38 Comments - RMWStanford - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 9:40 am: Good to know that thanks to the slow pace of Illinois government some one else will have a bigger better facility before this one is even up. Is it any wonder we have problems being competitive. - anonymice - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 9:47 am: Will the new facility in Beloit also offer sanctuary to Wisconsin legislators hiding from quorum calls? If not, Rockford will still have a competitive advantage. - wordslinger - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 9:48 am: Casinos aside, I’m surprised that there aren’t more indoor waters parks in Chicago metro. The Wisconsin Dells makes a fortune on their parks during the winter, drawing more tourists than they do in the summer. - gournalizm - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 9:54 am: Calling out the Gov by name but not Terry Link. Not very classy. - gournalizm - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 9:54 am: Also, not Lou Lang? - lincoln's beard - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 9:54 am: Bah. This is not a field Illinois should be competitive in. Education, yes. High-tech jobs, yes. Support for entrepreneurs, yes. Affordable health-care, yes. Quality of life, historical preservation, cultural wealth, environmental conservation, yes, yes, yes, yes. Casinos? Blaring neon lights, parking lots, all-night buffets? Senior citizens with glazed eyes feeding quarter after quarter of their fixed incomes into slot machines? Low-wage, low-skill jobs dealing cards, mixing drinks, and bilking people with poor impulse control out of what little savings they might have? None of that sounds like something Illinois should be competitive in. - Sir Reel - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:07 am: In Illinois, we have the Ho-Hum tribe. - downstate commissioner - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:13 am: @ lincoln’s beard- Agree with everything you said… But you can’t save everyone from going to hell, so drugs, alcohol, nicotine, prostitution, and gambling are going to happen somewhere. Legalize them and tax them, which is the situation with casinos, so Illinois loses tax money and jobs (a low-paying job is better than NO job). Let gambling pay for those desirable items in your first paragraph… - Been There - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:16 am: ===Casinos aside, I’m surprised that there aren’t more indoor waters parks in Chicago metro. The Wisconsin Dells makes a fortune on their parks during the winter, drawing more tourists than they do in the summer.=== Ironically the hotel with a water park just down the street from Arlington Park race track just closed a year or two ago. Maybe it will open back up if they get slots machines. And I don’t think we need another water park. Mainly because I don’t want to listen to more obnoxious commercials like the Key Lime Cove place. - Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:17 am: Whatever, gournalizm. Think what you want to think. - Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:21 am: To expand, the sponsors at least tried to get something done last year. The governor sat on the sidelines and tossed eggs after it was all over. Now, he says he wants to do something. Whatever. - RMWStanford - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:22 am: I agree with downstate, most of those activities are going to happen one way or another. Better to have them legalized where they can be taxed and the market can function normally. With gambling the majority of patrons, can and do gamble responsibly as a recreational pastime and are not addicts wasting their life savings. - gournalizm - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:37 am: And Lou Lang doesn’t deserve any blame for essentially blowing a veto session vote with rampaging floor speeches? Give me a break. The Governor was at the table, put out a framework, and wanted to behave responsibly rather than flood the market with over a dozen new casinos. I guess the “Do it the right way or don’t do it at all” crowd are the bad guys here. Sorry. - Just Me - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:40 am: I agree with you, Rich. Agree 110%. - Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:46 am: ===I guess the “Do it the right way or don’t do it at all” crowd are the bad guys here.=== Actually, last spring the governor was the “don’t do anything at all on this issue” person. Seriously, you have a warped sense of what happened last year. The guy you work for shut himself out of everything, either by deliberately sitting on the sidelines or by proposing a budget so ridiculous that members decided they couldn’t work with him. - I Love Springfield - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 10:46 am: lincoln’s beard: a very well-written description. RMWStanford: not even close. I visited a downstate casino on a Saturday night in November, after attending a nearby charity dinner, to see what it was like, since I had not been in an Illinois casino in a very long time. (And yes, I know how to play blackjack well enough, if I care to play!) All I can say is, man, what a depressing scene. In my very humble opinion, 95-percent+ of the crowd had no business gambling even a little. As I exited, I saw a sad retired couple sitting on a bench