* An interesting proposal…
Rep. Will Davis, a Homewood Democrat and leader of the Illinois Legislative Black Caucus, said Phelps has a good opportunity to negotiate legislation with common-sense restrictions.
Many caucus members traditionally favor gun control, but Davis is willing to talk about a deal: He’ll offer Chicago-area support for concealed-carry in exchange for downstate agreement on a process to clear some criminal records, an issue that black lawmakers have pushed because youthful convictions often keep law-abiding adult constituents from getting jobs.
But [Rep. Frank Mautino] agreed with Phelps that given the court ruling, gun advocates no longer need to bother with deal-making.
Rep. Davis had earlier proposed putting Black Caucus votes on concealed carry if Cook County was exempted from the bill That idea was flat-out rejected.
* The mental health issue is important because there are some huge holes in tracking people with mental issues. We’ll have to see if that problem can be worked out…
At the same time, Mautino wants a measure that ensures people carrying weapons are trained and do not have mental health problems.
And such restrictions, according to Rep. Al Riley, are what lawmakers should take from the Connecticut tragedy.
“What’s clear is that any bill that we have, have some safeguards along the lines of mental health … and training,” said the Olympia Fields Democrat, who voted against Phelps’ last concealed-carry bill. “At minimum, if someone is going to carry a deadly weapon, loaded, on their person, no matter what comes up, you would think that they should have the bare minimum of training to be able to use the weapons that they propose to carry.”
LIVE session coverage...
- just sayin' - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:06 am:
yes just have very tough permit requirements and checks. we’ll be fine.
- Give Me A Break - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:08 am:
Keep in mind, the individual in Connecticut is said to have been treated for Augsburg Syndrome, a form of Autism. This is not a mental illness but developmental disability. The media for some reason can’t understand that at least in the case of Augsburg, this is not a mental health issue. Any legislation crafted that only impacts the MH Code, would not address this issue.
I’m not sure why the media can’t seem to get this correct, but to continue talk about this person’s mental illness is like saying someone has cancer when they really have blood pressure.
- Tracy - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:13 am:
” He’ll offer Chicago-area support for concealed-carry in exchange for”
Is this just empty posturing?
Doesn’t last week’s court ruling mean concealed carry is non-negotiable?
(Don’t kill the messenger, I’m just asking)
- amalia - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:13 am:
“youthful convictions.” the details of what can be wiped out are very important. victims of crime feel the physical pain no less if they are wounded in some way by a youth.
- Susiejones - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:14 am:
my husband and I are hunters and own guns. we think there definitely needs to be some restrictions on who can and can’t own guns, buy ammunition, or carry concealed or not. the arrogance shown by the ISRA is amazing given what has happened in the past few days. we dropped our membership years ago because they will not admit that there is no reason for an individual to own an assault type weapon. sadly our government at state and federal levels is broken and I am beyond hoping it will be fixed in my lifetime.
- Sgtstu - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:18 am:
(Rep. Will Davis, a Homewood Democrat and leader of the Illinois Legislative Black Caucus) Too little too late. Rep. Davis you lost !!!
- cassandra - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:20 am:
I think it’s Asperger’s but I was about to make the same point as Give Me A Break above.
I’d also like to see more statistics on the relationship between mental illness and violence, especially mass violence. I suspect there is a much more significant relationship between substance abuse–drugs and alcohol–with or without mental illness–and everyday gun violence, the far more common kind. So should we consider restricting gun ownership for those with a substance abuse history?
- Former Downstater - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:22 am:
I don’t get the argument that the 2nd Amendment guarantees access to all guns by all people all the time. We have laws in place that restrict access to things and protect public safety. Reasonable gun safety restrictions, including types of guns and ammunition and non-access by some individuals, should be completely legal.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:28 am:
–At the same time, Mautino wants a measure that ensures people carrying weapons are trained and do not have mental health problems.–
Are you talking gun shows and online sales here? How about something to ensure that “lost or stolen” guns are reported immediately?
- RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:36 am:
If people are serious about crafting “reasonable” requirements, the support of the Black Caucus cold help.
But like amalia, I would want to know the details of which convictions could be wiped out; anything violent should probably be off the table but non-violent offenses could be items for discussion.
- elginkevin - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:37 am:
When I took my class for the Utah permit, I was surprised that I didn’t have to pick up a firearm and demonstrate that I could use it safely in order to qualify for the permit. The class is mostly about the legal, moral and ethical aspects of CCW which is good, but not enough.
