70 Comments - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:08 am: ===For her part, she said, one area she could see for compromise is lowering workers’ compensation rates to be more competitive.=== Remember where RTW is being battled? Lincolnshire. Who’s hometown? Comptroller Munger. ===“I cannot understand why union members would not love that,” she said, because it would free up money so more skilled workers could get jobs.=== If you are a Trade Union member, keep this in mind; Lincolnshire, the hometown of the incumbent above thinks your wages should be lowered, by you, and has yet to say wether RTW in her hometown is bad… as she’s confused why you, especially Union Trade workers, Reagan Democrats, won’t just “want” lower wages. Also, keep in mind the response to you Labor when Mendoza questioned Lincolnshire, the hometown, is pushing RTW, was to deflect, 100% on the Labor issue. This is being tone deaf, sure, this is also being honest, and then not understanding why those effected don’t just “eat cake, lower your wage.” Wow. - Union Leader - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:11 am: Tone deaf? She is a Raunerite, of course she is tone deaf. Should worker’s compensation be scrutinized more, yes, but not to the total detriment of workers who do not game the system, the worker who is really injured and wants their bills paid. - AC - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:22 am: Since she didn’t describe the solution as reducing workers compensation premiums while preserving the rights of injured workers, presumably, she wants Illinois to decimate injured workers finances. After all, that’s what happened in several states profiled by NPR. I can’t understand why anyone who works for a living would want that. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:27 am: To the workman’s comp, Legislating “away” aspects of workers’ rights, like workman’s comp, Munger has seemed to frame her Labor position(s), fairly or not, with Rauner. Munger’s Crew may have Labor looking at rule changes… and seeing how Labor is being asked to see “less is better” including in WC as a benefit, that’s tough to isolate, given how Munger herself is getting framed. That’s why my first comment is relevant. Her statement on WC is going to be defined by the playing field Labor may place Munger by past words and/or actions, let alone these remarks being tone deaf to a specific audience. - Louis G. Atsaves - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:28 am: Which “rates” is Munger referring to? Insurance rates? Disability rates? The link to the article doesn’t seem to be working. - burbanite - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:31 am: “love it”? Clueless, absolutely clueless. - Honeybear - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:34 am: RNUG and OW, learner moment. Wasn’t there workers comp reform in the past decade but then the insurance companies didn’t lower their rates afterwards. Am I remembering that right? So really we’ve had reform but then the insurance companies didn’t hold up their end of the bargain. So now we once again go after the worker, the victim of a workplace accident? Not only is it tone deaf but it is offensive. But hey keep it up Raunerites. Attendance at monthly union meetings has never been better. Ironically I think that the Raunerites might single handedly bring about the Second Coming of Labor. - phocion - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:35 am: No one is legislating away workers compensation, Willy. Your arguments are much more powerful when they rest upon facts - just a tip. Illinois workers compensation remains in need of reform. Even your hero Mike Madigan acknowledges that. Abuses continue, and the high cost is borne by the Illinois economy through fewer businesses and fewer jobs. Legitimate work related injuries should be compensated in a reasonable manner, as should physicians (in a reasonable manner). The costs would be manageable that way and honest workers would be protected. And there would also be built in economic incentives for workplace safety. So, Willy and Union Leader, you’re ok with the status quo that keeps workers comp rates among the highest in the nation? Guess it doesn’t matter to either of you, since you don’t actually create jobs. - JB - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:36 am: She also probably has a problem understanding why workers and their families want and need Good health insurance benefits As state employees our premiums keep going up along with co-pays, deductibles, etc And yet this Governor wants to increase premiums and other health insurance costs by outrageous amounts I was not a union member while working for the State but I am glad AFSCME is fighting good state health insurance, workmen’s comp, etc In the end, all state workers-both union and non-union benefit from AFSCME not giving in on these issues to the Governor and Munger - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:40 am: “Which “rates” is Munger referring to? Insurance rates? Disability rates? The link to the article doesn’t seem to be working”. Louis- The link works fine, are you really saying that you’re not interested in the information that is there? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:43 am: ===Even your hero Mike Madigan acknowledges that.=== I’m a Republican, not a Raunerite. Please keep up. It’s not about me. ===So, Willy and Union Leader, you’re ok with the status quo…=== Where did we say that? I don’t think you read my comment.. at all. I first was commenting her own framing in Labor looks iffy at best, and then followed up that her discussing WC with that framing isn’t going to help if she comes off tone deaf. Read what I write, as I write it. K? K. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:45 am: -Phocian- Less than 32% of workers compensation premiums pay for medical costs, the rest is for “overhead”. If you want cuts, look at the overhead costs. - Anonymous - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:46 am: ==you’re ok with the status quo== Would you stop with that nonsense already. You’re one of those people who thinks if you don’t agree with the Governor’s specific plans that somebody is for the status quo. - Louis G. Atsaves - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:47 am: Thanks for the snark Chicago20. I just tried it a third time and each time I get this message: “We cannot locate the link to the page you requested.The page you asked for may no longer be available or may have moved. Completing the search function below may help you locate the story you are looking for. You can also fill out the form at right to inform us of the error.” - Demoralized - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:47 am: ==you’re ok with the status quo== Would you stop with that nonsense already. You’re one of those people who thinks if you don’t agree with the Governor’s specific plans that somebody is for the status quo. ==Guess it doesn’t matter to either of you, since you don’t actually create jobs.== Oh please. What an asinine argument. - Niblets - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:48 am: Hate to agree with Louis but link does not work for me either. - Union Leader - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:50 am: What OW said! Where did I say I was for the status quo? Reading is a skill. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:51 am: http://www.npr.org/series/394891172/insult-to-injury-americas-vanishing-worker-protections - Matt Belcher - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:53 am: ~Louis G. Atsaves, Try here: http://www.sj-r.com/article/20160206/OPINION/160209690/?Start=2 Page 2 of, Bernard Schoenburg: Poe backs Benton over McCann in 50th - phocion - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:53 am: ==Would you stop with that nonsense already. You’re one of those people who thinks if you don’t agree with the Governor’s specific plans that somebody is for the status quo.== Ok, then how would the Democrats reform workers compensation to achieve savings while maintaining worker protections? Pretty tiresome hearing people saying they’re not for the status quo, but utterly failing to say what should change. Kind of makes it look like, oh, I don’t know, that you do support the status quo. Oh, Willy. Thanks for the reminder that you’re a Republican. Keep telling yourself that. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:57 am: Here is another NPR story on workers compensation reform after effects. http://www.npr.org/2015/03/04/390441655/injured-workers-suffer-as-reforms-limit-workers-compensation-benefits - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 10:58 am: ===Oh, Willy. Thanks for the reminder that you’re a Republican. Keep telling yourself that.=== I’m with Jim Edgar, the Republican former governor. Rauner is not a Republican, but a governor trying to govern with Raunerite ideals. Keep up. I’m not a Democrat, don’t don’t know what the Democrats feel is better for WC, even though recently there was WC reform they have pointed to. The status quo now, a year since Rauner taking the oath is the purposeful hurting of people. That’s on Rauner. Rauner chose that. No one else. - Union Man - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:01 am: Do you think she meant “workmen’s Comp?” - RunBikeSwim - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:03 am: “Oh, Willy. Thanks for the reminder that you’re a Republican. Keep telling yourself that.” Name calling and insulting people in hopes of raising your own importance doesn’t help in the argument. We can agree to disagree, but jeez… Just remember, you can be against radical changes, and not be for the status quo… - Robert the 1st - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:08 am: =I’m with Jim Edgar, the Republican former governor.= Don’t you always like to bring up how he contributed to the pension mess? To remind us all how bipartisan the IL disaster is? That’s the guy you like that makes you a Republican huh? - Demoralized - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:10 am: ==Pretty tiresome hearing people saying they’re not for the status quo, == And it’s pretty tiresome hearing the argument that you are for the status quo if don’t fully support the Governor’s agenda as is. Your type views everything in absolutes. - Annonn'' - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:12 am: Wingman apparently does not understand why folks are not inclined to cut their own throats….guessin’ we are a ways away from the Grand Bargain - Norseman - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:13 am: Munger is staking her political life on the Rauner money. We’ll see in November if that will work for her. She’s proved to me that she’s a better follower than leader. - Arsenal - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:13 am: Once again, as a lefty, I can tell you that I never see Oswego Willy at our meetings. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:15 am: - Honeybear - I’d point to - Louis G Atsaves - and his exceptional work on WC and framing the issue showing where there IS significant room for maneuvering. Some of the best WC framing I’ve read on Illinois’ current situation that can be found. Munger needs to tread lightly, while trying to find separation from Rauner, but taking labor issues on while being framed by numerous things that may or may not be her fault. The amplifying of Munger’s own Labor challenges leave her remarks as someone “tone deaf”. What Munger needs to do is sit with - Louis G Atsaves - and take WC on in the clinical way he does and then use that pivot to try to get Lincolnshire off her back. Also the knee-jerk response to attack “Mendoza - Chicago” as a pivot seems to have been abandoned with Labor attacks and that will help. These throw away responses to an issue (Labor) she may face will come across tone deaf unless someone like - Louis G Atsaves - gets her to make the responses clinical, not whimsical. With respect. - Robert the 1st - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:16 am: =Once again, as a lefty, I can tell you that I never see Oswego Willy at our meetings.= He makes every Republican bashing meeting on this site. As a lefty, have you ever disagreed with anything he posts? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:23 am: - Robert the 1st - The Edgar Ramp, where a governor owns, has/d significant pitfalls. Read McKinney as to the Edgar ownership, along with what followed, and the lesson(s) learned. Politics isn’t a religion, nor is politics perfect. I’ve yet to find a perfect politician, or even a recent perfect governor, but as a Republican, and a governor, Illinois was served well by Edgar, working in a bipartisan manner, warts and all. If I follow the McKinney piece as arguably the best stand alone single piece on the pension crisis, how can I say Edgar was blameless or make an excuse for the aftermath of the Edgar Ramp. I can’t. With respect. - Demoralized - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:24 am: ==He makes every Republican bashing meeting on this site.== Better than walking in lock step with a political party. But then again the party loyalty police will have none of that. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:26 am: - Robert the 1st - Rauner is not a Republican. If you’d like to discuss the politics or policy at play in a post, let’s do it. I’m a Republican, it’s not up for discussion or debate. You’ll make more “points” not worrying about me. Honest. - RunBikeSwim - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:28 am: To OW’s defense - He usually the most measured and willing to “bash” both sides of the aisle when they deserve. Both sides of the aisle have contributed to this mess, but destroying the state to prove a point of power needs to be pointed out and OW does that with fact. Does it matter if he is republican or democrat? Being an “Illinoisan” should be a better term. Once again - Using terms like “lefty” and “liberals”, does nothing to add to a conversation that the commenters on this site do passionately but respectfully 99% of the time. - RunBikeSwim - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:29 am: I agree - Rauner is not a Republican - Republicans have shown over the years that they have a heart. - Union Leader - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:35 am: OW is a Republican. I have a very good friend who worked to get Jim Edgar elected both as SOS and G and he was a good Republican ( a moderate). Today, he lives in another state and does not identify with the GOP in our state or the country. I am a die hard Democrat, but I can still disagree with my party leaders and agree with OW when it is warranted. - There is power in a union... - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:35 am: Rauner bought the IL GOP and demands that it has exactly 1 platform plank. And that is, “What is good for the multi-billionaire is automatically good for me.” It will be up to that partie’s rank and file to push back against that. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:35 am: (Tips cap to - Demoralized - and - RunBikeSwim) To the Post and get back on track, Workman’s Comp, a place where daylight can be found, it could be the place where, begrudgingly, Unions could give Munger credit in leading by having that blueprint with - Louis G Atsaves - aiding in plausible and workable agreement points. Stil a toxic issue, Labor, but a move in WC, if it needs to be done, required in the campaign, could beca nice place of separation, if it has meat on the bone to be taken as serious. - Chilly Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:38 am: You are both correct. Rauner is not a true Republican. Nor is Madigan, obviously. OW has never criticized Michael “it’s my money” Madigan. In fact, praise has been bestowed upon him and his posse by said individual. Edgar? Has not faced the voters approaching 22 years now. This is not saying I wouldn’t vote for him today. - Union Leader - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:39 am: There are no more Reagan Democrats-they are now called Republicans. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:39 am: Thank you - Union Leader -, appreciate your take. I do wish more Republicans would look at Labor as we did not too long ago. Parties evolve, sure, they’re not religious orders, and I hope more Republicans, come March and November find their way back to help Rauner learn to count, and help in learning to govern. - Anonymous - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:41 am: If Comptroller Munger continues to support Governor Rauner and/or falls in lockstep with his policies, she will not be able hold together the bi-partisan support, JBT had when she was Comptroller. Boy, do I ever miss her! - Union Leader - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:42 am: Anonymous @ 11:41am was me. - Union Leader - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:45 am: OW– I remember when there were many Republicans who supported Labor and Unions. Today, not true. The bashing labor and unions have taken for the last 36 years is appalling. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:49 am: - Chilly Willy - Ugh. Rauner versus the state of Illinois? I’m choosing Edgar, not Madigan as the leader out of the woods guiding Republicans to help the Majority (Democrats) govern. Edgar. Madigan v. Quinn in governing? The GOP, we sat on our hands, so you want me to think Quinn governing is good, while the GOP say on our hands? Nope. Blago? Everyone in the end was against Blago, Madigan even ignoring Blago as Rod talked with Cross, who IS a Republican. Either understand the game and board it’s being played on or understand you are not rational I your thoughts of the last 13 years…. … before GHR, before Edgar. Geez. - AC - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:56 am: Working in partnership with labor, and other important groups across the state, would’ve done infinitely more to improve the fiscal mess and the business climate than 1000 years like the last one would’ve done. Sadly, no one wants compromise, just ask Cullerton, it’s failed nearly every time he’s tried. - DuPage - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 11:57 am: The state needs to force the insurance companies to open their books, as most other states do. That needs to be done before changing anything. - Chilly Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 12:02 pm: OW: You hit me with a traditionally poorly-written, difficult to decipher on the merits, angry non sequitur. Fine. Run for office; in this day and age you will likely win. - Anonymous - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 12:03 pm: While I generally support all of the reforms outlined by the Gov., this one has to tread very lightly. Remember, any of us could be hurt on the job no matter what our occupation. To have a system like TX or OK is totally unacceptable. Eliminate the fraud, tighten up and enforce safety standards and watch rates drop. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 12:14 pm: - Chilly Willy - Reading is fundamental, lol. - Louis G Atsaves - has been popping in and out here, I hope he weighs in, no snark. - Applecity - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 12:26 pm: Was this a quote from the Onion???? - Jack Stephens - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 12:34 pm: I just wanted to say I’ve collect welfare my whole life because its illegal for me to work. But with Right to Work I can finally get off the dole and get a job. I didnt want to do anything illegal and find a job because I have never had a Right to Work. Thanx Bruce! Best. Governor. Ever. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 12:50 pm: An excerpt from the NPR story. http://www.npr.org/2015/03/04/390441655/injured-workers-suffer-as-reforms-limit-workers-compensation-benefits “The changes, often passed under the banner of “reform,” have been pushed by big businesses and insurance companies on the false premise that costs are out of control. In fact, employers are paying the lowest rates for workers’ comp insurance since the 1970s. And in 2013, insurers had their most profitable year in over a decade, bringing in a hefty 18 percent return.” - Louis G. Atsaves - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 1:07 pm: Thanks for new link Matt Belcher. That link worked. You are my hero for the day! Now to clarify a few matters since there are certain words and phrases that are constantly misused in discussing Workers’ Compensation in Illinois. 1. It is the Workers’ Compensation Act, not Workmen’s Compensation Act. It is now governed by the Illinois Workers’ Compensation Commission, which was formerly known as the Illinois Industrial Commission until just a few years ago. 2. Use of the word “rates” would include insurance premium rates, and “rates” of compensation for injuries, normally meaning calculation of the average weekly wage which sets the weekly “rate” for lost time benefits and permanent benefits, subject to certain statutory maximum and minimum rates for both. Some use “rates” to discuss the number of weeks of compensation for permanent injuries to different body parts, which just confuses matters at times among those not that well versed in Workers’ Compensation law. Adding to the confusion is the use of “rates” in determining payments to medical providers in accordance with the Medical Fee Schedule that was created by the Act. 3. After reading the article and the quotes from Leslie Munger, I still am not sure what “rates” she is referencing. 