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* Crain’s Chicago Business attracts several commenters who know how to write well, and I sometimes find them helpful because they say things that elected officials and others just won’t. For instance, this was posted to a column of mine by a frequent Crain’s commenter who goes by the name of Glenn Farkas…
Sally, I’m not missing the point at all. Rich’s article is a ruse. The state has been run like an organized crime syndicate for decades, so advising Rauner that if he would just stop leaning on the mobsters they might just come around and be altar boys. We elected him to shake up/break up Springfield, and it will probably get worse before it gets better. The single biggest factor in this state’s downfall is directly correlated to the Democratic politicians and their collusion with unions. The unions will never give up their golden goose w/o a fight and the Democrats can’t offend their primary donor base and election workforce. We have no other choice, and if you think the economy is bad now, keep heading down the road we’re on with none of Rauner’s reforms and the state will be in receivership within 5 years.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:02 am
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The problem with the Raunerites is that they seem to miss the point that Rauner has been part of this mess for decades. He’s not an outsider. He’s an insider who has profited from the corruption. No one is on our side - that being the side of the taxpayers. Nobody.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:06 am
That is a nice comment. Is the economy in Illinois bad? And if so, what did the unions do to make the economy sour?
Comment by 360 Degree TurnAround Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:06 am
Union money is collusion eh? Corporate money buying looser regulatory controls is what then? Look, I’d like to get all money out of politics, but I’m not so naive as to think it is only the other sides donors who are buying politicians.
Comment by Me too Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:07 am
Wait, wasn’t it just Don Rauner who sent Don Emmanuel dead fish?
Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:09 am
its interesting how people hold strong oppinions without facts. like vaccines cause autism, or the states compensation system is a golden goose.
fyi State Farm is about the size of the state of illinois. they have better benefits and pay. and yes they have a defined benefit plan just like the states, But their employees dont contribute any money to it. so the state compensation is actually less then comporable size companies in Illinois. not much of a golden goose. state compensation is way below that of chicago board of trade employees…..
Comment by Ghost Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:09 am
Spoken like someone who isn’t having their life directly worsened by this situation.
Empathy is in short supply these days.
Comment by Served Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:10 am
I also remember shaking up, not breaking up. I think this commenter might be the only one who wanted to see the state destroyed in the name of progress. I find it hard to believe, especially after speaking to more than a few regretful rauner voters, that the current mess is what they all wanted.
Comment by Me too Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:10 am
=== I think this commenter might be the only one who wanted to see ===
You don’t get out much, do you?
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:11 am
That statement has a lot of broad conclusions without any actual arguments to back them.
Comment by slow down Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:13 am
How is the current GOP cabal with Rauner at the head any different?
This particular comment quoted comment isn’t about what’s actually going on in Illinois — or prognosticating the future — it’s about how one side now views the other. It’s evidence of a growing partisan divide and the struggle for one side to define and attempt to marginalize the other.
Comment by Frenchie Mendoza Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:14 am
=== it will probably get worse before it gets better. ===
As I have said before, worse for whom and better for whom?
Because the way i see it, the folks he is making it worse for now won’t be better off if Rauner gets his way.
And what exactly is this “collusion”? In 2011, the combined state-local tax burden in Illinois was 10.2%.
The national average was 9.8%.
Rauner is grinding state and local government to a halt over 0.4% ?
Comment by Juvenal Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:15 am
– Rich’s article is a ruse.–
Again, conspiracy theory.
Rich is in on it, too.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:16 am
I get out plenty, but the current mess is more than anyone expected. Only people who don’t know the severity of what is going on would think that this is worth Rauner’s reforms the benefits of which cannot be articulated. Oh there’s still people supporting him, but I don’t think they expected things to get this bad. If they did, then they are bad at math. The coat of this both in dollars and human cost will never be made up for by getting rid of prevailing wage and eliminating public union bargaining over wages and bennies.
Comment by Me too Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:18 am
Cost. Oops
Comment by Me too Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:19 am
1.3M Illinoians voted for Alan Keyes. I imagine that some of them have internet access.
– MrJM
Comment by @MisterJayEm Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:20 am
Rich Miller’s column a ruse?
Pulling out the rug on child care was a ruse too.
I throw up my arms.
Comment by Austin Blvd Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:20 am
It’s arguable whether the commenter is reaching the right conclusion. What’s not arguable is that he’s the only one who feels or thinks this way. Not recognizing other perspectives is how you lose elections. And then act surprised.
Same article was posted here. There’s more than one choir.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:21 am
Rich, why do people think the state has to be destroyed in the name of progress? Do they not know that when you destroy the State, you destroy its’ people (taxpayers, public services, etc.)?
Comment by Mama Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:21 am
As compared to 1990, the state spending has increased 3x - that’s accounting for inflation and population growth.
Do we really think this is just a taxation problem?
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:22 am
Different type of blog, hence different type of commenters. I’m assuming there are more private sector workers on Crain’s compared to public sector workers. And vice versa
Comment by Almost the Weekend Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:23 am
Don’t underestimate the number of people in Illinois who firmly believe that widespread human suffering is more than an acceptable price to pay for keeping their state income rate under 4%.
Comment by Dance Band on the Titanic Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:25 am
Some people would rather “shake things up” than win. I haven’t heard one of the Total War advocates articulate a path to victory that isn’t based on the fantasy that the Democratic base will abandon Madigan to join hands with a Governor who wants to obliterate them. He had a mandate for change and instead of using it to pick off Democratic constituencies on issues that he could marshal public support behind, Rauner’s attacks have fused them together.
Comment by Century Club Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:26 am
It’s silly to suggest that Union’s are the cause of so much of what is wrong with Illinois but there are more than a few people out there that believe the same nonsense as this Farkas fellow does.
My wife and I had dinner with another couple last night. During conversation the state’s budget problems and the Governor’s name came up. The gentleman across the table, my brother in law, is a very bright guy but I never hear him discuss politics much but he seemed very well informed in what is going on and he was aware of the fact that the Governor is the one holding up the budget process because of his list of non budget demands. Now the Governor may be an ideologue like this Farkas fellow is but my brother in law made one point you can’t dispute. That is that once Rauner leaves office and goes back to the business world his profit margin will go up if he is successful in pushing through his proposed agenda which will strip away the rights of workers.
