42 Comments - Anon221 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 11:56 am: Stats can be cherry-picked, I will grant that. However much Rauner may be the one shining sunlight on this, he has steered the State into the Horse Latitudes in order to push his reforms which, to date because of that narrow viewpoint, has not helped in “turning” anything around yet. - Chicagonk - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:00 pm: PolitiFact is such a joke these days. - Norseman - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:03 pm: Who checks the fact checkers? Rich provided much appreciated perspective. When dealing with political speeches the most important thing is to listen with skepticism. In addition to original research, use common sense to analyze the motivations and doability of the politicians’ promises. - Anonymouth - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:03 pm: So Rauner complains about declining family incomes but he insists on policies which would lower the standard of living for working and middle class families. Sounds like he is, at least to some degree, talking out of both sides of his mouth. - Annonin' - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:05 pm: BigBrain will be so proud of you — Capt Fax — for slappin’ down those nasty ReBooters. As we all know BigBrain is desperate to remake IL into West Indiana. Guessin’ he is really p*’d casue Gov Pence could be the VEEP for his guy Trump. esw - titan - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:05 pm: PolitiFact seems to do a fair amount of spinning before they award their ultimate rating conclusion. - Rabid - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:05 pm: Yes 10,000 baby boomers a day retiring from 2008 making half or less their wages will bring down the numbers - Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:06 pm: Amid the talk of job growth and a suppossed recovery, the simple fact is that the economy is awful, and it has been awful for a very long time. So, while fixing the economy would seem a logical topic for elected officials, as well as those seeking to be elected, we hear darn little about the severity of the problem. Hence, recent college graduates are waiting tables and flipping burgers while waiting for the baby boomers to die off. - Just the Facts Ma'am - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:10 pm: So besides Snopes, which does nothing local, which sites are good for fact checking? - And I Approved This Message - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:18 pm: There is a lesser known definition of “prosecute” that is non-legal. It means to carry on or participate in. A bit arcane but not necessarily wrong. - anon - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:22 pm: “We have the highest unemployment rate of any state.” This assertion is true. The IL rate is 6.4% as of May 2016. It was 6% the month Quinn left office. Does the current governor bear any responsibility for the highest rate in the nation? Especially since the rate has risen under his administration? - Harry - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:22 pm: That’s the problem with all the so-called “fact checkers.” The issue is rarely the facts, per se, but context, and the “fact-checkers” are as bad as the politicians about cherry-picking context to make their own political points. You might learn a little from reading their entire analysis, but they jigger it to support the conclusion they want, so if you only ready the final rating you just get spun. On the whole, I rate PolitiFact: Worthless if not positively misleading.. - Juvenal - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:25 pm: === So, I’d give him a bit of latitude until somebody else steps up with some new ideas to address our clearly lagging economy. === I think Democrats have been pretty clear that the best way to promote economic development is to invest in our schools, higher education, job training, and infrastructure. It’s a list of goals that almost exactly mirrors what the private sector says it wants states to do, whether you are talking about traditional transportation infrastructure, our energy distribution grid, or strengthening our communications infrastructure. And it is a set of priorities that Democrats have been fighting with the governor over very loudly for the past 18 months. Maybe they need to do a better job of connecting the pylons for the press. Or maybe they are being overlooked because they aren’t “new”, but the things that Democrats have been fighting for and Republicans have been fighting against for 20 years. But the proposals are sitting right there. Other states are better positioned to seize opportunities in the 21st century economy because we are almost dead last when it comes to ensuring world class schools. And you can trace that back to decisions we made as a state 20 years ago. We have a lot of catching up to do. But hey, no worries, the gov’s formed a commission. - Daniel Plainview - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:27 pm: - But, so far, Rauner is the only one at the top of the state’s political food chain talking about this problem. It burns me to no end that nobody else is addressing this topic. So, I’d give him a bit of latitude until somebody else steps up with some new ideas to address our clearly lagging economy. - With all due respect, while the governor does indeed talk about “economic reforms”, his actions by not honoring contracts or negotiating a balanced budget certainly don’t help our economy. He may be the only one spouting off the Maisch/Denzler/Baise talking points, but I don’t think that gives him a monopoly on economic credibility. - A Jack - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:27 pm: I agree that more could be