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If you’re feeling safe because there’s been no “mass shootings” as dramatic as the one Wednesday in San Bernardino, California or the one in Colorado Springs the week before, you’re simply not informed about how violent the state of Illinois has been in 2015.
Data from shootingtracker.com shows that according to the Reddit group that maintains the information, there have been 23 mass shootings in Illinois in 2015 alone. Shootingtracker.com defines mass shootings as incidents when at least four people are killed or wounded, including the gunman.
* The list…
The website is down as I write this, but you gotta wonder if many of these mass shootings are gang-related.
Whatever the case, and no matter what else has happened to the image of the police here in the past several weeks, the cops are doing a job that almost none of us would ever want.
All respect.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:14 pm
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Amen brother. The thin blue line.
Comment by Anonymous Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:31 pm
The United States averages one mass shooting a day.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence
Rather than going through the same old shallow, navel-gaving, maudlin exercise of crying and praying then forgetting about it until the next time, let’s start with the baby steps of insisting that current laws on the books taking away guns from the mentally ill are enforced right now.
Illinois already has a law on the books empowering the state to confiscate the guns of those who have have been found, after due process of law, to be a danger to themselves and others because of mental illness.
It is not being enforced.
The governor of Illinois, under the Constitution, has the responsibility and duty to ensure that the law is executed.
Gov. Rauner, what is your plan?
Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:33 pm
===Whatever the case, and no matter what else has happened to the image of the police here in the past several weeks, the cops are doing a job that almost none of us would ever want.===
Well said.
To the Post,
When you put into perspective that policemen are called, not because thibgs are swell, or to referee a hopscotch match, I respect the job they have. At times they are the ones running in to dangerous situations, when others would flee, as human instinct would require.
At no time do I feel the McDonald case is anything remotely close to police work being done to keep society safe. There are now 2 other instances where I know I am not at all pleased that justice is being served, and once more facts are found, or seen, truth will be seen.
Civilian law enforcerment should be respected and those members of law enforcement doing the job, enforcing the law, and doing it well within the law, I can’t thank them enough.
The scrutiny placed on CPD, absolutely warranted, does not take away the actual dangers of the profession, not does it remove the reality of the job that puts law enforcement in real, true, actual harms way, so others are safe because of them.
All respect.
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:37 pm
I’d like to second wordslinger’s specific proposal. It should be a plan both sides of the gun debate can get behind.
Comment by nona Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:39 pm
According to an article in today’s New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/us/how-often-do-mass-shootings-occur-on-average-every-day-records-show.html), the definition of “mass shooting” used by “congressional researchers and other experts who study mass killings is four or more dead”.
To me, that’s arrant nonsense. Because the shooter may have lousy aim we don’t call it a “mass shooting” no matter how many are wounded? Makes no sense.
Comment by JoanP Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:42 pm
I don’t know about gang related but the one in River Forest really suprises me. My God, jaywalking doesn’t happen in River Forest without permission. It’s a “family” town if you catch my meaning. We lived in Oak Park for many years. When we bought out house,our realtor had just sold a house in River Forest, a bosses house, with, I’m not lying, a soundproof room in the basement and a drain in the floor. Now I’m sure someone will find the article and quickly prove me wrong but I’m rather shocked by seeing River Forest on the list. Maybe it’s no longer a “family” town.
Comment by Honeybear Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:46 pm
This is a truly disturbing record of poor police work solving these mass shootings.
As I’ve said before, the police know who and where the gangs are. They know where they’re getting the illegal guns. They know where they make their money.
The only thing missing is the political and cultural will to do what is necessary, and legal, to take down the gangs.
It’ll be bloody and painful, but the alternative has been so much MORE bloody and painful for the people of Illinois.
Comment by Arizona Bob Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:48 pm
The ILSRA & CCW crowd will say, we need more guns!
Comment by Hedley Lamarr Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:50 pm
How many of these shootings were done by Syrian refugees?
Comment by Huh? Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:50 pm
Very disturbing, but not surprising. Wordslinger is absolutely correct.