Comment by The Dude Abides Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:26 am
Once Rauner sold his Raunerite thought process and won, the voices are becoming louder, maybe not smarter, to what they believe, even if the facts don’t make their beliefs true.
Raunerites think it’s worth destroying the state, because Bruce Rauner believes it too, and won, and is trying to “destroy” Illinois right before our very eyes, calling it leverage, hoping that those who have Illinois’ best interest at heart cave… so Rauner can get his Turnaround Agenda.
Comments like this one are unintended consequences of Rauner winning with “their” theme.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:26 am
The state has been run like an organized crime syndicate for decades…
For decades? How many decades has Illinois been run like an organized crime syndicate? Who’s in jail for running Illinois like an organized crime syndicate - after decades? Is he telling us that Jim Thompson headed a crime syndicate? Or Jim Edgar? This comment is utter nonsense and conspiratorial.
…it will probably get worse before it gets better. Worse than being run like an organized crime syndicate? How could that happen? History usually shows that when organized crime syndicates are broken up - good things happen, not worse things. How could he describe a decades long organized crime operation running the US’s fifth largest economy, being brought down and bad things happening as a result? Shouldn’t the Federal Government investigated all these years that Illinois was being run so illegally? Peter Fitzgerald was involved? Bipartisan corruption? And no one launching a single investigation?
The single biggest factor in this state’s downfall is directly correlated to the Democratic politicians and their collusion with unions. Forget the national economy, and the plummeting union memberships over the past sixty years, the single biggest factor is still those unions!. This kind of thinking comes from a mindset similar to what the Germans believed about non-Christian citizens, regardless of any relevant facts clearly proving the opposite. To this guy, unions have replaced synagogues and gypsy camps as the SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in our DOWNFALL! The facts that union membership hasn’t been this low in a century, doesn’t absolve unions from their absolute power within Illinois.
We have no other choice, and if you think the economy is bad now, keep heading down the road we’re on with none of Rauner’s reforms and the state will be in receivership within 5 years. We have no choice? Who in their right mind would ever say anything like that? This is government, you are a citizens - there are always choices. The goal is to select among the majority of voters, the choice best reflecting their will. To suggest that we have NO CHOICE suggests that this person feels completely helpless, has abandoned their role as a citizen within a representative democracy, and just wants hellfire and brimstone to fall upon the heads of those he blames for his all his woes.
Hey dude - you sold out on us and now want a Napoleon Bonaparte to do your will. You stink.
Comment by VanillaMan Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:28 am
Warmongers are always on the side of angels, and the other side are demons.
Seriously, virtually every statement of the commenter can be shown by real-world evidence to be either false, or greatly exaggerated. But that could be said of many on both sides.
Comment by walker Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:29 am
Rich -
I’d say that the True Believers on the Tea Party side of the aisle want this war.
The liberal side, I don’t think so.
That was Pat Quinn, he got ousted.
Ironically, the True Believers wanted the CTU strike too.
They learned nothing.
And the True Believers in the CTU learned the wrong lesson.
They actually are itching for another strike.
Comment by Juvenal Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:29 am
There are a lot of people out there who see parents who received child care assistance more as welfare recipients and deadbeats.
Next, these people will be calling for drug testing to prove them worthy of receiving their benefit.
Comment by Austin Blvd Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:29 am
“…Democratic politicians and their collusion with unions…”
As opposed to Rauner’s collusion with out-of-state millionaires to pad his war chest?
Comment by Nick Name Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:30 am
And yet, Speaker Madigan was the first to label this an ==epic struggle== months ago.
It seems as though a few on both sides want this war, judging by their language. And that includes Gov Rauner’s.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:31 am
—Union money is collusion eh? Corporate money buying looser regulatory controls is what then?—-
The difference is that corporations still have to comply with federal laws and regulations (that offers a check and balance). Where is the check and balance when Democrats are setting the compensation rates for their donors?
Comment by Downstate Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:32 am
===What’s not arguable is that he’s the only one who feels or thinks this way.===
Yes, there are a lot of people with an overly simplistic idea of what is going on. They’ve been fed a bunch of ideological nonsense and they’ve created a cartoonish image of what is really happening in Springfield.
Spend some time at the Capitol and talk to legislators from all corners of the state. Get to know them as people. Learn a bit about the complexity of how certain policies came to be in the first place, before you attempt to un-do those policies. Then the cartoon image disappears and you get a clear picture of what is happening and why.
Organized crime syndicate? What a moron.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:32 am
Rich “scarface” Miller. Well known Illinois mobster. Personally received millions from the Illinois Democrat mob family ruled by Mike Madigan. (Intended to be humorous)
Comment by Niblets Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:32 am
I wonder how Glen Farkas feels about state services such as crime labs, state police, snow plows on expressways, etc.? Those haven’t shut down yet. Apparently he’s not needing meals on wheels, STD testing at the health department, or mental health services.
It’s easy to think that things you don’t personally need aren’t needed by anybody. I wonder how he’d feel if his mother’s homemaker services stopped?
Comment by Aldyth Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:33 am
==when you destroy the State, you destroy its’ people (taxpayers, public services, etc.)?==
Every ==war== has victims.
To those locked in this ==epic struggle==, these victims are ==collateral damage==. The generals will worry about them when the ==war== is over.
What a sad power play by our leaders in both parties and their enablers.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:35 am
Two points.
First - any elected official who just assumes things are just fine and dandy needs his or her head examined. Sadly, sometimes it takes elections to make people realize such foolishness.
Second - as has been stated before, do a majority of people in this state feel a pinch due to the budget showdown? If not, then commenters on here can’t just assume that the average voter has to care or be concerned. A lot of newspapers and news outlets are going out of their respective ways to highlight people and groups impacted by the impasse, but does that work and do people truly care other than to mutter some generic concern for those affected? I don’t know. We’re a year away from the 2016 elections and voters have short attention spans.
At the federal level, a government shutdown is a political nightmare for both sides - hence why CRs have been so common for the last 5-10 years. But we’re in new territory at the state level because a) we’ve got no literal operating budget and b) payments are being made by court orders (and not the standard approp and BIMP processes). And a theoretical federal shutdown means that our military personnel and seniors pay and benefits are in trouble. We don’t have that here since state workers, teachers and retirees are still receiving their pay and benefits.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:37 am
@Downstate-10:22am. Nope, and if we can really push all the aging elderly out of the state and the young up-and-comers’ children in city charter schools we might just have a chance.
