For the CTU, the rally sets the stage for another fight on Wednesday, when the new school board deals with a proposed longer school day and contractually-obligated four percent teacher pay raises.
“I don’t believe in slavery on any level. I don’t believe we should work for free. Ever. And we’re not going to,” said Lewis.
Slavery? Whew. That’s some overly charged rhetoric if ever there was overly charged rhetoric, especially considering this…
CPS officials say that even if the 4 percent hike is denied, 75 percent of teachers will still get a pay increase next year. They will qualify for step increases of 3 to 5 percent granted for more years of service.
Newly-seated Chicago School Board members ruled Wednesday that the cash-strapped CPS system does not have the money to cover promised 4 percent raises for teachers and other union workers.
The Chicago Teachers Union now has until the end of the day Monday to decide whether to reopen their contract with the district to negotiate on the issue.
The unanimous decision came after board members were told that nearly three-quarters of the system’s teachers will get some kind of raise — at a cost to the district of $35 million — even if the board refused to cover the 4 percent raises — which cost $80 million. […]
The vote came even after officials said the district’s deficit isn’t as bad as had been thought. During the meeting, new Chief Operating Officer Tim Cawley pinned the system’s current shortfall at $712 million, down from the $720 million the district had previously estimated. Still, plugging that budget hole, Cawley said, will be a “daunting challenge.”
“It would make no sense for this brand new board to shortchange the children who need a quality teacher in every classroom by voting down teachers’ raises. In terms of salary, CPS ranks 71st in salary for high school teachers and 38th in salary for elementary school teachers in this state,” said Karen Lewis with the Chicago Teachers’ Union.
“Mr. Brizzard, come to the school that my daughter goes to, without your suit and tie, just come up there unannounced and you’ll see what these teachers go through. So before you say, ‘Well we don’t have that money,’ the money is in that budget. The school has that money. If you go through the fraud and waste, there’s more than $100 million,” said parent Ronald Jackson.
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 12:54 pm:
Only 1 out of 8 Chicago Public School kids graduate from a 4-year college or university.
If we were paying for performance, the teachers would all get pay cuts, not raises (I know more goes into student performance than just the teachers, but cmon, no one else is getting raises around here)
- John A Logan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 12:55 pm:
Slavery? I will start the countdown till someone brings hitler into the conversation, 10, 9, 8, 7……
“It would make no sense for this brand new board to shortchange the children who need a quality teacher in every classroom by voting down teachers’ raises.”
Parse that sentence for a minute. Join me in laughter.
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:04 pm:
It’s hardly slavery when 75% of the teachers will still be receiving raises. My district froze both raises and step increases last year. With the state income tax hike, we ended up making less after the New Year. I don’t quite feel I’m performing slave labor, though.
Ms Lewis needs to tone down the rhetoric and start speaking responsibly if she expects to be heard. The time for over-the-top tough talk has long since passed.
- “It would make no sense for this brand new board to shortchange the children who need a quality teacher in every classroom by voting down teachers’ raises”. -
Huh? How is denying a teacher’s raise ’shortchanging’ a student?
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:39 pm:
Of course, the best you can ever do is say the 2nd dumbest thing a teacher’s union leader has ever said. Because we will always have this: Albert Shanker, the late president of the American Federation of Teachers famously said: “When school children start paying union dues, that‘s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children.”
I think that the rest of the middle class needs to rise up and organize against corporate welfare…Ms. Lewis’ comment was over the top, but if folks don’t start advocating for their own interests, the politicians who supposedly represent them sure as hell won’t do it for them…
- What's in a name? - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:49 pm:
Unfortunately, the public views the teachers and the teachers’ union as one and the same. The teachers are often heros. The union is despicable. The union cloaks every issue in what’s good for the children. The only, and I mean only motivation for the union is what’s good for the union. Talk about being completely tone deaf.
Teachers are ill served by their union leadership. Teachers would be better off in an at-will, right-to-work environment with no tenure for anyone below college level. They would then be paid more in line with their abilities, which in a majority of cases is outstanding. The chaff would be eliminated, and the wheat would remain.
- Way Way Down Here - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:13 pm:
Loop Lady, you should have said “what’s left” of the middle class. Just sayin’
- Flaming Liberal - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:27 pm:
Rich and all, I just read were the Wisconsin Supreme Court overturned the judges ruling to stop the anti-worker collective bargaining bill on a 4-3 vote. A real back breaker for public employees and the Democratic party. My understanding is the bill only allows for collective bargaining for wages, and even those are limited to an inflation variable, and eliminates automatic payment of union dues directly from the state. Our brothers and sisters fought and protested and still came up short. If this is a trend say good bye to the Democratic party.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:34 pm:
If the goal is to ensure our ability to attract and retain quality teachers in every classroom, someone please explain to me how cutting teachers pay helps achieve that goal.
The best teachers who can will leave for one of the 70 other school districts in Illinois that pay more. Where teachers are not scapegoated.
We will be left with more vacancies, less qualified teachers, and fewer qualified applicants.
Apparently, no one in the CPS administration took Economics 101.
The Wisconsin State Supreme Court ruled 7 - 0 that Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi overstepped her bounds by declaring the recent collective bargaining bill void. The court also ruled 4 - 3 that the bill was now law.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:37 pm:
@Cincinattus -
Tell that to the principal who was fired by CPS for refusing to place 45 students in a classroom.
