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State debt a Democratic talking point

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* Most every media outlet claimed that both sides essentially recycled all their old talking points yesterday. That’s mostly true, but the Democratic leaders did focus on something that they haven’t really highlighted much in the past…

“Put it all together, and Illinois is awash in debt. Awash in debt, at a time, where Mr. Governor, you have committed to spend over 100 percent, of the amount of money that you estimate will be available this current budget year,” [House Speaker Michael Madigan] said.

Before his “awash in debt” comments, Madigan also talked about the state’s structural deficit and its unfunded pension liability and then sharply criticized the governor for borrowing to pay for state operations. Afterwards, he noted that bond raters haven’t commented at all about workers’ comp reform, collective bargaining, the prevailing wage or whatever, and instead have focused their criticisms about the money coming into the state versus the money going out.

What he didn’t mention, of course, is that the House and Senate didn’t renew the income tax hike after the last election, which would’ve solved most of those problems.

* And…

House GOP Leader Jim Durkin disputed [Speaker Madigan’s] position, saying 12 years of unbalanced budgets passed under “total Democratic control” wrecked the state’s finances and drove away jobs.

Senate President John Cullerton responded that “speeches like that won’t help,” but then went on the attack himself, saying that Rauner’s refusal to sign off on tax hikes have “doubled” state IOUs after years in which Democrats had paid down debt.

Discuss.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:43 am

Comments

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.

Comment by Keyrock Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:46 am
Durkin also said “revenue is not a problem.”

Rep. Durkin, as a leader, owes the people of the state a simple, one-page summary, in broad spending and revenue categories, as to how he’d produce a balanced budget with current revenues.

If he can’t do that, he should go home and get his shine box.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:53 am
How completely disingenuous are you when referring to taxes not being the answer, when Rauner’s own submitted framework required, not optional, required a tax increase.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:55 am
==Illinois is on track to end fiscal 2011 with $8 billion in unpaid bills and other obligations, the state comptroller said on Wednesday.

“After years of hand-wringing about the state’s finances and deficit spending, here we are looking to end yet another fiscal year in the red,” said Comptroller Judy Baar Topinka in a statement.

The $8 billion owed to school districts, hospitals, social service agencies, as well as $1.2 billion due for state employee health insurance and $850 million in corporate tax refunds would match the amount of unpaid obligations the state had at the end of fiscal 2010, according to the comptroller.

Deferring payment of bills incurred in fiscal 2011 into fiscal 2012, which begins on July 1, would help perpetuate Illinois’ structural budget deficit despite a big income tax rate increase enacted earlier this year.==

Something something déjà vu.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:56 am
==What he didn’t mention, of course, is that the House and Senate didn’t renew the income tax hike after the last election, which would’ve solved most of those problems.==

Come on, we all know that the Governor-elect, asked the GA NOT to extend the tax increase. And if they had, Rauner would be using that as another talking and campaign point that the Dems raised taxes again. The GA did what Rauner wished, and then you are blaming the GA?

Comment by Joe M Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:58 am
Word, IPI does the GOP thinking nowadays. I’m sure Durkin would point to one of their bogus position papers.

Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:59 am
===How completely disingenuous are you when referring to taxes not being the answer, when Rauner’s own submitted framework required, not optional, required a tax increase.===

Naaaaah.

-ck

Comment by Anon Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:00 am
==Afterwards, he noted that bond raters haven’t commented at all about workers’ comp reform, collective bargaining, the prevailing wage or whatever, and instead have focused their criticisms about the money coming into the state versus the money going out.==

And all of those things have a major impact on both money going in and money going out. The sooner Madigan acknowledges that the better.

Rauner’s reforms are targeted at fixing the business climate which is driving both companies and tax payers out of the state (along with the revenue both generate.) We are hemorrhaging jobs and workers.

More jobs and more businesses mean both higher tax revenues at the same tax rate as well as less people using social welfare services (so lower spending).

Acting as if government budgeting is a mere accounting procedure divorced from broader policy is ignorant and below a man of Madigan’s accomplishments.

Comment by Political Animal Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:00 am
The leaders in the GA obviously don’t do anything because Rauner’s wants it. They act in their own self interest. In the case of the tax increase they want Republican fingerprints on it too.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:02 am
ANSWER PLEASE,

Can the house pass the HB4305 bill without senate ( effective immediately).

Do anyone know the answer.

Comment by budget please Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:02 am
Quinn never would have signed a tax increase in a lame-duck session. Not after the beating he took on taxes during the election.

He would have given a stirring, flowery monologue as to how the people had spoken by electing Rauner, and their will be done.

Speaking of elections, the last one was 13 months ago. Since then, the governor has already spent a couple of million on campaign-style personal image spots, yet has not produced a budget.

