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* Bruce Rauner says those who earn $8.25 cents an hour make too much…
All four Republican candidates for governor are against raising the state’s minimum wage. Gov. Pat Quinn says he wants to raise it to at least $10 per hour by the end of the year.
Bruce Rauner believes Illinois should do the opposite, and lower it to $7.25. “I will advocate moving the Illinois minimum wage back to the national minimum wage. I think we’ve got to be competitive here in Illinois,” Rauner said.
To put this into a little perspective, somebody earning minimum wage in Illinois today (before any Rauner-enforced pay cut) would have to work 6,424,242 hours to match Rauner’s 2012 income of $53 million. That works out to 803,030 days, 160,606 40-hour weeks, or 3,088 years.
Rauner’s income last year averages out to $204K a day for a five-day work week, or $25,550 every hour for an eight-hour day. It would take a minimum wage employee 399 days to earn as much money as Rauner made in a single hour last year. And, again, that’s before any pay cut.
Now, I get where he’s going on the rhetoric about staying competitive with other states. But I’m not sure he’s the best guy to make this proposal.
* And I’m not the only one pointing out Rauner’s wealth, by the way…
GOP gubernatorial primary candidates on Thursday took issue with multimillionaire Bruce Rauner’s declaration that his fund-raising prowess — including $4 million last quarter — makes him the only one in the field who could go “toe-to-toe with Pat Quinn.”
Rauner made the statement as he announced that his campaign took in a whopping $4 million in the fourth quarter of last year — with $1 million coming from his own personal fortune after his self-funding lifted the typically mandated caps on state campaigns. […]
“Mr. Rauner’s finally come clean and admits that his major qualification to be the GOP nominee for governor is that he can buy the election,” said competitor state Sen. Kirk Dillard, R-Hinsdale.
*** UPDATE *** Courtesy of a commenter, this is from Bruce Rauner’s Twitter feed…
Starting #ShakeUpExpress day 2 off right: Raisin Bran at the @Super8Hotels in Marion.
— Bruce Rauner (@BruceRauner) January 7, 2014
I suppose this is designed to show what a “regular guy” he is.
I checked the Marion Super 8 website and rooms start at $59.99 a night. Based on his 2012 income, it would take Rauner less than 9 seconds to make that amount (which is less time that it takes to read this update). A minimum wage worker would have to work about 8 hours to earn enough to stay there.
Just sayin…
*** UPDATE 2 *** Ormsby…
House Deputy Majority Leader Lou Lang (D-Skoke) today fired back at GOP gubernatorial Bruce Rauner’s proposal to cut the Illinois minimum wage, saying that the hyper-wealthy Rauner is “delusional.”
“In my 26 years in the legislature, I’ve seen many candidates roll out anti-poverty plans, but Bruce Rauner is the only candidate to roll-out a pro-poverty plan,” said Lang. “He’s delusional if he thinks that General Assembly would bow to his class warfare on low-income workers. He needs to have his delusion shaken up.” […]
“Rauner is deeply out-of-touch with working people,” said Lang. “He needs to come to grips with the fact that the era of robber barons is over and impoverishing workers is no longer an economic growth strategy.”
Lang is right about the impossibility of something like this passing.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 9:53 am
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I think we all understand Mr. Rauner is rich, having achieved his fortune by dint of intelligence and hard work. I realize that’s easy to caricature, but it’s also a fact that he’d like Illinois to be a state where people can find jobs that pay above the minimum wage. The mindless attacks on his wealthy by dillard, among others, betray a fear as well as an inability to discuss substantive issues. I like Dillard, but I’m not impressed by this tactic.
Comment by jim Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 9:57 am
Just another reason not to vote for the guy.
Alix, I’ll take Class Warfare for $200.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 9:58 am
Going after union workers is one thing, but I would be surprised if your average voter thinks the minimum wage should be cut. How do you come back to the center in the general election with statements like this one? He is handing Quinn’s team a lot of material for commercials.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 9:59 am
I remember a time when wealthy meant educated, refined and classy. Throw in generous, philanthropic as well. This guy typifies so much of what wealth has become today. Selfish, mean, grabby (from anyone you can grab from) and certainly not appearing to have education OR class. The new reality, I guess. Buy anything, anyone…… and this is what anyone would want as leadership—the one in charge of the welfare of our state and citizens?
Comment by geronimo Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:01 am
What is next for “Bruce Rauner”, running commercials about Charter schools and caring about the kids by founding charter schools …
(snark)
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:02 am
Rauner should probably try going head-to-head with reality, but this is getting fun. Everytime he opens his mouth he drops another pearl of “I’m a rich guy” wisdom.
Comment by Toure's Latte Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:02 am
I work in the employment services field for a large staffing provider. I like to think I am smart but how does lowering the wage make Illinois more competitive? Rich, what am I missing?
Comment by Nick Knack Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:06 am
Self destruct phase one has begun. I agree that the minimum wage in Illinois makes it harder for the state to grow its economy and attract business. However, this is the height of stupidity, and a political time bomb of a statement.
Comment by John A Logan Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:07 am
==but it’s also a fact that he’d like Illinois to be a state where people can find jobs that pay above the minimum wage. ==
Except for the people making minimum wage who’s wages he would cut. Casualties of war I guess.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:07 am
@Geronimo:
Rauner could have paid tuition to enroll his children in any school that he preferred, but he saved a few bucks by having them “clouted” into one of the Chicago Public School’s finest selective admission schools (a/k/a taxpayer supported country clubs or privilege academies).
He plays “the Chicago Way.” I do not mean that as a compliment.
Comment by Upon Further Review Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:08 am
Rauner’s handlers are frantically trying to put the cork back in.
Comment by Toure's Latte Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:09 am
What is it Rauner wants Illinois to compete for? More McDonalds and Walmarts? And it’s not like Illinois’ higher minimum wage is deterring them from opening up new stores in the state anyway.
Comment by OldSmoky2 Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:10 am
Politicians including Quinn dont actually plan to do much of what they say. I think it makes for good headlines and all he needs is the voters to buy it before an election and forget it before the next one. We have many large clients in Illinois with CEO’s with considerable influence (campaign contributions). I am sure Quinn has assured them nothing will change but he has to say this to get reelected.
Comment by Nick Knack Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:11 am
“All four Republican candidates for governor are against raising the state’s minimum wage. Gov. Pat Quinn says he wants to raise it to at least $10 per hour by the end of the year.”
So, the Govs speech about his position on hamburger flippers making more than his state retirees should be a keeper.
Comment by Anonywoman Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:11 am
Republicans are foolish if they think attacking the working poor is a winning message for them, especially when it comes from wealthy candidates who can barely conceal their contempt for these people.
That sure worked well for Romney, didn’t it?