Without collective bargaining rights, what we would see is CPS purging our school system of the best teachers in order to balance the budget.
What I learned in Econ was that you don’t pay more than the going rate. In Chicago, private school teachers make less than public school. That seems to set the market rate. CPS pays a premium.
That makes perfect sense if you are getting better results. A BMW costs more than a Ford, but the BMW has better brakes so some think that’s a pretty good deal.
How does CPS compare on quality though? Not good. CPS pays more, but gets less.
So the economics of the deal seem to be that CPS pays a lot for a bad product. From an economic perspective, that doesn’t seem like a good idea.
- Small Town Liberal - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:47 pm:
- The best teachers who can will leave for one of the 70 other school districts in Illinois that pay more. -
No, that only works for CEOs, not teachers. Don’t you watch Fox?
With what’s happening to teachers in other states, I don’t think this is the time to complain about slavery. Illinois still has collective bargaining rights and will attract good teachers from other states if they get their fiscal act together. Our unions are still important, they show this when they take the team player approach, rather than an adversarial one.
Oh, man. Lewis isn’t very smart, is she? Is she a CPS graduate?
There is support for raises for good teachers. I think everyone would agree that the entirety of CPS is not serving students well, and that structural changes are needed. But slavery?
Who is dumb enough to say that when so many taxpayers have had to take pay cuts or have been asked to put in longer hours in this recession?
CPS has been making so much progress over the years, and now this loon is going to set it all back. And who suffers? The most important people in the schools, the students, who are too young to vote.
Cincinnatus,
Take away unions and tenure and somehow teachers will magically make more money? I guess the term you used was “better off.” Where’s the money going to come from?
- Small Town Liberal - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:23 pm:
- The good ones, yes. Do the bad ones deserve more? -
That doesn’t answer the question. You said:
“They would then be paid more in line with their abilities, which in a majority of cases is outstanding.”
How would that magically happen? Are the parents going to send extra money with their kids if they really like the teacher?
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:23 pm:
That’s right Ms. lewis, slap that slavery card down and watch how fast the powers that be cut more programs for the poor so that your raises on top of raises can be given. Jeeeez, wake up.
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:29 pm:
Oh and Cincinnatus, I agree with your thoughts on SB1932. Should be able to pass a bill like that very easily…..if the CTU didn’t fight it so vehemently!! Give parents a choice!
–Oh and Cincinnatus, I agree with your thoughts on SB1932. Should be able to pass a bill like that very easily…..if the CTU didn’t fight it so vehemently!! Give parents a choice!–
I don’t think the CTU kept all those downstate Republicans off Meek’s voucher bill that failed in the House last May.
For the record, it got 48 votes, 26 Republicans and 22 Democrats.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:47 pm:
@Skeeter -
First, the top private schools in Chicago — U of C Lab School, Francis Parker and Latin School — all pay more than CPS.
Secondly, the tuition requirements and admission requirements for private schools do a FINE job of ensuring that private schools can cream the best students.
Comparing apples and oranges won’t get you anywhere.
There are currently 250,000 laid off teachers in the US. IF Chicago teachers were overpaid, we would be FLOODED with applications from overqualified candidates.
Instead, our school district suffers from chronic shortages of math, science, reading, special education, and now even PE teachers.
Teaching in Chicago’s public schools is arguably the toughest teaching job in the state.
Yet Chicago teachers’ pay ranks 71st.
Just ask yourself, all other things being equal, would you rather teach at Francis Parker or CPS?
Now ask yourself how much MORE someone would have to pay you to leave Francis Parker to go teach on the Southside or Westside.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:53 pm:
Lewis’ rhetoric is overheated, but she’s still on point.
It is unrealistic to expect teachers to work 20% more hours for the same pay.
Its immoral to ask them to work more hours for free under the guise of “shared sacrifice” when you are giving the school superintendent a pay raise.
And, have no doubt that even with these cuts we will see a massive property tax hike to close the budget hole.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:58 pm:
=== Our unions are still important, they show this when they take the team player approach, rather than an adversarial one. ===
I’m sorry, but who picked this fight?
Teachers are being forced to give up a promised pay hike, and in return they were offered what exactly?
Make no mistake. This move was designed to provoke a fight with the unions, just like Brizzard’s hiring.
===Make no mistake. This move was designed to provoke a fight with the unions, just like Brizzard’s hiring. ===
It’s been pretty much assumed for months that the CTU was gearing up for a strike. So, everybody went into defense mode, including the GA. That’s really why the ed reform bill passed. And it’s why Brizzard was hired. They weren’t trying to pick a fight, they’re trying to either head one off (strike language in bill) or fight back (Brizzard, etc.).
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:07 pm:
@wordslinger…..For the record the bill is still on 3rd reading in the Senate….never got called
4/15/2011 Senate Rule 2-10 Third Reading Deadline Established As May 4, 2011
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:14 pm:
@Rich -
STAND for Children IL PAC was formed two days after Daley announced his retirement, way back in September.
This is just the warm up to contract negotiations. Last year in my district we were threatened with furloughs and forced increases in insurance deductions, besides the pay freeze. Instead of making threats, we forced the administration to open up the budget and found where money could be saved elsewhere. Non-union staff suffered most of these cuts, but the teachers didn’t.
There will be a grievance filed against CPS. They will not be able to refuse increases in wages already guaranteed by their current contract with the teachers. There wasn’t any need for Lewis to spout off in such a negative fashion. She won’t get much public support with angry rhetoric.
