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More factual problems with Quinn’s pension rhetoric

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* Gov. Quinn has been using this calculation a whole lot lately…

“Somebody who retired in 1992 from state employment with a $60,000 pension today under the current rules has $120,000 — and we just cannot afford this,” Gov. Pat Quinn said.

Prompted by some commenters, I surfed to MoneyChimp.com’s online compound interest calculator…

* I asked the governor’s communications director about this. Her e-mailed reply…

It NEARLY doubled.

But her own numbers confirmed the figure I got…

2012

$108,366.67

So, it looks like the governor has yet again made up some numbers to justify his pension proposal.

* Also, Fred Klonsky ran a letter from a suburban public school teacher at his blog…

Dear Governor Quinn,

I just saw you on the news using that word “reform” again. But what really got my attention was I heard you make the claim that a person who retired in 1990 with a pension of $60,000 would have a pension worth over $100,000 today. That’s a pretty sensational talking point you’ve got there! But just like your use of the word “reform” rings hollow, you might want to reexamine this talking point. Here’s why from a teacher’s perspective:

It is entirely probable that a teacher retired in 1990. I’m sure many did. These teachers certainly could have earned their full pension even as they retired in 1990. Although not all teacher retiring in 1990 earned their full pension, I’m sure many did. To earn a full pension, they probably started inspiring Illinois’ children in their classrooms beginning in 1955, or 35 years earlier. Of course these teachers would probably be around 87 years old now, if they are still fortunate enough have lived that long.

But even if they started teaching in 1955, and were 87 years old, and still alive, a teacher retiring in 1990 with a pension of $60,000 probably doesn’t exist. Why?

To have earned a full pension, this 87 year old former teacher would have had to have earned $80,000 a year. As a teacher. In 1990.

(To all the teachers reading this: please be respectful in your guffaws.)

I don’t profess to know all the salaries paid in the state to teachers in 1990, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find a school district in Illinois that paid $80,000 to their teachers in 1990. Maybe an administrator, or a north-shore district possibly. But it would be a very rare teacher indeed. I remember my first contract around this time was for $19,000 a year.

After all, that was 22 years ago. The Dow Jones index was below 4000. Gas cost around $1.40. The Cosby show was cool. You know – back in the day. Kind of like back in 1991 when Illinois legislative salaries were $37,270 a year. Today their salary is $67,876 plus additional compensation for any committees they chair or serve on. And that’s just for a six-month legislative session.

So if a legislator retired in 1990 and had a $60,000 pension that would be a very sensational talking point! But it would be a myth too.

So Governor Quinn, with all due respect, fix the real problems Springfield keeps ignoring. Stop the corporate give aways. Revise TIF districts. Reform Illinois’ regressive flat income tax system.

Leave the fictional 87-year old retirees alone.

…Adding… SJ-R…

The pension for a member of the State Employees’ Retirement System who also receives Social Security averaged $25,390 in 2011. The pension for those who do not averaged $28,740.

* Meanwhile, the Union League Club of Chicago wants the governor to keep calling legislators into special session until the pension issue is resolved. From a press release…

Should tomorrow’s special session of the Illinois General Assembly fail to resolve the fiscal crisis caused by the underfunding of the state’s five pension funds, the Union League Club of Chicago has called on Governor Pat Quinn and the General Assembly’s legislative leaders “to make the pension issue their top priority and to keep the legislature working in special sessions as long as necessary.”

In a resolution circulated this week to the Governor and all members of the General Assembly, the board of directors of the 133-year-old Club whose members are 5,000 men and women business, professional and civic leaders who primarily are Illinois residents, addressed the need for comprehensive action to address the “extraordinary fiscal crisis due in large measure to the underfunding of public employee pension liabilities.”

“All citizens of Illinois are looking to the state’s leadership to resolve this matter promptly. We expect meaningful action to restore the solvency of the state’s five pension systems,” said Guy F. Arvia, Club president.

While the resolution notes that the Club endorses no one plan over others to resolve the crisis, it calls on the state’s leaders for “fair and equitable action to be taken now.”

Noting the consequences of failure to resolve the fiscal crisis now, the Union League Club’s resolution predicted that the “good name and credit of the State of Illinois may suffer disastrous consequences in global credit markets, severely limiting our state’s ability to finance its operations and capital needs.”

The resolution is here.