It was reported either here or on another site that neither local law enforcement or the ISP are confiscating or investigating potential violations as required by current statutes.
“It is not being enforced.” Exactly.
“Gov. Rauner, what is your plan?” RTW, breaking the unions, castigating Mike Madigan etc., etc.,
Comment by illini Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:57 pm
My understanding is that this list includes any incident in which four or more people are injured, rather than killed, which is a wholly new definitional standard for “mass shootings.” That would explain this sudden alleged “spike,” when violent crime in America is half of what it was twenty years ago.
Dollars to doughnuts, nearly all - if not all - of the above incidents were gang-related. The kinds of mass, multi-person shootings seen sensationalized in the 24-hour news cycle are among the rarest of any crime. Twice as many people are stomped, kicked, and punched to death every year. In fact, your chances of dying from a peptic ulcer are probably about 8 or 9 times as high as your chances of being the victim of a spree shooter.
Incidents like the one in San Bernardino make the headlines because they arouse political debates that are good for campaign fundraisers, and because they make for great media ratings. Incidents like those likely listed above don’t really do either, or. So they’re ignored.
Comment by Paul Kemp Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 3:58 pm
Massive props to law enforcement working in the San Bernardino area. this is one example of how the “militarization of police” as a bad thing fails in the face of reality. all the tools were necessary.
and moving forward, yes, those big guns did damage, and no, they should not be in the hands of civilians. all sales were legal. and lethal.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:01 pm
- Wordslinger - has been a must-read during all the Post that Rich has had during the McDonald tragedy and taking each of the Posts to levels that make this Blog as special as it is. Reading, just reading and learning, has made me understand better. Thanks to all.
Once again, - Wordslinger - asks the question. What will be the answer, Governor?
Comment by Oswego Willy Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:04 pm
So 4% of the shooters have been identified. That’s a statistic I would expect to see from a so called “failed state” like Mexico or Brazil.
Comment by a drop in Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:15 pm
It is legal for someone on the terrorist watch list to buy a gun. why does the NRA continue to support this ridiculous loophole?
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:15 pm
Honeybear — Here’s the background on the River forest shooting
http://wgntv.com/2015/07/12/police-involved-in-critical-incident-in-river-forest/
Comment by Soccermom Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:17 pm
I just googled Champaign shootings and this is what came up……just in the last 90 days. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=3+wounded+in+shooting+in+champaign
Comment by dude Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:19 pm
Well said Rich. The video of the San Bernadino officer escorting folks out of the building is the pinnacle of good policing.
Wordslinger at 3:33 is spot on. I’d like to add that the laws against straw purchasing need to be strenuously enforced as well. Currently they’re rarely enforced.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:20 pm
Disclaimer: I am not exactly impartial on this topic. My best friend is retired city / county LE. In addition, one neighbor is active duty LE; two others are retired state LE.
I’ll start off by saying the two Chicago shootings, based on what we are told by the news media and video released to date, apparently should not have happened / been covered up.
It’s no excuse but the cops have a very tough job to do, often with minimal public support and less than optimal staffing and working conditions. They walk into situations, especially domestic and gang-related, where everyone, even the people who called them for help, can turn on them in an instance. After seeing enough of what I’ll call the underside of society, it is often hard for them to avoid the “us versus them” mentality.
They can try to walk a fine line but even when they use non-lethal force they are often charged with excessive force / police brutality. And let’s remember that, in a lot of cases, the officer has mere seconds to make a decision on how to react.
More staffing / community policing / funding can help reduce this problem, but it will not eliminate it. Full transparency can help. Unbiased review boards can help but they have to be unbiased; quite often the boards are either slanted all police or all people who don’t trust cops.
No way would I want their job.
Specifically to the post, I’d also like to know how many were gang / drug related as opposed to random violence.
Comment by RNUG Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:20 pm
–So 4% of the shooters have been identified. That’s a statistic I would expect to see from a so called “failed state” like Mexico or Brazil.–
Indeed.