Chicago teachers work 174 days a year, Counting 2 half days and the last day of school 1 hour day as full days. Chicago public school teachers make more than the national Avg. in pay. For the last 20 years Daley has given the teachers 4% a year to avoid a strike all while ignoring the needs of the children. The teachers always hold the kids hostage knowing daley wouldnt risk a strike. Good luck finding another job working 6 hours a day for a total of less than 6 months with full pay and Insurance.
I think breaking a contract is wrong, this fight should of happened after the contract expired. Funny the Dems are in complete control in Chicago and Illinois yet the unions are still taking a beating, I guess all those campaign donations just rented the lawmakers not bought them.
=I think that the rest of the middle class needs to rise up and organize against corporate welfare…=
Yeah…while you didn’t go into the details of how to do that, I’m going to assume that the approach envisioned is somewhat “reactionary” or “revolutionary”, which probably isn’t a real good idea because I’m going to guess the result could be more jobs going overseas–which some people might actually like along with the related “upheaval” here in the US.
We’ll think of something, but I don’t think it’ll be along the lines of the way it’s done in other countries, who have a tendency to run out into the streets at lunch time and start throwing rocks at police.
And to support my statement that going out into the streets and throwing rocks at people probably isn’t a good idea: For some reason, I don’t see some “nice” corporation ANYWHERE in the world feeling sorry for those poor Americans to the point that they’d ship THEIR jobs back to us…as some “US” companies did with e.g., Northern Ireland.
And just some “food for thought” and a question for those politicians who love pandering to ethnic groups here in the US so much: How many countries actually pander to your average “ugly American” living overseas–unless, of course, it’s to those who are in a position to ship more of our jobs to them?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 11:19 am:
@Fed Up -
Everyone agrees that if we want to have the best schools in the country, we have to attract and retain the best teachers in the country. If you think we can do that without offering salaries and benefits that not only compete with other school districts, but with private sector job opportunities, you are deluded.
The majority of Chicago public school teachers have Master’s degrees, more than 11 years professional experience in their field, and continuing education requirements. For an average salary of $65,000 a year.
The work 50-60 hours a week, not just teaching but preparing lesson plans and grading homework and tests.
If you have a bachelor’s degree in English and you were choosing between law school, going to work for a PR firm, or teaching in Chicago’s public schools, where would you go?
If you have a bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and you had a choice between going to medical school, working for Abbott labs, or teaching in Chicago’s public schools, where would you go?
If you had a bachelor’s degree in mathematics or computer science and had a choice between going to work for Google, Microsoft, or teaching in Chicago public schools, where would you go?
According to Education Week, Maryland has the best public school system in the country.
Not surprisingly, Maryland teachers are the fourth highest paid in the country, earning $10,000 a year more than the national average.
And while Illinois is moving to strip teachers of the benefits of tenure, Maryland just lowered its tenure requirement from four years to three.
Yellow Dog, those teachers are better paid than teachers in all but four private schools and they produce lousy results. Only in Chicago do we pay a premium to get a bad product.
If workers in any other profession did as bad, they would all be replaced. Given what they’ve accomplished, they should be lucky that they have jobs at all.
Let them all quit. Fine. Bring in people who can teach.
$65,000 per year and the summer off? And no requirement that you actually have to produce results? Where do I sign up? That’s a gift.
And I’m tired of hearing about this “Master’s Degree” stuff. How many of those are from real schools? A Master’s from Chicago State? The real Skeeter, a large German Shepherd Dog, can probably qualify for one from that place. Having a Master’s Degree does not tell me anything. Tell me where it is from. And tell me how the students in the teacher’s class did. Then tell me how much money you want.
I have to say that this whole discussion is one of the few on this site that makes me really angry. These teachers have failed and the result is that I need to pay both taxes to support these miserable teachers AND must pay about $20,000 for each of my children so that they can get a quality education.
And now these teachers that have failed so badly that I can’t send my kids to CPS want more of my money? No way. I’m tired of CPS caving. Let them go on strike. Hire scabs. No way the scabs can be any worse.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 12:49 pm:
=== Let them all quit. Fine. Bring in people who can teach. ===
LOL. In case you hadn’t heard, CPS isn’t swamped with applications. You think they are going to increase with a pay freeze?
CHRONIC shortages of teachers for English, Math, Science, Learning Disabilities, and even PE now.
Its because Chicago’s the toughest teaching job in the state and 71st in pay.
And PUH-LEEZ stop making the ridiculous comparison between CPS and private schools.
Private schools exclude children with learning disabilities. Private schools have admissions tests that screen out below average students. Private schools have tuition requirements that screen out at-risk students.
Chicago public elementary schools have a teacher-to-pupil ratio of 20-1.
At Francis Parker, 9-1. Latin School, 8-to-1. Catholic Schools, its around 13-1.
I share your frustration, Skeeter.
State funding for CPS has fallen from the 50% required by the Constitution to about 25%.
The school district is faced with making up that shortfall through either cutting expenses or raising taxes or both.
But EVERY study says that a world class education system is the core of our economic future.
That’s a good reason to look at things like TIF reform and say “Hey, if we want to bring jobs to Chicago, we’d be better off spending this money improving student performance than building flower boxes.”
Chicago can not be a world class city if it offers a third world public education system.
