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* Giannoulias mentioned this yesterday, but asked that I not put it on the blog, then the campaign gave the story to Sweet…
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Tuesday continued his election day tradition of playing basketball—only to get battered after accidently getting knocked to the ground by Alexi Giannoulias, the Illinois State Treasurer.
Obama chief strategist David Axelrod—who also played in the pick-up game—said Obama was hit in the chest when he got in the way of the shoulder of Giannoulias as the former pro player drove to the basket.
Giannoulias “bashed the ribs of the next president of the United States,” Axelrod said. Obama “was knocked down.”
Though Obama was bruised, Axelrod said he did not see a doctor.
Apparently, Giannoulias drove hard to a hole and Obama moved in and stood his ground. Slam! Obama went down hard and the Secret Service apparently freaked out and rushed to his aid.
Anyway, we haven’t done this in a while, so consider this is a presidential campaign open thread. What are your thoughts on last night’s primaries and the future?
…Adding… Patterson has more on the basketball game.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 9:35 am
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How does she win at this point?
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 9:37 am
If you are a person who believes in the rule of law, and that the person with the most votes wins, this thing has been done for some time. Her arrogance is astounding. Barack will be the next president and we will be much better off.
On a side note, as a democrat, I never thought that something would make me disgusted by Bill Clinton. I stood by him proudly in the 90’s, but his actions on the campaign trail for his wife has turned me off of him forever. I now almost regret supporting him after seeing the levels to which he will stoop. Barack will be the first REAL black president and he will be the standard bearer for the party nationally. I’m proud to say that I’ve supported him from the beginning.
Comment by Anon Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 9:46 am
A very good analogy…if he gets up and plays on…maybe he can take this into the oval office…when he gets knocked down as the President…get up and continue playing. Learn from your moves and mistakes and get better. We seem to forget that these days. Talent will only take you so far…your inner circle will only take you so far. Your character will get you the rest of the way there. AND, remember where you came from and who you represent. The best and the worst of ALL the people in this land. I just wish I knew more about this person.
Comment by Siyotanka Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 9:53 am
Hillary’s been like like Jake Lamotta, she won’t go down. From New Hampshire, to Texas and Ohio, to Pennsylvania, she kept getting just barely enough to stay on her feet. Obama has demonstrated a disturbing lack of knockout punch.
But last night was it. You could hear it in Hillary’s voice and see it in Bill and Chelsea’s faces.
The superdelegates are going to break big for Obama starting today. They want it done so they can concentrate on destroying the GOP in the congressional races. From matchups to retirements to the economy and the wars, everything is breaking in the Dems favor and they have a historic opportunity to pile up big gains.
There’s a report today on Politico that Cole, the head of the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee, told members yesterday that it’s everyone for themselves. The GOP has no money to save them and the Dems are loaded with cash (what strange times we live in).
Hillary will now want the Veep spot. I don’t know what Obama thinks about that, but if he doesnt’ want her on the ticket, he will have to demonstrate some crafty diplomacy. His support in the future for Senate Majority Leader or a Supreme Court nomination come to mind as offers she might not be able to refuse. I don’t think she would take a cabinet position other than Secretary of State of Attorney General, and I doubt that he would offer either.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 9:57 am
His novelty has worn off. His halo has fallen. His Philadelphia speech now looks ridiculous. He lost his mojo. Thanks to North Dakota, Idaho, and a hugely flawed nominating process, he will be nominated in Denver.
So voters will need to choose between a charming part-time US Senator with little to no record and a quiet old war hero with 25 years of bipartisan work in the US Senate. Between audacity and leadership. Between Lyndon Johnson and Theodore Roosevelt.
One has to wonder, after losing New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, New Jersey, and Indiana how Barack Obama won his senate seat. If he had a real challenger in 2004, would he have won? Instead he watched the Chicago Tribune issue FOIA demands to open his challenger’s divorce proceedings and air the dirty laundry - knocking them out of the race. He didn’t have to run.
Now he does. He isn’t ready. He needed to have waited until 2012.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 9:58 am
Barack, please dont make her your Veep. Do you want Bill lingering around your desk, looking over your shoulder? That would drive most people nuts!