Comment by Wensicia Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:15 am
Wow… this seems to me to be Rauner’s first big blunder. There are few issues that poll as well as raising the min wage. And Rauner is saying that he wants it lowered?!?!
And I think Rich Miller just wrote the script for an anti-Rauner ad:
“To put this into a little perspective, somebody earning minimum wage in Illinois today (before any Rauner-enforced pay cut) would have to work 6,424,242 hours to match Rauner’s 2012 income of $53 million. That works out to 803,030 days, 160,606 40-hour weeks, or 3,088 years.
Rauner’s income last year averages out to $204K a day for a five-day work week, or $25,550 every hour for an eight-hour day. It would take a minimum wage employee 399 days to earn as much money as Rauner made in a single hour last year. And, again, that’s before any pay cut.”
Comment by dave Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:16 am
Uh, not defending the Farmer…But what major election is not bought? I think it’s class warfare to knock his wealth. Or is it better that Quinn will have a war chest from public sector unions? So he has the dough? I am glad he’s spending his and not ours. He is spending it to be philanthropic. Giving his business skills to Government? Or is it for the $150,000 pay check? Having your PR person not letting you talk about unpaid bills is not the answer. Not just his money is going to him. I was hoping for Brady or Rutherford to get traction…They waited too long. It is a two horse race. It will be interesting to see what the general public thinks how the state has been run. Like him or not, it will be a referendum.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:16 am
Just another rich guy who can’t relate to Joe the Plumber. You need more than just a bankroll to win big political offices.
Comment by Stones Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:17 am
Semi-Related: The most winningest “Hammer And Shake” ad is the Baron Carhartt Remix - http://youtu.be/30OL_OpJNzg
– MrJM
Comment by MrJM Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:20 am
===I think it’s class warfare to knock his wealth. ===
I think it could also be claimed that Rauner engaged in class warfare when he demanded that the wages of the working poor be cut a buck an hour.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:20 am
If you loosely define “low-income” as 200% of the federal poverty level, there are about 4 million people who meet that description in Illinois, or close to 1/3 of the state’s population. Pretty stupid (and heartless) to go after the working poor.
Comment by davidh Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:20 am
“I agree that the minimum wage in Illinois makes it harder for the state to grow its economy and attract business. However, this is the height of stupidity, and a political time bomb of a statement.”
Looks like an unforced error. Rauner hasn’t made many, but this certainly was.
First off, nothing he can do about the minimum wage issue. With Democratic super majorities, IF (and it’s a big IF) Quinn can persuade the legislature, he’s home free. So why go there in the first place?
Let’s see if Pat can get an increase done. If he does, the Democrats own it. If it works out for them, fine. If not, well Rauner just got handed an issue. Not Rauner’s problem, one way or the other - until he stepped in it.
As far as cutting the minimum wage - he should know better than that. That’s a ‘gimmie’ issue he just gift wrapped and handed to not only Pat Quinn, but even his primary opponents.
Bad play! Rauner got at least 2 errors on that one, and maybe a third error just on principle.
Comment by Judgment Day Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:21 am
Bruce, you just went all Hall & Oates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cggi9STVWDs
Comment by PoolGuy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:21 am
“lower it to $7.25″
Americans overwhelmingly support raising the minimum wage. Republican voters also support raising the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage will be a campaign issue for Democrats, as it ought to be.
We are in a time of great prosperity for wealthy corporations and shareholders. We are living in two economies, one in which the wealthiest are having a boom time, and the other in which wage earners sometimes have to take low-paying jobs and work two jobs. It couldn’t be more wrong for a billionaire to want to reduce the minimum wage right now, in my opinion.
What should concern us is that it’s not enough for very wealthy conservatives to make record income right now. They want even more. They want to weaken unions and keep wages down even more.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:24 am
You can’t be in the business of campaigning for governor and say that any group makes too little or too much, and then not expect the topic to then include a candidate’s wealth, how they made/make it (including ‘career politicians’ to be fair) and question them about why they feel monies earned should be increased or decreased.
Fair game.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:24 am
Rich, I agree with you. But PQ has no answer or allowed to answer about unpaid bills and wants the wage raised. I think if the Farmer makes a commercial with that and ask how can we raise the wage, he can walk it back….maybe. Again, he is the only one getting a message out…
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:24 am
==I think it’s class warfare to knock his wealth.==
I’m not knocking his wealth, but it’s a big turn off for me for a guy who is filthy rich to constantly attack people that don’t make a lot of money and seemingly blame them for all the economic problems in the world.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:27 am
With his push for term limits and other stances his campaign has taken, I thought he was going to use poll tested tripe throughout the campaign. In a way, that was scarier- someone trying to buy an election by using the money to pull a con job on the electorate. This minimum wage declaration, this is different. This, to me, shows he has an agenda, an ideology (however awful, amoral, and economically debunked) and is beginning to express it.
This is easy to beat for a populist Dem like Quinn. This isn’t scary anymore.
Comment by Chi Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:31 am
The first question Rauner should answer is…Why should Illinois want to compete for more minimum wage businesses? As FDR said during the Great Depression when passing the first minimum wage legislation: “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country”
Comment by Bill Edley Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:35 am
@Montrose 9:59,=…he is handing Quinn’s team a lot of Material for commercials.=
Rauner might have to go to plan B. Buy up all the commercial time available to limit Quinn’s ability to air his commercials.
Comment by DuPage Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:39 am
- DuPage -,
I think there is a rule about commercial time put aside. I don’t think it is possible to dry up the opportunity to respond, if a campaign has the money to do so.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:42 am
Chi… If this is him, I am glad. Is it what he believes? Yep. What’s the minimum wage in Texas? North Dakota? Yep, $7.25. Again, which economy do you want? Attract business and higher paying jobs to Illinois so folks can earn more? Or more Rick Perry commercials? Are the Governors of those states amoral? We get the government we deserve…. I appreciate new ideas. PQ wants to double down… Minimum wage won’t be the piece that breaks the Farmer… But he is set up for a choice for voters to make.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:44 am
I have read the above statement a couple times now. I might be over stating it….Maybe….but I think Bruce Rauner’s campaign just ended. Seriously. He just dug a big hole, that won’t be easy to dig out of, even in a republican primary.
Comment by John A Logan Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:45 am
Come on, Rich. It’s only “class warfare” when you attack the poor, defenseless rich guy.
Man, I’d love to write this ad. Middle-aged woman’s voice…”While you’re watching this 30-second commercial, Bruce Rauner is making over $200. And he’ll do it in the next 30-seconds, and the next…and the next.” (screen shows a calculator rolling from one number to the next) “And what about you?” (sound bite of how the min wage should be rolled back).
“Bruce Rauner. He got his. Now he wants yours.”
Comment by Concerned Observer Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:46 am
Walter Mitty, I would rather the oil and natural gas in North Dakota and Texas than the oil and natural gas in Illinois. But I’ll take Illinois government any day.