Interesting. Are you now admitting that CPS teachers are bottom of the barrel? Nobody wants to work there, you say, and we all know that results are terrible.
Your solution is to give them a raise?
How about this: Fire them all and then make them re-appply for the jobs. The teachers that in the past have produced get to keep their jobs and 4% more. The teachers that have failed get to find their next calling.
And you bring up Latin and Parker. Those are two of four where teachers make more than at CPS. But in hundreds of other private schools, the teachers make less and yet results are still superior.
Toughest job in the state? Let’s contemplate that one a while.
$65,000 per year.
Summer off.
Slack off? No big deal. Get paid anyway.
Produce lousy results? Fine. Here’s your paycheck.
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
We do agree that a world class education is necessary. But we disagree that throwing gobs of money at the problem will solve the problem.
Until we impose real standards on teachers and force them to produce or lose the job (just like everybody else in every other job) all that money might as well be flushed.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 12:58 pm:
@Skeeter -
I’m guessing that most of the Master’s degrees come from National Lewis University, which is where most teachers from the region — including the suburbs — earn their degrees.
There are no winners in a strike, only losers. You, Mayor Emanuel and the Chicago Tribune should stop pushing for one.
Frankly, I don’t think what the CTU is asking for is either unreasonable or surprising. Most people expect to be paid more if they are forced to work more hours.
How much more should be the subject of negotiations, but for you, the Tribune, and CPS to take the flat-out position that we won’t even talk about more money is absurd.
If you, Mayor Emanuel and the Tribune think that we need to do a better job of attracting and retaining better qualified teachers, propose a solution.
But stop with the ridiculous idea that cutting teacher pay is going to mean MORE qualified applicants. It doesn’t even pass the smell test.
Fine. As I noted, I would support 4% if we could immediately fire them all and then have them re-apply. Heck, give them even more than 4% if it means getting wood of the rotten ones.
That’s your goal, right YDD? To recruit good teachers? And that means we get rid of the lousy ones right?
You would support that I assume. After all, you want good public schools. You are not just shilling for the union, right?
Seems my solution works for everybody. Talented teachers gets jobs and better pay and the rest go find work at Dominicks, which is pretty much what the NLU Masters qualifies them to do.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 1:20 pm:
=== But in hundreds of other private schools, the teachers make less and yet results are still superior. ===
Skeeter -
Chicago Magazine lists the Top 25 private schools in Chicago. 23 of the 25 have a lower teacher-to-pupil ratio than CPS elementary schools.
Some as low as 5-to-1.
And superior results? Based on what? Standardized test scores? Private elementary schools don’t take them.
Look at Chicago Magazine’s comparison of private schools and you’ll notice right away that those with the best pay, best teacher-to-pupil ratio, highest tuition, and most-restrictive enrollment policies are the highest performing within that group.
Skeeter, this will correct itself quickly when education is eventually off-shored, too. It’s becoming more and more of a possibility with “on-line” classes. Not only the “instructional” part, but the development of courseware and systems that support such a learning environment, too.
I’m not supporting or promoting that. As a matter of fact, I’d be very angry if my child had no choice but to “attend” a school controlled by another country–no matter how Red White & Blue it advertised itself as.
Perhaps the possibility of off-shoring education is “food for thought” for the “educational elite” and employers in this country who now require or desire–literally (I kid you not; look at some job postings)–
Bachelor’s or prferrably MBAs for “executive” administrative assistants who will make $35,000 a year.
It takes a huge student loan debt–dontcha know–nowadays to schedule an appointment and prepare a PowerPoint presentation.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 1:32 pm:
@Skeeter -
They can immediately fire ANY bad teacher now.
There’s a great deal of speculation that the reason they don’t fire lousy teachers now is because they ALREADY have a shortage of teachers, and a lousy teacher is better than no teacher.
I often wonder why we spend so much time talking about “bad teachers” and ignore the obvious shortcomings of principals.
If Toyota makes a few bad cars, you can blame the blokes on the assembly line. But when millions of vehicles have to be recalled, you have a management problem.
EVERY single principal in Chicago makes more than $100K a year.
What’s their excuse? They have the power to fire lousy teachers…why aren’t they using it?
Dog, who do you think you are debating?
How long does it take to fire a teacher?
It is an easy process? Expensive?
Come on, Dog. You can make better arguments that that argument.
And do you really believe your own argument about the quality of the teachers? Our kids are not the same age, but in some sense I hope you do feel that way. If you can convince others, then it means less competition for my kids to get into quality private schools.
Also, this is the second time in this thread that you’ve made an assumption. You seem to assume that I believe the administration is doing a good job. I don’t. Fire them too. Top to bottom. Get rid of everybody. They have failed.
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 12:54 pm:
Only 1 out of 8 Chicago Public School kids graduate from a 4-year college or university.
If we were paying for performance, the teachers would all get pay cuts, not raises (I know more goes into student performance than just the teachers, but cmon, no one else is getting raises around here)
- John A Logan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 12:55 pm:
Slavery? I will start the countdown till someone brings hitler into the conversation, 10, 9, 8, 7……
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:03 pm:
Lewis said:
“It would make no sense for this brand new board to shortchange the children who need a quality teacher in every classroom by voting down teachers’ raises.”
Parse that sentence for a minute. Join me in laughter.
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:04 pm:
Oh, come on! That was an American Dad reference.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:05 pm:
Wow, I guess me and a host of my fellow private sector worker pals have been slaves for years at various times….