Comment by Ahoy! Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:26 pm
Well, this site has some interesting presentations about Chicago: http://heyjackass.com/
Hey, I didn’t name it, but somewhat appropriate.
Comment by sal-says Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:29 pm
Glad my niece moved from Danville to Seattle, and another moved from Decatur.
Yet, I noted that the only identified shooter was from West Frankfort, deep in Southern Illinois. And only unknown shooters are from all the other incidents.
This is serious, yet neither the politicians, preachers or community groups are coming forward in any meaningful way!
Comment by illini Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:30 pm
Joan P 3:42, I noticed the definition in the NYT article also. By that one, IL hasn’t suffered one “mass shooting” yet; but hey, we’ve got 28 days yet to go in 2015.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:32 pm
I think more of those assailants are known than this data would suggest.
And I think we need to stop focusing on the “gang-related” vs. “non-gang-related” distinction. Many “gang-related” shootings wind up involving people who are not gang members. (Tyshawn Lee’s death was gang-related, for example.)
Comment by Soccermom Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:34 pm
John Lott was on CNN this am spewing his nonsense about how hard it is to get concealed carry in Cali and stating that more guns will help fight bad guns. ridiculous nonsense from a man who infamously used a fake name to give his work support on line. why he is even in the media as a key supporter of the side of the NRA is puzzling. more puzzling, why more guns means less crime is even considered as an argument.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:37 pm
And there is also the realization that 16 mass shooting deaths in IL from the shootingtracker definition compares to the nearly 900 fatalities on Illinois highways in 2015. I can’t think of many good solutions to bringing down the “16″ number other than the aforementioned enforcement of gun access to the mentally ill and addicted. I’d think that the remarkable improvement in trauma response and treatment has markedly improved the odds for both shooting victims and car crash victims over the last 20 years.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:38 pm
Amalia
As for the list don’t forget that is the same list that both Ted Kennedy and Nelson Mandela were on as well as an 8yr old boy. The list which is strongly opposed by the ACLU as unconstitutional. Http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html
The problem is the list goes of name not identity and there is no way to challenge your placement on the list. That is the key problem however it seems to be easier to ignore reality for a political point.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:44 pm
Wordslinger- gets it and nails it.
If many are gang related, solving them in the legal sense is always a challenge. These are not people who work with or trust the police. The are and extra-societal group in the sense that they will attempt to solve crimes themselves and will not report them or provide evidence unless it is somehow leveraged by law enforcement.
Long story short- it is not as easy as shutting them down given the requirements of our legal system (when followed) or a matter of simply knowing. They know who the members are, proving things is a different story. Much like crimes committed by the mafia families against one another.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:55 pm
I think Rich is right, most of these mass shootings are gang related.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:55 pm
It is crazy to blame the mentally ill for all shootings. I don’t have the facts, but I would bet money that a lot of shootings are NOT conducted by the mentally ill.
Comment by Mama Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 4:58 pm
Like many others, I would guess that many are gang related.
And that 22 of 23 still show the shooter as unknown doesn’t fill me with much confidence.
Comment by logic not emotion Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 5:02 pm
seems ignoring reality is what the NRA is doing very well!!!
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 5:05 pm
ISP would need another 50 troopers dedicated solely to FOID enforcement to even begin effectively enforcing the act. At least 50.
Comment by Han Solo Cup Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 5:14 pm
Mama- You are correct. Research shows that around 5% of shootings are carried out by the mentally ill. A mentally ill person is much more likely to kill themselves than they are to kill someone else. Guns belonging to someone with a verifiable mental illness can only be removed if they pose an imminent danger to themselves or others. By definition, imminent danger is time limited.
I’m a clinical psychologist and I cringe every time the press, politicians etc. profess that if we could just keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill we would solve the problem of shootings in this country. That makes a good sound bite but it does not hold up when you look at the research. The vast majority of people with a mental illnesses are not violent. In all my years as a practicing psychologist, I have only treated one patient who posed an imminent danger.