Comment by Losing My Edge Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:38 am
Hence my use of the past tense above.
Comment by Me too Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:39 am
Mr. Farkas may be right…he makes some good points. But Rauner is going about it in a wrong and bull-headed way. He doesn’t seem to understand that being patient and learning the art of compromise may be a preferred road to positive change.
Comment by Deep South Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:46 am
Team Sleep: Smart comment at 10:37, (as usual.)
Let me add: the court actions requiring that great numbers of people be paid at last year’s levels, is saving Rauner’s bacon for the time being, by delaying the potential widespread pain. Disastrous on the budget numbers, and the ability to recover even to the levels Rauner proposed, but that’s apparently for later discussion.
Comment by walker Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:47 am
==in city charter schools==
Check today’s reboot story on Chicago charter school compared to other non-selective schools in the city.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:47 am
Interesting how the truly wealthy try to paint those low/middle wage earners, some of whom are in unions, as the corrupting force behind the state of our economy. Who are these union people earning $54 million like our governor and his cronies? If this whole thing is not class warfare, then I’m buying my 10th house on my union scale waqges. Millionaires, all of us!
Comment by AnonymousOne Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:47 am
=The difference is that corporations still have to comply with federal laws and regulations (that offers a check and balance).=
Have these regulations and laws ever been dismantled or “restructured” to the direct benefit of donor corporations?
=-Where is the check and balance when Democrats are setting the compensation rates for their donors?=
Please explain the process of the legislature setting compensation rates for union employees
Comment by Qui Tam Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:48 am
Rich, a while back I started reading the comments on Greg Hinz’ columns and , given the quality of the publication and it’s readership, I was astounded that there were almost as many wackos commenting on there as on most newspapers
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:48 am
– It’s arguable whether the commenter is reaching the right conclusion.–
– Rich’s article is a ruse.–
Really, Guy, that conclusion is arguable, that there’s this organized crime conspiracy running the state and Rich is on it?
Many people think the moon landing was faked. Are there conclusions “arguable” as well? Or just nuts?
Isn’t the point of the “intellectual discourse” you claim to love a search for truth and not just attaching equal validity to any fact-free crackpot theory that comes along?
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:48 am
What frustrates me about commenters like Glenn is the constant “doubling down”. Heaven forbid they own up to a single failed prognostication before jumping to the next one.
Comment by Jocko Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:48 am
== The true believers want this war. ==
Very sad, and spreading judging by this years elections. Apparently the ‘It’s All About Me’ mantra is all the rage now. Very sad.
Comment by sal-says Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:51 am
those are code words for destroy the middle class and let the rich get richer. I am not one to evoke class warfare and I think in this great country getting rich is awesome, but it needs to not be done at the expense of the middle class. The huge divide between rich and the middle class keeps growing and I can’t believe the key to Illinois success is to destroy unions and everything will be ok. How about we get rid of the structural deficit and create a certain and steady climate for business.
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:52 am
Walker - very true, and thanks for the nod.
Steve - my take on that is simple. I would bet that a lot of those commenters are from other states and are following a link from Drudge or a similar conservative aggregate site. Just my two cents, but once Drudge and RedState started linking articles on The Hill (as an example) the comments were a bit…off.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:52 am
Eric Hoffer warned us to beware of the Man on the White Horse. It appears our governor sees himself as that man.
Comment by In Memory of Eric Hoffer Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:53 am
Rich’s headline, though, addresses a bigger point.
There are opposite opinions on several issues. No offense to some people on this site, but I wonder if some commenters grasp that. There are an awful lot of comments crammed full of insults and hyperbole. Granted, those are not the norm/majority, but there have been a lot more of those comments and stances since a certain Bruce Vincent Rauner announced his intentions to run for Governor.
One thing I hate about Facebook is the cherry picking of sites, articles and memes that favor one’s opinion. That hurts relationships and causes - not helps. But it also highlights how little people seem to realize/remember that there are other sides to be considered and how often we zip up in a proverbial cocoon and decided to plug our ears like Pee Wee Herman did.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:57 am
“…and if you think the economy is bad now…”
“The U.S. Department of Commerce and its Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) recently released its statistics on gross domestic product (GDP) by metropolitan area for 2014. The BEA determines the statistics for each metropolitan area as the sum of the GDP originating in all industries in the area. The data is the sub-state counterpart of the nationwide GDP. It is the most comprehensive measure of economic activity.
We built a map to provide a 3D visualization of the GDP by metropolitan area, seen below. The higher the cone rising out of the map, the greater the GDP in that area. In analyzing the data, we found that the top 20 metropolitan areas represent over 52% of the total GDP in the United States. GDP grew 2.3% for all metropolitan areas in 2014, after increasing 1.9% in 2013.
As shown by the map, the New York metropolitan area, which includes Newark and Jersey City, lead the country with $1.5 trillion in GDP. The area had GDP growth of 2.4% in 2014. The New York metropolitan area provided almost 10% of the total GDP for the entire country.
The Greater Los Angeles area was second with $866 billion in GDP, with an increase of 2.3% over 2013. This was followed by the Chicago metropolitan area with $610 billion and growth of 1.8%. In fourth was the Houston metro area with $525 billion. Dallas, another Texas metro area, had $504 billion in GDP.
We also broke down the GDP by state. We calculated that the top 5 states contributed 40% of the overall GDP for the United States as follows:
•California: $2.11 trillion, 13% of overall GDP
•Texas: $1.46 trillion, 9.5% of overall GDP
•New York: $1.28 trillion, 8.4% of overall GDP
•Florida: $769 billion, 4.8% of overall GDP.
•Illinois: $680 billion, 4.3% of overall GDP.
One important factor for GDP appears to be the population for both the state and the metropolitan areas. New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Houston are the five most densely populated metropolitan areas in that order. Further, California, Texas and New York have the highest populations by state in that order. There appears to be a relationship between GDP output and the population for a geographical area.
