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* I won’t be watching because I don’t live in Chicago, but if you’re in the area tune in to WTTW’s US Senate debate at 7 o’clock tonight and help us out in comments by live-blogging, please. Thanks. We’ve done this before and it’s been great.
* Also, the Pollster Who Shall Not Be Named released another poll today on the US Senate race. Once again, he didn’t include all the names. And “Some other candidate” received 5 percent of the vote. Go hear and read it yourself if you want.
* From the toplines, President Obama’s approval rating here is now 51 percent. Disapproval is at 48 percent. That’s about where Raz has always had him here. The Democrats have just a six-point advantage on the congressional generic ballot, which isn’t nearly enough…
* Thinking about this year’s elections - suppose that your vote determined which political party wins control of the U.S. Senate this year. Would you vote for the Republican Party or the Democratic Party?
43% The Republican party
49% The Democratic party
8% Not sure
And then there’s this…
* Do you consider yourself part of the Tea Party Movement?
22% Yes
63% No
15% Not sure
And…
* A proposal has been made to repeal the health care bill and stop it from going into effect. Do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal to repeal the health care bill?
43% Strongly favor
11% Somewhat favor
9% Somewhat oppose
32% Strongly oppose
5% Not sure
Anyway, thanks again in advance for any live-commenting you can do.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 6:10 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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Capt Fax
Grab some more silly sauce we bet CommandoMakeItUp will show up on CSPAN
We will stick with the WS Game 1
Comment by CircularFiringSquad Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 6:26 pm
It seems pretty awful that for a 6 year term voters outside of chicago have exactly one debate to watch and that debate was on sunday morning when a lot of people are out doing errands, at synagogue or at church.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 6:28 pm
Ponce is the host so I expect a much tougher q and a. Carol Marin is doing the governors race and she is much more long winded and process oriented questioner. Ponce tends to bite more with his questions so I expect stuff to kirk about his flipflopiness, issues with the conservative base, why his resume was embellished, why a career dc gop guy can claim the change mantle, scotus’s judges he’d support, bush.
With Alexi I expect him to ask about maturity, naming things he’d cut, the bank failure, brightstart, economic treason comments.
I think the burden is clearly on alexi in this debate as most of the recent surveys have shown kirk in command of the race. It’s going to be harder for alexi to nail kirk on something to change the race because kirk is much more polished. The debate is also in front of the city club-a wonkier bunch where kirk feels more comfortable. Ponce tends to do one word answers on questions which could hurt kirk especially if they go to social issues or issues which forces kirk to choose directly between obama and the tea party.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 6:45 pm
1st question what can you say nice about the other guy?
kirk thanks alexi for calling him when his dad died.
alexi slams kirk.
question 2, mystery money
kirk talks up support for mccain feingold.
alexi responds by attacking kirk. 2 questions 2 attacks on kirk.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:05 pm
question 3. back to campaign finance.
kirk-offering solutions calling for disclosure
alexi slams kirk for disclose act.
question 4. broadway bank-what did you know.
alexi-alexi slams kirk, rove. 4 questions, 4 attacks on kirk in 4 questions. alexi invoking daddy.
question 5, what did you know about the bank and your contribution?
alexi-nothing i’ve said is inconsistent. tries to shrug this off. he’s taking both sides of the issue. what a guy.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:07 pm
ponce hitting him back on what he knew about jaws.
(alexi has different hair)
ponce question 7-do all banks do this?
Kirk has his list of mobsters as seen on meet the press. says you dont have to research this, they were on google.
kirk slaps alexi for the first time. (alexi said in the previous
Alexi hits back-alexi calls guilt by association.
Alexi brings own list-invokes levine,
(this is getting good0
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:10 pm
alexi-you took money from criminals.
alexi-hits kirk congressional record, says hes going positive rest of the campaign.
ponce asks kirk question about alexi
kirk-says alexi is a paul harvey episode-now you learn the rest of the story
talking up nick hertgen
this is getting brutal, they are fighting about who gets to talk.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:11 pm
I guess I’ll update the first 15 minutes or so I can watch…
So it begins with a question about what one admires about the other despite how negative the campaign has been.
-Kirk says he appreciated Alexi offering condolences with his step-father died.