Comment by Chi Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:47 am
=== I don’t think it is possible to dry up the opportunity to respond,===
Federal, yes. State, not really. WCIA TV is notorious for limiting the number of state and local campaign ads.
Comment by Rich Miller Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:49 am
Chi… And that is what elections are for. I appreciate the opinion…. I think the bigger goof is the Rutherford like tweet… Trying to pull back eh?
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:50 am
Is this all a joke? To have that amount of wealth and talk about wearing cheap watches, eating FREE breakfast at economy hotel….it has to be playing a silly game for…. attention? This cannot be real. No one could be this bizarre.
Comment by geronimo Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:52 am
If you can, watch Bill Moyers’ show on North Carolina where a rich guy is running the show. Is this what we want for Illinois?
http://billmoyers.com/segment/north-carolina-battleground-state/
Now I am no fan of PQ, but unfortunately the alternative is worse, at least in my opinion.
Comment by RetiredStateEmployee Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:52 am
Also, welcome back Rich and happy new year to all. I am investing heavy in popcorn stock this year… Sorry to hijack the thread… Rich, I will re post if you start a snarky resolution thread.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:53 am
Bruce Rauner just lost the 2014 General Election.
Comment by Anonimo Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:53 am
To put this into a little perspective, somebody earning minimum wage in Illinois today (before any Rauner-enforced pay cut) would have to work 6,424,242 hours to match Rauner’s 2012 income of $53 million. That works out to 803,030 days, 160,606 40-hour weeks, or 3,088 years.
Based on this arguement, our next governor should have experience working at Walmart or McDonalds. I understand the point that people making decisions are out of touch with those being impacted by those decisions. But if this is the approach, where is the loss of income to the business owner that now has to pay a $10 minimum wage to workers? How about the impact to the cost of a hamburger?
I understand that Illinois has a high number of families trying to make ends meet on minimum wage income, but doesn’t an increase in the minimum wage undercut the emphasis that our society places on education to rise out of poverty?
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:54 am
- Walter Mitty -,
Illinois is not Texas, or the Dakotas,…Indiana or Wisconsin. Comparing any state to Illinois is folly. Does ND or SD have, arguably the “world’s busiest airport”? How close is Illinois to Texas, good or bad?
To the Post,
Rauner Crew,
I see you are on a “Bus Tour”, good on you. How about “we” stop with the “frugal”? It is embarrassing to say, “We stayed at a Super 8″ when Bruce Rauner has 9 homes, including a Condo in Chicago, and a house in Winnetka.
Bruce Rauner is not the Frugal Candidate. Rauner has pieces of the Steelers, the Bulls, AND the Red Sox. When you have a “piece” of multipule, high level, professional franchises, you don’t get that card in the deck.
Wealthy? Someone who may own 2-3 McDonald’s franchises
Billionaire? Someone who owns parts of 2-3 Profesional sport franchises.
BTW, “Rasin Bran” has been out for quite some time. Us simple folk have been eating it for years. Eating “Rasin Bran” and bragging about it can not be more condesending to the rest of us.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:56 am
Gee, now why would a media-savvy guy like Bruce Rauner come out against the minimum wage?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2013/08/08/as-obama-pushes-for-minimum-wage-increase-billionaire-charles-koch-rails-against-it-with-media-campaign/
Comment by olddog Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:58 am
-Frugal Candidate.
I would support that he is a Frugral Candidate investing in opportunities that provide a tangible return.
The current system of government has our state in a significant amount of debt. I would argue that the current decision makers are less frugal than Bruce Rauner.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:59 am
=== === I don’t think it is possible to dry up the opportunity to respond,===
Federal, yes. State, not really. WCIA TV is notorious for limiting the number of state and local campaign ads.===
Thanks, Rich. I wasn’t sure, so I thought if I threw it out there, someone would help.
Welcome Back! Hope you and Oscar are safe and warm.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 10:59 am
(fka walkinfool)
Simple problem: There’s no credible evidence I’ve seen that lowering the current minimum wage will actually grow our economy, or attract more companies to Illinois. There are some credible arguments and evidence that raising it will.
Bruce, or his handlers, are speaking thru ideological filters.
Comment by markwalker Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:01 am
Pete-
To put it bluntly, as Judge Smails did, “the world needs ditch diggers too.” It is not possible for everyone to go to college and get a great job. And when I say it’s not possible, I’m not saying “it’s too hard for some people to make it through college.” I’m saying that if everyone followed your path to prosperity and graduated colleges, some of those college graduates would have to work at McDonald’s and Wal-Mart. And many would be just as hard-working as I’m sure you are. The world needs ditch diggers too, and they deserve to make a living wage. Not simply from a moral standpoint, but from an economic standpoint. A rising tide lifts all boats, businesses thrive when consumers have money to spend. Employees of other companies are consumers of yours.
Comment by Chi Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:02 am
OW… I like folly…but love competition. This election is poised to decide, what we have or what we want? Do you capitalize on the “worlds busiest airport” to make business more attractive? Or do you continue the populist spend til we are broke PQ? As I write the president is paving the class warfare route.. It will be a choice, clearly defined now. Not the typical lesser of two evils. Pick your pure evil….
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:03 am
Is it class warfare when Quinn cuts pensions or does he get a pass because he isn’t rich.
Comment by Fed up Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:03 am
SECTION 3. ELIGIBILITY
To be eligible to hold the office of Governor, Lieutenant
Governor, Attorney General, Secretary of State, Comptroller
or Treasurer, a person must be a United States citizen, at
least 25 years old, and a resident of this State for the
three years preceding his election.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
Nothing about being wealthy as a restriction to holding the office.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:04 am
- Pete -,
Eligible is one thing. To be seen as qualified, and to be seen as honest and genuine, truthful, with integrity, that is up to the voters.
Wealthy people can be Dopes just as easy as middle-class people.
Dopes run, and win and lose all the time.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:09 am
===Do you capitalize on the “worlds busiest airport” to make business more attractive?===
I have. I have had conversations, very specifically to the fact of O’Hare being where it is, and how its location makes Illinois, Cook County, Northeastern Illinois, a place that this specific transaction needed to close.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:11 am
OW PQ had a chance to do such. He has not, will the farmer do it? Or will PQ? The honest answer is the key…
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:15 am
- Walter Mitty -,
ADM?
You’re welcome.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:17 am
Yes, 1…
You’re Welcome
(snark at my idol)
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:21 am
OW-
To be seen as qualified, and to be seen as honest and genuine, truthful, with integrity, that is up to the voters.
I don’t think that would apply to Quinn. Our current income tax, current state of debt, and our shrinking population have not improved since he was elected.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:24 am
@ - Chi -
We need ditch diggers. I agree. Illinois pays nice wages for jobs we need. Have you looked at the union/trade wages that Illinois pays?
