According to FOX’s Ken Rosenthal, the Chicago White Sox traded Sale to the Boston Red Sox on Tuesday in exchange for Moncada, starting pitcher Michael Kopech and two other prospects.
Yoan Moncada is one of the best prospects to come along in years. Have you seen him play? The dude is a stud. I may be a Red Sox homer but he is a difference maker.
At least he’s still pitching for the Sox, just the wrong color.
They didn’t trade him to the cursed northsiders?
But seriously, Chris Sale gets a chance to win the world series, which is an opportunity he wasn’t going to have anytime soon on the southside. He’s too good to be stuck on a garbage dumpster team.
White Sox picked up loads of young talent, loads! They reportedly got Boston’s 1st, 5th, 8th and 28th prospects … and Boston’s farm system is very, very deep.
Starting pitching has been a Sox strength. But the offense has forced their starters to win too many 1-0 and 2-1 ballgames. Moncada and the other prospects should make the entire team stronger, including the win-loss records of the other pitchers. Now we will see who gets to the World Series quicker, Boston or the White Sox.
- Rahm's Parking Meter - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:57 pm:
Rich, Moncada is compared to Robinson Cano but with more speed.
Your ChiSox are closer to a World Series than this morning.
- Baseball America reading Cubs fan
Moncada looked like crap when he was up with the Red Sox for a short stint this past season. Hopefully for the White Sox he doesn’t turn out to be another Castillo.
So you drop 100 games per for a year or two, then you’re back and better than ever because your GM rebuilt the farm system from the ground up and the new owner gives the GM everything he needs to succeed.
Oh wait, Kenny Williams and what’s his name are still ruining, I mean running, things?
Red Sox now have Porcello (Cy Young), Price, and Sale. If Price starts earning his pay a little better and Sale continues to produce, it could be a very good season for the Red Sox.
Now we need a 3rd baseman who doesn’t outweigh his batting average.
- Ravenswood Right Winger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:14 pm:
The bright side is that it appears Rick Hahn has won the power struggle vs. Kenny Williams. Hahn has wanted to rebuild since he arrived.
Moncada will be good. Kopech OTOH will either be a star or a bust. He was previously suspended for PEDs. Also broke his hand in a fight with a teammate.
He was great for us. I loved watching him pitch. I honestly wish him well and think a change for him at this point is probably a very good thing. Time will tell if we got strong value for him. I’ll applaud him as a visitor. The time was probably right for everyone. When Sale was frustrated, he wasn’t as effective. It’s going to be frustrating on the great Southside for a while yet.
“Moncada is compared to Robinson Cano but with more speed.”
Um, sorry I’d rather have Chris Sale than Robinson Cano with more speed any day and twice on Sundays. Rich said show him a bright side. At least Sale won’t get his arm hurt by Dusty Baker.
== The #1 and #67 prospects in all of baseball coming to the White Sox…
That’s promising. ==
I’m a Cubs fan, so my PoV may be deemed suspect, but I agree with Oswego Willie on this one. That’s actually a pretty nice haul for the White Sox, I think.
**Moncada looked like crap when he was up with the Red Sox for a short stint this past season.**
He had just 20 plate appearances. He has been a complete stud in the minors. He’s the real deal. He might not work out, just like any prospect might not work out. But I’d say he’s the best possible return the White Sox could have received.
Sox did no winning with Sale for years; they wasted him. Young prospects can only help. And his jerky motion and slim build always made me nervous about his throwing out his arm some day. Inevitable.
Moncada could very well be a generational player. I don’t know enough about the other guys to try and brighten your day. It’s a bummer you guys couldn’t pry Turner from the Nationals.
I’m afraid you may be disgusted by the return for Quintana, because believe you me, he’s next.
**Um, sorry I’d rather have Chris Sale than Robinson Cano with more speed any day and twice on Sundays. **
Not if you only have him for the next few years when you suck. The White Sox had to make a decision - rebuild or attempt to contend with a pretty mediocre core (outside of Sale/Quintana). I think that rebuilding was the right decision.
Also, a Cano with more speed would be one of the best players in baseball. From 2009-1016 Cano has averaged 5 WAR a season. That is absolutely elite. He is 6th in all of baseball in WAR over that time period.
Also, just over the last 4 years, Cano has 19.1 WAR to Sale’s 21.5 WAR, and that is Sale is in his prime and Cano at the tail end of his prime.
So trading for 7 years of a Cano with speed vs 3 years of Sale? Plus another top prospect? That’s a pretty good deal.
Who would have thought the Cubs would have been the go to team to emulate on how to rebuild a ball club. Clearly it worked but even with their success there is some luck. I have seen a Cubs WS in my lifetime so now I want to see a Cross Town Classic WS. I believe as long as they continue to unload some stars and rebuild that this is a great move.
You got great prospects for a guy you were never going to keep long term. A great move for the South Side. Might not look like it now, but the Red Sox gave up a lot for this trade.
If the Nats were unwilling to give up Lucas Giolito, the Astros were unwilling to give up Alex Bregman and the Braves were unwilling to give up Dansby Swanson then the BoSox were the only logical option.