-Alexi says Kirk is a hard worker and one who cares even though he disagrees with his policies.
Secret money in campaigns:
-I broke with my party on this saying there should be disclosure. Supported BCRA and think further reforms are needed.
Issue of transparency:
-Citizens United was terrible. Kirk doesn’t support disclosure. $10M in the race from secret donors destroying process.
-Kirk says he opposed DISCLOSE ACT because it took away corporations speech without restricting unions.
Alexi, what did you know about Jaws?
-Cong. Kirk and Karl Rove have said things that are wrong and offensive. He’s proud of the business his father started and no one accused his business of doing anything illegal, illicit or improper. Alexi thinks this is cherrypicking a few individuals he wishes he’d never done business with but the bank helped thousands achieve American dream.
But what about your ever-changing story, Alexi?
“Nothing I’ve said has been inconsistent at all.” LOL.
Did you know the guys were facing prison sentences at time you lent them money?
-Alexi you look at credit worthiness when running the business. Lots of bigger banks have done business with a lot more people like this. Moderator asks Chase would have hundreds of felons lent money to?
Kirk has list of loans to convicted mobsters and felons. Cites Chicago Tribune reports. Cites Joel (or Joe? those guys are pretty different) Klein TIME article saying he’d never seen anybody run for office saying he didn’t know things like this.
Alexi complains about negativity again and brings his own list of guilt association and talks about all the money that Kirk took money from all the people he took money from that were criminals - Levine, Hurtgen, at least three others.
Kirk says he refunds these contributions almost a decade ago. Brings up Rezko. Alexi says Kirk took money from Rezko. Back and forth on bank stuff.
Alexi is back to saying Kirk is attacking his father’s business and saying he will do positive all the way through while Kirk has decided to pull all positive ads.
This is going really fast so posting now…
Now we’re on to exaggerations by Kirk.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:13 pm
kirk-says you can’t compare, unloads on alexi for all bank stuff, rezko invoked twice.
kirk now unloading on brightstart, invoking alexi’s lack of resume.
alexi-you are hitting my dad. alexi says this is whats wrong with politics. whining about how there’s no debate about the economy or kirk’s record.
alexi-i’ve stopped negative ads, now going all positive rest of the way
ponce-hitting kirk on dc record and why he embellshed (shore predicted this)
kirk-I made mistakes.
ponce-but why have you exaggerated everything-boating accident,teachers, awards?
kirk-I am being scrutinized, this is appropriate. but I have a record, Alexi does not. I would die for the country. I made a mistakes. But the difference is I took responsibility, he did not, he always blames someone else.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:15 pm
Why lie about your record?
“I was careless. I misstated part of my record.” Naval service blah blah blah.
But WHY? You claimed you got enemy fire?
Yeah, but I have a military record. My opponent is running on a military record… MY MILITARY RECORD. He hasn’t served a day in the military in his life. I WOULD DIE FOR THIS COUNTRY. Kirk seems really upset here.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:15 pm
alexi-calls kirk a liar, rolls out edit board comments-calls kirk a flip flopper (shore predicted this) brings up dadt, cap and tax. we dont know where kirk stands.
explaining brightstart.
accuses kirk of owned by special interests.
kirk-I’ve got 2/3 of newspaper endorsements, hits alexi on maturity. reccuring theme tonight with him is hitting alexi on “learn rest of story after the fact. Hits alexi on brightstart losses uses word chutzpah (appealing to jewish voters).
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:19 pm
Alan Keyes vote total in 2004 - 29%.
Illinois Tea Party members - 22%
If they were somewhat centrist at 22% they’d be an enormously powerful swing demographic, but considering how right wing they are they’re just a fringe group with less electoral strength than Alan Keyes.
Comment by The Captain Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:20 pm
Alexi brings up Sun-Times, Post-Dispatch, Rockford Register-Star, Southern Illinoisan endorsements and says he received them because people don’t know where Kirk stands but they know where Alexi stands because he always tell the truth.
Jumping into Bright Star.
Alexi says he went after Oppenheimer and they were first state to notice problem and got a record settlement because of the rogue fund manager. This is the only fund in the country where people got money back.