I think he likes campaigning; governing, not so much.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:04 am
===Quinn never would have signed a tax increase in a lame-duck session===

I disagree. He woulda signed it in a heartbeat.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:06 am
Set the personal income tax rate at 6.25% and the corporate income tax rate at 8.75%, and have these rates go into effect on January 1.

Comment by Roamin' Numeral Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:07 am
But what are the choices in an election year? Borrowing extensively vs. a tax hike, perhaps the restoration of Quinn’s income tax hike, or even higher.I don’t see Rauner agreeing to the latter, but I also wonder how these choices would poll with likely voters. Politicians don’t operate in a vacuum.

And I’ve heard little talk of other sources of revenue-service taxes, closing of corporate loopholes, taxing retiree income. Too controversial in an election year? Even one of these might be more than our GA could handle. Our GA where the Democrats prevail, I would note.

Comment by Cassandra Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:08 am
==Senate President John Cullerton responded that “speeches like that won’t help,” but then went on the attack himself, saying that Rauner’s refusal to sign off on tax hikes have “doubled” state IOUs after years in which Democrats had paid down debt.==

Ummm, Durkin’s remarks and Cullerton’s remarks were markedly different. Durkin basically put out a diatribe to demonize the Democrats, Cullerton responded with a reasonable hit on the Republicans, and really said some things that nobody else was willing to say.

–Budget please, I think you’re misunderstanding the situation entirely. It’s not the Senate that’s holding up that bill.

Comment by Losing My Edge Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:08 am
What 12 year period is Leader Durkin talking about? During roughly the final 4 of the Quinn administration, the budget balanced.

Comment by SAP Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:08 am
I seem to recall that during the preelection campaigning Rauner said he could increase funding for schools with no tax increases and that he could cut taxes. But he also said that he would detail his plan after he was elected. Still waiting for that detailed plan. Why would the GA not honor his request with respect to the tax increase? He said he had a plan. He still had some credibility then.

Comment by burbanite Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:11 am
It is interesting that the Dems focused on the debt accumulated over years, (which if anyone “owns” in the public mind, it’s them), and shifted the talking point to the Governor’s current actions adding to that debt rather than reducing it.

True, but too complicated a message IMHO.

The better new rhetorical shift heard from Madigan yesterday, caught and used by Riopell, was that the former “non-budget items” language has been replaced by “2016 Republican talking points” — in the sense that they shouldn’t be part of current budget negotiations.

Durkin is smarter than he showed yesterday. He must really feel powerless these days.

Comment by walker Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:11 am
Rich, you really think so? Why is that?

I don’t see him taking that beating and then letting Rauner off the hook so easy for dishing it out.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:11 am
Losing my edge

The house is do to vote on the bill today? So what movement can we look forward to.

Comment by budget please Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:13 am
My comment above: Sorry I didn’t read the first thread before this one, where Rich called it out also.

Comment by walker Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:13 am
Durkin was roundly unimpressive yesterday. It’s hard to tell whether he’s ignorant, disingenuous, can’t do math, or just following orders from the billion dollar wizard behind the curtain. I like Durkin, he’s an affable guy. He’s also allowed himself to be neutered politically within his caucus. If this Raunerite experiment doesn’t work out, the HGOP will be shopping for new leadership in the next couple of years.

Comment by out of touch Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:14 am
===Why is that? ===

Because it was the right thing to do. Simple as that. Say what you want about PQ (and I have, many times), but he knew right from wrong on stuff like this.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:15 am
House GOP Leader Jim Durkin disputed [Speaker Madigan’s] position, saying 12 years of unbalanced budgets passed under “total Democratic control” wrecked the state’s finances and drove away jobs.

So what has he and Rauner done since January to fix any of that? At what point does the current Administration feel they are responsible for the current problems we face?

There is a lot that could have been done without Bruce Rauner losing a single one of his talking points. He could have let the state finances continue to improve with the “Democrat’s” tax hike. He could have taken the time he needed to learn his job, to learn his job. He could have allowed Illinois to stabilize financially so we would be in a better situation when he had finally figured out what a governor’s job is.

He could have listened to anyone with more experience in government than he had. He could have welcomed the two Jims into his office and listened. He could have listened to Linda Lingle and how she was able to get things done in Democratically dominated Hawaii as a successful governor.

Problem is - Bruce Rauner thinks he is smarter than everyone, richer than everyone, and he thinks he knows more about finances than anyone because he knows how to strip a business and sell it for profits faster than McDonalds can make a Big Mac.

Bruce Rauner thinks he knows that anyone who questions him is a corrupted and ignorant insider who doesn’t know how to overlook the real problems facing Illinois.

He has no respect for a government he leads, consequently he is blowing up Illinois for our own good, believing that what is rebuilt after his destruction would be a vast improvement.

