titled “Religion and Religiosity”… there you will find a map of the U.S. with the plurality religious affiliation for every county indicated by color. This is based on data from 2000.
According to the map, Catholics are the largest denomination in most Illinois counties. In far southern Illinois there is a cluster of predominantly Baptist counties (an extension of the neighboring Bible Belt states, perhaps). In central Illinois and into Indiana there are some counties in which Methodists or members of the Christian Church-Disciples of Christ are a plurality. Two counties — Mason and Iroquois — are shown as plurality Lutheran (not sure why).
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:11 pm
===shown as plurality Lutheran (not sure why). ===
Germans.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:12 pm
“Two counties — Mason and Iroquois — are shown as plurality Lutheran (not sure why).”
Because more Lutherans live there than any other demonation, silly.
Comment by Leave a Light on George Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:18 pm
George, I know that, I just was not sure HOW Lutherans ended up being the plurality denomination in those areas.
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:21 pm
Chicaga - majority of pols/cops Catholic. If’n you don’t vote (twice), off to the hooscow(sp?).
Joke. I went to Bishop McNamara in Kankakee with George Ryans daughter. But he’s Methodist. What a wacky world, eh?
Comment by You Go Boy Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:22 pm
Isn’t Blagojevch Catholic? Wasn’t he reprimanded by a priest from the pulpit for being pro-choice? Or was it another denomination that also has priests?
Comment by been there Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:43 pm
Blagojevich was Orthodox, not Roman. And at least one of his daughters was baptized by Tom Cross’ father, who is a Protestant minister.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:46 pm
I believe Gov. B was Eastern Orthodox Catholic. It would be more appropriate to say that Quinn is our first Roman Catholic Governor in recent times.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:55 pm
Wow. If I had known that about Blago, I might have voted for him. 1…2…3…Not.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 12:56 pm
Would that be Buckley, Il Rich?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:00 pm
“Eastern Orthodox Catholic”?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:04 pm
Anon 1:00 pm, that handle’s already taken. Thanks
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:05 pm
Pot, are you referring to the Eastern Orthodox Churches–which are commonly known as “Greek Orthodox”, “Russian Orthodox”, etc?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:14 pm
Great fact — I learned that at this event:
http://www.rpwrhs.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=4&Itemid=2
Governor / Mayor / Judge Dunne is buried in Calvary Cemetery on the boundary of Chicago and Evanston — which, as the archdiocese’s first cemetery dating back to the 1850s — has a huge chunk of Chicago Catholic pols and luminaries (like the Commiskey family, Rich. See? Sox fans have a reason to make a pilgrimage to the North side!)
Comment by Beans Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:15 pm
Lutherans are just fallen away Catholics…
Comment by Anonymous45 Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:25 pm
Anonymous45, I seriously doubt you are a Lutheran.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:27 pm
To understand what Pot is talking about you would have to delve into some heavy duty theological issues regarding the nature of the relationship between the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches since their division in the Great Schism of 1054. Those are way beyond the scope of this blog.
Suffice it to say that in ordinary conversation “Catholic” means “member of a religious body that recognizes the pope (Bishop of Rome) as its ultimate jurisdictional authority.” That does NOT include Eastern Orthodox.
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:52 pm
===Those are way beyond the scope of this blog. ===
Nah.
Feel free to expound.
lol
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:53 pm
didn’t say I was, but Luther rebelled against the Catholic Church and that was the beginning of…Lutherans…now who’s bein’ sensitive?…
Comment by Anonymous45 Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:56 pm
The Eastern Orthodox Church refers to itself as the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.”
Another little factoid to keep this going!
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:57 pm
Anonymous45, Lutherans didn’t “fall away.” It was an all-out, nasty, brutish split that led to war.
Fallen away more than just implies that they could come home like the Prodigal Son. Impossible, considering the history.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:59 pm
All organized religion is poltical…IMHO none more so than the Catholic Church (which I no longer attend for obvious reasons of late)…parochial school is a great intro to the nuances of politics…it’s the first place where kids realize it’s not what you know, but who you know…
Comment by Anonymous45 Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 1:59 pm
Pot, you do know right, that in my Church:
- Priests actually marry and have families,
- Getting divorced and getting re-married is–let’s summarize by saying–something that’s up to each individual to decide, and
- Everyone is welcome?
There are a few other differences when compared to Catholicism, including the fact that our Church leaders and the Pope get together every once in a while to simply say hello.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 2:01 pm
make that “political”
Comment by Anonymous45 Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 2:01 pm
1054 is referred to as the “schism”, but the split began in the early 300s.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 2:06 pm
Nah.
Feel free to expound.
lol
See, Rich. That’s why we should stick to “safe” topics…like politics. lol
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 2:09 pm
More importantly, what parish is he from?
Comment by Just wondering Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 2:27 pm
What is interesting and important is that Illinois politicians are still heavily engaged in categorizing aspirants for public office according to their ethnic/religious/racial backgrounds, and allocating positions accordingly. It is my impression that this is done more in Illinois than in much of the rest of the country.
Comment by Quiet Sage Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 2:58 pm
“Fallen away more than just implies that they could come home like the Prodigal Son. Impossible, considering the history.”