The largest metropolitan areas contributed the greatest amount of GDP for the country. According to our analysis, the top 20 metropolitan areas contributed over half of the United State’s GDP. The New York metropolitan area contributed nearly 10% to the GDP by itself. In terms of a breakdown by state, the top 5 states contributed around 40% of the entire country’s GDP. California alone contributed over 13% of the total GDP for the country.”
http://howmuch.net/
Comment by Loki Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:59 am
==Check today’s reboot story on Chicago charter school compared to other non-selective schools in the city. ==
I did. Great article. I don’t necessarily agree with all of it’s conclusions but really appreciated the analysis and hope there’s more where that came from.
Comment by Losing My Edge Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:59 am
But but but, just a few weeks ago the Governor was telling us how the Democrats had pushed through bills that were counter to the unions interests before he was in office. Now I don’t know what to think. /s
Comment by Juice Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:00 am
==keep heading down the road we’re on with none of Rauner’s reforms and the state will be in receivership within 5 years.==
He failed to explain how Rauner’s reforms would solve the debt problems in this state. Though his hero, Rauner, can’t explain this either.
Comment by Wensicia Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:00 am
Yes to what VanillaMan says @ 10:28.
This is what happens when people are taught to read, but never receive instruction in either ethics or logic, and are never clued in as to how dependent we all are on the greater community and the social contract. This commenter may be moderately articulate, but he exhibits all the moral development and social understanding of an anti-social seventh-grader. Real “Lord of the Flies” stuff.
Comment by Crispy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:04 am
Whole lot of people out there who think like Mr. Farkas. Stubbornly refusing to change things in Illinois is only adding to the numbers of Farkas’ out there.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:06 am
First
Mr/Ms Loki — so Chicago has $610 billion of the IL $680 — does not leave much for the rest of IL that does not want to run by the mobsters.
Then
Mr/Ms Farkas you make it sound like only Ds want union…history tells you that is flat out wrong> It was the GOPies who gave groups like AFSCME and IEA big legs up in this state in the 70s and 80s.
The union manage to out bargain the govt now you have good salaries and great benefits while the general public has been plundered by the 1%ers.
Now the 1%ers must turn their sights on the public unions —- cause they outsourced the jobs.
Taking out the unions will also help with slowing all those awful regulations — like bankin’ laws.
Comment by Anonin' Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:10 am
Louis: Gimme a break. How many times have we said here the impasse is not “stubbornly refusing to change?” The impasse is stubbornly refusing to do it Rauner’s way. Sheesh.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:10 am
=== Team Sleep - Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:57 am:
Rich’s headline, though, addresses a bigger point.
There are opposite opinions on several issues. No offense to some people on this site, but I wonder if some commenters grasp that. ===
TS, you’re spot on. No need to wonder about whether some grasp it. They clearly only see what they agree with. Kudos for Rich for identifying an opinion different than his own and realizing there are many views to the prism of government, not merely one or two.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:10 am
Faith narratives, I believe, are constructed, maintained and protected in order to address deep aspects of ones life experience. I can’t tell you what has touched Glen Farkas’ life but I have experienced a lot of folks who have been scarred by economic inequality/fairness holding similar “faith naratives”. In my experience they react viscerally to being called “privileged”, to the percieved privileges of others, ie union benefits, and challenges to the capitalistic/individualistic success narrative. It’s a faith narrative because faith transcends fact or evidence. They believe it with everything because they feel that without it they might be nothing. Their faith narative has become a “self object” (a key concept in the Self-Psychology school) To challenge the narrative is to challenge their very concept of themselves. It’s why education isn’t going to work. It’s why “again, again, again, AGAIN” is going to keep happening.
Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:12 am
Lots of folks are sure they don’t want their tax dollars to go for anything but police, roads and military. When you look at things that way, the less gubmint, the better.
Comment by Austin Blvd Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:16 am
@Skeptic, are you telling me that no one has ever referred to Speaker Madigan as “stubborn?” Ever?
A new Governor from a different political party. Elected a year ago! The three branches of Illinois’ lawmaking is no longer under the control of one political party headed up by the Speaker of the House.
Yet, here we are a year later, and still there are many who refuse to acknowledge this basic fact and refuse to work within that reality.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:17 am
@ Ghost:
Funny you should mention State Farm:
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2015/02/11/state-farm-coo-new-richardson-hub-move-in-ahead-of.html
The impact of this sly move and the closing of the Mitsubishi plant will devastate the Blooming ton-Normal economic base. Mix in a lack of funding for ISU, and the area will continue to circle the drain. You are witnessing the hollowing-out of the Illinois economy.
I guess this is all Rauner’s fault/snark
Comment by Jockey Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:17 am
===Whole lot of people out there who think like Mr. Farkas.===
A whole of people out there who think like Ben Carson too. That doesn’t mean Farkas or Carson are right though, does it?
Louis, do you believe the state has been run like an organized crime syndicate too?
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:18 am
TS, Guy, that’s just a goofy straw man.
Do you really believe there are people, anywhere, that don’t realize there are differences of opinion, on everything?
Questioning and deconstructing the validity of an opinion is not the same as denying that it exists. In fact, the opinion must exist to question it.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:21 am
Odds he’s related to the Farkuses of Hohman, Indiana?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgagC4pUmQo
Comment by Harold's Left-wing Dinner Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:24 am
Louis: I never said Madigan wasn’t stubborn. In fact, what I said was that he *is* stubborn (did you even read what I wrote?) What I *did* say was that your implication that the Turn Around Agenda was the *only* possible avenue of change (and refusing to adopt it is thus a refusal for change) is flat out wrong.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:25 am
==I don’t necessarily agree with all of it’s conclusions but really appreciated the analysis and hope there’s more where that came from.==
Took the words outta my mouth. Well said.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:29 am
In the category of facts are stubborn things: By the most objective overall measure, Gross Domestic Product Per Capita, the economy of Illinois is in good shape, ranking 16th in the nation and almost 10% above the national average. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita
The problem is not the overall economy. It is the public sector economy, which is being strangled by a regressive tax structure that Republicans want to make worse, and Democrats have been afraid to make better. And that is the great failure of the Speaker. Some members of his party have been willing to take on reform of the tax structure, but he at first opposed them, and later declined to support them. The tragedy is that if the public sector moves from damaged to broken, it could begin to significantly damage the private sector as well, and this wealthy state could spiral into someplace not much worth living in.
Comment by jake Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:29 am
“Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 10:28 am:”
It was not the Germans. It was their government and they also wanted to eventually wipe out Christianity and have the people believe in the occult.