=He had just 20 plate appearances. He has been a complete stud in the minors.=
And struck out in most of his 20 ABs. He was badly fooled by major league pitching. Lots of kids are studs in the minors. Castillo always did well in the minors and still couldn’t make it in the majors.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope Moncada figures out major league pitching and performs well for the White Sox. Maybe he just needs the right coaching. But I’m glad the Red Sox protected Benintendi (so far) and dealt Moncada.
I don’t think a team should ever build around one pitcher and expect sustained success. If the Sox were legitimate contenders then you obviously hold on to him. But the wise executive makes the move when a player’s value is at its highest. Gotta take your heart out of the equation Rich. Easier said than done I know.
- Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:37 pm:
Moncada struck out a ton in the minors too, but so did Kris Bryant, and Moncada is a consensus top prospect.
Of course there’s no guarantee he’ll pan out, but considering the options available to the White Sox, seems like a good move to me.
- Signal and Noise - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:41 pm:
Great pitcher but he had to go. They need youth in field positions badly. Keeping him would just mean staying with the status quo of 75-80 win seasons. He was a valuable trade asset and by all accounts terrible in the locker room, so it all makes sense in my book. Gotta get younger, gotta get new talent, so gotta give up some big guns to build for the future.
C’mon, Rich. Building around Sale with second-tier free agents and what little the Sox’ minor league “prospects” can fetch in trades has failed for five straight seasons. We can dream about a new owner who can spend through mistakes, but that just ain’t happening. Time to try something different.
My one trepidation: since Kenny Williams took over, the Sox have utterly failed to identify and develop young position players, so I’m not sure this front office is capable of a rebuild. Let’s hope Hahn has been given free rein.
I always thought we’d be stuck with the hot potato when that left chicken wing of his would explode. I never felt like we’d be able to get value for him. Nothing that should make you feel better about 2017 Rich, but we all know that this team isn’t really equipped to win more than like 85 wins if everything turned out, right? Quintana will be next, and we’ll have a target of 63 wins for next year. 2018 and beyond look a lot better than they did yesterday though. Most optimistic long term move that the franchise has made in some time - even if it meant trading away the best pitcher we’ve had in our lifetime.
My buddy Luis at Bleacher Nation ran some numbers on Sale’s value to the White Sox organization. It’s hard not to think of this trade as being one that will hurt also the city, county, and state at least in the immediate… https://twitter.com/lcm1986/status/806222234247380993
Seriously? #1 prospect in baseball that the Red Sox will be paying for, plus a pitcher that can throw 105mph, plus two middle of the road prospects! White Sox got a bargain, and this is only the beginning. I can’t believe the negativism about this trade. From all sides (especially Sale’s clubhouse demeanor and treatment of management) this is an awesome trade.
Rich-while I agree Sale is a stud pitcher the bright side is it shows potentially that the Sox management realizes how bad the ball club is an d needs to build a farm system to be competitive in years to come. He is one of the few pieces that the organization had that had any real value. I for one hope the restocking continues. Also it will be interesting to hear what other clubhhouse incidents come out-so far I’ve only seen Eaton tweet among his former teammates
Last night on the Score they listed position players who played for the White Sox in 2013-2016 and then never played in the bigs again or played in the bigs for a very short time. I’d list them if I could remember more than a couple of the names, but I repressed that memory because hearing the names made me throw up a little bit in my mouth. It is time for the Sox to try another way.
Rich - the ChiSox commit to an actual rebuild then there is a plan. If they only trade Sale but hold on to Quintana, Frazier, Cabrera and even Robertson (if anyone wants his salary) then there is no plan.
- James the Intolerant - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:21 pm:
I don’t have a lot of confidence in the Sox mgmnt ability to rebuild, but Moncada is (hopefully) a future star. I was always afraid Sale’s arm would fall off, but the Sox would watch him and he would make it every year. I know he doesn’t play, but I wish Kenny Williams would go.
**Do you see a plan here? A semblance of a plan?**
Nope. I’m a Cubs fan, so my concerns don’t really matter. But I think that this is a good trade, but I share the concerns about what the real longterm plan is for the White Sox.
=== Do you see a plan here? A semblance of a plan? ===
Yes I do. There are a few different roads to go down. The 1 year rebuild where you move Sale, Frasier, Cabrera, Robertson. Or the 3 year rebuild where you move all of the above plus Q, Eaton, maybe Abreu, and Nate Jones. Either plan could be successful given the haul they got for Sale, and if the haul continues. Personally, I would love a Robertson for Soler deal if there is a one year rebuild. So many possibilities to be excited about, Rich.
Sox also signed Lawrie and Garcia to one-year deals. So where does Moncada play? Third? Rumor is Sox are shopping Frazier - lots of dingers but no average. Sox also need a catcher who can hit and couple of arms in the pen.
Wow, they must really like Moncada — and the fact that Boston is eating the $31 million balance left on his signing bonus. White Sox start fresh with a rookie contract.
Still, Sale is a top ten pitcher in his prime, a lefty to boot. His contract is sick, an owner’s dream, well below market rate through 2019. He was the top name on the trading block out there.