Just for the record, I’m a member of the ULC, but I didn’t vote on this resolution. If I had voted, I would’ve cast my ballot as a “No.” I’d rather not waste my August going to meaningless special sessions.

posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:00 am

Comments

Ha. And even if there were such a retiree receiving $120,00 per year their 3% COLA would be $3,600 per year. Even with a small supplemental insurance cost there is no way they’d give up their COLA’s under the current plans on the table. More junk numbers.

Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:19 am
Rich, thanks for calling BS on these bogus numbers.

Note to ULC: leadership is meeting w leaders and others to forge workable compromises that can pass. Not keeping the rank and file around doing nothing

Comment by Langhorne Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:24 am
And what percentage of retirees in 1992 got 60k in pension? Geez, at least use a reasonable number.

Comment by Eyebeau Prophin Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:26 am
The bogus numbers lay bare the ideological aspect of the attack on working folks. More evidence that Quinn is fully on board with deadbeat millionaires. Notice how Quinn never proposes cleaning up his administration or taxing luxury services as a “tough choice” in dealing with the State’s financial situation. He’s a phony all the way.

Comment by Crime Fighter Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:27 am
–While the resolution notes that the Club endorses no one plan over others to resolve the crisis, it calls on the state’s leaders for “fair and equitable action to be taken now.”–

Harrumph, harrumph.

What’s the point of the resolution? We’re in favor of doing something but we don’t know what? Thanks for the input.

If it was easy to do, it would have been done by now.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:29 am
The Governor should be using the facts and while it did not double, it was still an 81% increase or a $48,366.67 pension increase, which I think is a big raise for someone who is not working. The Governor does not need to exaggerate (even if it is only slightly) the facts still speak for themselves, we can’t afford it.

I believe in a simple COLA and that we cannot afford the compounded COLA for retiree’s.

Comment by Ahoy! Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:38 am
2012

$108,366.67

If indeed there were many retriees with this salary category it would still make good political batter. However, the Governor needs to avoid mistakes like this, and begin a real process to involving all the players including the uniois in serious negotiations.
The pension issue is real and he is correct in his statements that it will bankrupt Illinois, but he needs to somehow show leadership and draft a real plan. Legislative leaders from both parties also should recognize this and stay in special sessions until some real progress is made.

Comment by downstate hack Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:42 am
It’s understandable that the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club or Illinois Is Broke or whoever the alarmists /inflamers/exaggerators are might make up a bizarre story about the 60K salary that morphed. Who made that kind of money then? Might be a few, just like the folks that make million dollar salaries but we’re told they’re not the usual business worker, right? But our governor? Tells you alot about dirty politics. And they talk about Chicago mayors?

Comment by geronimo Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:46 am
I agree, the numbers being used are fantastical, and a $60K pension at that time would have been rare. But, it is illustrative. Guaranteed increases aren’t sustainable. And, yes, the politicians did screw the pooch on funding pensions. But don’t for a second think that voters have forgotten that teacher’s unions have been instrumental in getting those same politicians elected, and keeping them in power.

It’s going to be painful, but we’ll all have to share the pain. The state will probably go bankrupt anyway.

Comment by elginkevin Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:48 am
Phase in increased employee contributions (each 1% = 15 Billion compounded between now and 2048) phase in local government contributions, give the bill a delayed effective date and go home. The unions will agree to a few additional percentage points if you give them a guarantee and leave current employees and retirees alone. Tier 2 will cut long term costs. Local governments will tolerate the change if you give them time to adjust. Employees will live with the change if their employer does the same and also honors the existing contract. Give the bill a delayed effective date to decrease the votes needed and call it a day. Why is this all so difficult?

Comment by AC Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 11:51 am
3% compounded is a standard rate used for inflation, used in countless Economics textbooks over the last 50 years. 3% compounded is a good deal for the state when inflation is at late 1970’s levels and is likely to go up beyond 3%/yr. at some point in the future in accordance with historical trends of the last century. 3% only looks “bad” in times of depressed economic growth and low inflation, which is now.

Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:02 pm
The percentage increase in pensions over 20 years is only part of the equation. Fairness, it would seem, would be the buying power of a retiree 20 years later — especially one who does not qualify for Social Security.

I’m probably reading the stats wrong, but the Consumer Price Index — the same one mentioned in most pension regorm proposals — show the CPI in July of 1992 at 140.5 and it is at 229.1 for July of 2012. If I did the math correctly, that is a 63% increase over 20 years. The governor’s proposal is no more than 1/2 of the CPI. For someone smarter than me, does that mean a 31.5% decrease in buying power 20 years later?