I would not blame all Illinois citizens for Rauner and own State government.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:31 am
- Skeptic -,
Don’t be too hard on - Louis G Atsaves - or even - A Guy -
They have to find a way to say the comments are “crazy” …without alienating the Raunerite base’s belief system.
It’s tough. Parsing an excuse is tough.
To the Post,
When people think things that elected officials empower, they feel empowered to embrace and propagate their thoughts as true, no matter what side of the political spectrum (far left abd far right) they fall.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:32 am
wensicia: and he is obviously ignorant of the fact that Illinois can’t go into receivership
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:32 am
- Whole lot of people out there who think like Mr. Farkas. Stubbornly refusing to change things in Illinois is only adding to the numbers of Farkas’ out there. -
I’m with Louis. Let’s start by making the Chair of the Illinois Workers’ Compensation Commission an elected position, rather than a political appointment subject to this corrupt patronage.
Because, reform, right Louis?
Comment by Daniel Plainview Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:37 am
“The unions will never give up their golden goose w/o a fight and the Democrats can’t offend their primary donor base and election workforce.
The people that belong to these “mobster unions” are citizens of Illinois and voters. Rauner won election without telling anyone what his plan is until after the election. If he had run on the agenda he has hard-lined since the election, Quinn would have won. The citizens of Illinois elected super majorities in both legislative bodies because unions have wide-spread support in Illinois.
Since you are so opposed to union involvement in elections, are you also opposed to the large sums of money being dumped into the electoral process by corporations & millionaire/billionaire 1%ers? Do you suppose that some of Illinois economic problems would be lessened if business & the wealthy paid their fair share of taxes? Many pay no tax at all.
Comment by AFSCME Steward Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:42 am
“the state will be in receivership within 5 years”
Any graphic designer out there want to buy computer equipment? Lots of it.
Attitudes like Rauner’s and the commenter’s, which are strikingly similar, justify unions fighting back and not appearing as if they’re overreacting. They are attacking thousands of good people who band together to provide a decent livelihood for their loved ones and themselves.
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:48 am
=== There are opposite opinions on several issues. No offense to some people on this site, but I wonder if some commenters grasp that. ===
Despite your assertion, everyone is aware that others have differing opinions. The debate is over the validity or appropriateness of those opinions. People were prosecuted for believing the sun was at the center of the solar system. Was that prosecution just and that belief wrong because it was a minority opinion?
Farkas doesn’t get a pass for a goofy comment simply because others have the same uninformed opinion.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:49 am
Louis G. Atsaves
“Yet, here we are a year later, and still there are many who refuse to acknowledge this basic fact and refuse to work within that reality.”
The basic reality also is that the Democrats have a super majority in both houses. When is Rauner going to start working with that reality?
Comment by AFSCME Steward Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:56 am
“fyi State Farm is about the size of the state of illinois. they have better benefits and pay. and yes they have a defined benefit plan just like the states, But their employees dont contribute any money to it. so the state compensation is actually less then comporable size companies in Illinois. not much of a golden goose. state compensation is way below that of chicago board of trade employees…..”
—————
Ghost, using State Farm as an example of making your case is probably not a good example.
First off, they do a great deal of outsourcing. A substantial amount. Secondly, State Farm is currently relocating large numbers of employees out of Illinois to regional hubs. That’s been an ongoing process for the last several years.
I’d bet that if you gave Governor Rauner the option to treat state employees exactly the same way as State Farm treats their employees in all facets, he’d jump at the opportunity.
Public sector unions like AFSCME would probably be in a towering rage over such a deal.
Comment by Judgment Day Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:56 am
Meanwhile in realityland:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20151027/NEWS02/151029869/illinois-workers-comp-costs-fall-below-indiana-wisconsin
Comment by markg8 Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:57 am
And this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-illinois-job-growth-1104-biz-20151103-story.html
Comment by markg8 Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:58 am
Those that claim about the election of Rauner to shake up Springfield forget that voters elected another branch of government with an overwhelming majority of Democrats. What message did that send..
Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 11:58 am
@Daniel Plainview and @47th Ward, my only comment is that there are a whole lot of Farkas’ out there. And they are growing in numbers in my humble opinion. Those of you who are in denial that the Farkas’ of this State exist and growing need to get out more and talk to folks with views that differ with yours. Join a bowling league or something.
Do I agree with his over the top language? No more than I disagree with the anti-Rauner over the top language.
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:00 pm
FWIW, I think “A Guy” deserves some credit as he’s gradually toned it down since the heady days of Rauner’s ascension last November. Admittedly Slinger and Willie have repeatedly cooked his goose, but I applaud his more humble bearing and modest (if misguided) discursive forays.
Comment by SomewhereBetweenHere&There Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:02 pm
We seem to have lost sight of the fact that our Governor agrees with this person that the unions negotiating for pay and benefits with politicians they can support or help defeat is a threat to the well-being of the state and the major cause of what ails us. Nothing short of changing that dynamic will be acceptable to the Gov as a condition of ending the conflict.
Comment by not so simple Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:03 pm
===”The basic reality also is that the Democrats have a super majority in both houses. When is Rauner going to start working with that reality?”===
Cooperation is a two way street. How is the current system working out?
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:06 pm
===”Those that claim about the election of Rauner to shake up Springfield forget that voters elected another branch of government with an overwhelming majority of Democrats. What message did that send..”===
That blatant one party gerrymandering of legislative districts works?
Comment by Louis G. Atsaves Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:08 pm
===Cooperation is a two way street. How is the current system working out?===
It’s up to Rauner to cobble his 60/30 or 71/36.
That’s what governors do.
Math is Math.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:08 pm
===That blatant one party gerrymandering of legislative districts works?===
Worked well for Madigan, beating a GOP map 4 out of 5 times, those 4 were in a row.
Rauner isn’t a victim.
What else ya got?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:11 pm
===”The basic reality also is that the Democrats have a super majority in both houses. When is Rauner going to start working with that reality?”===
>>>Cooperation is a two way street. How is the current system working out?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:14 pm
Louis G. Atsaves
“Cooperation is a two way street. How is the current system working out?”
How is refusing to negotiate on the budget cooperating?
As I recall, in the spring, most if not all of Rauner’s initiatives were called up for a vote. They did not get a single vote. Voted down unanimously. What compromises has Rauner proposed since then?