and overheard the old man telling his wife what a “loser” he was (his words). Anecdotal yes, but, ugh! I know gambling can be argued from ten different directions, but “responsible gambling” is casino industry jargon, not reality. - Shock & Awww(e) - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:00 am: Gaming expansion feels like it’s been on the table and in the media since I was in the womb. That’s likely standard for all of us here. Regardless of your age, it feels as if this debate has been running since you were roughly 5 months old. The issue just goes on & on & on & on & on… It drives me to conclude one of these simplistic, childlike facts must be true at this point: 1.) IL legislators are trying to force something IL voters don’t largely support 2.) Leadership to get this done is ineffective or lacking 3.) Leadership to kill this is ineffective or lacking 4.) Neither legislative supporters nor opponents are willing (or perhaps don’t know how) to compromise and get a deal done Not clear which one of those is most correct, or whether a #5 conclusion (any nominees?) exists which is more accurate. Nonetheless, this is fast becoming an IL grown-up version of “The Neverending Story”. - walkinfool - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:01 am: Floor speeches had nothing to do with gaining or losing votes in this case. Lang was in a marginally losing position prior to the floor vote, Link and he having traded away too many locations, to a minority of legislators, for their votes. He tried to push it over with some drama, but the hill was just too steep for any tactic at that point. The governor’s position was responsible, IMHO, but not specific or strong enough, early enough in the process, to prevent soup becoming stew. Sometimes it takes a strong, sharp executive hand to intervene directly into the legislative process, to get the best outcome. - PQ's Primary Opponent - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:09 am: Gaming expansion is DOA: why? because the Speaker has recused himself from the issue, and with him gone Illinois is left with bumbling incompetents to try to put a bill together. - OneMan - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:13 am: I think this at some level is Jaffe’s goal. I seriously think the man does not like gaming very much and would be very happy to see it either stay the same in this state or go away. So if there is one less viable location for a casino, fine. As for the why there are not more waterparks in Chicagoland… We have a few outdoor ones but the advantage is density in the Dell’s there are a bunch right near each other. At one point that is what they talked about doing with the large Motorola facility in Harvard. - Anon1115 - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:16 am: Rich is right. So is OneMan: Jaffe threw more bombs than anyone. - PQ's Primary Opponent - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:20 am: Jaffe is a “tool” of the Pritzker’s who own the Elgin boat, and they don’t want anymore competition. - Rod - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:21 am: The Ho-Chunk Nation casinos are one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated on native peoples and have at the same time provided more money for tribal development than would have been the case without gaming. The Ho-Chunk Nation is headquartered in Black River Falls, Wisconsin. Formerly known as the Wisconsin Winnebago Tribe, they changed their name to the Ho-Chunk Nation. There were 7,192 tribe members as of May 23, 2011; 5,042 lived in Wisconsin, and 2,150 lived somewhere else. The tribe owns 4,602 acres scattered across parts of 12 counties in Wisconsin and one county in Minnesota. The largest concentrations are in Jackson County, Clark County, and Monroe County in Wisconsin. My extended family owns a home in Clark County and we are very familiar with the tribe. What is now called the Ho-Chunk Nation was explicitly created by an alliance of tribal leaders with the gaming industry in only 1994 when a new constitution was adopted by the Winnebago people living in Wisconsin by a vote of 356 for and 122 against out of 880 eligible tribal voters. This was done in light of federal legislation known as the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988, 25 U.S.C. sec. 2701. The members of the tribe as defined in 1994 receive payments based mostly on the profits of gaming. The Ho-Chunk Nation has contracts with numerous firms in the gaming industry, including Gaming Systems International (GSI), PokerTek, Inc., for gaming lobbying with the firm Whyte Hirschboeck Dudek SC and many other contracts. In June of 2011, A federal grand jury indicted Timothy Whiteagle, Deborah Atherton and Clarence Pettibone all tribal members of Ho-Chunk Nation, which operates casinos in Wisconsin. The indictment alleges from 2002 to 2009, Whiteagle at times with help from Atherton acted covertly as a behind-the-scenes consultant for clients seeking to do business with Ho-Chunk Nation. Those clients included companies that provided cash-access services, such as check cashing and ATMs, at Ho-Chunk casinos, and a company that sought to provide mortgages and housing for tribal members. Whiteagle allegedly received over $3 million from those clients. So given the corruption in the Native American gaming industry and the concerns that have been correctly raised about