I am guessing she wasn’t a history table.
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:05 pm:
I guess you have auto-correct on
- Mark Buerhle - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:12 pm:
The old “just eliminate the fraud and waste and you will find the money” argument. One of my favorites.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:13 pm:
–“I don’t believe in slavery on any level. I don’t believe we should work for free. Ever. And we’re not going to,” said Lewis.–
You could be 100% correct in your position, and you would still lose public support with statements like that.
- Slick Willy - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:18 pm:
Glad to see that Jesse Jackson is helping out. He always brings commons sense and reason to the table.
- Skeeter - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:19 pm:
Wow. Jesse Jackson found himself in front of a TV camera. That’s so rare for the man known as “The J.D. Salinger of the Protest World.”
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:32 pm:
It’s hardly slavery when 75% of the teachers will still be receiving raises. My district froze both raises and step increases last year. With the state income tax hike, we ended up making less after the New Year. I don’t quite feel I’m performing slave labor, though.
Ms Lewis needs to tone down the rhetoric and start speaking responsibly if she expects to be heard. The time for over-the-top tough talk has long since passed.
- heet101 - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:33 pm:
- “It would make no sense for this brand new board to shortchange the children who need a quality teacher in every classroom by voting down teachers’ raises”. -
Huh? How is denying a teacher’s raise ’shortchanging’ a student?
- I don't want to live in Teabagistan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:39 pm:
Of course, the best you can ever do is say the 2nd dumbest thing a teacher’s union leader has ever said. Because we will always have this: Albert Shanker, the late president of the American Federation of Teachers famously said: “When school children start paying union dues, that‘s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children.”
- Loop Lady - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:46 pm:
I think that the rest of the middle class needs to rise up and organize against corporate welfare…Ms. Lewis’ comment was over the top, but if folks don’t start advocating for their own interests, the politicians who supposedly represent them sure as hell won’t do it for them…
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:47 pm:
Shanker committed the classic Kinsley gaffe.
- What's in a name? - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:49 pm:
Unfortunately, the public views the teachers and the teachers’ union as one and the same. The teachers are often heros. The union is despicable. The union cloaks every issue in what’s good for the children. The only, and I mean only motivation for the union is what’s good for the union. Talk about being completely tone deaf.
- Downstate Illinois - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:52 pm:
I guess the state really needs its Amistad Commission in order to educate teachers about slavery.
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:53 pm:
Teachers are ill served by their union leadership. Teachers would be better off in an at-will, right-to-work environment with no tenure for anyone below college level. They would then be paid more in line with their abilities, which in a majority of cases is outstanding. The chaff would be eliminated, and the wheat would remain.
- Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:55 pm:
We are, afterall, commemorating the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War this year, so this seems entirely appropriate.
- bdogg - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 1:55 pm:
Amen, loop lady.
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:01 pm:
Ah, Michelle, a “teachable moment!”
;-{)>
- Way Way Down Here - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:13 pm:
Loop Lady, you should have said “what’s left” of the middle class. Just sayin’
- Flaming Liberal - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:27 pm:
Rich and all, I just read were the Wisconsin Supreme Court overturned the judges ruling to stop the anti-worker collective bargaining bill on a 4-3 vote. A real back breaker for public employees and the Democratic party. My understanding is the bill only allows for collective bargaining for wages, and even those are limited to an inflation variable, and eliminates automatic payment of union dues directly from the state. Our brothers and sisters fought and protested and still came up short. If this is a trend say good bye to the Democratic party.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:34 pm:
If the goal is to ensure our ability to attract and retain quality teachers in every classroom, someone please explain to me how cutting teachers pay helps achieve that goal.
The best teachers who can will leave for one of the 70 other school districts in Illinois that pay more. Where teachers are not scapegoated.
We will be left with more vacancies, less qualified teachers, and fewer qualified applicants.
Apparently, no one in the CPS administration took Economics 101.
- CTU Watch - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:35 pm:
Karen Lewis needs to see the writing on the wall - much like Rep. Anthony Weiner - and resign for such an outrageous and unjustified comment.
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:36 pm:
The Wisconsin State Supreme Court ruled 7 - 0 that Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi overstepped her bounds by declaring the recent collective bargaining bill void. The court also ruled 4 - 3 that the bill was now law.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:37 pm:
@Cincinattus -
Tell that to the principal who was fired by CPS for refusing to place 45 students in a classroom.
Without collective bargaining rights, what we would see is CPS purging our school system of the best teachers in order to balance the budget.
- Skeeter - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:40 pm:
Interesting comment from Yellow Dog.
What I learned in Econ was that you don’t pay more than the going rate. In Chicago, private school teachers make less than public school. That seems to set the market rate. CPS pays a premium.
That makes perfect sense if you are getting better results. A BMW costs more than a Ford, but the BMW has better brakes so some think that’s a pretty good deal.
How does CPS compare on quality though? Not good. CPS pays more, but gets less.
So the economics of the deal seem to be that CPS pays a lot for a bad product. From an economic perspective, that doesn’t seem like a good idea.
- Small Town Liberal - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:47 pm:
- The best teachers who can will leave for one of the 70 other school districts in Illinois that pay more. -
No, that only works for CEOs, not teachers. Don’t you watch Fox?