I think the Red Sox got the best of it.
The question is are the White Sox going to unload the rest of their veterans with value — Quintanna, Abreau, Eaton, Frazier?
I think they should. They’re not going anywhere with this lineup. Get a lot of hungry kids willing to bust their hump and play fundamental baseball on a daily basis.
===You gotta build after that and I don’t have any faith in them to do it.===
Well, have the last 10 years done anything to think they know how to build on the fly? I am sick of being “mired in mediocrity.” If we have to get bad to get good, I will trust the organization. This is finally Rick Hahn’s baby. I have confidence in Rick to do what he wants to do as long as he remains unencumbered by Kenny. If you can’t trust them to rebuild, how can you trust them at all?
Rich: I’m OK with gut and rebuild. Going young carries risk, but the Sox had so many holes in the everyday lineup that having the best starting pitching in the majors was not going to get the Sox very far. Let’s find out if Rick Hahn can generally manage.
“The Red Sox decided to part with Yoan Moncada, perhaps the best prospect in baseball along with fast rising RHP Michael Kopech, who I saw pitch in the Arizona Fall League. Moncada is a five tool talent that fits at either 2B or 3B and he has drawn comparisons to Robinson Cano. Kopech pitches in the mid to upper 90s with a plus slider and an average change. I didn’t see Kopech at his best as he may have been tired and was inconsistent with his mechanics, but he still managed to battle through and shut down the opposition. He should get better as he gains experience and adds stamina.”
and…
” Per Bob Nightengale, the White Sox will also acquire the Red Sox 9th ranked prospect Luis Alexander Basabe, a switch hitting CFer with good speed, defense, and arm but some questions about his bat. They’ll also get hard throwing RP prospect Victor Diaz. That’s a pretty nice haul. I’d have to say the White Sox did well and the Red Sox have positioned themselves to make a run for the title.”
————
I am with you, Rich. I am not a happy camper. I think when you are lucky enough to have one of the finest pitchers of his generation under contract on your team, and fans enjoy him, you don’t throw him away. Many White Sox fans on the internet are deliriously happy because they think this is the clue the white sox are going to do a complete teardown and rebuild. I think they are fools. Sox were a decent catcher and a star centerfielder away from contending in 2017. If Abreau Q and Eaton are traded we’ll just see what the attendance in Guaranteed Rate field is next year.
– Going young carries risk, but the Sox had so many holes in the everyday lineup that having the best starting pitching in the majors was not going to get the Sox very far. –
Let’s not go nuts. With Sale, the Sox didn’t have the best starting pitching in Chicago. Sox were top half in the majors last year; Cubs were best in majors.
Red Sox might have the best starting pitching now, though.
Ah… I get it. It will get better, though. Believe me. Try to find some trust. Remember all the Cub fans crying about “the plan.” They got theirs and they are set up for continued greatness. The Sox can do it too. And I think they will.
White Sox fan since my beloved South Side Hitmen of 1977 and I know it’s painful, but they have been trying to rebuild and compete at the same time. They can never do what the Cubs did and do a total gut. 30,000 people will come out just to see Wrigley. Still, I think when the hand you have isn’t enough you need to discard.
loved what Sale did, saw him pitch multiple times just last year, but he was becoming a problem that could be solved by getting what he is worth on the field.
also a bright side, now that he has gone to the “Second Sox,”
( we had the name first) the other Sox may win the WS….without Theo (freaking Cubs).
Better player development within the organization, better minor league coaches, a huge young crop of pitching prospects even before rebuilding. Renteria will be a decent skipper. I may have more for you at the end of the off season. We’ll see how everything shakes out.
You can either hover around third or fourth place (78 wins) for the next five years with no improvement in sight or do what the Cubs did and accept being a last place (101 lose) team but be building a farm system that may propel you into a top tier team.
- Joe Biden Was Here - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:24 pm:
Good luck to Sale. Sox don’t need a complete rebuild but a couple more trades will be a big group help.
They’ll keep Abreau, much like the Cubs had Rizzo to be a solid guy in rebuilding. Aside from him, I’m not sure who they wouldn’t trade to get better as a group. I’m thinking Sale could have been a stability problem in the future, and we saw a hint of this last year. Better to trade them one year too early than one year too late.
Baseball arguments: everyone’s right and everyone’s wrong. Nothing like ‘em.
Moncada’s arguably the best prospect in baseball. As above has been compared to Cano, and also to peak Ian Kinsler. The Red Sox dropped $60m to sign him; if he’d gone through the draft, he probably would have been a #1 or #2 (I like the Kris Bryant comp). Kopech sits at 100mph.
If they could move a couple other guys, the White Sox could go from a bad farm system to a good one immediately. With a bad free-agent class this year the Sox didn’t have much ability to improve for 2017. I get why they did it, and they got a good haul for what they did. Now, developing their players, well….
– he probably would have been a #1 or #2 (I like the Kris Bryant comp).–
LOL, I bet you do: Rookie of the Year first year, MVP second year.
Is that what they say about Moncada? I’m not up to speed.