4. Other points of confusion to avoid in WC discussions include: a. Using “causal connection” to complain about “accidents.” They are two different things, one can sustain an accident at work but the disability complained of may not be causally related or connected to that injury. b. Using “accident” in the place of “causal connection” equally confuses things. An accident is defined as “arising out of and in the course of the employment.” Causation is built into the “arising out of” portion of that statutory phrase. c. Workers’ Compensation is a statutory remedy for certain types of workplace injuries. Over the years, special provisions have been enacted that restrict or ban awards for compensation (recreational activities like a company picnic for example), or hearing loss (tightened causation standards from the early 1980’s) or even recent changes to repetitive trauma injuries. Some argue against awards for certain accidents by using a “causation” theory, and vice-versa. It gets very confusing, even for those of us who practice regularly in this field of law. If what I am writing confuses many here, don’t despair. Most comments about WC just here, where there seems to be a more educated readership on state government, are cringe-worthy to those of us who practice in the field on a regular basis. My experience is most attorneys and and the overwhelming majority in the legislature including statewide elected officials, county chairmen, and mayors, have only a passing understanding or no understanding of WC provisions. With those involved in government, they often see WC “rates” as premiums or self-insured funds they pay out without understanding why those payouts occur. That does not make me, or others superior to everyone else. It just means we have been immersed in that field of law for many years. Put a complicated tax code provision in front of me and have someone who is immersed in that law start explaining the technical aspects of it all and I will roll my eyes and start dreaming about the Cubs winning the World Series. I still feel there is path to reforming Workers’ Compensation in Illinois. I’ve outline a path in the past which Rich highlighted. - Bigtwich - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 1:11 pm: “Qu’ils mangent de la brioche.” - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 1:25 pm: -Louis Belcher’s link is NOT the “scroll though this NPR page” link. This is the link. http://www.npr.org/series/394891172/insult-to-injury-americas-vanishing-worker-protections - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 1:45 pm: Well done, - Louis G Atsaves -, and thanks. Much respect, OW - Hedley Lamarr - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 1:53 pm: Another good reason to vote against Munger in November. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 4:38 pm: - Hedley Lamarr -, I’m not ready to vote against Munger yet. What I want to see, what I want clear is Munger showing me that the job of Comptroller isn’t too big for her to remove herself from, clearly, she has clear distinctions that are different than Bruce Rauner, married with competence of the constitutional task being first, and a Turnaround Agenda a distant second. What I’d also like to see is a clear Labor position, not nibbling off WC that can be easily dismissed within the “structural reform” baloney Rauner is passing off with hidden Labor poison pills. With my first comment, her quotes and spoken thoughts can be used against her, easily, because of the box she finds herself in. The Munger Crew should look, closely, how Gov. Kasich learned from Labor, and understanding Rauner can’t get the votes for his poison pills IS the “out” she can use to pivot, stay loyal, be independent, and be seen as handling the office and constitutional duties the office requires. I only need 80%, and thoughtfulness to “doing and seeing the doable” can get me there… if they can get her out of the poison pull shadow of Labor. If I didn’t think hey could do it, or wanted to try to get out from this thin line they’re walking, I wouldn’t waste my time. If they’re going to do it, they’re running out of daylight… - Anonymous - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 5:51 pm: Kentucky lost the local RTW zones battle in the courts, is Lincolnshire still an issue now that there’s precedent OW? - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 5:57 pm: ” - Anonymous - ” You’d have to ask those pushing the case and wanting the fight there. As long as Lincolnshire continues to think that it’s worth pursuing, I guess it’ll be an issue. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 6:25 pm: Oswego- Lincolnshire isn’t pushing the issue, this is an Illinois Policy Institute show. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 6:40 pm: - Chicago 20 -, IPI isn’t a “muni” that could pass the ordinance, and while IPI may be more “committed”, deciding to be a test case makes Lincolnshire pretty committed to RTW… - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 7:01 pm: But the IPI is financing the whole deal. Lincolnshire’s attorney wasn’t even consulted. http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20151128/business/151128952/ - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 7:05 pm: The elected body passed it… So, there’s that. You think the town leadership is a “victim” in this? That’s a hot one. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 7:24 pm: A victim just like Dunkin. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 7:29 pm: Dunkin ain’t no victim. Partner, but no victim. - Chicago 20 - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 7:54 pm: Partner or pawn? Just a matter of perspective and time…. - Oswego Willy - Monday, Feb 8, 16 @ 7:59 pm: Lincolnshire and the board voting as such are partners. Ignoring the Counsel says that’s so. Dunkin is a partner, in a pact. Dunkin controlling his switch makes him complicit. Mutually beneficial partnership. The GOP GA, they are pawns, the K-12 funding “red” vote and Rauner’s signature proved that. It’s easy to follow. Being willfully ignorant to things around you isn’t a smart way to seem plunged in. Blissfully unaware is just tragic. Lincolnshire is a partner, Dunkin is a partner, GOP GA, they are pawns. Not too difficult. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.