45 Comments - RonOglesby - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 9:36 am: This just shows BOTH sides are playing this game. Yesterday the house had votes on funding a bunch of stuff in DC. Funny, most items were things the Dems begged for every year, this year they voted NO for the funding. Whatever happened to “lets vote on what we can agree on”? - Cassiopeia - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 9:40 am: Harry Reid has become a bit unhinged and may well blow the Democratic advantage in the showdown PR. - Empty Chair - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 9:50 am: The NIH issue is a loser for the GOP, and they’re silly for running full steam into it. Imagine you’re a GOP challenger to Enyart, and you pull this attack in the campaign. Enyart’s campaign will find some evidence of you supporting the sequester, which severely impacted the NIH and other medical research with significant cuts. So then the question becomes, do you TRULY support funding medical research, or do you just support it when it’s politically convenient for you? The ads write them selves. Voters hate politicians who try to have it both ways, and that’s what the GOP is doing with research money. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 9:50 am: From the polling data, it’s clear who’s losing in this issue: Republicans. Another poll came out showing people overwhelmingly do not want to shut down the goverment over Obamacare. Why don’t Republicans just vote for the CR? Why are they cherry-picking items when they could just fund the entire government. That’s playing games. We’re not children. That’s not how a world-class government functions. The budget is the sequester budget anyway, in which cuts were made previously. Concessions were previously made. The federal budget deficit is falling at the fastest rate in 60 years, if I’m not mistaken. The Obamacare fight needs to be put on the backburner for now. The Republicans need to trust voters. If we don’t like Obamacare after it’s been out for a while, we will vote to get rid of it, or to replace it with something else. Here is the new poll: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57605822/poll-americans-not-happy-about-shutdown-more-blame-gop/ - walkinfool - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 9:53 am: Ron: You just demonstrated the opposite point. You just described a typical game move of yesterday, by the House GOP — which was not responded to by the Dems. Surely you can come up with a better example. Or can’t you? The House Republicans refused to pass a clean CR that would have kept the government running. Period. Now they try to score PR points by asking for funding for only those things that are most embarrassing for them, and blame the Dems when they don’t go along. Nice play, if you can get away with it. Surprised that anyone is taken in by their positioning today of “both sides do it.” - MrJM - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 9:57 am: The Republicans are no longer pretending that this shutdown is about the imaginary horrors if Obama care. Today’s new GOP shutdown rationale: “I’ve got this thing & it’s f_ing golden & I’m not just giving it up for f_ing nothing” http://t.co/ynss9XRdaz – MrJM - hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:00 am: @RonOglesby - The Dems have already agreed to the GOPs numbers for the 6 week CR that fund govt at practically Ryan budget levels. Why should Dems participate in House GOP piecemeal Red Rover style budgeting beyond that on a freaking six week CR? John Boehner, John Boehner please send NIH funding right over. That sort of budget negotiation seems like a good idea to you? That everyday the GOP sees what story of a shutdown got the most negative reaction and passes a bill to patch up that one hole in the dam when it would be so much easier to just fix the whole thing? Besides the GOP can’t even make up its mind on what the play is here. Some just want to send out blame game press releases hoping public opinion turns on Obama. Some want to pretend this was really about trying to get a grand bargain to means test medicare and raise the retirement age for social security. And for the Ted Cruz commandos like Erick Erickson of Red State this really still is about Obamacare and they won’t let their GOP reps off the hook without them keeping the govt shutdown until they get Obamacare defunded/delayed, i.e. they seek govt shutdown forever. - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:02 am: There are differences between now and 1995-96. Then, the GOP controlled both chambers. They kept passing continuing resolutions, and Clinton vetoed them. The popularity of both Clinton and Congress declined, but Congress took the lion’s share of the blame. And it hurt Dole tremendously in the presidential race and cost the GOP seats in Congress. This time out, I suspect Boehner is letting the Tea Party kids have their fun for a while, then will roll them with both a clean continuing resolution and a debt limit increase. Maybe they’ll get something like a bipartisan commission on entitlement reform as a face-saver. –“We’re not going to be disrespected,” conservative Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., [told the Washington Examiner]. “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.”