Comment by Anon Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:00 am
I sincerely hope that Obama does NOT pick Hillbill as VP. I would ruin his message of change and would make him no better than every other politician - say what the people want to hear but then do whatever you have to do to win. He needs to pick a Wesley Clark/Jim Webb-type.
On a lighter note, the IN returns last night were incredibly exciting. I don’t think I’ve ever sat for such a long period and actually watched MSNBC.
Comment by Bill S. Preston, Esq. Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:06 am
Can we get some video of Obama playing hoops? I want to see if he is as good as we keep hearing. Plus, da Bulls could use the help.
Comment by John Paxson Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:09 am
“If you are a person who believes in the rule of law..”
Too funny.
The guys in City Hall and the Governor also believe in the “rule of law”.
In politics, you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do.
That’s why she’s still in there.
Ironic how the Obama supporters want her to drop out before he actually counts them up at the convention.
Is there any other type of contest, sporting or otherwise, where the supporters of the supposed winnner would be urging his/her opponent to drop out.
Good thing for them that the Cubs’ opponents didn’t drop out because the Cubs had so many more runs and they were for sure going to the World Series at last.
Comment by True Observer Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:10 am
Wow Alexi, this guy is your political godfather and this is how you treat him? Of course, your family did bankroll him early on.
Perhaps they should not disenfrancise (or let them do it to themselves) FL and MI. Let every voice be heard! COunt every vote!
Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:18 am
As I wrote elsewhere:
I am not convinced that Florida and Michigan delegates are “lost.”
I am not convinced that a Superdelegate showdown won’t happen.
I am not convinced that Sen. Clinton will lie down without a fight at the convention.
The only way this nomination has been secured at this point is if Sen. Clinton sees no way possible for her to win. There are still too many question marks out there for her to concede at this point.
In addition, do we really want a president, nearing age 50, who still hasn’t learned the charge call is never, EVER made in a pick-up game?
Comment by Fan of the Game Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:18 am
I have said the CLintons will steal this from him at any cost. As I saw the Lake COunty results come in, I figured maybe Obama has some Chciago politician in him after all. I clearly thought they would count until he won.
Comment by Wumpus Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:24 am
Indiana was exciting. It’s a shame that in every primary season we don’t have as exciting of a contest where every primary/caucus matters. I mean, jeez, how many people even knew there were delegates from Guam, or that Puerto Rico had more delegates than some of the states?
I see no reason, at this late date, to stop the process. We only have 6 contests to go, and while, yes, the math isn’t Clinton’s friend, at this point, she may as well run on and at least raise enough $$ to pay off her loans. The Supers can be waiting in the wings to call a foul if she does anything egregious in the coming month.
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:25 am
== But last night was it. You could hear it in Hillary’s voice and see it in Bill and Chelsea’s faces. ==
Very True, Wordslinger..
..The difference between Barack’s speech and Hilary’s was night and day. The crowd behind Hilary looked defeated no matter how much they tried to put on a happy face.
I also found it extremly interesting that Lake county in Indiana was the last county to report. They said that it was because they wanted to count all the absentee votes before they released any data. No other county in the state did that.
Since everything hinged on that one county it effectively made Hilary wait, and wait, and wait, to give her election night speech. By the time she took the stage it was 10:45 eastern time.
I’m not one for conspiracy theroys, but it seemed intentional to me, and Lake county is effectively a suburb of Chicago, I wonder…
In short, break out the A1 sauce, Hill and Bill are cooked.
Comment by Speaking At Will Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:26 am
I’ll never say anything bad about Hoosiers again…..well, maybe not never but for a long time.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:33 am
Bill and Chelly looked deflated and defeated because they know that Hill is going to keep pumping their own money into her losing effort. The longer she stays in, the more it costs. That’s a lot of speaking engagements/books for Bill and Chelly sees her inheritance being frittered away. It is all about the money.
Give it up Hill before you all go broke.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:37 am
Does anyone else find it ironic that when the presidential race is handed to the Democrats well in advance of November that they fumble so badly? I think McCain will win because Obama and Clinton will render each other useless by then.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:37 am
VMAN, in one breath you say Obama is a part-time senator, and in the next you liken him to Lyndon Johnson? Huh?