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:53 pm:
With what’s happening to teachers in other states, I don’t think this is the time to complain about slavery. Illinois still has collective bargaining rights and will attract good teachers from other states if they get their fiscal act together. Our unions are still important, they show this when they take the team player approach, rather than an adversarial one.
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 2:55 pm:
YDD,
Maybe we could give this a whirl?
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=1932&GAID=11&GA=97&DocTypeID=SB&LegID=58087&SessionID=84
- Phineas J. Whoopee - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 3:12 pm:
Although it’s over the top, the union boss is doing her job.
I’m no psychic, but I predict the teacher negotiations will get testy.
- lakeview - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 3:13 pm:
Oh, man. Lewis isn’t very smart, is she? Is she a CPS graduate?
There is support for raises for good teachers. I think everyone would agree that the entirety of CPS is not serving students well, and that structural changes are needed. But slavery?
Who is dumb enough to say that when so many taxpayers have had to take pay cuts or have been asked to put in longer hours in this recession?
CPS has been making so much progress over the years, and now this loon is going to set it all back. And who suffers? The most important people in the schools, the students, who are too young to vote.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 3:17 pm:
Don’t know about your school district but mine isn’t hiring.
- DC - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 3:24 pm:
Cincinnatus,
Take away unions and tenure and somehow teachers will magically make more money? I guess the term you used was “better off.” Where’s the money going to come from?
Too much Skyline Chili my friend.
- Cincinnatus - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:19 pm:
DC,
The good ones, yes. Do the bad ones deserve more?
- Small Town Liberal - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:23 pm:
- The good ones, yes. Do the bad ones deserve more? -
That doesn’t answer the question. You said:
“They would then be paid more in line with their abilities, which in a majority of cases is outstanding.”
How would that magically happen? Are the parents going to send extra money with their kids if they really like the teacher?
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:23 pm:
That’s right Ms. lewis, slap that slavery card down and watch how fast the powers that be cut more programs for the poor so that your raises on top of raises can be given. Jeeeez, wake up.
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:29 pm:
Oh and Cincinnatus, I agree with your thoughts on SB1932. Should be able to pass a bill like that very easily…..if the CTU didn’t fight it so vehemently!! Give parents a choice!
- Johnston - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:36 pm:
“The best teachers who can will leave for one of the 70 other school districts in Illinois that pay more”
This is a myth cut from the same cloth “raising the minimum wage causes unemployment” and “high taxes will chase businesses out of Illinois”
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:42 pm:
–Oh and Cincinnatus, I agree with your thoughts on SB1932. Should be able to pass a bill like that very easily…..if the CTU didn’t fight it so vehemently!! Give parents a choice!–
I don’t think the CTU kept all those downstate Republicans off Meek’s voucher bill that failed in the House last May.
For the record, it got 48 votes, 26 Republicans and 22 Democrats.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:47 pm:
@Skeeter -
First, the top private schools in Chicago — U of C Lab School, Francis Parker and Latin School — all pay more than CPS.
Secondly, the tuition requirements and admission requirements for private schools do a FINE job of ensuring that private schools can cream the best students.
Comparing apples and oranges won’t get you anywhere.
There are currently 250,000 laid off teachers in the US. IF Chicago teachers were overpaid, we would be FLOODED with applications from overqualified candidates.
Instead, our school district suffers from chronic shortages of math, science, reading, special education, and now even PE teachers.
Teaching in Chicago’s public schools is arguably the toughest teaching job in the state.
Yet Chicago teachers’ pay ranks 71st.
Just ask yourself, all other things being equal, would you rather teach at Francis Parker or CPS?
Now ask yourself how much MORE someone would have to pay you to leave Francis Parker to go teach on the Southside or Westside.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:53 pm:
Lewis’ rhetoric is overheated, but she’s still on point.
It is unrealistic to expect teachers to work 20% more hours for the same pay.
Its immoral to ask them to work more hours for free under the guise of “shared sacrifice” when you are giving the school superintendent a pay raise.
And, have no doubt that even with these cuts we will see a massive property tax hike to close the budget hole.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 4:58 pm:
=== Our unions are still important, they show this when they take the team player approach, rather than an adversarial one. ===
I’m sorry, but who picked this fight?
Teachers are being forced to give up a promised pay hike, and in return they were offered what exactly?
Make no mistake. This move was designed to provoke a fight with the unions, just like Brizzard’s hiring.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:05 pm:
===Make no mistake. This move was designed to provoke a fight with the unions, just like Brizzard’s hiring. ===
It’s been pretty much assumed for months that the CTU was gearing up for a strike. So, everybody went into defense mode, including the GA. That’s really why the ed reform bill passed. And it’s why Brizzard was hired. They weren’t trying to pick a fight, they’re trying to either head one off (strike language in bill) or fight back (Brizzard, etc.).
- downhereforyears - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:07 pm:
@wordslinger…..For the record the bill is still on 3rd reading in the Senate….never got called
4/15/2011 Senate Rule 2-10 Third Reading Deadline Established As May 4, 2011
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:14 pm:
@Rich -
STAND for Children IL PAC was formed two days after Daley announced his retirement, way back in September.
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:22 pm:
YDD
This is just the warm up to contract negotiations. Last year in my district we were threatened with furloughs and forced increases in insurance deductions, besides the pay freeze. Instead of making threats, we forced the administration to open up the budget and found where money could be saved elsewhere. Non-union staff suffered most of these cuts, but the teachers didn’t.