This governor is a missionary for a religion with himself as the prophet. That religion is to destroy the modern state so it can be replaced with a Rauner nirvana that will last centuries.

Comment by VanillaMan Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:16 am
- out of touch -

Rauner himself will dictate the Caucus Leadership.

Sad, but true.

There will be no changes as long as Rauner funds the GOP GA.

The only way leadership changes is if Rauner, himself, “suggests” it.

When Rauner bought the Caucuses, he got to choose the “Division Presidents” of Raunerites, Inc. and will continue to choose them until he doesn’t.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:19 am
ANSWER PLEASE,

Can the house pass the HB4305 bill without senate ( effective immediately).

Do anyone know the answer.

Can some one please explain to me.

Comment by budget please Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:21 am
Madigan’s point regarding Rauner’s commitment to “spend over 100% of available revenues” is important. It appears that a deal to fund the MAP program in exchange for release of the Moylan bill (local govt, lottery, 911 etc) might be in the works. If so, it would be a case where the MAP grants are funded, but the universities that host MAP students are not funded. Madigan feeding Rauner rope to hang himself.

Comment by out of touch Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:21 am
Rauner’s point is that no one including the “Two Jim’s ” has been fiscally responsible in Springfield for decades. No one has wanted to do the painful restructuring that is now required to pay off the pension debt and our accumulated bills. They can’t even get a majority to agree to raise taxes or cut spending.

Comment by Lucky Pierre Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:23 am
Thank you out of touch. I understand now.

Comment by budget please Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:26 am
budget please- The LIHEAP press conference just wrapped up. There is $40 million in funds that have not been released, and are not part of the GRF. I didn’t see LIHEAP mentioned in HB 4305. Maybe that is going to be added on today. There is no reason for the hold on these funds other than the tired old pressers from ck on “because no budget…”.

Comment by Anon221 Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:31 am
No bill can become law unless passed by both chambers and signed by the Governor. At least according to School House Rock.

Comment by burbanite Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:31 am
Rich, that’s some high praise. It’s academic, of course. Nothing can be down now but to get on with it starting Dec. 2, 2015.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:33 am
LIHEAP press conference:

http://livestream.com/blueroomstream/events/4551038

Comment by Anon221 Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:34 am
The reason for Durkin’ being unimpressive is quite obvious.
He had been relegated to Rauner’s spokesman / lapdog.
It must be painfully obvious even to him.

Comment by Austin Blvd Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:36 am
So Madigans talking point is the state is awash in debt after he has endorsed and signed off on virtual fiscal choice this state has made for the last 30 years?

Comment by Very Fed Up Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:41 am
Wordslinger:

Quinn promised the Daily Herald editorial board he would sign a tax increase even if he lost the election.

VFU -

As Rich and others have noted, the state was paying off its debts until Rauner demanded the expiration of the tax hike.

Rich -

Someone should remind Durkin that he and Tom Cross supported many of those Blagojevich budgets.

Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:48 am
Juvy, thanks, I didnt see that.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:49 am
@Political Animal, do you know if the Rauner administration, the IPI, or anyone else, has submitted a report for actuarial scrutiny to the legislature or anyone else, showing how much money the state would save if his turnaround agenda is implemented? Specifically, I would like to know how much money the state would save if the Prevailing wage and Collective bargaining items are passed. I think everyone deserves a chance to look at some honest numbers before agreeing to go along with the Governor on this.

Comment by The Dude Abides Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:49 am
PA, please show us how the state budget is a thermostat to control the state “economy.”

If it works that way, perhaps those same iron laws of economics can be applied in the fiscal realm on the national level. You wouldn’t even need the Fed and monetary policy, as there is no state equivalent.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:00 am
I mostly agree with Madigan, that the budget is the biggest problem right now. Too many people and businesses are put in harm’s way or already suffered harm because of funding issues. Plus, haven’t we had enough fiscal irresponsibility all these years?

“So Madigans talking point is the state is awash in debt after he has endorsed and signed off on virtual fiscal choice this state has made for the last 30 years?”

Who complained that his or her income tax was too low all those years, and that it was irresponsible and would greatly contribute to future problems?

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:21 am
–House GOP Leader Jim Durkin disputed [Speaker Madigan’s] position, saying 12 years of unbalanced budgets passed under “total Democratic control” wrecked the state’s finances and drove away jobs.–

Durkin is conveniently forgetting that the fiscally astute, conservative Republican George Ryan turned over to his successor a budget deficit of $5 billion.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-01-14/news/chi-030114blagodeficit5billion-story_1_illinois-40th-governor-ryan-appointee-democrats-pat-quinn

That the fiscal situation is somehow a result of total Democratic control is absurd. Illinois’ current pension system is a near complete invention of the GOP (Thompson and Edgar). The ill-advised Edgar ramps are paramount in any discussion of current finances.