Why don’t we offer Union Jobs as a society to help elevate people out of poverty?
I don’t see raising minumum wage for jobs that are not intended as being a career the solution to our problems. Higher mininum wages is proposed to help offest the loss of state income tax incase the rate drops back down. The state budget is designed to spend every cent of income.
But as you quote, the state NEEDS ditch diggers. Does the state NEED fast food workers?
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:28 am
- Walter Mitty -,
I will try to bring this all back. Illinois, with the majoritites in the General Assembly as they are, and probably will remain, is in a situation where the next governor, be it any of the 5 running, has to work with that General Assembly, and while “Bruce Rauner” likes to throw read meat out, like the minimum wage, this state is not in a position to change course on some of his ideas, no matter what General Assembly Bruce Rauner tries to buy with his PAC.
“Bruce Rauner” has attacked teachers, while clouting a Daughter in a public school, and taught by union teachers. “Bruce Rauner” has attacked state unions, while making money of the pension work. Do you trust “Bruce Rauner”, or Bruce Rauner, and which is telling the truth of how they will do business with a lower minimum wage?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:28 am
IL needs more corporate tax breaks, not an increase in the minimum wage. The billions spent on corporate subsidies by the Fed govt clearly aren’t enough to stimulate our economy and provide incentive.
Cut rent subsidies.
Cut food stamps.
Raise county property & municipal cell phone taxes.
Increase corp subsidies and tax breaks at all levels of govt.
If IL offers more than WA, maybe IL can lure all Boeing operations to our prairie home.
Comment by Hans Sanity Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:29 am
- Pete -,
Pat Quinn is going to have to answer to the voters for his record IN office. Quinn will run as a Populist, and the 2014 run could very well mirror the 2010 race. Quinn and Vallas are positioning themselves to show hypocisy if “Bruce Rauner” wins, and then has to run against Quinn and Bruce Rauner.
You can’t “out-cheap” Pat Quinn, out “ordinary guy” Pat Quinn, and you can not out “looking out for you” Pat Quinn in the voter’s eye. Pat Quinn is the kind-hearted guy that means well, but seems to be over his head 23 of the 24 hours in a day.
But, you can’t out “Pat Quinn”…Pat Quinn.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:33 am
I find myself already assuming a Quinn-Rauner matchup. So do others it seems. So maybe that’s the good news for BR. And maybe his anti-minimum-wage rhetoric will tame down after the primary.
Comment by Cassandra Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:33 am
..and tax those bicycles, too.
Sidewalks aren’t free, either. Tax shoes.
Comment by Hans Sanity Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:36 am
OW… I have to agree with Pete… I take red meat with better solutions over the red meat of PQ… It is that simple… And I think it will now be closer in the general because of it. I hope so at least. Now the bond agencies are starting to look at the pension really saves the money alleged, if legal. Does Madigan clout our entire state government for positions?Did Rauner clout his way to get his kid in a good school? Do big donors clout their kids in good colleges? Divergent ideas I celebrate, agree or not. We got em.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:36 am
Ow. You got 1 clout for Rauner.
You’re Welcome.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:37 am
Rauner lacks any and all humanity. He drips with a smug aura of wealth and could care less for anyone who is beneath him.
Comment by Chadwick Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:41 am
Mitt Rauner may want to review Willard Romney’s “47 percent” moment before he… Whoops, too late.
Comment by Northsider Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:41 am
- Walter Mitty -,
It comes down to integrity for “Bruce Rauner”, and if you don’t require integrity, then “Bruce Rauner” is your guy, and go for it.
Like John Kass, and all those who clamor for a better Illinois, “Bruce Rauner” is not the answer, but your definition of integrity is for sale if the buzz words seem ok.
“Bruce Ruaner” is, even according to him, “selling Bruce Rauner” for you to buy into, but if you are ok with “Bruce Rauner” not being the real Bruce Rauner, and you like to be taken as a fool, I won’t stop you.
I may point out the hypocrisy, but I won’t stop you…lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:42 am
===Ow. You got 1 clout for Rauner.
You’re Welcome.===
You see that “Education” Ad by “Bruce Rauner”.
I was asking myself, “Wonder what child Bruce Rauner denied an education at Payton Prep so his Denied, New Trier living Daughter got to go there?”
Embarrassingly pathetic to run an Ad touting your belief in education, while Bruce Rauner himself made sure his denied New Trier living Daughter took a spot fro a child, worhty of admission.
If you think denying ONE child… personally … a chance is nothing, I can’t help you
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:45 am
@ Pete –
You are correct.
If those fast food workers can’t get the money together for college they should stop serving burgers and serve our nation and themselves!
I’m surprised recruiters don’t spend more time working the fast food franchises.
Comment by Hans Sanity Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:47 am
OW… I appreciate your views. I just think we have two separate choices. Stay on the broken path. Or try to get out? I think Rauner will lose the General not because he does not have the best ideas, but because PQ has more “integrity” and has not changed his tune with every new month. We have seen PQ.. If he were elected, then we can judge his public integrity… I’ll stop, shut my trap, and learn from the posts.
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:49 am
“competitive here in Illinois”
Illinois has apparently had a promising close in 2013. Here is an economic index showing growth at the end of last year:
http://igpa.uillinois.edu//flash-index/2013/december
I say that if today was anything like the 1950s, with high union participation and a strong middle class, then it may not be a good idea to raise the minimum wage. But because it’s the opposite, I believe this calls for an increase in the minimum wage.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:51 am
- Walter Mitty -,
I, too, was arguing the points, no need for you to shut your trap. making the case and hashing it out is what this place is all about. I don’t take it personally, nor should you.
No one can out “Pat Quinn”, then add the minimum wage arguement, that can’t be a wining formula with 2 different selling points running against each other.
You hold your own, - Walter Mitty -, why stop, in general. Much respect.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:53 am
Dillard’s position on the minimum wage might be even further right than Rauner’s.
Dillard described himself as a “Jeffersonian free market guy” who believes that the market should “set everything, including the minimum wage.”
Basically, he wants itr to be even lower than $7.25/hour. Worth mentioning if you’re attacking Rauner’s position.
Comment by JGIRN Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:54 am
Well, Bruce, I think $7.25/hr. is exploitation.
It should be illegal to pay an employee that little in 2014, and this is coming from a pro-business fiscal conservative.