Kirk responds that well Kirk got 2/3 of endorsements and quotes Trib endorsement.
Back and forth on Bright Start.
“In 2009, Congressman, didn’t you blame Oppenheimer?”
Kirk says after he got Freedom of Information Act request he found out rest.
Alexi: Kirk is changing his tune again. Karl Rove. Blah Blah.
Alexi: Would vote against Omnibus Spending Bill. He thinks President would vetoed bill. He’s in favor of HCR but should have had laser-like focus on jobs. He would have voted for HCR but would have focused on economy.
Kirk is asked about stimulus. Complains about spending we’re leaving for kids. Should have had lock and dams project.
Alexi brings up Kirk’s votes for the Bush budgets. He only voted against spending for party politics when Obama got in office. Talks about what stimulus project contained. Kirk complains about borrowing but he wants a tax cut for top 2 percent costing 700 billion to deficit.
Kirk gets a chart and says borrowing/spending goes down when you have gridlock. Talks about bipartisan majority…
Sorry, y’all I gotta go…
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:26 pm
kirk-hits alexi again on “his only 2nd job”. Alexi is clearly on defense here.
Alexi-back to rove and tv. now ripping kirk for making tv unaffordable
ponce-alexi where do you against obama?
alexi-I would have voted against stimulus. We should have had focus on jobs.
ponce-would you have voted against it?
alexi -for it
ponce-has stimulus failed?
kirk-you spend a trillion you’ll get something. hitting it on debt. talking about foreign creditors. (this is kirk turf). notes the fact that mississipi dam didnt get done-showing depth. hits social spending.
alexi-hits kirk on voting for bush budgets. accuses kirk of doubling national debt. defending obama. kirk playing party politics. hits kirk on avoiding middle class families. hits kirk for wanting tax cuts for wealthy (not going to win winnetka with that)
Kirk-shows deficit chart. Kirk 2 charts so far, 1 chart for alexi. invokes bernacke-showing depth. c
alexi-hitting kirk/bush record on taxes for wealthy. slamming bush tax cuts for destroying middle class.
(alexi has a lincoln park frat boy accent this is unbearable)
ponce-did stimulus prevent recession?
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:26 pm
kirk-stimulus didn’t avert recession, my tarp did. slams alexi.
alexi reacts
kirk calls him flip flopper
alexi trashes him, trashes him as owned by corporate special interests.
kirk-are you for or against tarp?
alexi-I support it.
kirk-hits immaturity (as shore predicted), goes back to tribune editorial board interviews
kirk-I am calling you a flip flopper.
kirk-you flip flopped on nafta
alexi is interrupting kirk on everything
(they are ready to punch each other)
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:28 pm
yes or no
gay marriage
kirk no
alexi yes
ponce-dadt-do you support kirk?
kirk-we should wait for december-quotes gates, invokes pelosi for the first time. notes positions of navy. I will read the study. notes military works in 24 time zones (shows depth).
ponce-do you know gays in the military?
kirk-I don’t-not openly.
ponce-would you have a problem serving with gays?
kirk-we need to do this deliberately (isn’t answering the questions). I dont know where the administration is
alexi-I support it. I find it offensive 14,000 americans have been kicked out. panders to gays.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:32 pm
alexi-slams kirk. iraq took our eyes off the prize. hits kirk for voting against the surge that worked.
kirk-I didnt vote to defund the surge. Kirk-I am a better player going forward. invokes iran-(this will play well with jewish voters). hits the un on iran. gets into busheer reactor-
ponce-israel settlements?
alexi-we shouldnt be zoning administrator (not the answer jews want). I support israel. Alexi goes into talk radio talking points on iran (he is going to get his butt kicked on this issue).
Kirk-Gives council on foreignn relations level answer-slams un, sounding like a senator.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:40 pm
It’s interesting reading the live blog and thinking to myself, who is really watching a debate on Channel 11?
This isn’t a dig; it’s a comment on the target audience of this debate. I’m guessing it’s overly white, middle to upper middle class, “lakefront liberal”-types, and probably likely to vote. I’m thinking this is Kirk’s sweet spot.
Comment by Logical Thinker Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:44 pm
kirk-cut off iranian gas. notes madeline albright.
alexi-we agree
kirk-we need to focus on irans not zoning issues.