Lyndon Johnson was a lot of things, and he evokes enormous passions, positive and negative, on all points of the political spectrum, but one thing no one can deny: To borrow the phrase from Caro, he was Master of the Senate — a giant. Had a little bit of experience, too, before he became president.
Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:38 am
wordslinger, Obama usually gets VM all discombobulated. lol
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:43 am
Both Rush Limbaugh and John McCain are glad Hillary is in the Race. McCain is doing better in the polls thanks to her refusal to acknowledge she has lost.
Her whole campaign is that the Elite superdelegates should take the election from the person with the lead in delegates, popular vote and States won. The oddity of course is she is relying on elitism to propel her to the position while calling Obama elitist. HRC represents whats wrong with politics, the idea that she is somehow entitled. NC was a huge loss for her. It way surpassed her Penn victory.
HRC can not beat Obama, and whatever questionable momentum she had from penn is long gone. She needs to stop thinking of the pwoer she wants and for once make a decision that actually is designed to help democrats and the people, she needs to ends this now. Obama has shown that most people do not care about wright, and see that a tax holiday is a feel good moment but not a solution to the gas problem.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:52 am
Speaking At Will, Wumpus and others, the Lake County GOP Chairman denied that the Dems were pulling a fast one there.
It’s always fun to speculate about games, but unless the Lake County GOP is completely owned by the Dems (which, admitedly, has happened in Cook, and I know nothing about Gary politics), then the suspicions are just black helicopter fantasies.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:54 am
Obama has won it…time for the Dems to come together–or not after reading the Russ Stewart piece–I wouldn’t mind a McCain presidency to put away the Republicans for a nice long time, but can’t accept the continued loss of life in Iraq and further disintegration of the American economy and infrastructure…
Comment by Loop Lady Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 10:58 am
Not at all surprised that Sweet got the column about the basketball game — it’s very important to reward the reporters who are in the bag for you.
Comment by Marco Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:02 am
Bill is right. She won’t bow out without a fix for her canpaign debt.
Comment by Stacker of Wheat Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:07 am
“Her whole campaign is that the Elite superdelegates should take the election from the person with the lead in delegates, popular vote and States won.”
You’re getting carried away with the basketball meme.
We’re not at the Elite 8 yet.
We’re at the second round and still have Sweet Sixteen to look forward to.
Comment by True Observer Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:13 am
It’s all about the money. A line from the New York Times article: “A major topic of her meetings on Wednesday will be how, and whether, the campaign can raise significant new sums when she has relatively little momentum and when so many donors have already contributed the maximum amount, her advisers say.”
That was BEFORE the revelation of the latest loan. If she can’t whip up some major money mojo in the next 48 hours, superdels and others are going to ask if this has become a self-financed vanity campaign. If the answer is clearly “yes,” they’ll drift–then surge–to Obama.
Comment by Muskrat Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:17 am
I voted for Obama twice - for senate. He didn’t do anything as a senator, but build up a campaign for president. That stinks! It is a rip-off. Frankly, how can anyone look around the US Congress and say to themselves, ‘I should be in charge!’ after spending a dozen months there? What an ego!
So yes, I am discombobulated. This primary campaign has shown that he has nothing but prose. Hillary is a better campaigner, and Barack had a better campaign. She won the states that need to be won, but he’s ahead?
I like a fair fight. Instead we’ve been seeing a need to nominate Barack Obama instead of allowing the process to finish. Instead of celebrating Hillary Clinton, she is being slammed. Is this how we treat a lady? And after seeing her getting up and continuing the fight when it seems every pundit and elitist is screaming for her head, she should be admired. Instead we keep seeing angry folks ticked off that they cannot crown their golden boy as soon as they’d like.
Go ahead. Nominate him. But he’s not ready.
Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:22 am
“One has to wonder, after losing New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, New Jersey, and Indiana how Barack Obama won his senate seat.”
This is Illinois and he is from Chicago. One doesn’t wonder.
Comment by NimROD Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:31 am
Rich,
The under-covered story of the primary is the weakness of John McCain — a quarter of the Republicans who voted in their primary voted against their presumptive nominee! http://tinyurl.com/5bf8jm
McCain got just 77% of the Republican vote in Indiana, 74% of the votes in North Carolina and only 73% of the GOP ballots cast in the Pennsylvania primary.