Maybe, maybe not. The Catholic/Anglican split was similarly bloody, and yet the Pope has now rolled out the welcome mat to married Anglican priests.
Comment by Beans Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 3:11 pm
Calling oneself Catholic and living as a Catholic are two very different things.
Quinn is divorced. Quinn was in a multi-decade relationship that included everything but marriage. Quinn supports abortion….
Other than attending Catholic schools, I’m having a hard time seeing much “Catholic” in Quinn.
Comment by Chi Gal Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 3:14 pm
Actually, Louis, some Protestant churches also use the Apostles and Nicene Creeds, which contain the phrase in question. I think they interpret “Catholic” in the small “c” sense of an adjective meaning universal or worldwide (which is what it originally meant).
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 3:55 pm
What I am really wondering about is what that political icon of integrity and non-bias Bobbie Steele actually thinks about this? The fact is that I would find it hard to believe that more than 2%-3% of the voters who have voted in the past 25 years have had any religious bias. Don’t let Bobbie know that we haven’t had any Illinois governors of Danish ancestory ever elected in the state’s history, either. Wonder what she would say to that? Hmmm?
Comment by The Prophet Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 4:30 pm
By the way, the answer to Paddy’s trivia question is William E. Miller, Barry Goldwater’s running mate in 1964.
Comment by Secret Square Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 4:34 pm
Professor Green should spend some more time in the library. Governors Dunne and Quinn are the only Catholics to serve as the chief executive of Illinois in the state’s history.
Some would add that Dunne was a practical Catholic while Quinn is something else.
Comment by Honest Abe Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 4:38 pm
practical catholic?
Comment by My Kind of Town Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 4:40 pm
oh, they mean Roman Catholic……
Comment by Amalia Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 4:46 pm
========
What is interesting and important is that Illinois politicians are still heavily engaged in categorizing aspirants for public office according to their ethnic/religious/racial backgrounds, and allocating positions accordingly.
========
Ya think that still applies today? I don’t know, so I’m asking. How would that apply to, e.g., the Senate Race–starting with Giannoulias who was sworn in on a bible from a Greek Orthodox Church?
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 5:39 pm
======
The fact is that I would find it hard to believe that more than 2%-3% of the voters who have voted in the past 25 years have had any religious bias.
======
My gut (and it’s only gut) would say maybe a teeny bit higher if the period’s cut back to, maybe, the last 15 years. And then there’s the difference between knowing for sure and assuming, I suppose.
And, seriously, why do I feel so odd discussing this? Off to another thread for me!
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 5:47 pm
Honest Abe, you forgot William H. Bissell, governor from 1857 until he died in 1860. He became a Catholic in 1854.
Comment by Bookworm Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 6:45 pm
Brady is Catholic? I’m not, but I’m more likely to vote for him now.
Comment by T.J. Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 7:08 pm
Let’s stop injecting religion into Government. Let’d judge the person not his religion.
Comment by Springfieldwatcher Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:11 pm
Maybe its an issue if you think that some big abortion or birth control related legislation is going to come up in the next term and the governor might or might not apply their personal religious leanings toward their decision to support or veto the law. An opponent might try to use that as a scare tactic. I find that unlikely though as the Republicans in their current incarnation are also anti-abortion.
But this may have little to do with the process, it all depends on how any governor balances stewardship and personal vision versus what his constituents tell him or her they want. Kennedy said as much when he addressed the issue.
I would opine that since Catholic schools stress and hold up public service and social justice activism as part of living your faith, that this could be a reason so many Catholics are attracted to public service careers. Then too it doesn’t hurt to have the connection to all the fellow church members as a base network to launch a campaign thru. They already know you if you’ve shown leadership and service in your religious community.
I think it’s a push, really, whether the faith will shape the leader’s choices, since you have a lot of debate within the American Catholic church among the more hard-core and the more “relaxed” interpretation parishioners. Just for one example, most any Catholic will tell you they are against abortion, but privately, many’d likely tell you they don’t mind barrier forms of birth control if it prevents an actual conception from starting in the first place and having to HAVE an abortion. Now that’s nowhere near what the Church officially teaches, but Rome is across an ocean, and people have been looking for loopholes in Church laws since before the beginning of the church.
Finally, you can’t forget that, though Pentecostals in their ranks are coming up hard, the overall major religion of Hispanics is likely to be and stay Catholic for some time yet, and as they grow into an ever-larger portion of the population, candidates will factor all of this in, I’m sure.
Comment by Some Guy Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:28 pm
I do believe that the Eastern Orthodox Church considers itself to be the “Orthodox Catholic Church.”
I was just trying to point out that others may lay claim to the term “Catholic.”
But, hey, what do I know? I’m a follower of good ‘ol Martin Luther. We’re known for causing trouble with the Roman Catholic Church.
Comment by Pot calling kettle Tuesday, Oct 27, 09 @ 10:48 pm
Much more important than any religious lable is the quality of the person. Our state, like our city, our counties and our country is in great trouble. Luckily we have a truly upright, driven and superb candidate running for Gov.of IL Take the time to learn about him. That candidate is Adam Andrzejewski.
Comment by jaded voter Wednesday, Oct 28, 09 @ 2:28 am