– Don’t kid yourself that this isn’t hurting the economy. It hurt the economy plenty last time out. A default on debt would be a disaster. - walkinfool - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:02 am: Ron: Apologies for the direct criticism. Upon reflection, I might be seeing this from an equally skewed perspective. - Angry Republican - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:12 am: Let me be perfectly clear, President Obama has not learned from the past. When the Democrats shut down the government in the 1980s, President Reagan met with congressional leaders to work out a solution. Unfortunately President Obama seems to be mimicking Governor Quinn. - veritas - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:14 am: The GOP is in trouble and they know it. The tea party wing, (many of whom come from gerrymandered districts and face little threat of not being re-elected) have no incentive to move on this issue. The GOP leadership doesn’t know whether to move right or left, and in the meantime will denounce dems in public and “their own” in private. - RonOglesby - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:14 am: @Walkinfool no problem. I think those that are Dems see Dems as right an those that are repubs see them as right. I mean there is a ton of goofy arguments (on both sides). My favorite is “The president was elected!!! and these repubs are just holding him up!” They are right that the pres was just elected. But they fail to note everyone in the house was just elected in the exact same election… so is there election any less valid? On repub side I dont like the piece meal thing. Of course I hate the CR thing. For years there was no budget out of the senate. As per our system all bills (spending) come from /start in the house. I understand that the Senate has decided to just not play ball with any house budgets, but then again why are they not called it. I think its fine to rail against piece meal stuff. Fine. Senate budget? a realistic one? President’s budget? I didnt even get a vote in the senate. its like listening to two guys in jail argue over who did the offending crime. - AFSCME Steward - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:17 am: Angry Republican I believe Obama did meet with all of the leaders yesterday. “Let me be perfectly clear, President Obama has not learned from the past. When the Democrats shut down the government in the 1980s, President Reagan met with congressional leaders to work out a solution. Unfortunately President Obama seems to be mimicking Governor Quinn.” - RonOglesby - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:17 am: @HisgirlFriday Just asking, were fine with it the other way around? just be honest? I dont like the piece meal stuff, but then again I realize that spending is constitutionally supposed to start in the house… CRs are a cover up for doing an actual budget and making decisions. Its just more “just keep doing whar we’re doing” Were you as ardent (maybe you aren’t old enough to remember) when shutdowns have happened in the past? When Dems were in control of the house? - Southwest Cook - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:28 am: Obama met with the 4 leaders, but said he is not going to negotiate. Reagan and Tip worked out solutions and their shutdowns were brief. Then again, there was a lot more crossover support for Reagan than there is for Obama. Both sides are playing toward their bases now. - D P Gumby - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:32 am: Two facts: 1) a clean CR would pass the House if it was brought to the floor, and 2) the obstacle to bringing a clean CR to the floor are not just the teabagistan Republican districts where there is no electoral threat, but the teabagistan fellow travelers who fear primary challengers from the right for not being teabaggie enough. - ZC - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:38 am: Wait a second. There are currently hundreds - perhaps thousands - of cancer survivors signing up to get health insurance coverage, many of them for the first time in their lives, all across the country, because of this new law. If Andrea Bozek is so concerned about cancer patients, will she explain why her Republican bosses want to immediately strip away this health insurance from all of these people? This rings hollow to the core. - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:39 am: –Reagan and Tip worked out solutions and their shutdowns were brief.