To suggest as Durkin and the Illinois Policy Inst. is doing that the mess is owed entirely to 12 years of Dem control is pure fantasy.

Comment by Southern Dawg Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:30 am
Durkin was worse than unimpressive. He was nervous, shaky and sweating.

I thought Madigan and Radogno inspired the most confidence, while Cullerton was the most likable and trustworthy.

Rauner was a shade better than Durkin, but only because he set the bar so low.

Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:37 am
==Rauner’s reforms are targeted at fixing the business climate==

Redistricting and term limits have what to do with that exactly?

==We are hemorrhaging jobs and workers==

What hyperbole. You want to provide stats to back up your claims of this “hemorrhaging?” IF you want to make a point then make it with numbers instead of hyperbolic nonsense.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:40 am
Raising revenue cannot be the only answer here. And less I repeat myself, the stupid turnaround thing isn’t what I was talking about.

Comment by Blue dog dem Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:55 am
Kinda favor the cinematic image of Rauner leading his people across the Red Sea, but being the only person to make it to the far bank, before the water comes crashing in.

Comment by walker Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:09 pm
==The GA did what Rauner wished, and then you are blaming the GA?==

Was the ==/snark== on this comment forgotten?

The tax increase rolled back in 2015, just as it was supposed to when it was written, passed and signed into law by the ILGA, Mr Cullerton, Mr Madigan and Mr Quinn in 2011.

Governor-elect Rauner’s comments ==helped== them follow through on their plan to roll back the tax increase in 2015, but they ==own== the original decision and the decision not to extend it.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:33 pm
In addition, the 3.75% tax is still a residual increase over the 3.00% people were paying before the 2011 hike.

3.75% may or may not be enough, but it is an increase and leaves the state with more revenue than if the entire increase reverted to the prior level.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:47 pm
- FKA -,

Respectfully,

Had Rauner just kept his mouth closed, he wouldn’t “own” asking the tax to expire.

Rauner purposely asked, went out if his way to ask for the tax to expire.

Rauner owns the lack of revenue because Rauner just couldn’t stay silent. Rookie mistake.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:53 pm
==Raising revenue cannot be the only answer here.==

Nobody has ever said it was.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:30 pm
==Raising revenue cannot be the only answer here.==

The overdue bills won’t be paid with cuts in spending or a property tax freeze.

Comment by Enviro Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:38 pm
I found Durkin to be overtly hostile. Interestingly, Radogno did not speak in a hostile manner during the session with all 5. However, when she and Durkin came out to speak with the press, she too was hostile. Perhaps this came out of a “pep talk” with Rauner?

Comment by Former Hoosier Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:53 pm
Next meeting I am taking a shot every time Durkin says Democrat.

Comment by burbanite Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 3:04 pm
@Oswego Willy - imho this cake was baked in 2011, but Quinn, Cullerton, Madigan, Rauner and the GA are all part of the decision not to extend 5% after December 31 2014.

Respectfully

FKA

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 5:40 pm
Though Rauner is now the bakery ==owner==, handed over from Quinn, with bakers he can not fire.

Comment by Formerly Known As... Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 5:42 pm
- FKA -,

I hear ya, bud.

I’d be so much more sympathetic to your take had Rauner not done two very specific things, things he didn’t need to do;

1) Let the Tax expire and not comment at all after becoming Governor-Elect.

2) Not campaigning very specifically to to tax being required to expire, before he was Governor-Elect.

Both instances puts “now Governor Rauner” directly in the line of owning the lack of revenue, and it is purposeful.

With respect, as always.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 5:51 pm
OW and FKA: with respect, you’re both right. The Dems, (with GOP votes), set up the tax hike to sunset. Its fate was set in stone the day Rauner was elected, regardless of anything Rauner said or didn’t say. Rauner didn’t cause the tax increase to sunset; Rauner’s election did. That’s reality.

Agree with Rich that Quinn would have signed an extension even after he lost, but there’s no way any group in the GA would give him that opportunity.

However, by throwing his two cents in, Rauner foolishly gave some partisan Dems the opening to blame him for it. And over time the general public view is that Governors own everything distressing in the state.

Comment by walker Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 5:55 pm
- walker -

I would concur with your assessment.

I do wish, not at all directed at you - walker -, period, but the “owning” goes both ways for Governors. Governors also own the very positives their state is having during their term, and most, if not all, governors remind voters they are the governor during this good news being touted.

Governors own, the good and the bad. Sadly, this impasse has been so bad, the “bad” is all being touted, and owned by the current governor.

It goes with the Big Chair.

Much respect as always - walker -.

Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 6:05 pm