Comment by AFSCME Steward Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:15 pm
Trying again…
===”The basic reality also is that the Democrats have a super majority in both houses. When is Rauner going to start working with that reality?”===
>>>Cooperation is a two way street. How is the current system working out?
Ahhh…but Rauner doesn’t seek cooperation. He seeks capitulation by burning down the state, one university, and poor child at a time. Why would the GA (who as a Democrat I willingly admit has made many mistakes) ‘cooperate’ with a Mad Man?
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:15 pm
Word - yeah, I do. And, again, I see it a lot on this site. I have plenty of family members and friends who are so firmly entrenched on both sides that the refuse to listen to or acknowledge differing opinions.
This is one of the problems that directly relates to the incestuous nature of politics. So many people live in a bubble and refuse to believe there are differing opinions than their or their group’s own.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:17 pm
=== This is one of the problems that directly relates to the incestuous nature of politics. So many people live in a bubble and refuse to believe there are differing opinions than their or their group’s own. ===
So what to do? Sing Kum-bah-ya and get over it?
It’s one thing to have policy differences — I think everyone can understand that. It’s quite another to hold the entire Illinois State Budget hostage. Don’t we all agree that our universities should be open and educating our tuition-paying kids next semester??
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:25 pm
TS, your logic has abandoned you.
The very act of refusing to listen to or acknowledge an opinion requires that the opinion exist.
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:28 pm
12:25 - correct, but I’ve never been one to beat the “shut it down!” drum on here. I’ve openly bemoaned the fact that Rauner won’t cut out the CBA limitation demands to bring property tax relief. That alone could open the floodgates, and it’s a fairly bipartisan approach to an issue (escalating property tax bills) that apparently everyone agrees upon.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:33 pm
Word, with all due respect, you are one of the biggest bullies and smart alec commenters on this site. You routinely remind everyone how smart you are and then you throw people like A Guy under the bus. And there are quite a few people on this site who seem to insist that others be as concerned about certain issues and act angrily (or even retributive) towards those who caused or contributed to an issue or issues they support and want others to support.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:38 pm
And just so you know, Word, there is a lot of respect in my world for you.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:39 pm
==The impasse is stubbornly refusing to do it Rauner’s way.==
We know what Rauner is suggesting.
What reforms is Madigan suggesting? What is the Madigan TurnAround agenda?
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:39 pm
===What is the Madigan TurnAround agenda?===
Madigan, as a state Representative, did not run on “a”… “Turnaround. Agenda.”
That was Bruce Rauner.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:44 pm
FKA - my guess is that MJM’s “turnaround agenda” is literally turning around and winding up in the same spot as before.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:46 pm
- Word, with all due respect, you are one of the biggest bullies and smart alec commenters on this site. You routinely remind everyone how smart you are and then you throw people like A Guy under the bus. -
This is an adult commenting section, stop crying.
Comment by Daniel Plainview Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:49 pm
===Wordslinger - Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:28 pm:
TS, your logic has abandoned you.
The very act of refusing to listen to or acknowledge an opinion requires that the opinion exist.===
Being the smartest guy in every room on the planet has a price Sling. You’re paying it, but I’m doubtful you even know you are. No one on this site or any other I’ve ever visited is nearly as convinced his opinion is Mt. Sinai stuff more than you. For me, a commenting snob and a commenting moron isn’t much of a difference. I’ve seen you be both. Rauner won. You spent over a year saying he wouldn’t. Now, you’ve spent another year telling the rest of us idiots how wrong we all are in electing him.
Here’s a flash, Flash. He’ll more than likely win again. He’ll more than likely pick up some seats this time around. You’ll still moan. We just aren’t smart enough to keep up with you. So, we go on with our lives and elect the guys you disparage. The bubble life. It snows every day.
Comment by A guy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:53 pm
TS, like, that’s just your opinion, man.
And it exists. Whether I think it’s valid or not is another story.
Savvy?
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:56 pm
If the state were a business it could go into receivership. But states cannot go into receivership.
Comment by lost in the weeds Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:59 pm
Hard to argue that Illinois residents have not been well served by the Democratic politicians who have colluded with the unions for decades. They have overpromised on pensions at both the local and state level and not put in the required contribution. CTU head Karen Lewis spoke to the union at their annual meeting last week, with Speaker Madigan and President Cullerton in the audience. Did she call them out for their decades long dereliction of funding the pensions? Of course not, she called our Governor of 9 months a sociopath.
Comment by Lucky Pierre Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 12:59 pm
Blah, blah, tea party blah. Too much Koolaid dude. The patterned methods being to exhort lawmakers and the citizens of Illinois that cant fight back, to get a political agenda, are eligible for RICO charges.
Then il say told-ya-so.
Comment by dogbreath Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:01 pm
Guy, I spent over a year saying Rauner wouldn’t win? Really?
In the end, I believe I wrote Quinn would squeak out a victory, due to a late surge in published polls. But it’s ludicrous to make up a story that I did not think it was possible for Pat Quinn to get beat, by anyone.
It’s true, I post what I believe to be correct and true.
Do you not?
Comment by Wordslinger Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:04 pm
Sadly, there are several people with flawed thinking like this individual. They seem to think receiving 50% of the vote is some kind of a mandate for the supreme leader to by pass the G.A. to pass his extremist any-worker agenda. I’m not sure they would feel the same when a precedence is set and a Democratic Gov. decides to hold the state budget hostage to pass a carbon tax because the sky is falling. I’m sure they could argue that impacts the budget as well. No Governor R or D should ever have that kind of power.
Comment by GOP Extremist Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:11 pm
Daniel - crying is screaming “LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!” My post was not quite at that level. There should be a modicum of respect and level discourse on here.
Comment by Team Sleep Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:12 pm
= dogbreath - Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:01 pm:
Blah, blah, tea party blah. Too much Koolaid dude. The patterned methods being to exhort lawmakers and the citizens of Illinois that cant fight back, to get a political agenda, are eligible for RICO charges.
Then il say told-ya-so.=
Hello Rep Gohmert..