Kirk-israel talking points.
(this debate is going very very well for kirk, the focus has been on foreign relations and the bank)
(alexi basically gave in on that issue and complimented kirk which is a big deal becase
ponce-accomplishments?
alexi-hartmarx
kirk-I saved the lovell va. Beating british petroleum, getting israel the xband radar, thoguthfult independent leadership.
ponce-you’ve never written legislation.
kirk-true, because I’ve been on the appropriations committee which impacts spending. I was a key mover. I’m a leader not a partisan. I made it happen.
(alexi’s attacks have all but stopped).
ponce-are you too immature?
alexi-proud of job we’ve done.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:45 pm
Al though this is ugly for both of them, Kirk clearly sounds more like a Senator then Alexi, at least tonight anyway.
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:45 pm
yeah, he made it happen — congress listened to mark kirk LIE about weapons of mass destruction in iraq.
he hasn’t made a thing happen since. no one trusts the guy…
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:45 pm
Update*** after the foreign policy exchange, Kirk DEFINITELY sounds more like a Senator. It is pretty huge when the opposition, this late in the game, is complimenting you. That exchange helped Kirk big time!
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:47 pm
once again, kirk lies about his ability to influence other members of congress. kirk will do exactly what mitch mcconnell tells him to do. period.
Comment by bored now Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:48 pm
alexi-I’m not from dc. hits kirk for the first time in 8 minutes. at the beginning of debate he was hitting kirk every 8 seconds.
kirk-hitting alexi. alexi hit his own party. I’m a moderate, (this will play well with independents), I’m bipartisan, I always work with democrats. I’m worried about results. we need more centrists. Kirk goes into stump speech.
alexi back to interrupting kirk.
kirk-trashing alexi.
alexi on defense over taxcuts.
alexi whining about kirk attacks
kirk-look at alexi’s record, he wants lots of tax increases. I want to cut spending. goes into spending cuts. Kirk is on a roll, ponce isn’t interrupting him and in the last 20 minutes he’s basically had free shots at his bread and butter talking points with specifics.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:50 pm
Yeh for Alexi, he just announced he is going positive from now on. He just got my vote. I am so sick of the negative ads. It’s about time someone did it.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:53 pm
ponce-why do people hate the president?
kirk-people shouldnt hate him. people should respect him.
alexi-its bad. lets start talking about ideas. lets grow jobs. mentions energy for the first time. (as he offers none)
ponce-is your party nuts, kirk?
kirk-there are nuts all over. I’m a moderate. goes into moderate record (wins another question).
ponce-do you like tea party?
kirk-we have support from everyone. goes back to talking points. (alexi not cutting him off anymore).
ponce-alexi is your party nuts?
alexi-hits kirk on decisions he made for bush. goes through kirk votes. calls kirk a flip flopper right winger. hits kirk on votes against women, ect.
kirk-back to talking up his moderate street cred. hits ledbetter thing with trial lawyers slam. calls it denigrating women.
credits rolling debate over.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:54 pm
paul green pictured.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:55 pm
Al though I’m very happy with how Kirk has done tonight… Ponce has to be one of the worst moderators I have ever seen. He basically has let Kirk run a one man show. RICH… make a note of that.
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:55 pm
Did Alexi really just say he wouldn’t run any more negative ads? Wow….he should have at least challenged Kirk to agree to do the same.
Unilateral disarmament usually ends in disaster.
Comment by Raising Kane Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:55 pm
“Unilateral disarmament usually ends in disaster.”
Agreed. I was waiting for Alexi to bait Kirk. Why didn’t he? It would have been a perfect opportunity to entrap him.
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:57 pm
It was pretty clear tonight why Alexi didn’t want more debates. Ouch.
Comment by ANON Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 7:57 pm
Summary-Alexi went after kirk very very very hard at the beginning with a stifling attack which at points had kirk on the run. The attack died away and alexi was put on the defensive first about his bank and maturity. As the debate moved to foreign policy the bottom completely fell out for alexi as he seemed to sit and watch in awe as kirk blew him away with the sort of answers you hear at the council on foreign relations or senate foreign relations committee. Alexi who 20 minutes earlier was hitting kirk on everythig basically ended up agreeing with kirk and the attack went dead silent.