Comment by Former Hoosier Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 5:40 pm
When facing a horrendous mess which obviously cannot be solved in one fell swoop, pick up and try to fix the one or two pieces right in front of your nose.
First is Wordslinger’s suggestion. Second is quick and non-police review of every police shooting. Third would be a new and firm timeliness standard for release of dash cam recordings.
The deeper cultural and leadership issues will take years to fix. Straightforward process changes are always quicker, but have large impact.
Comment by walker Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 5:47 pm
I have zero facts, but I too suspect mostly gangs, and the majority done with already illegally gotten firearms.
Comment by Shemp Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 6:07 pm
===So 4% of the shooters have been identified. That’s a statistic I would expect to see from a so called “failed state” like Mexico or Brazil. === Fair to say most of our inner cities are more or less failed states, no?
Comment by Shemp Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 6:12 pm
Former Hoosier and Mama - thanks for your posts, disturbing as it relates to the national debates, and the politicians saying we should “pray” for an end to this senseless violence. Yet no calls for gun control or enforcement of existing laws.
I have nothing but contempt for the NRA and their misguided and misdirected campaign to control the debate on issues such as this.
The NRA is spending over $30 million in lobbying to make certain that even the loonies can buy AK-47s to protect their “property” and to protect themselves from the government.
Comment by illini Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 6:20 pm
illini- agree.
Comment by Former Hoosier Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 6:24 pm
Every time law enforcement uses a weapon, it needs reviewed. Full disclosure, no cover-ups or waiting after elections. I was held accountable in combat and if I misused my position and killed an innocent, I would have been held accountable under a more severe law that the police face.
I do not believe the majority of shooters are unknown by Police. The community knows where these are happening, and by who. Until the Police can show they have changed their culture, maybe the good people in these communities will feel safe enough to identify the bad players.
The good men and women on the force are who are suffering. They are the majority and are rolled up with the rest in how they are treated.
The mention of using the Terrorist Watch list to screen Firearm purchases amuses me. 95% of the people on that list are not US Citizens or legal US residents, already not allowed to own or purchase a firearm in the US. 5% of that list is composed of people who already convicted of crimes and on other lists that deny the purchase of a firearm and of those who have similar names to people who are terrorists or suspected terrorists. No due process is required to be included on the list, the FBI can nominate anyone for any reason, and suspected associations can land you there. No convictions of guilt required. Sounds nefarious to me.
Comment by FormerParatrooper Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 9:04 pm
I am sure the police know more of the shooters, but whether they have the evidence and/or willing witnesses to make a case stick is another story….
Comment by Shemp Thursday, Dec 3, 15 @ 11:14 pm
Just ran across this by accident a half hour ago. It seems the data source used for the Illinois Review story is a bit questionable. It looks like the Mass Shooter website plays a bit fast and loose with their data / classification / analysis. USA Today has their own analysis that doesn’t quite agree. Politifact rates the original story half true.
http://truthinmedia.com/fact-check-355-mass-shootings-far-2015/
Comment by RNUG Friday, Dec 4, 15 @ 12:58 am
“the cops are doing a job that almost none of us would ever want. ” Plenty of people want to be cops. Interesting work, decent pay, good pension, public accolades for being heroes, plenty of overtime and far safer than construction. It’s not even in the top 10 of dangerous jobs.
Comment by NoGifts Friday, Dec 4, 15 @ 5:58 am
Some of the shootings are caused by those who suffer from mental illness but refuse treatment. You can’t force someone to seek help even when it’s obvious that help is needed. Everyday we send law enforcement out to deal with individuals who engage in a shootout to end their lives. The River Forest incident has all the makings of “suicide by cop”.
Comment by nothingsurprisesme Friday, Dec 4, 15 @ 7:48 am
Honeybear, what was it about a drain in the basement that you found so spectacular? Most homes in the Chicago area have had these for over 50 years.
Comment by Curious Friday, Dec 4, 15 @ 9:47 am