Comment by Mouthy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:13 pm
Great that TS had the stones to call it like it is on this site. I agree with him, guys like Word and OW are obviously smart guys. But disagree with them, and not have the last name Schnorf, and you are going to be attacked. What many here are pointing out is there are many who disagree with your views, and we are not just dumb, wackos, rubes, etc, etc. What we are is sick of business as usual in IL government. What many of us agree on is that BR’s push to crush unions is not what we want. What we do agree on is that something, anything, everything is needed to knock a majority group of legislators down a peg, to get them to acknowledge how their prognostications, or outright lies about how much money we needed for the future of their needs and wants, were wrong. What we want is a guy like MJM to stand up and admit, gee, maybe the financial planning we did was not very good, so maybe we can give a little. Maybe we shouldnt have overpromised everything, and instead should have been honset with citizens about what each of these things we want is going to cost them. But then, that doesn’t help come the 2016 elections, does it? While Dems in the GA spout off about the middle class, where have they left the middle class? Along with our prior GOP Govs, who absolutely are complicit in the whole thing.
And sorry, codifying by statute what already is the law by judicial fiat in workers comp is not “changing” or “compromising” on anything. People are tired of kicking the darn can down the road. No one “wants” it to get worse before it gets better - they recognize that those entrenched in benefiting from being connected to legislators (if not outright being one) are not going to change one thing about how they do their business without force. Sorry, believing that does not make one a Raunerite. And it doesn’t make people who feel that way evil people who just want to see children and disabled people suffer. People who say things here like, the Gov WANTS people to suffer - come on.
Comment by Kodachrome Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:15 pm
Lucky Pierre, I will argue it.
On multiple occasions Governor Thompson vetoed appropriations to the pension systems so that he could spend the money on other things. He also signed legislation increasing pension benefits without having a way to pay for it.
Governor Edgar worked with President Phillip and Speaker Daniels to change the way money was flowing to the Chicago Teachers Pension Fund. It was 100% funded at the time. Now where is it.
But yeah, it is all the Democrats and the corrupt union bosses fault.
Comment by Juice Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:18 pm
==Madigan, as a state Representative, did not run on “a”… “Turnaround. Agenda.”==
But he did run to become a state leader. Does he believe that no reforms are necessary and the state of the state is great?
Is the reason he suggests no alternative reforms because there are no reforms he supports?
He must have a few he is willing to go public on.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:27 pm
- FKA -
I have no idea what Speaker Madigan sees as a negotiated reform, except for the bills he ran through the Lower Chamber that Rauner called “shams”.
I mean, the most symbolic “thingy” that could pass as an example of why we are where we are is the property tax proposal that excludes the language detrimental to collective bargaining and/or prevailing wages for municipalities.
It’s the required pain to Unions, required by Rauner, is glaring.
It’s up to a governor to find his 60/30 or now 71/36. Rauner is choosing his way to leverage it. It ain’t working for him or Illinois.
The “sham” votes could be parsed to be “gives”, but Rauner wants HIS “wants”. Here we are.
Much respect - FKA -.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:34 pm
== They have overpromised on pensions at both the local and state level and not put in the required contribution. ==
If you put in the actuarilly required state contributions, you by definition did not over promise because the contribution is based on the promise.
You are half right … they did not put in the required contributions.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:38 pm
FKA: “Is the reason he suggests no alternative reforms because there are no reforms he supports?” You’re making a classic “straw man” argument.
“People who say things here like, the Gov WANTS people to suffer - come on.” I don’t know, when someone says “Crisis creates opportunity”, I’m not sure how else to interpret that.
“They have overpromised on pensions at both the local and state level and not put in the required contribution.” I’ll agree with half of that statement.
Comment by Skeptic Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:42 pm
@OW - likewise.
The choice between YES and NO we have been boxed into by our two dear leaders is no choice at all.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:44 pm
@Skeptic - grazie. It may be a unintentional straw man.
Reasonable, and public, alternatives to a few of Rauner’s reforms would do more to neutralize Rauner and permanently mark him as an extremist than anything else right now imho.
Give some in a few areas, introduce a few of your own that he does not expect but will have to accept, ignore the moot ones, and make it public. Reasonable stuff, like Rich has outlined in some of his columns, that most mainstream voters would support.
That is how you force Rauner’s hand, win votes and neuter him as an ==extremist== for the rest of his term. Not by trying to destroy him in an ==epic struggle== or digging in and just saying NO every time he says YES.
Maybe on November 18.
Comment by Formerly Known As... Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 1:55 pm
As those continue to support Rauner’s continued “standing up” for who or what or whatever…
“Hang In There” translate to this impasse, the choices, the court orders, the damage, the hurting…
… Rauner “Hanging In There” only works… only… only viable as a way if those telling Rauner;
“We believe your choice in doing this to Illinois is A-Ok”
Otherwise, “Hang In There” is useless, but to buy time to think how to fix Rauner’s disasterous first 9 months and find a way to save face.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 2:02 pm
==The unions will never give up their golden goose w/o a fight…==
A fight has been already been fought all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court. The workers won and will keep their pensions, both tier 1 and tier 2.
Comment by Enviro Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 2:26 pm
12:38 speaks the truth.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 2:26 pm
I’m a moderate independent and I don’t disagree with that guys comments.
Comment by Ahoy! Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 2:37 pm
The Crain’s Chicago Business comments are the mirror image of those found here. Neither group supports compromise.
Comment by Striketoo Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 2:48 pm
RNUG nailed it as usual — No one ever over promised on pensions but our state government (employer) under paid. The problem was not the “over” but the “under”. The one thing that all healthy well funded pension systems have in common, is an employer who always puts into the system the actuarially proper payment. The investment returns will work over time and the employee always pays their share out of their checks….on time every time. No pension system, regardless of promised pension payments, will be healthy if the employer does not properly fund it.
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 3:03 pm
The challenge, I suppose, is how to challenge a statement or opinion fairly, while maintaining this blog as a welcoming site for disagreeing commenters.
In Word’s defense (not that he needs mine), he is one of the best here for doing his homework and research. He clearly reads the whole pieces cited before commenting, and brings his own goods to the table.
Comment by walker Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 3:07 pm
Rauner needs to offer a balanced budget for debate. There is plenty of time to argue over tort reform, collective bargaining, workers comp term limits etc. These are issues for elections, and not for yearly budgets. Why any governor thinks they can get huge changes in these areas without first winning legislative elections is a fool. I don’t think I have every seen a hand so overplayed in my life. 71 is a big number and it matters along with the super majority in the senate. Rauner, get a budget done and then make the next legislative elections about your turn around agenda. Elections matter!