From there it was basically a kirk show as kirk turned the rest of the questions into talking point answers about his centrism and knocking both parties. Alexi’s energetic full court press became the kind of defense you see with a team down 20 points worn out.
There’s no question the debate went to kirk. Alexi had 20 months to beef up answers and learn how to talk and sound like a guy who could be senator in 2 weeks and didn’t. He was prepared to attack kirk with msnbc talking points but on the issues he was god awful and if he loses this race with independents he can look back and say this is why.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:02 pm
This is a good strategy for Alexi. People are really sick of negative ads right now. He should do a commercial saying no more negative and then when his opponent keeps going there-Kirk looks like a low roader.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:08 pm
On behalf of Rich, I would like to thank all of you for your updates. Shore, Rish owes you a drink or two.
(Of course, I really don’t speak for Rich)
Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:09 pm
If Democrats lose this seat, I think they’ll look back and see that a fight between hoffman and kirk would have been a lot tougher with hoffman not having to answer questions about a bank and being able to show a lot more depth than alexi did. Hoffman also worked for a conservative oklahoma senator which would have made it more difficult for kirk to claim the center which he clearly has in this race and which I think he’ll own.
The bank and alexi’s maturity were much more of a factor in this debate than was kirk’s resume and his record in dc. which I think is a major net loss for alexi.
As in the previous debate if you’re unemployed or hurting right now, you were sorely dissapointed as there was much more focus on jewish settlers than there was on why Illinois economy is in the desperate place that it is.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:11 pm
This race is lost and Alexi knows it. Public polls show Kirk with a widening lead; Giannoulias must have internals showing a much wider gap, hence the aggressive negative stance in tonight’s debate. Too little, too late.
Comment by Bluejay Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:21 pm
“As in the previous debate if you’re unemployed or hurting right now, you were sorely dissapointed as there was much more focus on jewish settlers than there was on why Illinois economy is in the desperate place that it is.”
Couldn’t agree more on that one. None of the debates really focused on that, to be honest.
Also, like you, Hoffman would have been a lot more formidable. Aside from being without scandal, you could make A LOT easier of a case for him as a Dem moderate then Alexi. In addition, there is the “depth” factor. Kirk was all about depth tonight ( I felt this was his strongest showing in that department out of the 3 debates, while this was Alexi’s weakest). Hoffman would have been able to exhibit a great deal more “wonkishness.”
Just to get your feedback… what were your thoughts on Ponce tonight, Shore?
Al though I’m happy about Ponces presence (or lack therof) since it benefited Kirk, Ponce truly let Kirk go on a one man rant for about fifteen minutes, and really did not even give Alexi the ability for any sort of proper counter-response 2/3 of the time.
Thoughts?
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:22 pm
Bluejay, you might be right about the race being lost but the guy got my vote tonight. Oh, and BTW 95% of the people haven’t voted yet.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:25 pm
I’ll bet Quinn announces no more negative tomorrow at the debate on WTTW.
Comment by Phineas J. Whoopee Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:27 pm
Is Kirk actually saying he made “mistakes” regarding his tall tales, but was taking “responsibility?” I thought it was a faulty memory, famously, he “misremembered it wrong.”
Perhaps I’m parsing words, but “mistakes” could be interpreted that he was wrong to be telling tales. That’s different than a faulty memory.
Plus, do you have to take “responsibility” for a faulty memory?
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:33 pm
“Is Kirk actually saying he made “mistakes” regarding his tall tales, but was taking “responsibility?” I thought it was a faulty memory, famously, he “misremembered it wrong.”
If that is all you’re taking away from the debate, Kirk must have done better then I thought. lol.
Seriously though… I understand what you’re saying. Muchado about nothing at this point since even in the previous debate he mentioned this as a “mistake”, but I understand how/why your hyper-analyzing the wording.
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:39 pm
I just watched the first 15 minutes and I thought that Alexi was much more mature and senatorial than Kirk. Kirk reminded me of a spoiled little kid trying to bully a bigger, better candidate. Regardless of the question, Kirk continually recited his negative ad talking points and refused to engage in any serious policy discussions. I guess if you believe that “winning” a debate means you land more cheap shots than the other guy, Kirk comes out on top. To anyone else Kirk showed hinself to be the loser that he is.