Because Bryant’s accomplishments to date are spectacular, but not out of line with what the smart money was saying before he got called up.
- Trapped in the 'burbs - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:03 pm:
Chris Sale gets to pitch for a contender. A guy who battled every outing has a chance to play in the post season for a club committed to win NOW. Thank him for all he did on the Southside and wish him luck.
- You can put it on the board... - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:10 pm:
Now that its done, get more prospects for Quintana. And every other player that has value. BLOW IT UP. Dump them all. Get rid of Kenny too while your at it. Then when they are about to be contenders we can unceremoniously fire Renteria just like the Cubs did.
Time for you sports fans to visit a real sport of the south side… and all of post Olympic fans Chicago wide !!! Rugby !!!!!!!! Where it’s all about leather balls !
“Also, a Cano with more speed would be one of the best players in baseball. From 2009-1016 Cano has averaged 5 WAR a season.”
If he is Cano with speed, I’d still rather have Sale. Sorry, who is to say they only had to have Sale three more years. And, once they trade Quintana, who is going to take the hill forty percent of the time. You are really trusting the Williams/Hahn brain trust? Good luck with that. I’m a Cubs fan but I feel sorry for White Sox fans. I think they are going to regret this trade for a long time.
=== I’m a Cubs fan but I feel sorry for White Sox fans.===
Gosh I remember saying the exact opposite thing from 2004-2015. The Sox are actually going to try to field a team that can compete for years vs the same ol’ buying mid to low end major leaguers and finish .500. There is no reason to feel sorry for White Sox fans. If anything, this would be the time to stop feeling sorry for the White Sox fans having lived through the Cub awfulness followed by Cub awesomeness, aka “The Plan.”
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:53 pm:
Yoan Moncada is one of the best prospects to come along in years. Have you seen him play? The dude is a stud. I may be a Red Sox homer but he is a difference maker.
http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/50723/its-showtime-for-yoan-moncada
- Cadillac - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:53 pm:
At least they didn’t trade him to the Cubs.
- jerry 101 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:55 pm:
At least he’s still pitching for the Sox, just the wrong color.
They didn’t trade him to the cursed northsiders?
But seriously, Chris Sale gets a chance to win the world series, which is an opportunity he wasn’t going to have anytime soon on the southside. He’s too good to be stuck on a garbage dumpster team.
- Deft Wing - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:55 pm:
White Sox picked up loads of young talent, loads! They reportedly got Boston’s 1st, 5th, 8th and 28th prospects … and Boston’s farm system is very, very deep.
The rebuild begins today.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:56 pm:
The #1 and #67 prospects in all of baseball coming to the White Sox…
That’s promising.
- Capitol View - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:56 pm:
Starting pitching has been a Sox strength. But the offense has forced their starters to win too many 1-0 and 2-1 ballgames. Moncada and the other prospects should make the entire team stronger, including the win-loss records of the other pitchers. Now we will see who gets to the World Series quicker, Boston or the White Sox.
- Reality Check - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:57 pm:
Tomorrow’s Sun-Times hed: Sale has Sox change
You’re welcome.
- Anon - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:57 pm:
Throwback jerseys are safe again.
- Rahm's Parking Meter - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:57 pm:
Rich, Moncada is compared to Robinson Cano but with more speed.
Your ChiSox are closer to a World Series than this morning.
- Baseball America reading Cubs fan
- MSIX - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:58 pm:
Moncada looked like crap when he was up with the Red Sox for a short stint this past season. Hopefully for the White Sox he doesn’t turn out to be another Castillo.
- Doug - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:59 pm:
The upside?
The Cubs will be contenders for YEARS……time to change hats Rich.
- Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:00 pm:
White Sox needed to rebuild / need a long run plan.
I’d expect this deal puts their farm system top 5 in baseball. With more to come. Better that than sustained mediocrity/foolish hopes.
- JohnnyPyleDriver - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:02 pm:
More room for you to dance at Guaranteed Rate?
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:03 pm:
Sale Sold.
So you drop 100 games per for a year or two, then you’re back and better than ever because your GM rebuilt the farm system from the ground up and the new owner gives the GM everything he needs to succeed.
Oh wait, Kenny Williams and what’s his name are still ruining, I mean running, things?
- MSIX - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:07 pm:
Red Sox now have Porcello (Cy Young), Price, and Sale. If Price starts earning his pay a little better and Sale continues to produce, it could be a very good season for the Red Sox.
Now we need a 3rd baseman who doesn’t outweigh his batting average.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:07 pm:
Unlike soaring ticket prices at Wrigley ticket prices will remain at a Guaranteed Rate for Sox fans for the near term.
- Jose Abreu's next homer - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:10 pm:
Loved Sale but they couldn’t sniff a post season spot with him during his prime. Sad to see him go but look forward to the new bat.
- William - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
The cursed northsiders? Try opening a newspaper Jerry.
- A guy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:11 pm:
The Throwback uniforms are safe…for now.
- Ravenswood Right Winger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:14 pm:
The bright side is that it appears Rick Hahn has won the power struggle vs. Kenny Williams. Hahn has wanted to rebuild since he arrived.