the legislation that would have expanded gaming in Illinois I do not understand the “Hooray, it looks like we lost again” comment from Rich. It is better to go slow. - Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:32 am: ===Jaffe is a “tool” of the Pritzker’s=== Unless you have some evidence, that’s way outta line here. Put up or go away. And if you’re basing this on religion, you’re disgusting. - Bigtwich - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:39 am: Not sure non action in Springfield was of any long term effect. The Ho-Chunk Nation may be applying for a federal gaming license bigger than anything in Illinois? Doubt a State licensed operation so close would have survived. - RMWStanford - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 11:55 am: I love springfield, Statistically the rate of gambling addiction is very low. Seeing as the majority of gamblers are not addicted, I suspect the cases of old folks or the poor drunk gambling away his family merger earnings/savings is a relatively low. Of course there are ones that do and are addict and they are the ones that tend to be the most noticeable. The ones that are recreational gamblers an do so reasonably are the ones that are not at as noticeable. - Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 12:03 pm: ===In my very humble opinion, 95-percent+ of the crowd had no business gambling even a little=== That’s your opinion. Theirs is obviously different. So, who’s to say that your lone opinion trumps their collective opinion? - I Love Springfield - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 12:15 pm: Did you notice my words “anecdotal” and “very”? My observations of a sad casino scene do not jibe with casino industry fables. - The Captain - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 12:15 pm: Was A. Jaffe not quoted in these articles? Was yesterday the one day he didn’t have a press conference? - OneMan - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 12:33 pm: == Did you notice my words “anecdotal” and “very”? My observations of a sad casino scene do not jibe with casino industry fables. == Well using your same ‘conditions’ as it were, I can say that 95% of the folks on my Metra train did not look like they wanted to go to work this morning. So therefore we don’t really need anyone else working. A lot of BS can be believed using “anecdotal” observations, like my neighbor who believed the Space Shuttle landing made it rain 24 hours later in Chicago since he had noticed it a couple of times… Then again, it is easy for anyone to judge others. - Michelle Flaherty - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 12:52 pm: Is Roland Burris still lobbying for the Ho-Chunks? I bet he’d be able to fasttrack that federal gaming license. - anon - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 12:55 pm: Maybe Illinois could develop a cheese industry in Rockford? - OneMan - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 1:34 pm: == RMW:Recreational gambler? Is that like a recreational drug user on the weekends? Therein lies a potential slippery slope == So then lets follow this along… RMW:Recreational drinker? Is that like a drinker on the weekends? And even to your point, hate to break it to you but there are tons of folks who smoke the occasional fatty, who in fact are not dope fiends. - wishbone - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 2:00 pm: Personally I find casinos boring, but why should my feelings have any impact on how others want to spend their time (or money). The state’s ability to dole out these mini-monopolies is just a breeding ground for corruption. Let the market decide how many casinos are out there, and let the state collect the taxes due it. Oh, but that would be too easy. - Nohopeforillinois - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 3:09 pm: In Wisconsin casinos, when you hit a big jackpot the state requires you to file a Wisconsin income tax return AND pay income tax on the gross amount of the jackpot, even if you lost money overall! This is outrageous and probably not legal, but Wisconsin does it anyway (your income is gross receipts minus losses, yet they tax as income the gross receipts). This should keep any thinking Illinois resident away from those Wisconsin Indian casinos! - wordslinger - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 3:12 pm: –This should keep any thinking Illinois resident away from those Wisconsin Indian casinos!– Aren’t you, technically, on tribal lands? Wisconsin still gets a taste? - Rod - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 3:43 pm: Under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988, 25 U.S.C. sec. 2701 the State of Wisconsin and the Ho-Chunk Nation signed a formal agreement. If you want to actually read the agreement go to http://www.doa.state.wi.us/section_detail.asp?linkcatid=694&linkid=117&locid=7 - Anonymous - Friday, Jan 6, 12 @ 4:17 pm: “Frankly, I think people would much rather come to Rockford with the Rock River than go to Beloit… They’ve got a great mayor, lots of recreation, and who would want to go north of the border?” Uhhhh….All the people who want to avoid being a crime statistic? http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/il/crime/ Crime index: 4 (100 safest) Beloit: 20 minutes away from Rockford. Just askin’ Mr. Quinn. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.