There will be a grievance filed against CPS. They will not be able to refuse increases in wages already guaranteed by their current contract with the teachers. There wasn’t any need for Lewis to spout off in such a negative fashion. She won’t get much public support with angry rhetoric.
- Allen Skillicorn - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 5:59 pm:
This stopped being about the children decades ago.
- fed up - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 6:38 pm:
YDD,
Chicago teachers work 174 days a year, Counting 2 half days and the last day of school 1 hour day as full days. Chicago public school teachers make more than the national Avg. in pay. For the last 20 years Daley has given the teachers 4% a year to avoid a strike all while ignoring the needs of the children. The teachers always hold the kids hostage knowing daley wouldnt risk a strike. Good luck finding another job working 6 hours a day for a total of less than 6 months with full pay and Insurance.
I think breaking a contract is wrong, this fight should of happened after the contract expired. Funny the Dems are in complete control in Chicago and Illinois yet the unions are still taking a beating, I guess all those campaign donations just rented the lawmakers not bought them.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 11:05 pm:
=I think that the rest of the middle class needs to rise up and organize against corporate welfare…=
Yeah…while you didn’t go into the details of how to do that, I’m going to assume that the approach envisioned is somewhat “reactionary” or “revolutionary”, which probably isn’t a real good idea because I’m going to guess the result could be more jobs going overseas–which some people might actually like along with the related “upheaval” here in the US.
We’ll think of something, but I don’t think it’ll be along the lines of the way it’s done in other countries, who have a tendency to run out into the streets at lunch time and start throwing rocks at police.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 11:08 pm:
And to support my statement that going out into the streets and throwing rocks at people probably isn’t a good idea: For some reason, I don’t see some “nice” corporation ANYWHERE in the world feeling sorry for those poor Americans to the point that they’d ship THEIR jobs back to us…as some “US” companies did with e.g., Northern Ireland.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 15, 11 @ 11:29 pm:
And just some “food for thought” and a question for those politicians who love pandering to ethnic groups here in the US so much: How many countries actually pander to your average “ugly American” living overseas–unless, of course, it’s to those who are in a position to ship more of our jobs to them?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 11:19 am:
@Fed Up -
Everyone agrees that if we want to have the best schools in the country, we have to attract and retain the best teachers in the country. If you think we can do that without offering salaries and benefits that not only compete with other school districts, but with private sector job opportunities, you are deluded.
The majority of Chicago public school teachers have Master’s degrees, more than 11 years professional experience in their field, and continuing education requirements. For an average salary of $65,000 a year.
The work 50-60 hours a week, not just teaching but preparing lesson plans and grading homework and tests.
If you have a bachelor’s degree in English and you were choosing between law school, going to work for a PR firm, or teaching in Chicago’s public schools, where would you go?
If you have a bachelor’s degree in Chemistry and you had a choice between going to medical school, working for Abbott labs, or teaching in Chicago’s public schools, where would you go?
If you had a bachelor’s degree in mathematics or computer science and had a choice between going to work for Google, Microsoft, or teaching in Chicago public schools, where would you go?
According to Education Week, Maryland has the best public school system in the country.
Not surprisingly, Maryland teachers are the fourth highest paid in the country, earning $10,000 a year more than the national average.
And while Illinois is moving to strip teachers of the benefits of tenure, Maryland just lowered its tenure requirement from four years to three.
- Skeeter - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 11:25 am:
Yellow Dog, those teachers are better paid than teachers in all but four private schools and they produce lousy results. Only in Chicago do we pay a premium to get a bad product.
If workers in any other profession did as bad, they would all be replaced. Given what they’ve accomplished, they should be lucky that they have jobs at all.
Let them all quit. Fine. Bring in people who can teach.
- Skeeter - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 11:29 am:
$65,000 per year and the summer off? And no requirement that you actually have to produce results? Where do I sign up? That’s a gift.
And I’m tired of hearing about this “Master’s Degree” stuff. How many of those are from real schools? A Master’s from Chicago State? The real Skeeter, a large German Shepherd Dog, can probably qualify for one from that place. Having a Master’s Degree does not tell me anything. Tell me where it is from. And tell me how the students in the teacher’s class did. Then tell me how much money you want.
- Skeeter - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 11:32 am:
I have to say that this whole discussion is one of the few on this site that makes me really angry. These teachers have failed and the result is that I need to pay both taxes to support these miserable teachers AND must pay about $20,000 for each of my children so that they can get a quality education.
And now these teachers that have failed so badly that I can’t send my kids to CPS want more of my money? No way. I’m tired of CPS caving. Let them go on strike. Hire scabs. No way the scabs can be any worse.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 12:49 pm:
=== Let them all quit. Fine. Bring in people who can teach. ===
LOL. In case you hadn’t heard, CPS isn’t swamped with applications. You think they are going to increase with a pay freeze?
CHRONIC shortages of teachers for English, Math, Science, Learning Disabilities, and even PE now.
Its because Chicago’s the toughest teaching job in the state and 71st in pay.
And PUH-LEEZ stop making the ridiculous comparison between CPS and private schools.
Private schools exclude children with learning disabilities. Private schools have admissions tests that screen out below average students. Private schools have tuition requirements that screen out at-risk students.
Chicago public elementary schools have a teacher-to-pupil ratio of 20-1.
At Francis Parker, 9-1. Latin School, 8-to-1. Catholic Schools, its around 13-1.