Comment by In the Middle Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:54 am
Well, what do you know: A Higher Minimum Wage Could Lift Millions Out of Poverty
Comment by Northsider Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:57 am
Speaking of class warfare:
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s403×403/564575_10151909632341275_1382693496_n.jpg
Comment by Bill White Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 11:59 am
Gee, why would a media-savvy guy like Dillard come out against the minimum wage?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2013/08/08/as-obama-pushes-for-minimum-wage-increase-billionaire-charles-koch-rails-against-it-with-media-campaign/
Comment by olddog Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:00 pm
I am unable to shut up… I learn so much here. I think the clout you count for his kid makes sense…IF…IF… The teacher unions back Quinn.. He took a constitutional right away. They are smart enough to know he can’t have charter schools all over the state. But he may be able to provide the economic plan to help fund their pension. I think that will be interesting to see. They can “support” or they can “SUPPORT” PQ… The teachers unions would be more hard pressed to challenge in court the man that took their benefits away and turn around and support him…
Comment by Walter Mitty Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:01 pm
OW,
To ‘OUT’ PQ, all you have to do is position his campaign platform as a ‘Madate’.
Then you highlight the gridlock of his administration.
If I had 30 seconds to pounce on PQ, I would focus on the income tax.
Elected Nov. 2, 2010
A 67% increase on your earnings 72 days later.
Minimum wage of 8.25 means 41 cents every hour goes to the state of Illinois. Minimum wage workers in Illinois pay $3.28 each Eight hour shift for the priviledge to work here. With a $10 minimum wage, that same worker will pay $4 a day to work in Illinois. A 22% increase for the state and at $10/hr uncle sam takes 1.5 and Illinois takes .5 for a total income tax of 2.00. That’s 35 cents more an hour than the previous minimum wage taxes.
What will a Relection of Pat Quinn mandate next?
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:05 pm
- Walter Mitty -,
I think that is why Unions, in general , would like to see Rauner out in the Primary, so they don’t have to make that decision in the General, where the “lesser of two evils” is really bad too.
The Paul Vallas pick kinda put the Chicago Teachers’ Union on notice; you will have to choose, and if its Rauner, choose wisely, whatever that may mean.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:05 pm
- Pete -,
The state Income Tax is going to be “in play”, but as its “in play”, the question comes back to, “well, that is ‘x’ number of dollars you will need to either cut, or generate in revenue. Explain how you will make up for the shortfall, or how will you dump the increase? Sunset? Gradual sunsetting?”
At some point, rhetoric needs to become a policy. Throwing rocks, even justified rocks, can be enough, but will it be enough against Pat Quinn?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:11 pm
- Northsider -
That link assumes that the poverty line would remain stagnant. I think that as the minimum wage increased, the cost of goods would rise and inflation would spike thus driving the poverty line up. Just because we pay people 10/hr to make breads doesn’t mean the bakery can pay that baker by selling loafs at their current price.
As the federal minimum wage rises, so will the poverty line.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:13 pm
===As the federal minimum wage rises, so will the poverty line.===
Asking …example?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:14 pm
Another cost to this is the cost to the government to offset the inflation spike caused by a Federal Min. Wage increase. People on disability and social security would suffer most and the pressures on those programs would be immense. We can’t give grandma and grandpa their same monthly SS check if the price of bread just went up 30%.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:14 pm
Explain how you will make up for the shortfall, or how will you dump the increase? Sunset? Gradual sunsetting?
That’s a double edge sword. Rauner could offer to cut all the Madigan patronage from government, or push for right to work, or just turn the question around to PQ and put the pressure on Quinn to do something different beyond the status quo.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:16 pm
Oh, please please please nominate this guy. Romney 2.0
Comment by K3 Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:17 pm
@ OW regarding poverty line.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/12poverty.shtml
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:17 pm
If a family’s total income is less than the dollar value of the appropriate threshold, then
that family and every individual in it are considered to be in poverty. Similarly, if an
unrelated individual’s total income is less than the appropriate threshold, then that
individual is considered to be in poverty. The poverty thresholds do not vary
geographically. They are updated annually to allow for changes in the cost of living
(inflation factor) using the Consumer Price Index (CPI).
Taken from:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/about/overview/measure.html
So CPI plays into the impact on the poverty line. That will go up with minimum wage as the cost for production of goods increases.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:22 pm
Pete-
Show me where an increase in the minimum wage caused 30% inflation.
This is another great argument that hopefully Baron Von Carhartt uses: “We need to keep people poor to avoid inflation.” Please run with that one…
Comment by Chi Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:37 pm
Does he have a Super 8 card to match Pat Quinn’s?
Comment by Both Sides Now Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:38 pm
- Chi -,
I was hoping for someone to chime in on the minimum wage and its relation to “poor”, and “inflation” and political perception in making the arguement, based on the economics as such.
“Bruce Rauner” might be a good vessel to sell the minimum wage arguement, but Bruce Rauner will be lurking for Pat Quinn to take to task on it.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:42 pm
Are there a lot of hotel options in Marion? Also the less you spend on hotels the more you can spend on TV…
Comment by OneMan Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:42 pm
Let’s have some fun with the DHS SNAP eligibility calculator.
Currently an adult making minimum wage, with three dependents can receive up to $428 in SNAP benefits from the taxpayer. (Other conditions: $500 monthly rent, $200 monthly dependent care cost).
So Bruce Rauner wants taxpayers to pay more than $428/mo to keep food on the table for minimum-wage Illinoisans? And this makes us competitive? Conservative?
http://fscalc.dhs.illinois.gov/FSCalc/
Comment by Jimmy CrackCorn Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:45 pm
@ Corn Cracker –
Not sure if it’s still the practice at Wal-Mart, but a decade or less ago they used to advise employees on signing up for state assistance.
Hire the disabled, but don’t give their parents full time work with benefits.
Comment by Hans Sanity Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:48 pm
-A rising tide lifts all boats, businesses thrive when consumers have money to spend. Employees of other companies are consumers of yours.-
Point taken, but you are only addressing one aspect of supply and demand. With the product being labor, as wages rise, more people will WANT to work - that is the supply curve. With the demand curve, as the price of labor increases, the demand will decrease, or in other words, the quantity of labor demanded by employers will decrease. There is a point of equilibrium where the 2 curves meet, but both sides of the equation must be taken into account - you can’t simply say that people will have more money to spend, when there could be fewer people working due to reduced employer demand for labor.
Comment by countyline Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 12:49 pm
-This is another great argument that hopefully Baron Von Carhartt uses: “We need to keep people poor to avoid inflation.” Please run with that one…
Have you ever read the book “The Richest Man in Babylon”? It supports the notion that when the people around you are wealthy all of society benefits from that wealth. It also advocates that you can not gain wealth by chance. It takes both intelligent investing and smart choices. I would love to see Illinois with the lowest level of poverty in the country. For that to happen, the people in that bracket have to believe they can rise out of it through hard work and smart choices.
Better paying jobs for people is already here and waiting! We can’t fill STEM careers fast enough. Why are we focused on raising minimum wage instead of raising the populace of educated workers?
Companies move to Chicago to tap our educated workforce. What percentage of CPS students graduate and then go on to work in the loop with a white collar job. How about Chicago City Colleges?