Hopefully in Illinois we will require significant (meaning more than one session on more than one day) training in order to allow citizens to carry. The requirements should be no less onerous than what it takes to get a driver’s license, and probably more so.
- Endangered Moderate Species - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 9:47 am:
Regardless of how you feel about the deal with the Black Caucus and the Concealed Carry Caucus, Davis does have a legitimate concern regarding the hindrance of employment for former convicts. When these folks can’t get hired for legitimate jobs they are forced to play by the rules of survival, which usually requires an illegal activity.
- Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 10:16 am:
I’m totally opposed to wiping out criminal records. It’s nothing but rewriting history and literally covering up crime. If necessary the governor can pardon them after the fact if they need to clear their record for a particular job. I have no problem with that because that’s out in the open.
Employers have the right to choose their employees. If they want to not hire former convicts that is their right.
- Fed up - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 10:21 am:
Employers do have a legitimate reason for not hiring people with criminal backgrounds. Often you are legally liable for the misconduct of your employees. If your employee rapes some one while installing cable TV you will have a huge payout. No employer wants some one who steals. Second chances are vital but employers should be aware of who they are giving that chance to. I’m sure their are some minor law violations that don’t matter in the long run but I doubt we could all agree on what’s a minor crime.
- John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 10:29 am:
@suziejones:
If it weren’t for the ISRA and the NRA, your guns would have been gone a long time ago.
- Dozer - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 10:52 am:
==I don’t get the argument that the 2nd Amendment guarantees access to all guns by all people all the time. We have laws in place that restrict access to things and protect public safety. Reasonable gun safety restrictions, including types of guns and ammunition and non-access by some individuals, should be completely legal.==
No one is talking about ALL guns for ALL people. machineguns are illigal in Illinois and highly regulated across the country. as are sawed off shotguns. Certain types of ammunition are illegal in Illinois as well.
Let us review Illinois law:
you must have a FOID card to own, posses, buy a gun or ammunition. You can’t be a felon, have been a patient in the mental hospital or been adjudicated, been convicted of any crime of demstic violence or have afelony juvi record just to name a few of the restrictions.
We are not Arizona. We are one of 3 states that has something like a FOID.
We have a waiting period on ALL firearm sales, even between private parties.
Your FOID card gets called into the state police when you buy a gun at the gun store, and at any gun show.
individuals selling guns have to keep a record of the sale for 10 years.
it takes at 30 days to get your FOID card, so on top of the waiting periods, we have a built in first time 30 day wait, and renewals or first time applicants right now are running closer to 45-55 days.
So who here is talking about ALL guns for ALL people. I have yet to see even NRA or ISRA propose allowing machineguns
- Evil t - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 11:26 am:
A training requirement for the Florida cc is a training class with range time. The NRA pistol class covers that. Got my class scheduled for January!
- Small Town Liberal - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 11:29 am:
- If it weren’t for the ISRA and the NRA, your guns would have been gone a long time ago. -
Laughable. I’ll give them one thing though, the various RAs have done a great job stoking enough paranoia to assure themselves support for years to come.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 11:31 am:
===When I took my class for the Utah permit, I was surprised that I didn’t have to pick up a firearm and demonstrate that I could use it safely in order to qualify for the permit. The class is mostly about the legal, moral and ethical aspects of CCW which is good, but not enough.
Missouri requires reasonable proficiency with the firearm to get a permit. Since you are already doing a class, it’s pretty streamlined from the friends I’ve had go through it.
- walkinfool - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 11:54 am:
“your guns would have been gone”
Truly laughable nonsense. It’s frightening, or sad, that anyone actually believes this tripe put out by the NRA. It’s just a fundraising tactic, invented in the last half of the 20th Century.
- Ahoy! - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 12:08 pm:
–But [Rep. Frank Mautino] agreed with Phelps that given the court ruling, gun advocates no longer need to bother with deal-making.—
Maybe, but the Courts can always extend the time limit, I’m not sure the courts will appreciate having their opinion used in such a way by the gun advocates to ensure nothing gets done through the legislative process. I’m guessing we haven’t heard the last from the courts and the AG is probably preparing a plan B incase the legislature fairs to pass legislation.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 1:40 pm:
In all the debates about yes/no guns recently, I have yet to see an explanation for how Chicago has had a gun ban for decades but one of the highest incidence rates of gun violence? Doesn’t that prove conclusively that gun bans fail? What am I missing here?