If so, using the governor’s slick math, someone earning the average pension of $60,000 would have seen their buying power reduced to about $40,000 20 years later?

Surely, there is room for reasonable people to find a compromise here.

Comment by Decaf Coffee Party Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:02 pm
Go Fred Klonsky!

Comment by Emily Booth Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:02 pm
they probably started inspiring Illinois’ children in their classrooms beginning in 1955, or 35 years earlier. Of course these teachers would probably be around 87 years old now…

Or they could be 77, as the eligible age for retirement is 55 with 35 years of service.

Just saying.
http://trs.illinois.gov/subsections/members/pubs/bulletins/0061.pdf

Comment by Jade Rabbit Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:08 pm
“It’s going to be painful, but we’ll all have to share the pain. The state will probably go bankrupt anyway.”

I’m a SERS retiree. Who’s going to feel the pain besides me? Where’s the “We”? I hate the same ole’ tired clinches.

Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:09 pm
Decaf - reducing the COLA to 1/2 CPI is a reduction in buying power. 3% is going to equal CPI over any significant period of time.

Comment by AC Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:11 pm
==Guaranteed increases aren’t sustainable. And, yes, the politicians did screw the pooch on funding pensions. ==

I have never seen or tried to review the actuarial computations that go into the normal cost and required funding computations for the pensions systems, but failing to take the COLA into account would be so grossly incompetent that I would bet that COLAs are factored in. What that means is that, if the politicians had not “screwed the pooch” and fully funded the sytem, we would have a sustainable pension system with COLAs today.

Comment by Anonymice Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:16 pm
I’m a SERS retiree. Who’s going to feel the pain besides me? Where’s the “We”? I hate the same ole’ tired clinches.

____

Me. The taxpayer. When my car hits a pothole, when I have to wait an extra 20 minutes to renew my drivers license, when I pay my property taxes and income taxes, when I get my doctor’s bill, when I drive through the state and the rest stop is out of toilet paper.

When the state makes cuts in staff and budget to pay for retirees, it is definitely a we.

Comment by Jade Rabbit Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:29 pm
Okay I as a state employee will give up my compounded COLA the day someone on Social Security is willing to give up their compounded COLA. Take a look at the history and you will see SSA COLAs of 14%. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/colaseries.html
That said, maybe to be fair tie the COLA to the same used for SSA.

Comment by illilnifan Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:30 pm
- Jade Rabbit - Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:08 pm:

Or they could be 77, as the eligible age for retirement is 55 with 35 years of service.

If you use your best case age scenario, for that teacher to be earning a $60,000 pension in 1992 they would have had to been earning over $100,000 at the time that they retired.

Considering Quinn now “earns” $177,500 a year as Governor , I doubt Jim Edgar made $100,000 a year back in 1992 , let alone one of those school teachers you seem to despise…

Comment by roadiepig Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:44 pm
elginkevin, “Share the pain”? What bunk! How much of your retirement or healthcare are you willing to give to the State of Illinois to fund current and/or future entitlements (aka giveaway programs)? Sharing the pain is easy if it applies to someone else.

Comment by IDiOT For 35 Yrs Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:51 pm
Wasn’t the governor’s communications director the former deputy director of the budget office? If this is the kind of math they do over there, that explains alot.

Comment by it figures Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:59 pm
“I’m probably reading the stats wrong, but the Consumer Price Index — the same one mentioned in most pension regorm proposals — show the CPI in July of 1992 at 140.5 and it is at 229.1 for July of 2012. If I did the math correctly, that is a 63% increase over 20 years.”

I think you are reading the stats correctly. If you go to the BLS website, you can do a comparison between years. According to their site, $60,000 in 1992 is worth $97,977.48 in 2012 which is a 63% increase. When you look at it that way, the increase in pension benefit doesn’t seem quite as excessive.

Comment by Pelon Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 12:59 pm
Jade Rabbit…….only non-public employees cars hit potholes…..have to stand in lines……pay real estate taxes, go to doctors and use toilet paper. All of that in addition to a reduction in their income that they paid for! Do people think public employees get exemption from real estate taxes TOO? Wouldn’t surprise me if that were the belief. Those taxpayers (?) probably think the governor buys houses for employees with all the taxpayer money (except the money paid in taxes by state workers) Problem is, we’re all taxpayers even though that’s an inconvenient fact. As I said before, they’re doing a wonderful, fabulous, unbelievable job of pitting middle class folks against each other to deflect attention from the people with resources untapped that could help the state.