Moncada will be good. Kopech OTOH will either be a star or a bust. He was previously suspended for PEDs. Also broke his hand in a fight with a teammate.
Now time to trade more veterans, please! REBUILD!
- Porgy Tirebiter - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:14 pm:
- shorter lines at the kosher Dog Grill.
- other than that it’s time to run Williams out on a rail.
- A guy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:14 pm:
He was great for us. I loved watching him pitch. I honestly wish him well and think a change for him at this point is probably a very good thing. Time will tell if we got strong value for him. I’ll applaud him as a visitor. The time was probably right for everyone. When Sale was frustrated, he wasn’t as effective. It’s going to be frustrating on the great Southside for a while yet.
- sal-says - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:16 pm:
‘Prospects’, just that.
And means nothing if Willies &same Sox mgmt is still there.
The real bright side is that you won’t have to get in line for playoff tickets! /s
- Michael Westen - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:17 pm:
“Moncada is compared to Robinson Cano but with more speed.”
Um, sorry I’d rather have Chris Sale than Robinson Cano with more speed any day and twice on Sundays. Rich said show him a bright side. At least Sale won’t get his arm hurt by Dusty Baker.
- thunderspirit - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:18 pm:
== The #1 and #67 prospects in all of baseball coming to the White Sox…
That’s promising. ==
I’m a Cubs fan, so my PoV may be deemed suspect, but I agree with Oswego Willie on this one. That’s actually a pretty nice haul for the White Sox, I think.
- JoeMaddon - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:18 pm:
**Moncada looked like crap when he was up with the Red Sox for a short stint this past season.**
He had just 20 plate appearances. He has been a complete stud in the minors. He’s the real deal. He might not work out, just like any prospect might not work out. But I’d say he’s the best possible return the White Sox could have received.
- Formerpol - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:18 pm:
Sox did no winning with Sale for years; they wasted him. Young prospects can only help. And his jerky motion and slim build always made me nervous about his throwing out his arm some day. Inevitable.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:22 pm:
===his jerky motion===
It’s truly something to behold, but I thought he evened it out a bit this year. Could be wrong, though.
- AlfondoGonz - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:22 pm:
Rich-
Moncada could very well be a generational player. I don’t know enough about the other guys to try and brighten your day. It’s a bummer you guys couldn’t pry Turner from the Nationals.
I’m afraid you may be disgusted by the return for Quintana, because believe you me, he’s next.
- Winnin' - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:23 pm:
On the bright side?
Possibly puts more money in Reinsforf’s pocket … which is the ultimate objective.
And, gets rid of a mercurial personality.
- JoeMaddon - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:24 pm:
**Um, sorry I’d rather have Chris Sale than Robinson Cano with more speed any day and twice on Sundays. **
Not if you only have him for the next few years when you suck. The White Sox had to make a decision - rebuild or attempt to contend with a pretty mediocre core (outside of Sale/Quintana). I think that rebuilding was the right decision.
Also, a Cano with more speed would be one of the best players in baseball. From 2009-1016 Cano has averaged 5 WAR a season. That is absolutely elite. He is 6th in all of baseball in WAR over that time period.
Also, just over the last 4 years, Cano has 19.1 WAR to Sale’s 21.5 WAR, and that is Sale is in his prime and Cano at the tail end of his prime.
So trading for 7 years of a Cano with speed vs 3 years of Sale? Plus another top prospect? That’s a pretty good deal.
- Suburban Hillbilly - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:25 pm:
Who would have thought the Cubs would have been the go to team to emulate on how to rebuild a ball club. Clearly it worked but even with their success there is some luck. I have seen a Cubs WS in my lifetime so now I want to see a Cross Town Classic WS. I believe as long as they continue to unload some stars and rebuild that this is a great move.
- Now What? - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:27 pm:
You got great prospects for a guy you were never going to keep long term. A great move for the South Side. Might not look like it now, but the Red Sox gave up a lot for this trade.
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:28 pm:
If the Nats were unwilling to give up Lucas Giolito, the Astros were unwilling to give up Alex Bregman and the Braves were unwilling to give up Dansby Swanson then the BoSox were the only logical option.
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:29 pm:
Also - the Dodgers were not going to trade Julio Urias.
- JoeMaddon - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:29 pm:
Also, Moncada and Kopech immediately become the White Sox top two prospects.
- MSIX - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:29 pm:
=He had just 20 plate appearances. He has been a complete stud in the minors.=
And struck out in most of his 20 ABs. He was badly fooled by major league pitching. Lots of kids are studs in the minors. Castillo always did well in the minors and still couldn’t make it in the majors.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope Moncada figures out major league pitching and performs well for the White Sox. Maybe he just needs the right coaching. But I’m glad the Red Sox protected Benintendi (so far) and dealt Moncada.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:35 pm:
Bright side? The clubhouse is now safe from the scourge of clubhouse cancer Drake LaRoche and his defenders? /s
- JoeMaddon - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:35 pm:
**And struck out in most of his 20 ABs.**
20 plate appearances. That’s all. It tells us absolutely nothing.