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 1:49 pm:
Anonymous, correlation does not always equal causation. If things were just as black and white as your comment the world would be a simpler place, sadly, issues are more complicated than an anonymous post on a blog.
- Ahoy! - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 1:50 pm:
the Anonymous post at 1:49 was me.
- Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 3:04 pm:
@Cassandra Check out this post from Journalist’s Resource
http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/mass-murder-shooting-sprees-and-rampage-violence-research-roundup
- D.P. Gumby - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 3:32 pm:
If the gunners think the court case was a magic bullet and they need nothing else and they can just run out the clock and get everything they want based upon Posner’s opinion, they had best think again and consult w/ their lawyers to get the real story. They may have gained some leverage, but they are still best to cut whatever deal they can get–they need to learn that compromise and settlement is always the best course.
- Dozer - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 3:42 pm:
why doesn’t someone go look at the bills introduced. it appears that they have a list of restrictions on places you can’t go and a list of people who won’t be eligible for permits.
- Estubborn - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 4:24 pm:
Rep. Davis is right on the money with pushing for legislation to help clear criminal records for people who would meet a reasonable criteria. Second chances in life can change people’s lives for the better.
- Rod - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 4:29 pm:
Overall this small overture made by the black caucus is a good sign. It may mean that a bill that will not get struck down may pass the GA and be signed by the governor. Mayor Emanuel has become simply impossible to listen to on this issue and he is starting to sound more and more like Father Pfleger. Concealed-carry will happen within Chicago and there will be training requirements along with limits on where these weapons can be carried.
The Article 2 Gun Range in Lombard already has several training programs for Chicago’s existing hand gun law which probably would be enough to meet a concealed carry training program. Since our Mayor is interested in jobs he might want to consider allowing several gun ranges with training programs to open in the city or these jobs will all stay in the suburbs.
- reformer - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 4:50 pm:
It’s too bad that Rep. Davis wasn’t willing to compromise before the federal appellate court handed victory to Rep. Phelps. At this point, why does Phelps need to make concessions? If there is no bill, then we have unrestricted concealed carry in six months.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 6:20 pm:
The supporters of ISRA here are overplaying their hand.
Yes, they have an Ace in the Hole in the Appellate decision. Well, not really an Ace in the Hole, since everyone knows that card is there.
Just how many suburban Republicans will be left after 2014 if they all vote to kill common sense legislation, by default allowing anyone to walk into a school with a concealed weapon? I imagine even some downstaters will have a hard time defending that vote.
Dillard? Brady? good luck running statewide with that Albatross.
ISRA is not in the driver’s seat: voters ALWAYS have the last word.
- amalia - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 6:26 pm:
the more I think about this proposed legislative trade, the more angry I get. wiping out juvenile records might not give law enforcement information they need to solve a crime, or prevent one. if the ISRA is into this kind of trading, it’s wiping out records of a whole new order, even worse than the ISRA/NRA frequently do…..they don’t like records on guns shared or even kept. this does not help public safety.
- Confused - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 6:31 pm:
“Just how many suburban Republicans will be left after 2014 if they all vote to kill common sense legislation, by default allowing anyone to walk into a school with a concealed weapon? I imagine even some downstaters will have a hard time defending that vote.”
Your problem isn’t with the 3 suburban Republicans left in the ILGA, it is with downstate democrats. Besides, the only Republicans left in the ILGA are those with huge district advantages.
- Statehouse observer - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 10:15 pm:
Great comment YDD
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 18, 12 @ 11:32 pm:
–Serious question Rich, in the interest of fairness what is the position of the Illinois Legislative White Caucus? If there is not one I take offense and feel racially slighted since there is a Illinois Legislative Black Caucus.–
Get elected and form one, if it’s such a serious concern to you.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Dec 19, 12 @ 12:32 am:
Um, Confused, not sure about you, but I count the Collar County Republicans as “suburban”.
How’d that NRA endorsement work out for Sandy Cole? Sid Mathias? Joe Walsh? Judy Biggert? Jason Plummer? Bobby Schilling?
If you think the incumbent Republicans are safe just because they are in “safe” Republican districts, think again. We’ve got primaries.