That is where the greatest disconnect is with poverty. The fact that the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois can not take it’s workforce from diapers to grave with current opportunities associated with powerful companies headquartered in Illinois and Chicago is disappointing at best.
When the politics of the state focus on increasing a mininum wage that does nothing to improve the workforce that is desperately short handed in some of our most pressing areas of need, it’s not only short sighted pandering for a vote in the worst way, it’s a disservice to every taxpayer.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:03 pm
- Pete -,
Which makes for a better 30 second Ad…
Your Post, or Pat Quinn saying “Bruce Rauner” and Bruce Rauner are out of touch, and keeping people down?
The optics are the mitigating factor, along with the economics.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:17 pm
Does anyone think some workers will be laid off if the minimum wage is raised by 20%?
Comment by Laissez Faire Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:21 pm
**Minimum wage workers in Illinois pay $3.28 each Eight hour shift for the priviledge to work here. **
You know just enough to demonstrate that you don’t know very much.
You should read up on the EITC sometime.
Comment by dave Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:23 pm
@Laissez Faire:
I’ve seen arguments from economists going both ways. Some say increasing the minimum wage doesn’t cause unemployment to increase, while others do. I don’t think there’s a consensus on the affect.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:25 pm
OW,
I think Bruce Rauner isn’t keeping people down.
If Quinn stated that, he would be openning the door to all the people that are employed and enjoying prosperity because of him.
Being out of touch is a dangerous statement. People can say that PQ has let the bills in Illinois stack up. I don’t think the average Illinois resident can get away with not paying the bills for as long as the state has.
If you’re the average Joe that doesn’t follow politics. What is your perspective?
Cigarette taxes are through the roof.
The plate fee is going up if you have a car.
Your health insurance has probably gone up.
Taxes in Illinois are not going down.
What good is a SNAP program if you can’t get to a store because the Dominicks has closed?
What has Illinois done to ease the pain on your wallet.
That is where most people are voting from.
Forget the Same Sex Marriage bill and the Pension Bill. It’s going to go to how far a dollar goes in Illinois. If Min. goes into effect before the election and hamburgs in Illinois goes up from $1 to $2, PQ will be in trouble. If Min. wage increases and goes into effect in Dec. PQ will win.
IMHO.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:26 pm
– Not sure if it’s still the practice at Wal-Mart, but a decade or less ago they used to advise employees on signing up for state assistance. –
Yes, pretty much still the practice. What a crappy business model for everyone but the Walton family:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-18/always-low-wages-wal-mart-s-other-choices.html
Comment by davidh Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:28 pm
If low skill, entry-level labor becomes 20% more expensive then do automated machines or kiosks become 20% more affordable?
Comment by Laissez Faire Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:30 pm
@Pete:
I think it’s pretty hard to say that Rauner doesn’t look out of touch when he says things like this.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:30 pm
- Pete -,
===If Quinn stated that, he would be openning the door to all the people that are employed and enjoying prosperity because of him.===
Who are those people? Bruce Rauner is not claining to be a personal job creater, is he?
You can list negatives all day in a campaign, and spend millions upon millions on those negatives. Sooner or later, a candidate opens their mouth, like on minimum wage, and suddenly, Pat Quinn doesn’t look half as bad as the “billionaire guy” looking to take money out of my wallet, while he has 9 houses.
Evil you know, versus evil you don’t.
Pat Quinn’s bread and butter.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:32 pm
**If Min. goes into effect before the election and hamburgs in Illinois goes up from $1 to $2, PQ will be in trouble. **
Right… first of all, I’m not really sure where you can still get a $1 hamburger. But second, you think that the price of a hamburger will double if the minimum wage goes up?
Fascinating…
Do you have any examples of something like actually, you know, happening? Because we have numerous examples of minimum wage increases around the country over many years, and there is little/no evidence that anything similar to what you say has occurred.
Comment by dave Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:35 pm
C’mon Willy, I’m pretty sure “Pete” is a Raunerbot sent here to mess with us.
Don’t feed the trolls.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:36 pm
**Minimum wage workers in Illinois pay $3.28 each Eight hour shift for the priviledge to work here. **
Sorry, that line is not in context. Illinois Minimum Wage Workers pay 5% income tax to the state of Illinois.
In an eight hour shift that equates to:
.05($8.25)(8 hours) = $3.30
EITC assumes that people file their income taxes and take a credit.
-RESULTS strongly urges Congress to make the EITC changes from ARRA permanent. If no action is taken, these changes will disappear in 2013, thus hurting families who need help most.-
http://results.org/issues/earned_income_tax_credit/
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:36 pm
- 47th Ward -,
Alright … sorry. I had my fun.
Apologies.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:39 pm
I’m not a Raunerbot.
I’m an Illinoisian, a Republican, and a voter.
I’ve met Ruthersford before at a township breakfast. He has personality, but I don’t see him being strong enough to bring significant change.
I’d like to vote for a person that will bring back fiscal responsibility.
Part of that has to be an honest look at the services the state provides and the beuracracy of the committees to oversee those services.
http://www2.illinois.gov/ppb/Pages/board_minutes.aspx
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:40 pm
- 47th Ward -,
If I wasn’t sorry before, now I am …yikes.
First round of shots on me, “party foul”
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:43 pm
Pete-
I’m in favor of a progressive state income tax too.
Comment by Chi Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:45 pm
OK.
How many of you have worked in a McDonalds?
I have. All through High School and a bit in college.
Inventory is tracked at each restaurant and the product is a very small cost. The rest of the costs are, francise fee, labor, operations, and profit.
If the francise fee and operations are static… the only place to adjust are labor, profit, and fees.
If labor goes up and a francise owner does not want to absorb the cost, the fee goes up. It’s the same with shipping costs on our domestic products. We pay more because the cost of gas went up. It’s the same logic with wages associated with production.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:47 pm
Pete
You gave a great example of how trickle-down economics is supposed to work, unfortunately there is nearly 40 years worth of economic data proving that wealth does not find its way into the hands of all but remains with those who control the purse strings.
If better paying jobs are here and waiting why is the unemployment rate still so high? People want to work, those working in low paying jobs want higher paying jobs so why haven’t those positions been exposed and filled?
Comment by Bulldog58 Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:47 pm
===I think it’s class warfare to knock his wealth.===
But Rauner is pretending to be a regular guy with the cheap watch and Super 8 schtick, which makes attacks on his hypocrisy about his wealthy out-of-touch lifestyle perfectly legitimate.
And this cheap watch/Super 8 schtick seemss silly to me as political strategy, because it plays into one of Quinn’s strengths - Quinn actually is a cheapskate who lives his life like more of a regular guy than most candidates for governor do.