Comment by geronimo Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 1:04 pm
Quinn is a “populist”, a sort of political creature whose instinct is always to play to the mob. Fanciful mathematics to appeal to mobs’ prejudices are a stock gimmick with this political class. His example is so out of touch that it constitutes a lie, not merely an exaggeration. I am doubtful that even most agency directors could have retired in 1990 with a 4-year average salary of $60,000. As someone else pointed out, the average salary in those days was more or less $26,000, a far more realistic number to use if he wishes to make a rational point.

Comment by Skirmisher Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 1:15 pm
Nonsense Jade Rabbit, the taxpayer. You are feeling “pain” now. The state isn’t paying their fair share NOW so your “pain”, including all the stuff that has nothing to do with state government, is just typical griping. You ain’t part of the “we”.

Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 1:17 pm
How many people are getting these pensions that qualify for increases from $60,000 to $108,000+ based on 35 years of work. 10,000 people? 250? Most of the people I know in some state retirement plan are getting mid $30’s to mid $40’s and they are hitting or already past 65. The assumption I heard with Quinn is that $108,000 is the norm. Seems like a nice talking point but what is the % of the average retirement.

Comment by zatoichi Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 1:19 pm
Quinn takes a page out of the Blago “Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” script of demagoguery.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 2:13 pm
1. We could use more folks like Klonsky’s letter writer in the General Assembly.

2. I’m willing to give Quinn the benefit of the doubt unless he’s been using this repeatedly in a stump speech that he simply misspoke. Much like Obama’s “51 states” and Mitt’s mispronunciation of “sheik.”. Union members have legit gripes, but this seems nitpicky.

Comment by Yellow Dog Democrat Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 2:24 pm
Wonder how many of these politicians wanting pension cuts supported Emil Jones in 1989 when he sponsored the bill that added 3% additional year after 20 years to their already high 85% legislative pension. Emil’s pension jumped $40K so he was making much more retired than when in office.

I believe they repealed it in 2003, but the damage was already done for many of them.

Comment by Ready To Get Out Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 2:27 pm
Decaf
You math is correct. What these numbers show is that over the last 20 years inflation has averaged about 2.47%. The 3% COLA was actually improving retirees’ purchasing power. This situation is not likely to be true in the future.

Comment by capncrunch Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 2:37 pm
Rich - Hope you will be putting this in your weekly column. With all the lies and made up numbers out there, the public, aka - taxpayers, need a dose of reality and truth. Which is why I enjoy your blog.

Comment by lincolnlover Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 2:57 pm
- Mouthy - Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 1:17 pm:

Nonsense Jade Rabbit, the taxpayer. You are feeling “pain” now. The state isn’t paying their fair share NOW so your “pain”, including all the stuff that has nothing to do with state government, is just typical griping. You ain’t part of the “we”.

——————

Last I looked your pension fund couldn’t carry you as promised. As a 36 yo. working Illinoisan, my taxes and vote has an impact on your pension, just as your pension has an impact on my taxes. We were sold a 3% increase to fix this mess, and got a lame duck 5% increase.

I don’t know how you can post here and expect sympathy for your cause and neglect those of “us” that still aren’t convinced that we won’t see another lame duck tax increase to keep the voting unions and pensioners happy.

If it’s not “we” then it’s gonna be “you” versus “me” or the “YOUS” and “THEMS”. I’d rather we find a fair solution that keeps my kids out of this type of mess in 20 years.

Comment by Jade Rabbit Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 3:02 pm
How many times does it need be said the problem with the pension system is the state not making its contribution?

Comment by Liberty First Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 3:13 pm
Quinn just issued a press release saying they needed to “eliminate the unfunded liability” so they would have money for schools and the Republicans shouldn’t worry because the cost will be phased in.

I guess this makes sense to Quinn.

Comment by Liberty First Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 3:29 pm
Geronimo says…
“…As I said before, they’re(non public employees) doing a wonderful, fabulous, unbelievable job of pitting middle class folks against each other to deflect attention from the people with resources untapped that could help the state.” Italics added.
Who would be these people?