Comment by Facts are Stubborn Things Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 3:08 pm
“People who say things here like, the Gov WANTS people to suffer”
It’s not that the governor wants suffering, it’s just apparent that in his quest to strip union rights, suffering is a much lower priority. He is willing to sacrifice poor and sick people for his unattainable agenda.
If Rauner cared more for the people sustaining cuts, he would work on a budget deal he can get.
But that’s not Rauner. Rauner is like the guy in this thread. He hates public unions. Loathes them. What are people supposed to do when they’re the targets of such hatred? What are unions supposed to do when a few super-rich people–people who can retire many times over–want to pound them into nonexistence?
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 3:09 pm
It’s always darkest before it goes totally dark.
Comment by Colin O'Scopey Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 3:36 pm
Good thing the “true believers” didn’t get their way in October of 1962 in the Kennedy White House.
Comment by forwhatitsworth Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 4:05 pm
“And this:”
My, what’s going on here? More jobs are leaving Wisconsin and coming to Chicago:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20151105/NEWS05/151109894/sc-johnson-bringing-175-jobs-to-chicago
From the article:
“SC Johnson’s move is but the latest example of a firm seeking to take advantage of Chicago’s status as a global business center, one that’s able to attract tech-savvy and young workers.”
Some kind of business-killing hellhole, Chicago is.
Comment by Grandson of Man Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 4:12 pm
It is a psychological phenomenon called ingraining.
Misinformation is presented and then reinforced several times until it becomes fact.
That is why ALEC, the Koch brothers and Bruce Rauner heavily fund the State Policy network, of which the Illinois Policy Institute is the Illinois branch which spews out biased, self-serving and manipulative information which builds on previous ingrained conclusions to sway public opinion.
So now we have a battle of the informed versus those who have formed their opinion on a steady diet of propaganda.
Ideology is very difficult to change.
Comment by Chicago 20 Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 4:19 pm
- But disagree with them, and not have the last name Schnorf, and you are going to be attacked. -
I thought you Raunerites were supposed to be tough guys, yet you’re whining about mean comments on a website? Grow up.
Comment by Daniel Plainview Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 4:55 pm
- Daniel Plainview -
Trolls are gonna troll I guess.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 4:58 pm
Maybe one day Illinois Republicans will return to their core values and stop using “smart” as an attack word.
In the meantime, yeah, crybabies gonna cry.
Comment by crazybleedingheart Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 5:10 pm
Juice, it was done at the request of a Democratic mayor.
Strike, that’s just a silly comment. Most commenters on here are smart enough and state government experienced enough to know that compromises are almost always the way difficult problems are solved
Comment by steve schnorf Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 7:19 pm
Why not build up the quality of labor in our state? That’s what I would do if I were Governor. “Our vehicles don’t get recalled.” (Banned word)
Comment by PENSIONS ARE OFF LIMITS Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 7:28 pm
what % of the workforce is in a union? Ya that commenter is a banned word
Comment by foster brooks Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 8:48 pm
@ VanillaMan
You hit the nail straight on the head.
@Kodachrome
What Rauner is trying to pull reminds you of neo-fascism, one of the reasons why RICO laws exist in the first place.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 8:51 pm
“I’ve got this thing and it’s f$$$$$$ golden”
Comment by PENSIONS ARE OFF LIMITS Thursday, Nov 5, 15 @ 9:03 pm
Victoms that are being exploited?
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/heartland-of-darkness/?_r=0
Comment by lost in the weeds Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 12:33 am
+No pension system, regardless of promised pension payments, will be healthy if the employer does not properly fund it.+
That’s absolutely true. But it also helps if you use an actuarily-sound discount rate when calculating pension payments going forward, rather than using those based on past performance. I’ve heard IMRF is using 7.5%….what annuity in the world right now uses a discount rate greater than 3 or 4%?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 12:49 am
Kodachrome: That’s the most incoherent babble I’ve read here in a long time. You want to be good, but no, you can’t be good because you have to join Rauner in being bad. But you’re not bad, you’re good. You said so, so you must be good. But, but you must go along with Rauner and be bad, bad bad. But you don’t believe you’re a Raunerite, because really and truly you’re good. Sheesh.
Comment by Kodachromeless Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 12:59 am
Disagree - Kodachrome at 1:15 is expressing a universal belief among many, many taxpayers and voters right now, and there is much truth in his post. To conservatives, the fix for this state’s ills goes way beyond throwing more money at it. Unless of course, one happens to be the beneficiary of that additional money, then that particular cure would obviously be considered vunderbah. Not so much for the saps who pay it but do not benefit from it.
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 6:36 am
- Kodachrome - is a troll. Feeding - Kodachrome - feeds into the heavy mouth-breathing and misplaced “anger”, while a live it all.
“Example?”
===…No one “wants” it to get worse before it gets better - ===
“@RonSandack: I’m frustrated 2, but taking steps towards reforming IL more important than short term budget stalemate.”
The Owl wants it worse. Rauner wants it worse. It’s leverage. People are pawns.
- Kodachrome -, like the commenter in Rich’s Post isn’t bright in their processing, even if it’s a “popular” thing to think.
It was also popular to say the world was flat. Believing the world is flat doesn’t hurt the most needy, which - Kodachrome - wants(?)
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 6:55 am
===while a live it all.===
“while living a lie it all.”
===…and there is much truth in his post.===
There’s no “truth”, just lots off “get off my lawn!” talking points trying to excuse the want of hurting people.
Nothing more.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 6:59 am
I think it’s safe to say in any large and diverse community you’ll have a range of opinions and beliefs, from the rational to the loopy, that “a lot of people think that.”
That’s not a defense of the opinion. That’s what you say when you can’t offer up an intelligent and logical rationale for it.
It’s a corollary of “Perception is Reality.” We think it, therefore it is, despite all evidence to the contrary.”
Comment by Wordslinger Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 8:14 am
It was not the Germans. It was their government and they also wanted to eventually wipe out Christianity and have the people believe in the occult.
Check your history. Nazis came to power in 1932. Exterminationist solutions against non-Christians was publically promoted in Germany for decades earlier. It had gotten so bad that American Lutherans protested their German counterparts after their global conference there during the 1920s.
Comment by VanillaMan Friday, Nov 6, 15 @ 8:26 am