– Tip never let the extremists in his caucus shut down the government over one law. Tip never refused Reagan a vote on legislation that would pass with an overwhelming majority of Republicans and a minority of Democrats. - RonOglesby - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:43 am: @Word, can you say the same thing about Reid? Reid is no Tip either. Plenty of politics on both sides. - hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:46 am: @RonOglesby - The Senate passed a budget way back in April that would fund govt for a whole year. The GOP refused to send conferees to negotiate and reconcile the different spending priorities between the two chambers despite Dems requests because they wanted to wait until October to use the debt ceiling as leverage. As for what obstinate Dems did to obstruct the budget or debt ceiling in the ’80s, I’m sure there was some unreasonableness there on the part of the Dems in Congress, who also obstructed their own Democratic president similarly. I am not sure what those episodes have to do with today other than a hint we may be undergoing a similar transformational era in politics that gerrymandering and incumbency and sophisticated campaign fundraising has prevented Congress from fully catching up with and which a dysfunctional and divided major party has failed to grapple with resulting in political dysfunction in DC. - RonOglesby - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:46 am: AHHH ZC, You miss the point. Both sides are playing politics. if you cant see you are too blinded to. Reid et al play it well, but this question echos what is asked of republicans “why do you want children to starve? or what if it helps just one child?” Sorry. its a fair question for BOTH sides. it shows their hypocrisy. - Anon2 - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 10:53 am: Sen. Reid - “we are not going to forced to pick and choose”. Isn’t that exactly the first job of a legislature - to pick and choose between competing interests and priorities? - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 11:05 am: Ron, I don’t recall Reid enabling the extremists in his caucus to shut down the government. Did I miss one? Look, they did what they said they were going to do, what Cruz spent 21 hours yammering on and on that they were going to do. Here it is. You don’t get to pull a stunt like this then come back and say we’ll just fund the stuff that made headlines this morning. That’s mindless. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 11:14 am: How is Reid playing politics? He passed a clean CR, end of story. This shutdown is about three things: Obamacare, Obamacare and Obamacare. That’s off the table, except for possibly the medical supply tax. The ACA went through more rigors in our democracy than any law I can remember. It survived. If the ACA was a person, it would file an order of protection against the Republican Party. From what I read or heard, there are enough Republican votes in the House to pass the clean CR, with Democrats, but Boehner is following the Hastert Rule and won’t let the CR proceed. - otoh - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 11:35 am: Nothing new here on either side of the argument. *yawn* Anyone have any sign-up information to share? Comparison’s for what they have and what they’ll get? - votecounter - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 11:38 am: Grandson. Why did they have to pass a CR? Because The Senate has not passed a budget in almost 4 years! This Governing by CR is the reason we are always in the “Crisis” mode. Pass a budget and go to conference and have a budget and NONE of this happens. BTW I was right but it’s happening earlier than I thought; the Navy, AirForce game is now on. Why can Obama pick and choose who is affected by a law passed by Congress? The law being enforced is not the same law passed it is parts of it. If the President can do this illegally (without legislation) why can’t the House with the power of the purse fund what it wants? - olddog - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 11:55 am: === Both sides are playing politics. === So …? That’s what they do for a living. But good politics is good government, and good government is good politics. As the federal budget crisis continues to morph into a full-blown constitutional crisis, we’ll find out soon enough who wants to fund government and who wants to drown it in a bathtub. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 12:01 pm: Votecounter, this isn’t just about delinquency in making budgets, which I agree is a terrible way to run the government and should be corrected. If it was, the Republicans would have been spinning it that way and would have not allowed the shutdown. It’s about Obamacare. - Anon2 - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 12:11 pm: This is about stopping another unaffordable entitlement program (ACA)coming on line before the the promissed reforms Obama paid lipservice to in Medicare, Medicade and SS. Fool me once, not twice. Shutt’er down!! - hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 12:15 pm: @VoteCounter - The Senate passed a budget in April. A full yearlong budget. They requested the House conference on their different yearlong budgets but the GOP said no because they wanted to use the debt ceiling as leverage and didn’t want to actually compromise because the House GOP is so divided. Just like the House GOP is too divided to pass an immigration or farm bill despite both of those getting through the Senate on a wide bipartisan