That is not indicative of a base that is fired-up to work for their candidate this fall.
Sure, they will hold their noses and vote for McCain. But those grudging voters will not do the legwork to ensure another Republican presidency — legwork necessitated by the Bush administration manifest failures.
And an Obama nomination will ensure that McCain will face an unprecedented, well-funded, grassroots ground campaign such as the Republicans have never seen.
All in all, great news for Democrats.
– SCAM
so-called “Austin Mayor”
http://austinmayor.blogspot.com
Comment by so-called "Austin Mayor" Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:39 am
Bill, I hate it when I agree with you.
I’m personally in a real dilema over who to vote for in November - McCain or Obama. Obama, admittedly, has very little experience, especially compared to McCain. I love that McCain is a former POW and war vet; however, I’m afraid that he will keep us in Iraq. Obama will keep us there too, but not for as long. I think Obama will look for an exit plan where McCain won’t. I’m just tired of the bloodshed, parents having to bury their babies (and an 18/19 year old is still a baby to their momma). I’m tired of the Wounded Warriors coming home and not getting the proper assistance from the VA for their physical and emotional injuries. My generation lived through Viet Nam. We didn’t take care of those vets and we have never learned from that. Screw the gas prices, mortgage meltdown and all the other stuff going on. I just want to stop the killing of our soldiers and of innocent Iraqi citizens. I guess I’ve now been politically incorrect enough for one day.
Comment by Little Egypt Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:48 am
VM,
Thanks for your past support. As far as being ready is concerned,in 2000 Repubs voted that W was “more ready” than John McCain. Maybe he was. I know that when you get in the booth in November you will do the right thing and Vote for Barack. Yes, you can!
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:50 am
The vanilla certainly has gone sour. If you haven’t noticed the were one or two (million) people who wanted Barack to run for President.
Your Hillary colored glasses block out the true view of a candidate who believes she is entitled to the nomination no matter what the people want. The arrogance of the Clinton’s is appalling. It has been a fair fight and she has lost. Instead she will try and steal the nomination behind the scenes regardless of what it will do to the party. If that’s the definintion of someone who is “ready” then I’ll take change any day.
Comment by hate in 08 Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:53 am
Little e,
Actually, you have never been more correct! Everything else pales compared to our failures in foriegn policy and the pain and suffering it has caused members of our armed services and their families.
Comment by Bill Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 11:54 am
Obama is the next president. Chicago and IL benefit from increased federal $. It may even get Chicago the Olympics, which in itself will bring thousands of construction jobs for almost a decade. Those jobs can help move low-income workers to middle class long enough to get their children on the permanent path to middle class.
That’s how the world changes.
Obama solves the HRC problem by picking Sebelius or Napolitano for VP. (Napolitano makes more sense in that she must know everything there is to know about the immigration situation.) He can make the Clinton’s happy by giving her the next Supreme Court opening.
We in Cook County are left to ponder: Will Forrest Claypool go to DC for a staff job or will he run against Stroger again????
Comment by Wish it was November already Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:06 pm
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I just can’t get over the suspicion that some was at least tried with the ballots in Gary last night. Obama’s only real base of support in Lake County, and it takes nearly 6 hours for the results? Even the mayor of Hammond said it had the “appearance” of ballot impropriety.
Anyway, is it just me, or is there a disturbing racial trend on behalf of African Americans when it comes to Obama? Nationally, he’s an unknown quantity, and the Clintons have been a very good friend to African Americans for years. Yet, because Obama is black, he wins the African American vote by huge margins everywhere. That’s helpful in a Democratic primary (especially early on, when Clinton’s support was drained off by Richardson & Edwards, without whose candidacies Clinton likely would have wrapped up the nomination by now); but, what happens when the election goes national and both parties and independents are voting? The African American vote, while still a big factor, is not nearly as influential.
McCain could squeak this one out against Obie Wan.
Comment by Snidely Whiplash Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:10 pm
For people who complain that Obama is not sitting in his Washington office toiling away: What you are arguing for is a Senator who only talks to lobbyists.