Comment by capncrunch Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 3:42 pm
About the Mess We Are In, with pleanty of blame to go around and with few saints in the room

So if the state discontinued Compound Interest earning “interest on your interest”, and changed the rate to say 2.75% year than 2.75% year using simple interest the state would save 7.8 % per million on funds currently paid over the next ten years or $78,000 as compared to the current 3% compounding of the same amount over the same period of time. Earning interest on the interst probably has to stop.

Comment by frankly speaking Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 3:52 pm
Frankly speaking- why should the state be allowed to change its annuity contracts after the fact?

Comment by Liberty First Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:00 pm
“Somebody who retired in 1992 from state employment with a $60,000 pension today under the current rules has $120,000 — and we just cannot afford this,” Gov. Pat Quinn said.

Let’s look at the math for a SERS employee that retired in 1992. In 1992 retirees earned 1.5% of their salary times the number of years they worked as their retirement income. For someone to have earned a retirement benefit of $60,000 per year in 1992 they would have had to work for 40 years and had a final salary of $100,000. (40 X 1.5% X $100,000 = $60,000)

If that person had started at age 25, they would have been 65 at retirement in 1992. They would be 95 today.

I was with the State in 1992. Agency directors did not make $100,000 per year in 1992.

If this is the logic that’s being applied to the solution, God help us.

Comment by Calhoun Native Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:01 pm
NO. You misunderstood or I wasn’t clear. Illinois Is Broke, Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago, et al are doing a great job of dividing people who work for middle class wages against each other to deflect the attention from the growth of their incomes during this horrible economic time most people are experiencing. Where could revenue be generated from? Revenue that would help fund our state—-not just pensions? Read.

http://www.ctbaonline.org/New_Folder/Budget%2c%20Tax%20and%20Revenue/CTBA%20FY2013%20Enacted%20Budget%20Analysis_8.2.2012%20FINAL.pdf

Comment by geronimo Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:04 pm
AHOY
The point the commentators were tryong to make was: hardly no pensioner back in 1990 made anything remotely close to $60,000 per year in a pension, so your coming up with a pension today of $120,000 is almost non-existent.

Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:08 pm
Frankly speaking, inflation is compounding, so unless the COLA compounds, pensions in real terms would diminish over time.

Comment by AC Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:12 pm
“If that person had started at age 25, they would have been 65 at retirement in 1992. They would be 95 today.”

They’d be 85 today. Fat fingers.

Comment by Calhoun Native Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:14 pm
Jade Rabbit @ 3:02 pm:

Go back and re-read those news stories about the tax increase. Go all the way to the last paragraph or two. They were clear that the tax increase only ‘fixed’ the problem for two fiscal years. If you heard soemthing else, and the politicos sure tried to make you hear it the way they phrased their statements on it, you got fooled … just like they fooled you with the lottery.

Comment by RNUG Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:18 pm
Rich,

Here’s another interesting statistic you might want. A lot of the public seems to think State employees have the clout to elect who we want and get them to vote goodies for state employees.

If you take the FY11 annual reports from the five retirement systems, add up all the member categories to get the totals, go to the US Census, get the state population, back out the people under 18, and crunch the numbers, ’state employees’ are 7% (rounded slightly) of the potential voting population … if you can get all of them to vote the same on an issue. You can double it to 14% if you think we can all get our spouses / significant others to vote the same way. It’s a big enough block to move an election, but it’s a long ways from being able to railroad anything through.

Comment by RNUG Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:27 pm
Rich,
Guess I was a bit too rabid?

Comment by SO IL M Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 4:46 pm
I wish there was a “Christmas Carol” type scenario where Old Pat Quinn would visit New Pat Quinn and be horrified by what he sees. While Old Pat Quinn was a gadfly and press release fanatic, he quite often had criticisms of those in power which were informed with logic.

Transparency in government is a good thing, Old Pat Quinn would say. Honoring union contracts and keeping the constitutional obligations for state pensions are good things, Old Pat would have said.

New Pat Quinn detests transparency and openness. He lavishes raises on his inner circle and denies raises to ordinary workers (union and non-union). New Pat Quinn is unaccountable, often incoherent, and frequently cranky.

While Old Pat Quinn sought out the press with a fervor second only to Jesse Jackson, New Pat Quinn refuses to answer questions and uses his spokespeople to threaten newspaper reporters with jail.

If only the confrontation between Old Pat and New Pat would end with the heartwarming rebirth of spirit experienced by Ebenezer Scrooge. Take a good look at New Pat Quinn and it’s impossible to imagine that happening.