basis. - votecounter - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 12:19 pm: Grandson- they are spinning it that way! The MSM is spinning it the other way Mark Halprin predicted last week Obama was “happy for the shutdown the media has his back”. If the Senate did it’s job (which is the law like Illinois has to have a balanced budget) - votecounter - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 12:27 pm: We would not be in this position. (sorry) - Will Caskey - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 1:25 pm: Rich, just FYI, Rodney Davis voted against a full/clean CR yesterday. Democrats brought it up in a motion to recommit on the latest mini-CR. It was ruled out of order, which can be overruled by a simple majority. Davis along with every Republican voted to table the motion: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll512.xml So if he is saying he’s prepared to vote for a clean CR he’s lying. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 1:35 pm: House Republicans were celebrating when they voted to defund Obamacare, which had zero chance of passing in the Senate and with Obama. Even a child knows better than to do that, with so much at risk. Ted Cruz didn’t campaign for president for 21 straight hours about responsible governance and passing actual budgets. It’s about Obamacare. “Shtt’er down!!” What this commenter wrote pretty much sums up the position of Republicans. They’re the ones who are saying the shutdown is good policy. They can’t back away from it. This is a Republican shutdown. Remember also here the other day, when we were asked to give a one-word description of the shutdown, there were commenters who said it’s a good thing. Hmmm, I wonder what political party they support? - So. ILL - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 1:47 pm: == Congressional Republicans got royally hammered when they shut down the government during Bill Clinton’s presidency.== Well, in 1994, Republicans won 230 seats in Congress. There were then 5 party switches and a special election victory later, the GOP entered the 1996 elections with 236 seats. A Republican Congress was elected back-to-back for the first time since the 1920s. I don’t think it was necessarily a royal hammering if you take those pieces into consideration. - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:03 pm: Okay view from the middle. (i say a pox on both their houses) Ron has nailed it. –I think those that are Dems see Dems as right an those that are repubs see them as right.– Are republicans attempting to affect the narrative absolutely. However if you don’t think that the administration is trying to make this hurt the citizen your insane. See list below. a. See the WWII veterans memorial. Open air memorials have never been shutdown in previous shutdowns. It cost more to baricade an open plaza than to leave it be. Yet despite the White House knowing that an honor flight of WWII vets coming in spent the money to barricade it which had never been done before during a shutdown. http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/02/monuments-and-memorials-remained-open-during-previous-shutdown/ b. The White House attempted to shutdown the road into Mt. Vernon which is completely owned and operated privately. For the love of God they shutdown the Grand Canyon a giant hole in the ground. If you think Obama is right you find this to be petulant Republicans who refuse to accept the changes Obama has rammed through. If you think Republicans are right then you think Obama is being petulant. The White house and dems are doing their best to play politics why else keep a 90 yr old man from seeing the monument his buddies blood payed for. Yes republicans are playing politics by trying to give dems what they usually want to make them vote against it. As someone who voted for Obama in ‘08. AS much as this shutdown is ridiculous the fact of the matter is this is exactly how our Republic is designed to work. The Constitution clearly gives the power of the purse to the House. Spending bills cannot originate in the Senate. U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 7, Clause 1. As much as Democrats don’t like it they need to negotiate here the house is wholly in line with their constitutional duties. As for Obamacare being the law of the land so was Slavery, Segregation, DOMA and the BUSH TAX CUTS. Democrats fought the last two tooth and nail Republicans fought the first two tooth and nail. There is no “hey we passed this law you can’t do anything about it.” When the Dems passed the ACA on a wholly partisan vote against the public will at the time what did they expect? Did they really expect the other side to lay down and take it. As i see the biggest risk for Obama and the Dems is this continues and people realize that it really doesn’t affect them. - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:19 pm: –DOMA and the BUSH TAX CUTS.