It is really interesting to read Shore’s comments while I replay the debate. Shore obviously was watching some other debate. I don’t think Kirk helped himself with anyone who hasn’t already made up their mind.
Oh well, back to this useless phone bank.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:41 pm
Chris, I was following comments. I was looking for some insight from those who were watching.
I’m flipping among the Series, the Bulls and the Hawks games. A Kirk/Alexi debate falls somewhere between “Swamp People” and the “700 Club” in my viewing priorities.
5-2 Giants in the 5th and looks like Washington is going to yank Lee.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:47 pm
“5-2 Giants in the 5th and looks like Washington is going to yank Lee.”
Hope this isn’t a sign of things to come. Being a Cubs fan I have a soft spot for lovable loserish teams that cant seem to win the big one. I expected a better showing tonight from TX.
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:50 pm
A few observations:
Good that Alexi claims he’ll go positive on ads here on out. Would have been more credible if he had not interrupted so much and not been quite so cranky during the debate, though. (The old I’ll go on a diet tomorrow after I finish this tub of ice cream sort of approach.) It’ll be interesting to see what the Kirk campaign does in this regard.
Even after all the debates and editorial board meetings and several opportunities again this evening, Alexi has still not been able to find and articulate even one little teensy tiny thing he regrets, or learned, or would have done differently in his career. He continues to look very arrogant and immature (or clueless) to publicly take this stance. Every person who has ever interviewed for a job knows that a little humility and an admission that you’ve learned something along life’s highway impresses the interviewer and demonstrates a modicum of self-awareness. Also, to questions about his time and decisions as Sr. loan officer Alexi pooh pooed it as an unfair attack on “my father’s bank”. Again, kind of an immature response I thought.
Surprised Phil did not ask AG about his comment that Kirk had committed treason. I imagine Kirk had a good answer prepared for that and I would have liked to have heard it.
It’s hard to envision any undecided voter who actually watched tonight’s debate to still be undecided now.
Comment by Responsa Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:51 pm
Shore, thank you for your excellent live-blogging. I watched the debate tonight on dvr-delay, and just now read through all of your comments.
This won’t surprise you, but I saw the debate differently. I saw Alexi calmly and reasonably take Kirk down on several points. Shore used the word “attack” to describe some of it, and arguably that’s an acceptable description, but Alexi kept returning to the “fundamental differences” between the two, and I thought Alexi’s line of “attack” was extremely effective. For me, it isn’t that Kirk lies, it’s that he is wrong on really important issues. I think calling him a “liar” is an attack, but pointing out where they differ on important issues is smart debate tactics.
This was, by far, the best performance I’ve seen from Giannoulias in 2010, primary included. I am absolutley biased against Kirk, full disclosure and all, but I’ve also not been a fan of Giannoulias. Until tonight. Good job kid.
And sincerely Shore, despite our political differences, I really do appreciate the effort it took to share this debate with everyone at Capitol Fax. Thanks, you did a good job too.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 8:57 pm
Obviously I am one sided and with phone, and trying to type at the same time I’m watching it gets hard. some of the stuff though was not in dispute-they literally almost punched each other at one point and kirk got into a scrum on the house floor in 05. if you’re up late. wttw usually posts its nightly shows on at around 11 or before their intern goes to bed. wttw.com.
I think ponce does the best job of shaw/thomas/marin/brackett that do debates. He is not formulaic, and asks the sort of questions that candidates don’t anticipate like asking kirk if he’d served with gays, which i’m sure was not part of debate prep. Also unlike shaw he does not have a conflict of interest he arrogantly denies.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:06 pm
Sorry, I see Alexi’s statement about not running any negative ads from here on out as a hollow promise. He can say that from now until election day. That doesn’t mean the Union$ that $upport him won’t continue to run negative ads, send negative mailings, and keep calling my house to tell me that I should vote for him.
Comment by Concerned Voter Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:08 pm
And thanks to those who reported on the debate, it was interesting to see the different views of it.