- Cubs in '16 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:37 pm:
I don’t think a team should ever build around one pitcher and expect sustained success. If the Sox were legitimate contenders then you obviously hold on to him. But the wise executive makes the move when a player’s value is at its highest. Gotta take your heart out of the equation Rich. Easier said than done I know.
- Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:37 pm:
Moncada struck out a ton in the minors too, but so did Kris Bryant, and Moncada is a consensus top prospect.
Of course there’s no guarantee he’ll pan out, but considering the options available to the White Sox, seems like a good move to me.
- Big Muddy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:39 pm:
What comes first, White Sox win the world series or Illinois has a truly balanced budget?
- Reality Check - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:40 pm:
Listen to @JoeMaddon. That is all.
- Signal and Noise - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:41 pm:
Great pitcher but he had to go. They need youth in field positions badly. Keeping him would just mean staying with the status quo of 75-80 win seasons. He was a valuable trade asset and by all accounts terrible in the locker room, so it all makes sense in my book. Gotta get younger, gotta get new talent, so gotta give up some big guns to build for the future.
- B.C. - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:44 pm:
C’mon, Rich. Building around Sale with second-tier free agents and what little the Sox’ minor league “prospects” can fetch in trades has failed for five straight seasons. We can dream about a new owner who can spend through mistakes, but that just ain’t happening. Time to try something different.
My one trepidation: since Kenny Williams took over, the Sox have utterly failed to identify and develop young position players, so I’m not sure this front office is capable of a rebuild. Let’s hope Hahn has been given free rein.
- milkman - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:46 pm:
They had Sale under contract at a cheap price for 2 more years I heard. Doesn’t sound like they got enough for him
- Baines4Prez - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:47 pm:
I always thought we’d be stuck with the hot potato when that left chicken wing of his would explode. I never felt like we’d be able to get value for him. Nothing that should make you feel better about 2017 Rich, but we all know that this team isn’t really equipped to win more than like 85 wins if everything turned out, right? Quintana will be next, and we’ll have a target of 63 wins for next year. 2018 and beyond look a lot better than they did yesterday though. Most optimistic long term move that the franchise has made in some time - even if it meant trading away the best pitcher we’ve had in our lifetime.
- Sam Weinberg - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:47 pm:
You didn’t have a prayer of catching the Cleveland Indians over the next 2-3 years, regardless.
It’s better this way.
- Barton Lorimor - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:49 pm:
My buddy Luis at Bleacher Nation ran some numbers on Sale’s value to the White Sox organization. It’s hard not to think of this trade as being one that will hurt also the city, county, and state at least in the immediate…
https://twitter.com/lcm1986/status/806222234247380993
- Tommydanger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:52 pm:
No, Reality Check, the headline is, ” Sale changes Sox.”
There, you’re welcome!
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:57 pm:
===Who can tell me the bright side?===
Seriously? #1 prospect in baseball that the Red Sox will be paying for, plus a pitcher that can throw 105mph, plus two middle of the road prospects! White Sox got a bargain, and this is only the beginning. I can’t believe the negativism about this trade. From all sides (especially Sale’s clubhouse demeanor and treatment of management) this is an awesome trade.
- Mark - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:07 pm:
Rich-while I agree Sale is a stud pitcher the bright side is it shows potentially that the Sox management realizes how bad the ball club is an d needs to build a farm system to be competitive in years to come. He is one of the few pieces that the organization had that had any real value. I for one hope the restocking continues. Also it will be interesting to hear what other clubhhouse incidents come out-so far I’ve only seen Eaton tweet among his former teammates
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:09 pm:
===shows potentially that the Sox management realizes how bad the ball club is===
I don’t believe that for a millisecond. I also don’t believe management is at all capable of a rebuilding.
Say what you want about the Cubs, but they had a plan and the people to implement it. Do you see a plan here? A semblance of a plan?
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:10 pm:
===It’s better this way===
That’s what people say when they pull the plug on a loved one.
Just sayin…
- So_Ill - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:14 pm:
Great trade by the White Sox. Rebuilds are painfull but so worth it.
Signed,
Cubs fan
- SAP - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:17 pm:
Last night on the Score they listed position players who played for the White Sox in 2013-2016 and then never played in the bigs again or played in the bigs for a very short time. I’d list them if I could remember more than a couple of the names, but I repressed that memory because hearing the names made me throw up a little bit in my mouth. It is time for the Sox to try another way.
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:19 pm:
Rich - the ChiSox commit to an actual rebuild then there is a plan. If they only trade Sale but hold on to Quintana, Frazier, Cabrera and even Robertson (if anyone wants his salary) then there is no plan.
- James the Intolerant - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:21 pm:
I don’t have a lot of confidence in the Sox mgmnt ability to rebuild, but Moncada is (hopefully) a future star. I was always afraid Sale’s arm would fall off, but the Sox would watch him and he would make it every year. I know he doesn’t play, but I wish Kenny Williams would go.
- JoeMaddon - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:25 pm:
**Do you see a plan here? A semblance of a plan?**
Nope. I’m a Cubs fan, so my concerns don’t really matter. But I think that this is a good trade, but I share the concerns about what the real longterm plan is for the White Sox.