Comment by Robert the Bruce Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:50 pm
@ Dave –
McD’s had dollar menus as recently as fall, at least south of I-80. I thought they still had them….as well as Chicken sandwiches for a buck.
Still — go with a pick 4 at Balmoral, or instead of buying 2 dollar burgers, an exacta box.
Comment by Hans Sanity Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:54 pm
@Pete:
The fee only goes up to the extent people are willing to pay. I don’t remember a massive spike in prices the last time the minimum wage was increased.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:55 pm
I’m finding myself agreeing with Geronimo’s observations. I think wealth is a great thing. However, unsuccessfully hiding or unsuccessfully downplaying your wealth usually means one of two things: 1) you’re a grifter trying to convince someone of your wealth, or 2) you just can’t help yourself and continuously flaunt it even while pretending you are not.
I don’t know which type is freakier.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:57 pm
Mythical economics abound.
Comment by markwalker Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 1:57 pm
-
worth of economic data proving that wealth does not find its way into the hands of all but remains with those who control the purse strings.
I think wealth only remains in the hands of people that make smart choices. I believe that there are many people that have great incomes, put spend their ways into poverty.
http://www.denverpost.com/technology/ci_24857092/dennis-rodman-might-not-be-shadiest-ex-nba
Look. I agree that poverty is an issue, but this is America. We provide opportunity. We have to encourage our neighbors to step up and work hard. Become educated and rise out of poverty. Raising minimum wage is meaningless unless there is more to encourage people invest in themselves and create more than a minimum wage worth.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:03 pm
For a single parent earning minimum wage, with two kids, Raisin Bran is an unaffordable luxury anywhere. Sorry, Bruce.
Comment by Cheswick Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:08 pm
If better paying jobs are here and waiting why is the unemployment rate still so high? People want to work, those working in low paying jobs want higher paying jobs so why haven’t those positions been exposed and filled?
Because those jobs require education and skill.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/emsi/2013/03/07/americas-skilled-trades-dilemma-shortages-loom-as-most-in-demand-group-of-workers-ages/
Note that in an education system run by teachers with an Arts Degree in Education, we not only suffer from a shortage of STEM teachers, but also a shortage of the product of STEM teachers.
I’m an engineer. I had to get a BS in engineering, work for 4 years before I could even sit for the exam to get my license. I had to pass that exam and then I have to spend 30 hours every two years learning to keep up with my profession. It’s not easy. It takes work. My dad was an iron worker and was laid off in the 80s from a steel mill. I went to college on pell grants. I know what poverty is. I know first hand how to escape it. It’s not easy.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:09 pm
@Cheswick - go with Oatmeal (no pre-packaged single serving packets). Now & then get a tub of raisins for a treat.
Comment by Hans Sanity Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:11 pm
If anything gets 20% more expensive, people will consider purchasing less of it. If it is illegal for a teenager to work for $7.50 per hour at an entry-level job then there will be fewer teenagers with entry-level jobs. If a teenager grows up without job experience, then what?
Comment by Laissez Faire Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:12 pm
@Pete:
If Rauner is listening to people like you then I know why he’s out of touch.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:15 pm
Pete-
You need to erase this from your vocabulary:
*We have to encourage our neighbors to step up and work hard. Become educated and rise out of poverty.*
That statement completely ignores the real world experience of poverty, race and gender in our society. It is a gross oversimplification to say that we just need to encourage folks to better themselves. That belief only serves the desire to save money by cutting back support for those in need.
Do you really think that someone making the minimum wage doesn’t want more? Doesn’t want more education, more resources, more genuine opportunity? Do you really think $10 an hour is going to kill all ambition? Do you think that little of people?
What kills opportunity - real opportunity - is being told through out your life - both directly and indirectly - that you will never amount to anything, that you are not worth investment, that you should expect less. That is what our society and system says to the poor day in and day out. That is the barrier.
So, stop with that argument. You don’t want an increase in the minimum wage? Fine, but stop saying that you want to keep it lower to help the people in those jobs.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:18 pm
=I’m an engineer. I had to get a BS in engineering, work for 4 years before I could even sit for the exam to get my license.=
Well, come back and let us know how it feels when your job gets off-shored or transferred to a visa worker because you no longer have the skills and are told that the Government is going to pay to send you back to school so that you can qualify for that hotel desk clerk job you had in college.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:20 pm
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba550/
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:24 pm
Pete-
From the National Center for Policy Analysis website - “Our goal is to develop and promote private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector.”
I am shocked they produced a report showing raising the minimum wage is bad.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:30 pm
Montrose, well said. It shows when people haven’t been around or worked with low income folks. It’s easy to stereotype and dismiss all that stands in their way. In fact, it’s easy to dismiss everything about them. No one’s asking to give freebies to low wage earners by raising minimum wage. But paying an amount that allows these workers to take care of their needs as independent people, rather than supplementing their income with public assistance would be a worthy goal. Isn’t that what we would want for them? To be able to take care of themselves and be productive?
Comment by geronimo Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:34 pm
Montrose,
It was pretty balanced if you read the whole thing. They basically concluded that the negatives are mostly associated with displacing current workers within the static number of minimum wage jobs that are sought after by more workers. The thought is that by increasing the minimum wage, more people with compete for those jobs, and the people at the bottom will be displaced by those that might have declined an 8.25/hr job for a 10/hr job. The other points are counter’d by available studies.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:35 pm
@Pete:
Let’s see. The NCPA also has articles advocating the elimination of the corporate income tax and an essay on income inequality which basically berates poor people. Come on now. Give us better sources of info than that group for crying out loud. I hardly think a study from a group that is opposed to any minimum wage at all is a valid source for a study on the economic effects of raising the minimum wage.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:37 pm
As the astute - 47th Ward - pointed out;
Do. Not. Feed. Trolls.
I blame myself.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:42 pm
@OW:
I’m bored and it’s too cold to go outside and play.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:43 pm
If anything gets more expensive, people will look for substitutes. Why doesn’t that principle apply to entry-level labor?
Comment by Laissez Faire Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:44 pm
OW:
I know, I know. I tried to stop myself, but some statements I cannot let stand.
I am done now. I swear.
Comment by Montrose Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:46 pm
No no … “tis I who is to blame”, - Demoralized - and - Montrose -.
Understandable, however. - Pete - has been one of the more “interesting”, but … a Troll is a Troll.
Happy New Year to you both.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:50 pm
Alright.
I guess this blog is only for people that tow a certain line.
My comments and responses have gone from healthy debate to troll like behavior. I apologize and will engage in a self imposed hunger strike.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:51 pm
==I guess this blog is only for people that tow a certain line.==
Apologies OW. My last hurrah.
Actually, Pete, the blog is for anybody. But you should be prepared to be berated if your ideas make little to no sense.
Adieu.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:53 pm
- Demoralized -,
I hope you come back….