I share your frustration, Skeeter.
State funding for CPS has fallen from the 50% required by the Constitution to about 25%.
The school district is faced with making up that shortfall through either cutting expenses or raising taxes or both.
But EVERY study says that a world class education system is the core of our economic future.
That’s a good reason to look at things like TIF reform and say “Hey, if we want to bring jobs to Chicago, we’d be better off spending this money improving student performance than building flower boxes.”
Chicago can not be a world class city if it offers a third world public education system.
- Skeeter - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 12:57 pm:
Interesting. Are you now admitting that CPS teachers are bottom of the barrel? Nobody wants to work there, you say, and we all know that results are terrible.
Your solution is to give them a raise?
How about this: Fire them all and then make them re-appply for the jobs. The teachers that in the past have produced get to keep their jobs and 4% more. The teachers that have failed get to find their next calling.
And you bring up Latin and Parker. Those are two of four where teachers make more than at CPS. But in hundreds of other private schools, the teachers make less and yet results are still superior.
Toughest job in the state? Let’s contemplate that one a while.
$65,000 per year.
Summer off.
Slack off? No big deal. Get paid anyway.
Produce lousy results? Fine. Here’s your paycheck.
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
We do agree that a world class education is necessary. But we disagree that throwing gobs of money at the problem will solve the problem.
Until we impose real standards on teachers and force them to produce or lose the job (just like everybody else in every other job) all that money might as well be flushed.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 12:58 pm:
@Skeeter -
I’m guessing that most of the Master’s degrees come from National Lewis University, which is where most teachers from the region — including the suburbs — earn their degrees.
There are no winners in a strike, only losers. You, Mayor Emanuel and the Chicago Tribune should stop pushing for one.
Frankly, I don’t think what the CTU is asking for is either unreasonable or surprising. Most people expect to be paid more if they are forced to work more hours.
How much more should be the subject of negotiations, but for you, the Tribune, and CPS to take the flat-out position that we won’t even talk about more money is absurd.
If you, Mayor Emanuel and the Tribune think that we need to do a better job of attracting and retaining better qualified teachers, propose a solution.
But stop with the ridiculous idea that cutting teacher pay is going to mean MORE qualified applicants. It doesn’t even pass the smell test.
- Skeeter - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 1:03 pm:
Fine. As I noted, I would support 4% if we could immediately fire them all and then have them re-apply. Heck, give them even more than 4% if it means getting wood of the rotten ones.
That’s your goal, right YDD? To recruit good teachers? And that means we get rid of the lousy ones right?
You would support that I assume. After all, you want good public schools. You are not just shilling for the union, right?
Seems my solution works for everybody. Talented teachers gets jobs and better pay and the rest go find work at Dominicks, which is pretty much what the NLU Masters qualifies them to do.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 1:20 pm:
=== But in hundreds of other private schools, the teachers make less and yet results are still superior. ===
Skeeter -
Chicago Magazine lists the Top 25 private schools in Chicago. 23 of the 25 have a lower teacher-to-pupil ratio than CPS elementary schools.
Some as low as 5-to-1.
And superior results? Based on what? Standardized test scores? Private elementary schools don’t take them.
Look at Chicago Magazine’s comparison of private schools and you’ll notice right away that those with the best pay, best teacher-to-pupil ratio, highest tuition, and most-restrictive enrollment policies are the highest performing within that group.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 1:26 pm:
Skeeter, this will correct itself quickly when education is eventually off-shored, too. It’s becoming more and more of a possibility with “on-line” classes. Not only the “instructional” part, but the development of courseware and systems that support such a learning environment, too.
I’m not supporting or promoting that. As a matter of fact, I’d be very angry if my child had no choice but to “attend” a school controlled by another country–no matter how Red White & Blue it advertised itself as.
Perhaps the possibility of off-shoring education is “food for thought” for the “educational elite” and employers in this country who now require or desire–literally (I kid you not; look at some job postings)–
Bachelor’s or prferrably MBAs for “executive” administrative assistants who will make $35,000 a year.
It takes a huge student loan debt–dontcha know–nowadays to schedule an appointment and prepare a PowerPoint presentation.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 1:32 pm:
@Skeeter -
They can immediately fire ANY bad teacher now.
There’s a great deal of speculation that the reason they don’t fire lousy teachers now is because they ALREADY have a shortage of teachers, and a lousy teacher is better than no teacher.
I often wonder why we spend so much time talking about “bad teachers” and ignore the obvious shortcomings of principals.
If Toyota makes a few bad cars, you can blame the blokes on the assembly line. But when millions of vehicles have to be recalled, you have a management problem.
EVERY single principal in Chicago makes more than $100K a year.
What’s their excuse? They have the power to fire lousy teachers…why aren’t they using it?
- Skeeter - Thursday, Jun 16, 11 @ 4:13 pm:
“They can immediately fire ANY bad teacher now.”
Dog, who do you think you are debating?
How long does it take to fire a teacher?
It is an easy process? Expensive?
Come on, Dog. You can make better arguments that that argument.
And do you really believe your own argument about the quality of the teachers? Our kids are not the same age, but in some sense I hope you do feel that way. If you can convince others, then it means less competition for my kids to get into quality private schools.
Also, this is the second time in this thread that you’ve made an assumption. You seem to assume that I believe the administration is doing a good job. I don’t. Fire them too. Top to bottom. Get rid of everybody. They have failed.