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:26 pm:
=== Do you see a plan here? A semblance of a plan? ===
Yes I do. There are a few different roads to go down. The 1 year rebuild where you move Sale, Frasier, Cabrera, Robertson. Or the 3 year rebuild where you move all of the above plus Q, Eaton, maybe Abreu, and Nate Jones. Either plan could be successful given the haul they got for Sale, and if the haul continues. Personally, I would love a Robertson for Soler deal if there is a one year rebuild. So many possibilities to be excited about, Rich.
- Bogey Golfer - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:27 pm:
Sox also signed Lawrie and Garcia to one-year deals. So where does Moncada play? Third? Rumor is Sox are shopping Frazier - lots of dingers but no average. Sox also need a catcher who can hit and couple of arms in the pen.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:28 pm:
Wow, they must really like Moncada — and the fact that Boston is eating the $31 million balance left on his signing bonus. White Sox start fresh with a rookie contract.
Still, Sale is a top ten pitcher in his prime, a lefty to boot. His contract is sick, an owner’s dream, well below market rate through 2019. He was the top name on the trading block out there.
I think the Red Sox got the best of it.
The question is are the White Sox going to unload the rest of their veterans with value — Quintanna, Abreau, Eaton, Frazier?
I think they should. They’re not going anywhere with this lineup. Get a lot of hungry kids willing to bust their hump and play fundamental baseball on a daily basis.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:28 pm:
The arrow is always pointing down at “Guaranteed Rate Stadium.”
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:32 pm:
===Or the 3 year rebuild where you move all of the above plus Q, Eaton, maybe Abreu, and Nate Jones===
That’s not a rebuild. That’s a gutting to the studs.
You gotta build after that and I don’t have any faith in them to do it.
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:36 pm:
@Bogey Golfer
He will be playing in Charlotte or Winston-Salem this year.
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:39 pm:
===You gotta build after that and I don’t have any faith in them to do it.===
Well, have the last 10 years done anything to think they know how to build on the fly? I am sick of being “mired in mediocrity.” If we have to get bad to get good, I will trust the organization. This is finally Rick Hahn’s baby. I have confidence in Rick to do what he wants to do as long as he remains unencumbered by Kenny. If you can’t trust them to rebuild, how can you trust them at all?
- SAP - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:41 pm:
Rich: I’m OK with gut and rebuild. Going young carries risk, but the Sox had so many holes in the everyday lineup that having the best starting pitching in the majors was not going to get the Sox very far. Let’s find out if Rick Hahn can generally manage.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:43 pm:
===as long as he remains unencumbered by Kenny===
Highly doubt that’ll happen.
===If you can’t trust them to rebuild, how can you trust them at all?===
I don’t. At all. They suck.
- Anon Downstate - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:45 pm:
This comes from “Cubs Den”:
“The Red Sox decided to part with Yoan Moncada, perhaps the best prospect in baseball along with fast rising RHP Michael Kopech, who I saw pitch in the Arizona Fall League. Moncada is a five tool talent that fits at either 2B or 3B and he has drawn comparisons to Robinson Cano. Kopech pitches in the mid to upper 90s with a plus slider and an average change. I didn’t see Kopech at his best as he may have been tired and was inconsistent with his mechanics, but he still managed to battle through and shut down the opposition. He should get better as he gains experience and adds stamina.”
and…
” Per Bob Nightengale, the White Sox will also acquire the Red Sox 9th ranked prospect Luis Alexander Basabe, a switch hitting CFer with good speed, defense, and arm but some questions about his bat. They’ll also get hard throwing RP prospect Victor Diaz. That’s a pretty nice haul. I’d have to say the White Sox did well and the Red Sox have positioned themselves to make a run for the title.”
————
Link is: http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2016/12/red-sox-acquire-chris-sale/
These guys pay serious attention to minor league players. They say the White Sox made a good trade, that’s extremely high praise.
Now the question is, does ownership have a plan? And they better have some plan alternatives in case something goes wrong (which btw, always happens).
IMO, (just a thought), try and pry Jorge Solar from the Northside. DH and/or right field.
- Responsa - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:45 pm:
I am with you, Rich. I am not a happy camper. I think when you are lucky enough to have one of the finest pitchers of his generation under contract on your team, and fans enjoy him, you don’t throw him away. Many White Sox fans on the internet are deliriously happy because they think this is the clue the white sox are going to do a complete teardown and rebuild. I think they are fools. Sox were a decent catcher and a star centerfielder away from contending in 2017. If Abreau Q and Eaton are traded we’ll just see what the attendance in Guaranteed Rate field is next year.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:49 pm:
– Going young carries risk, but the Sox had so many holes in the everyday lineup that having the best starting pitching in the majors was not going to get the Sox very far. –
Let’s not go nuts. With Sale, the Sox didn’t have the best starting pitching in Chicago. Sox were top half in the majors last year; Cubs were best in majors.
Red Sox might have the best starting pitching now, though.