Comment by DuPage Dave Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 6:16 pm
Here is a proposal that could save millions now, not in 20 years. In 2005, Blago had ARCP, which offered employees their contributions plus 6.5% interest if they terminated. Not many took him up on that, because in Springfield, working for the state is pretty much it. But what if the state offered current contributions plus 6.5% without termination, but with the employee being permanently out of the system with no future contributions to be taken from their pay check. That would save the state all of those missed contributions for that employee and no future contribution liability for that employee. I see state workers all the time on this blog and others with the wish they could get their contributions back. Some would likely take the state up on the offer knowing that the state might not have the money in the future to pay out pensions.

Comment by Jack Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 6:27 pm
Did I read somewhere that Quinn’s salary is $177,000? That’s a healthy sum……what will his pension be? Will he be taking a cut in income/benefits to show leadership in these times of economic hardship? ……. It does make me cringe a little that we have people fighting over pension sums that will not be enough to buy exotic foreign cars, 2nd or 3rd homes or used to invest heavily in gold (nor should they), but the people out there who are living in the above mentioned way would be damned if they had to pay $20 more in taxes! Really? Reminds me of the people who will spend $5 in gas to save 50 cents at the store. There are lots of people out there who provided services to our residents and are now retired. Unless we want to just shoot them, they DO need to live. The figures that are thrown out there are just hallucinogenic for the most part.

Comment by geronimo Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 6:37 pm
…………and it really makes me wonder about the people who buy those figures, hook line and sinker.

Comment by geronimo Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 6:39 pm
Quinn’s salary is $172K per the SJ-R database.

One interesting thing is that GA members get one month of service credit even if they only work one day. Pension amounts are based on service credit. So by calling this one day session tomorrow, Quinn boosted all the GA member’s pensions and aggravated the problem.

Comment by Jack Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 7:01 pm
1989-1990 average teacher salary in 1990 is approx $33000.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/02/us/education-the-teacher-salaries-gap.html?_r=1

click on pdf file to see the estimate of 1990-1991 Illinois average teacher salary at $34,000

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d99/d99t080.asp

Comment by mushroom in the dark Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 7:52 pm
So what is the average salary of the members of the Union League Club of Chicago? What type of company pension do they have? How much is it? Do they have a guaranteed pension? Can their company go in a change their pension at will? What business do they have asking the the governor to change the pensions of state employees?

Comment by Rusty618 Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 8:37 pm
Rusty618,

A lot of them have ‘golden parachute’ contracts that amke sure they get paid regrardless of anythign that happens.

Comment by RNUG Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 8:58 pm
Thanks for putting this info out there. Next time the Governor wants to use that scenario, maybe he would like to use some real world numbers, like mushroom in the dark was able to find, and not some numbers pulled out of……. somewhere.

Comment by Concerned Voter Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 9:57 pm
By “share the pain”, I mean that taxes will have to rise to fund the shortfall, and pensioners are going to have to take some cuts as well. State employees on pension act like they had no influence and have no knowledge of how we got here. I’m 34. I haven’t been alive long enough to make or watch for all the bad decisions that got us here. But guess what? The pensioners have. So, if they weren’t watching the fiscal house to see that there’d be enough money in the end, whose fault is that? I wasn’t even alive when these bad decisions started being made.

This isn’t “vote and forget”. As a citizen you’re responsible for making sure the people you elect are making good choices. If they don’t, you pay for it later. That’s what is happening now. Most pension plans assumed something like an 8% rate of return. That was never going to be sustainable over the long term.

Comment by elginkevin Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 9:58 pm
elginkevin,

The employees, through the unions, tried to sue to enforce the yearly payments by the GA. See the IFT case and subsequent ones.

Comment by RNUG Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 10:13 pm
Actually, every single one of my HS teachers who retired in the late 80s made well over 60k — several closer to 90k, and many said they retired because it was silly to keep working when they maxed their pension. I went to a decent, but not outrageously over the top suburban high school.

Comment by vibes Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 10:46 pm
The SJ-R database is not up to date and is not accurate.

A quick check of the comptroller’s salary database (The Ledger) shows Gov. Quinn was last paid on July 31st in the amount of $14,784.33.

Annualized: $177,411.96.

Comment by Ready To Get Out Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 10:54 pm
vibes — the discussion was not if a teacher made 60K, it was Quinn’s imaginary example had a retirement salary of 60K.

Comment by Ready To Get Out Thursday, Aug 16, 12 @ 10:56 pm