If you actually understood the way Capitol Hill works, you would demand that all elected officials spend virtually all of their time out talking to voters. An hour on the factory line or eating in a diner can open up a lot of eyes. Instead, you want to isolate officials from the world and let the paid lobbyists define “reality.”
Comment by RBD Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:13 pm
Great blog Rich. First time commenting. It justs kills me all the Hillary/Bill bashing and calls to end the primary. Let the voters speak. Indiana residents were overjoyed they were able to cast a meaningful vote. The posters on this site know better than anyone if there were sound bites and video of Obama in Sprigfield with his mentors Sen. Jones et. al., similar to Rev. Wright , this race would be all Hillary’s.
Comment by padraig Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:17 pm
===The posters on this site know better than anyone if there were sound bites and video of Obama in Sprigfield with his mentors Sen. Jones et. al., similar to Rev. Wright , this race would be all Hillary’s.===
The Senate has a complete audio record, so that’s just silly.
Claiming that “there’s something out there,” when the HRC people have already been through the material with a fine-tooth comb (they even knew how many votes he asked to be switched after the fact, for crying out loud), is just crazy talk.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:21 pm
Thanks Bill. Once in a while we can be on the same page.
Comment by Little Egypt Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:27 pm
Rich,
I know you have your own opinion (which I respect), but my opinion is that “birds of a feather …” Jesse Jackson, Emil Jones, Rev. Wright, the Weathermen fugitive … these are his associations, and Jones and Wright were his admitted “mentors.” All this being the case, how can one rationally believe that Obama is really relatively moderate and not just skewing his public statements and viewpoints in order to win over a less leftward-leaning national voting public? I just can’t, and I’m one to give most everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Comment by Snidely Whiplash Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:30 pm
===these are his associations===
Actually, the “associations” he had in Spfld were mostly a bunch of white men from the suburbs and downstate. Larry Walsh, Denny Jacobs and Terry Link were his buddies. The Black Caucus was never enamored with him because he tended to float above them.
No denying that Jones helped him enormously, but they are not exactly the same sort of Democrat, at least from what I saw. More like Truman’s somewhat questionable Democratic sponsors in KC, Missouri. I know nothing personally about Wright (except that he has no idea about how to talk to people outside his pulpit) and I met the ex-Weatherman’s wife once in a bar, but not him. We drank to Abbie Hoffman, who had died earlier that day. So, I suppose that makes me an Anarchist.
Also, I believe that Hillary Clinton is not at all like she has been portrayed in the media. The people I know who know her best are impressed by her intelligence, compassion and wit, three things we don’t hear about too often on the trail.
Point being, media portrayals about what a candidate is “really like” are always hilariously shallow and overly conspiratorial. The national media is a national joke.
Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:42 pm
Obama is the most charismatic and eloquent Presidential candidate since John/Robert Kennedy. His life expereince compares favorably with John Kennedy’s resume, excepting PT 109 and the womanizing.I think Obama actaully wrote the books he was credited with authoring. And Obama didn’t have Joe kennedy to pave the way to the Presidency - just himself and his campaign team.
Clinton has lost the battle for the nomination on every front: delegates; popular vote; and fundraising. Nationally, her negatives are consistently in the range of 40%. Shortly before the Pennsylvania primary her national negatives were over 50%. You die-hard Hillary supporters need to get over it. It’s over for Hillary Clinton in 2008! The fat lady sang last night. Limbaugh is probably the only reason she managed to win in Indiana last night.
Obama has soundly defeated Hillary and Bill Clinton too by running a better national campaign. Obama overcame incredible odds to defeat the Clintons. This suggests to me that Obama has something on the ball despite the naysayers. If nothing else, Obama certainly far smarter and more capable than oour first MBA President.
I don;’t know why Hillary would want to be the Vice-President. I think she’d be a drag on the ticket given her high negatives. I wouldn’t object to her as VP, but it seems unlikely given her desperate kitchen-sink attack strategy the last two months.
Comment by Captain America Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 12:43 pm
Cap, Kennedy didn’t really accomplish all that much: LBJ did. Actually, we’re very lucky that the Soviets blinked when Kennedy played hardball with the lives of every being on the planet during the Cuban missile crisis. He was inexperienced and brash. Much like Obama, Kennedy made “inspirational” speeches, but really was low on substance. LBJ was old, ugly and not particularly inspirational, but it was he who actually accomplished much of what JFK merely “speechified” about.