Comment by Concerned Voter Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:10 pm
Actually Ben Smith from Politico tweeted how funny it was when Alexi said he was going “positive” from this point out, yet in the same sentence was accusing Kirk of accepting campaign contributions from felons 10 years ago (before they became convicted felons).
Even NBC 5 Chicago, on their “Ward Room,” site said Alexi’s positive promise was “confusing.”
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:15 pm
Respect to shore for taking the time to live-blog this. Caught the second half live (watching the whole thing on dvr) and have to ask: has Phil Ponce always been like this? Or am I just “misrembering” him as a much better moderator than he’s shown so far this week?
Comment by S Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:17 pm
“Did Alexi really just say he wouldn’t run any more negative ads? Wow….he should have at least challenged Kirk to agree to do the same.”
Ads are cut, he’s only positive for the next 6 days. Was a campaign decision. Why not just come out and say it? Don’t need Kirk if you’ve decided to do things unilaterally… you announce unilaterally!
Comment by Nick42 Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:29 pm
Ponce let the players play. The only thing I would say about him was that he really let kirk take the last 1/3 of the debate and use the questions for planks of his stump speech. Alexi’s energy level really fell out in the foreign policy questions and if you’ve ever seen a high school or college basketball game sometimes you see teams that full court press and exert so much energy at the beginning that they almost wear themselves out. that seemed to happen to him.
Comment by shore Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:35 pm
47th ward, were you disappointed in Alexi at all that he didn’t have an answer about the Ginny Thomas being too involved in politics question? He said he wasn’t familiar with that.
Here I thought Kirk was petulant and scolding with his how dare you question me because I served and criticizing Alexi’s maturity, but then I was bummed when that question came up and Alexi wasn’t abreast of it, despite him throwing out Citizens United earlier in the debate. I realize it’s not a super pressing issue, and not something Alexi as a senator would have any control over, but it was something Kirk did have an answer for.
Granted I had to run and missed the rest of the debate so I am just reading up what else went down.
Comment by hisgirlfriday Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:43 pm
Shore, I thought Kirk’s best line tonight was directed at Ponce, when Kirk asked him if he was going to, you know, moderate the debate. I spit beer on my floor at that one. Honestly, I was expecting you to say Kirk had to debate Giannoulias AND Ponce tonight. While Ponce was tough on both, it seemed like he was putting his thumb on the scale just a tiny bit in Giannoulias’ favor.
When Ponce asked Kirk if he knew any gay service members, I almost fell out of my seat. Yet Kirk’s answer was perfect, and he didn’t lose his cool. He almost seemed to transcend the question and rise above it.
That was probably one of Kirk’s better moments tonight. Handlng that particular question and not going-off on Ponce. I imagine Kirk had some choice words about Ponce on the ride home tonight, and I don’t blame him for being mad.
“Six more days” was also a nice moment in tonight’s debate.
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:49 pm
Belatedly, thanks, Shore, and well done.
For my contribution, Bulls ran out of gas and lost to the Okies. Hawks up 2-1 with five minutes left in the third and Giants lead 8-4 in the top of the eighth.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:50 pm
hisgirl,
Like Giannoulias, I really don’t care what Ginni Thomas thinks. I was glad he didn’t take the bait. It’s a distraction from the real issues in this race (future Supreme Court confirmation battles notwithstanding).
Comment by 47th Ward Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 9:52 pm
From Ben Smith at Politico:
“Giannoulias spent much of the debate, however, seeking a procedural moral high ground for removing his attack ads from the airwaves, though he made no apology for another act of tactical hardball, mailers encouraging conservative Republicans to support a Tea Party-backed Libertarian candidate.”
“After [Alexi] proudly announced for the fifth time that he was pulling his negative ads from the airwaves, a reporter asked Giannoulias whether his new stance applied to the ads of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, which continues to pound Kirk.
“I hope they do but I can’t control an independent expenditure,” he said.”
So much for “positive.”
Comment by ChrisChicago82-Independent Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 10:04 pm
Alexi taking his negative ads off air??? I saw one 5 minutes ago!!!!
Comment by Joe Blow Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 10:55 pm
That was a DSCC ad.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Oct 27, 10 @ 11:52 pm
Bottom line, Kirk creeps me out.
Comment by just sayin' Thursday, Oct 28, 10 @ 12:15 am