done to make Illinois business friendly. CNBC ranked Illinois 24th in their annual study. While Utah was number one. What made Utah so much better? Utah was able to attract a lot of high technology jobs. What is the governor doing? Trying to attract manufacturing jobs which don’t pay that well to begin with, by lowering wages even more. What might attract more high technology jobs? How about a world class higher education system. What is the Governor doing to Illinois’ Higher Education system? He is definitely damaging it. Yes we need to improve Illinois’ economy, but the Governor’s outdated ideas are more of a hindrance than a help. - John Gregory (ex-IRN) - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:32 pm: I think readers here criticize PolitiFact for the same reason most media organizations get criticized—for not always backing up your previously-held beliefs. Which isn’t our job in the first place. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:40 pm: === not always backing up your previously-held beliefs=== Um, no. The fact check was supposedly about a single sentence. The sentence was fully true. - Phil Blackmon - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:40 pm: 99% of all people earned income is down around the world. Unless you have assets of 3 to 5 million that return 3 percent things are hard. Ideally you have assets of 100 million or more that yield 2% or higher so you can take care of your family and friends and still have a few bucks to give to the political class to make laws to make the world a better place. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:42 pm: ===Democrats have been pretty clear that the best way to promote economic development is to invest in our schools, higher education, job training, and infrastructure… we are almost dead last when it comes to ensuring world class schools=== Do you not see your own complete contradiction there? - illinois bob - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:49 pm: Having spoken to a number of people who make decisions about where to expand and locate new businesses, I found that the small specific “reforms” aren’t as important as doing things that will change the perceptions of the business climate in the state. The perception is that there’s a world of hurt coming to Illinois because of past political decisions, and the uncertainty is a killer. Taxes aren’t so big an issue as is the incompetence and corruption in government statewide to address the pension and featherbedding issues. Government leaning heavily towards labor over business isn’t a problem in itself, unless government fails to put in safeguards, which make both governments and businesses economically sustainable. The chaos in Springfield has only made the situation much worse. Businesses want sustainability and government which understands the problems and takes effective, cooperative action to address the root causes of the problems fro the good of the state rather than some selfish crony interests. I just don’t see a way that happens given the culture of the voters in Illinois. - Scamp640 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 12:54 pm: So, I don’t understand. If things were so bad, why did the governor hold the state hostage for a year? Having no budget has made things much worse. He’s talking about the problem but I don’t think he is sincere about it. How do I know? Well, consider a medical analogy. Imagine a sickly, malnourished patient visiting a doctor. Would it make sense for the doctor to withhold food and water from the struggling patient? That is what Rauner did to Illinois. By holding up the budget, he withheld sustenance. If Illinois is doing so badly, why make things worse? This is like 15th century medicine where doctors bled patients — in a sense weakening them, in order to help them. It did not work in the 15th century and it won’t work now. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:18 pm: It’s bizarro world to even talk about an “Illinois economy.” It doesn’t exist. Illinois is a major player in many facets of the global economy. But it is not a player in currencies or interest rates or trade agreements or patents….. The state should do what it can do well to lay the groundwork for attracting capital formation. That’s education, public safety, rule of law and social safety net. And paying people the money it owes them. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:19 pm: Rauner’s answer to lowering wages in Illinois is to demand that workers not be able to bargain through a union for higher wages. - IllinoisBoi - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:20 pm: “We have lower family incomes in Illinois today than we had 17 years ago in Illinois. We are fundamentally in decline because of the control of (House) Speaker (Michael) Madigan and his Democrats.” The first sentence is true, but it’s true of many other states (even MORE true of some states like Indiana. But the second sentence is mostly false, unless macro economic forces and the worldwide recession that started in 2008 are somehow Madigan’s fault. So yes, half-true. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:23 pm: ===But the second sentence is mostly false=== Maybe, maybe not. But that’s not the fact they were checking. - Rabid - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 1:36 pm: Income has not stayed up with inflation who’s pocket has all that difference gone into? - Chucktownian - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 2:01 pm: They’re going to need at least one full-time person and maybe two to keep up with the governor’s daily stream of misstatements, lies, and half-truths. - CapnCrunch - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 2:02 pm: “Income has not stayed up with inflation…….” Depends on the source of the income. In the decade ending in 2014, Illinois real median household income went from $60,929 down to $57,444, a decline of 5.7% while a state retiree’s pension income increased more than 34%. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 2:16 pm: i have yet to see any economic development proposals from the Democrats or an acknowledgement that some reforms to help business expand here in Illinois and hire more people When only one side sees a problem and the other side does not we will continue to have stagnant economic growth - Responsa - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 2:28 pm: Politics in the past mainly used to be about citizens agreeing on “the problem” but arguing about the different potential avenues, costs and approaches to solving it. Now we can’t even agree on what the problems are. - Rabid - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 2:33 pm: Income stagnant or money worthless? The rub $10,000 less to spend= poor economy - Ghost - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:18 pm: Rich FYI the decline increased starting i. 2003-2004 when the state over the next several years cut 20k jobs that were middle class. Rauners plan to reduce wages will just accelerate the problem. alos Indiana has had a greater decrese in median income over the last 4 years, Illinois has held steady. IA is below the national average and Il above… until Rauner reusces state worker salaries and spending. people forget that money to state workers does not disappear, it comes back to the state economy from spending. - Mama - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:20 pm: Rich, did they list how much the income dropped in WI? Thanks - TinyDancer(FKA Sue) - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:26 pm: =2014 median household income in Illinois was $54,916 and the 1999 median household income, adjusted for inflation, was $65,850. That’s a decline of 16.6 percent.= Has the business community in any other state launched a campaign to advertise to the world and the the rating agencie that the state is broke? I wonder…..what was the economic impact of the threat to welch on Illinois retiree pension payments? Consumer spending is 70% of GDP - the velocity of money, etc. Uncertainty may affect business, but it definitely affects shopping. Wish someone would break out the numbers from 2010 when the threats (and the Illinois is Broke campaign) began to 2015 when the Supreme Court put an end to it and see the effect this has had on the state’s economy. - Chicago 20 - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:28 pm: I for one strongly believe that any information, data or statistics must be vetted and/or explained in any media story. Today journalists don’t have the time to properly research the information that is doled out in these press conferences and they simply attribute the quote to the speaker instead of verifying if it is a true statement or a biased half truth designed to mislead the public. This “information” is then repeated so often until it becomes “true” mythical urban legend spread by the media. - Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 3:35 pm: Crunch, that was pretty weak. In that decade, the average State retiree’s pension was well below the median household income. - RNUG - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 4:12 pm: == So besides Snopes, which does nothing local, which sites are good for fact checking? == Snopes isn’t all that objective either; they have a political agenda and put their own spin on some subjects. - CapnCrunch - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 4:32 pm: Art Of course, but I was responding to the comment that real incomes were falling. The truth is that getting a 3% bump in your income every year is a very good thing when US ten year rates are at 1.5%. - TinyDancer(FKA Sue) - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 4:44 pm: Crunch What about when rates are 15%? Do you remember the 70’s? 3% is the average rate over time. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 5:26 pm: My heartstrings are tugged mightily by Rauner’s concern for people/jobs leaving the state. However, his prescription for what ails Illinois is contradictory, as others point out. How does one increase incomes by doing as much as possible to decrease them? As others have pointed out, it’s about long-term economic and political control, these far right wing ideas. Yes, Democrats can be blamed/criticized for not having a comprehensive plan to contribute to our economic recovery, but imagine if Democrats were not there to stop Rauner, and imagine Rauner’s agenda before he pared back his demands. - CapnCrunch - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 5:40 pm: Dancer If interest rates do rise to 3% or higher pensioners would, of course, suffer declining real incomes. Predicting interest rates is a fool’s errand. I’m not going there but it sure looks like the “smart money” is not expecting inflation anytime soon. Sovereign interest rates in some countries are lower than they have been in 500 years. In some countries they are negative. The US 10 year rate recently set an all time low. Negative interest rates mean you pay someone to keep your money safe. You get less back. IMHO this makes sense only if you expect the prices of the goods and services will decline more than the loss of your capital. A declining price environment is the opposite of inflation. And, yes, I remember the 1970’s. I had a 7.75% mortgage that the loan company keep offering me incentives to pay off. - TinyDancer (FKA Sue) - Wednesday, Jul 13, 16 @ 7:04 pm: Crunch- Trying to answer you, but for some reason Rich won’t let me. To sum it up - you’re wrong. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.