Ditto my take on Obama. If he “brings Democrats and Republicans together” as he claimed he did here in Illinois (snicker!), he won’t accomplish much of anything if the GOP retakes one or both houses of congress (admittedly, unlikely for quite some time). The state was just soooo lucky that Obama was the moving force in bringing both parties here together for the good of everyone … oh wait a minute, it never really happened, did it?
Comment by Snidely Whiplash Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 1:08 pm
Even though I am unabashedly liberal in my personal political philosophy, I think many or possibly even most of us may be able to agree as political realists that we’ll all be substantially better off in terms of effective leadership when Bush-Cheney leave office. National polls would not be indicating that 80% of the people believe our country is headed in the wrong direction, if Bush-Cheney had been effective/trustworthy/flexible leaders and stewards of the American dream.
Personally, I believe McCain would be a big mistake becasue his foreign polcy views are in tune with the neoconservative ideologues who got us in our current mess in Mesopotamia in the first place. So In my view the Republicans deserve the drubbing they are going to get in November becasue they’ve screwed things up so badly.
Too bad the State Republican Party and the Cook County Republican Party aren’t in any shape to rescue us from Blago/Stroger incompetence/corruption and Daley competence arrogance/corruption. We’re all suffering In Illinois becuase of the lack of robust, honest political competition in Illinois.
I think a Patrick Fitzgerald candidacy would be able to reverse the fortunes of the Illinois Republican Party. Who would be better able to clean-up the bipartisan corruption that afflicts the Illinois body politic?
Comment by Captain America Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 2:05 pm
Snidely,
Kennedy blew it by not calling off the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, but the Cuban missile crisis was his finest hour. General Curtis Lemay wanted to launch missiles and invade. If Lemay had prevailed, we wouldn’t be here blogging today.
Kennedy was an inspiring leader. Washington DC used to be a fairly civil place “way back when”. However, it’s become and remained extremely polarized during the Clinton And Bush-Cheney administrations. I think Obama makes a sound case for trying to change the way we do business in Washington, D.C. No matter who is elected, Washington is sure to remain a cut-throat place But Obama’s premise for change seems to be worth a shot!
I agree that LBJ was more effective in getting important laws passed because he was a master of the legisaltive process. He also escalated the Viet-Nam War after blowing the Gulf of Tonkin incident out of proportion. At least LBJ paid a price for his foreign policy error. Bush-Cheney got off “scott-free” for the greatest strategic blunder in the history of American foreign policy. But my best guess is that he Republican Party is going to pay the price for the Iraq debacle in November 2008!
Comment by Captain America Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 2:31 pm
Sorry, I did not mean to offend. I was proud of my job.
Comment by I am not ashamed to Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 2:48 pm
All I will say is we have had another president who was attacked for being only a one term senator who had no experience. His name was Abraham Lincoln. He made mistakes, but generally is consdered through the world to be one of the gratest statesmen of our history. Lincoln also was opposed to politics as usual.
Comment by Ghost Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 3:00 pm
Ghost, Lincoln was never a U.S. senator. He was a U.S. representative for one term, 1847-’49. He ran for the U.S. Senate, in 1858, and he lost.
Comment by PhilCollins Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 3:46 pm
The next Governor of Illinois should be more careful on the court. I can’t believe that he knocked the next President of the United States down to the ground.
Comment by Bob Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 4:51 pm
Cap,
Too true on ‘Nam and on Iraq. When the best the D’s can do is Al Gore and John Kerry, someone as unqualified and out of touch as Bush Lite is still able to squeak out a win (with a little help from a little brother and a secretary of state/state campaign chair in Florida, of course). Had John Edwards won last time and/or this year, I would have had no doubt of a Democratic victory and likely a fairly successful presidency. Sadly, rare is the time the national parties give us centrist presidential candidates to vote for; we get the choice between a left winger and a right winger, and the vast majority of us are, to put it bluntly, screwed.
Comment by Snidely Whiplash Wednesday, May 7, 08 @ 5:39 pm