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 2:57 pm
- Pete -,
Don’t go on a hunger strike; Listen to - Demoralized -, and …
Take 2 Cannoil, wash ‘em down with a bottle of “Ski”, and repeat 3 times …
That usually does the trick.
To the Post,
The idea of cutting the minimum wage is the hangup, freezing it, or not favoring an increase is the safer political “play”.
All voters hear is that the money being taken, the rest is an explanation fallig on deaf ears at times.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 3:05 pm
Hey Rich, (maybe Pete knows) can we find out if Rauner remodeled the Super 8 before staying there? He could do that with some of his walking around $$. Maybe he just bought the hotel outright. I hope not for the sake of the employees.
Comment by Superrr Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 3:18 pm
- I went to college on pell grants. -
- I know first hand how to escape it. -
Government assistance for the needy? Or are you just special?
As a fellow engineer, get off your high horse, it’s not exactly a hero’s journey to become one or work as one.
Comment by Small Town Liberal Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 3:26 pm
Having waded through the 144 or so comments, I have a serious question for Pete.
Given that people, especially one earner families with kids, can actually live as well or better on welfare than minimum wage … and given you apparently want to reduce the minimum wage below the current level, what is your solution to the welfare support / wage mis-match? Are you advocating for lower welfare support levels? Are you advocating for increased welfare support for a limited period (2 - 4 years) while people get re-educated so they can get better jobs? Or are you advocating to just buy all the poor people a one-way bus ticket to another state so they are no longer Illinois’ problem?
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 3:48 pm
Pete,
Welcome to the blog. How long have you been out in the Polar Vortex? Sit by the fire, warm up. Willy may even share his Canoli.
Comment by Endangered Moderate Species Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:14 pm
Does anybody else think that Pat Quinn and Bruce Rauner should have the “Super 8″ debates around the state. A debate held at Super 8’s all across the state.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:18 pm
Given that people, especially one earner families with kids, can actually live as well or better on welfare than minimum wage…
Serious answer. Help educate / train the workforce to provide a skill / service that demands a wage greater than minimum wage and keeps people off of welfare.
The education system is in place. We need to direct students to 1) stay in school 2) get an education in a career that has a high demand 3) make that education available
as Small Town Liberal says: it’s not exactly a hero’s journey to become one or work as one.
There is a shortage in the labor market for engineers. The city colleges and most of the community colleges can not offer a full degree (ABET) that will give a person the qualifications to be an engineer. Our government should subsidize the city and community colleges in nursing and engineering to help meet the demand for those fields. That is what I would propose.
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:19 pm
Pete - Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:19 pm:
So what do we do for the 28 year old with a 2 yr degree working in his field that only gets 25 - 30 hours a week at $9 per hour? How does he go back to school to get different training?
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:26 pm
RNUG,
That’s a vague senario.
If a 28 yo is modivated to excel in the field that they worked within for that 2 yr degree, then I would expect the individual to be gaining experience in their field. They should be spending the 10-15 hours under their 40 hours volunteering through either the state or their educational institution to move up.
Our unemployment system could go further to match qualifications to unemployed.
There are over 150 job postings with the state of Illinois for Clerical/Data Entry/Human Services.
http://agency.governmentjobs.com/illinois/default.cfm?clearsearch=1
Our DFS is understaffed. Why doesn’t the state enact a partnership with colleges to educate and train available people for these positions?
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:35 pm
Example:
http://www.diversity.dot.illinois.gov/student_outreach_opportunities_engineering_academies.aspx
Does this go far enough? Does this message reach and resonate with people that are in poverty?
Comment by Pete Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:37 pm
@Pete:
You act like that people are in poverty because they want to be in poverty. That if they would just tell themselves to do better everything would be ok. That’s not how it works my friend. If it were then we wouldn’t have a poverty problem would we?
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:42 pm
==but doesn’t an increase in the minimum wage undercut the emphasis that our society places on education to rise out of poverty?==
You don’t think giving people a little more money might also help them out towards their educational goals? They still have to work while they go to school. You don’t think they might need a little extra income?
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:46 pm
@Pete:
I will leave you with this one last thought. I have a good job but I wanted to get an advanced degree to make myself more marketable should I need to get another job in the future. I went back to school for my Master’s but I eventually had to quit because I didn’t have the time to adequately devote to it between a full time job and 3 kids. It’s not as simple as you make it out to be. You can’t just tell people to do better and expect it to magically happen. There is a real world out there and you seem to be unaware of it.
Comment by Demoralized Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 4:50 pm
The Marion Ritz-Carlton must have been booked.
Comment by Jake From Elwood Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 5:29 pm
=There is a shortage in the labor market for engineers. =
I guess you’re having a difficult time believing that engineering will be off-shored more soon, too. It’s OK. Those of us in the “safest” fields and professions went through the same thing before it became impossible for anyone to deny.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 6:00 pm
==I think it’s class warfare to knock his wealth.==
If it’s class warfare, he’s winning.
C’mon man, Rauner proposes to cut the minimum wage and he’s a victim? He’s Mr. Burns, for crying out loud.
The spot will write itself and it will be devastating. Check out the photos of the properties.
–Dillard described himself as a “Jeffersonian free market guy” who believes that the market should “set everything, including the minimum wage.” –
Did Dillard hit his head, many times, on something hard? What’s he talking about?
Jefferson’s “free market” set the minimum wage at “zero” when it came to his slaves.
Where did he read up on economics, anyways? Jefferson wanted a pastoral, plutocratic society — no relation to and industrial capitalistic society.
I guess the “market” should set the price for water, electricity, natural gas, etc., too?
Comment by wordslinger Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 6:46 pm
Two things:
1. “Baron von Carhartt” is the funniest thing I’ve seen on this blog in a long time. I really did laugh out loud.
2. Pete- give it a rest.
Comment by DuPage Dave Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 6:56 pm
Warren Buffett, who is one of the few people richer than Bruce Rauner, gets it right once and for all: “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
Comment by DuPage Dave Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 6:58 pm
Like I say minimum wage is for High school students and college not for married and raising a family. If they our going to pay minimum wage it should only be to those people. Married or have children you should be paid more.
Comment by No Sense Tuesday, Jan 7, 14 @ 7:35 pm
I’ve known a LOT of REAL “regular guys” over the years, and ya know what? A LOT of ‘em sweated their rear ends off to earn every last penny of their minimum wage every hour…and yet, “Bruce Almighty” sees it fit that we should now REALLY stick it to all of those REAL “regular” folks out there, while he dances around in his multi-MILLION$, and CUT their already piddly wages by an ENTIRE DOLLAR an HOUR…nice guy. Sure–if ya truly DON’T give a damn about all of those REAL “regular” hard-working folks out there. Does he really have a clue?
Comment by Just The Way It Is One Wednesday, Jan 8, 14 @ 12:19 am