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:50 pm:
===I don’t. At all. They suck.===
Ah… I get it. It will get better, though. Believe me. Try to find some trust. Remember all the Cub fans crying about “the plan.” They got theirs and they are set up for continued greatness. The Sox can do it too. And I think they will.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:51 pm:
There is a huge trust factor lacking with the White Sox Front Office…
… And the fans don’t trust the Front Office either.
To me, that’s a lot of this in a nutshell… no one is sharing the foxhole, and the distain from the fans is warranted too.
- Carhartt Representative - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:07 pm:
White Sox fan since my beloved South Side Hitmen of 1977 and I know it’s painful, but they have been trying to rebuild and compete at the same time. They can never do what the Cubs did and do a total gut. 30,000 people will come out just to see Wrigley. Still, I think when the hand you have isn’t enough you need to discard.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:08 pm:
===I think they will===
Based on what?
- Amalia - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:12 pm:
loved what Sale did, saw him pitch multiple times just last year, but he was becoming a problem that could be solved by getting what he is worth on the field.
also a bright side, now that he has gone to the “Second Sox,”
( we had the name first) the other Sox may win the WS….without Theo (freaking Cubs).
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:15 pm:
===Based on what?===
Better player development within the organization, better minor league coaches, a huge young crop of pitching prospects even before rebuilding. Renteria will be a decent skipper. I may have more for you at the end of the off season. We’ll see how everything shakes out.
- Gabby Hartnett - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:16 pm:
You can either hover around third or fourth place (78 wins) for the next five years with no improvement in sight or do what the Cubs did and accept being a last place (101 lose) team but be building a farm system that may propel you into a top tier team.
- Joe Biden Was Here - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:24 pm:
Good luck to Sale. Sox don’t need a complete rebuild but a couple more trades will be a big group help.
- Hon. Don Gerard - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:31 pm:
As per fellas on 670theScore today…
“Good riddance to the embarrassing whole Duck Dynasty & he can take Shields with him, too…”
(or something to that effect)
- A guy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:31 pm:
They’ll keep Abreau, much like the Cubs had Rizzo to be a solid guy in rebuilding. Aside from him, I’m not sure who they wouldn’t trade to get better as a group. I’m thinking Sale could have been a stability problem in the future, and we saw a hint of this last year. Better to trade them one year too early than one year too late.
Baseball arguments: everyone’s right and everyone’s wrong. Nothing like ‘em.
- whetstone - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:36 pm:
Moncada’s arguably the best prospect in baseball. As above has been compared to Cano, and also to peak Ian Kinsler. The Red Sox dropped $60m to sign him; if he’d gone through the draft, he probably would have been a #1 or #2 (I like the Kris Bryant comp). Kopech sits at 100mph.
If they could move a couple other guys, the White Sox could go from a bad farm system to a good one immediately. With a bad free-agent class this year the Sox didn’t have much ability to improve for 2017. I get why they did it, and they got a good haul for what they did. Now, developing their players, well….
- A guy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:37 pm:
===but they had a plan and the people to implement it. Do you see a plan here? A semblance of a plan?===
We’re still talkin’ about baseball, right?
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:42 pm:
– he probably would have been a #1 or #2 (I like the Kris Bryant comp).–
LOL, I bet you do: Rookie of the Year first year, MVP second year.
Is that what they say about Moncada? I’m not up to speed.
Because Bryant’s accomplishments to date are spectacular, but not out of line with what the smart money was saying before he got called up.
- Trapped in the 'burbs - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:03 pm:
Chris Sale gets to pitch for a contender. A guy who battled every outing has a chance to play in the post season for a club committed to win NOW. Thank him for all he did on the Southside and wish him luck.
- You can put it on the board... - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:10 pm:
Now that its done, get more prospects for Quintana. And every other player that has value. BLOW IT UP. Dump them all. Get rid of Kenny too while your at it. Then when they are about to be contenders we can unceremoniously fire Renteria just like the Cubs did.
- Railrat - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:14 pm:
Time for you sports fans to visit a real sport of the south side… and all of post Olympic fans Chicago wide !!! Rugby !!!!!!!! Where it’s all about leather balls !
- Michael Westen - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:30 pm:
“Also, a Cano with more speed would be one of the best players in baseball. From 2009-1016 Cano has averaged 5 WAR a season.”
If he is Cano with speed, I’d still rather have Sale. Sorry, who is to say they only had to have Sale three more years. And, once they trade Quintana, who is going to take the hill forty percent of the time. You are really trusting the Williams/Hahn brain trust? Good luck with that. I’m a Cubs fan but I feel sorry for White Sox fans. I think they are going to regret this trade for a long time.
- Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 5:35 pm:
=== I’m a Cubs fan but I feel sorry for White Sox fans.===
Gosh I remember saying the exact opposite thing from 2004-2015. The Sox are actually going to try to field a team that can compete for years vs the same ol’ buying mid to low end major leaguers and finish .500. There is no reason to feel sorry for White Sox fans. If anything, this would be the time to stop feeling sorry for the White Sox fans having lived through the Cub awfulness followed by Cub awesomeness, aka “The Plan.”
- Amalia - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 6:14 pm:
at least we did not trade him to the Trump Cubs.