– DOMA was passed with overwhelming bipartisan support. The Bush tax cuts received considerable Democratic support in 2001. At the time, the country was in surplus. - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:34 pm: @Word And that changes what? If anything it strengthens the case that just because a law was passed doesn’t make it carved in stone. My point was Dems fought those “laws of the land” tooth and nail just as the republicans fought tooth and nail against slavery and for the Civil Rights Act. My point is that there is no such thing as a “law of the land” that cannot be tweeked, changed, or repealed. Even the U.S. Constitution can be changed note prohibition. The argument that the ACA is the “law of the land” and untouchable is fallacious on it’s face. Add to that the president without congress delayed the employer mandate for a year. Why is delaying the individual mandate any different? To be honest why are we allowing Corporations to not supply insurance while mandating their employees buy insurance on their dime? - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:37 pm: So after Obamacare, what’s the next law currently on the books that the likes of Bachman, Goehmert, Culberson, et. al., will be able to shut down the government in order to facilitate “negotiations?” I’m guessing there are others that they don’t like. If it’s an acceptable tactic, it makes you wonder why Speaker Pelosi didn’t let Bobby Rush, Jan S., John Conyers, et. al., do the same back when Bush was president to facilitate “negotiations” on existing laws. You actually can change laws in a more orderly manner. There’s a how-to in the Constitution. - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:42 pm: Mason, the was laws are enacted or changed is spelled out clearly in the Constitutional. Government shutdowns are irresponsible and reckless. Reward them now with “negotiations” and they’ll never end. - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:49 pm: @Word Well than what do you think the power of the purse does than? Vietnam was ended when the House refused to fund the military in S. Vietnam. The House has the authority to refuse funding for any item it chooses. I did not say that Obama has to negotiate on ACA i said he needs to negotiate if he can reach a compromise on something else to end it good for him. However there is no part of the Constitution that requires the House to fund whatever a President wants. I do think that saying i can by fiat delay the employer mandate but that the individual mandate is somehow untouchable is ludicrous. IMHO once he delayed the Employer he should have delayed the Individual. - Mason born - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 2:56 pm: –If it’s an acceptable tactic, it makes you wonder why Speaker Pelosi didn’t let Bobby Rush, Jan S., John Conyers, et. al., do the same back when Bush was president to facilitate “negotiations” on existing laws. — Apparently she did not think she had the public on her side. There have been 17 since 1976. 16 of those in a 20yr period (76-96) it may be distasteful but it isn’t exactly unusual. - wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 3:15 pm: –Vietnam was ended when the House refused to fund the military in S. Vietnam.– Slow down there. The Paris Peace Accords were signed by Kissinger in January 1973, pledging a U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam. Later that year, in June, both chambers of Congress passed by veto-proof majorities a cutoff of funding for military operations in Southeast Asia after August 15. Nixon signed the legislation. No shutdown. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Oct 3, 13 @ 4:22 pm: “When the Dems passed the ACA on a wholly partisan vote against the public will at that time…” Sure, Democrats are the only people ever to vote solely on a partisan vote. Plus, why didn’t Republicans follow the will of the people earlier and vote for the very popular minimum wage increase and gun reform? Why won’t they pass immigration reform in the House? The public supports it. “Did they really expect the other side to lay down and take it” Of course not. The other side tried dozens of times to repeal it, but they failed. “As someone who voted for Obama in ‘08.” What did you expect him to do, not pass healthcare? He ran on it. He passed a conservative version of health reform. Some people on the left were angry that a government-run single-payer system wasn’t passed, and they said Obama sold out to the insurance companies. Here is another poll that shows we don’t want to repeal Obamacare. 56% of respondents either want to keep the law and see what happens or improve the law. Twelve percent want to expand the law, and only 33% want to repeal/defund/delay the law. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/30/new-poll-only-one-third-of-americans-support-repealing-defunding-or-delaying-obamacare/ Looking at the polls, Republicans are the ones not listening to the “public will.” - Not a country bumpkin - Friday, Oct 4, 13 @ 6:51 am: A guy who was told something (or was he?) tells a reporter…. Really? This is such slap-stick comedy for the Huff Post. Congressman Davis’ aide did not support that claim. Lying? This was sloppy work and you shouldn’t even report it. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.