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GOP chairman backs gay marriage

Wednesday, Jan 2, 2013

* I told subscribers about this earlier today

llinois Republican Party Chairman Pat Brady of St. Charles is calling GOP lawmakers asking them to support a proposal to legalize same-sex marriage, he said today.

Brady said he was making the calls as a citizen, outside of his official role with the Illinois Republican Party.

“I think it’s time for people to support this,” Brady said.

* Illinois Review also followed up, also without attribution

When asked, Brady told Illinois Review that he believes it is an “equality issue”, and that the “true conservative position is in favor” of allowing gay marriage. […]

The bill presents a problem for Illinois Republicans in that voting in favor would not only be unpopular with the Party’s base, but would seem to be in contradiction to it’s platform, which states:

    …The ideal environment for children is within a two‐parent family based on the principle of marriage between one man and one woman. The Republican Party endorses a constitutional amendment protecting our Defense of Marriage Act and enshrining in constitutional law marriage as it is defined in “DOMA.”

    Our laws should strongly support and celebrate the loving commitment a man and a woman make to each other in marriage. …No law should undermine the importance of that union, divide that union nor unduly burden the efforts of parents to rear a family in a safe and nurturing environment.

Thoughts?

* Related…

* African-American Leaders Add Support to Bill on Same-Sex Marriage

* ‘Modern Family’ actor in Springfield Thursday to push for gay marriage

- Posted by Rich Miller        


64 Comments
  1. - Just Observing - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:22 pm:

    Perhaps that may be Brady’s bonafide position, but it also may be a way to help soften the image of the state’s GOP as it relates to social issues.


  2. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:23 pm:

    Train’s leaving. Get on or get run over.

    Points to Brady for realizing what century he’s living in, and asking GOP lawmakers to join him there.


  3. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:24 pm:

    No vote for Brady, ever !!


  4. - MrJM - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:33 pm:

    Maybe some fiend reminded Brady about that Party of Lincoln thing…

    – MrJM


  5. - reformer - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:36 pm:

    Apparently the GOP chairman has a problem with his party’s platform. If he feels perfectly free to disregard parts of the platform when he finds it convenient, then why shouldn’t every GOP legislator follow their leader’s example?


  6. - Peggy So-IL - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:37 pm:

    Not all the GOP quislings are in DC, I see.


  7. - CircularFiringSquad - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:40 pm:

    Ahah
    From the WingNuts at IL Review:
    “- Representative elect David McSweeney (R-Barrington Hills) was appointed to the Illinois House of Representatives today to serve the remainder of the term of retiring State Rep. Kent Gaffney (R-Wauconda).”
    Apparently Brady engineered this move to deliver McSweeney for Marriage Equality
    Very shrewd move


  8. - OneMan - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:41 pm:

    Might as well get out of the way of the train…

    Also will give some of his critics fits, so that will be entertaining…


  9. - Roamin' Numeral - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:46 pm:

    Why do conservative Republicans get so upset every time a GOP candidate, office holder, or party official strays from the “party platform”? Repubs are not robots. They are entitled to their own opinions, even if those opinions stray from the party platform.

    You rarely, if ever, hear liberal Democrats complain when a conservative Democrat strays from the Dems’ platform.


  10. - Chevy owner/Ford County - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:48 pm:

    And in other news, pork farmers all over central Illinois report their pigs have taken flight….


  11. - CircularFiringSquad - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:48 pm:

    BTW Gafney’s departure represents the second free vote that Billboard’s let get away. Appears to us that it is another signal the session may not get a lot done.


  12. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:52 pm:

    –If he feels perfectly free to disregard parts of the platform when he finds it convenient, then why shouldn’t every GOP legislator follow their leader’s example?–

    They do, when it’s in their interests. Always have, in both major parties. I doubt if the state GOP platform is a highly read document among lawmakers.

    –Not all the GOP quislings are in DC, I see.–

    Vidkun Quisling was the leader of the Norwegian Nazi Party. In collaboration with the German Nazis, he robbed his country blind, imprisoned and murdered Norwegian patriots, and helped deport to the Death Camps Norway’s Jewish population.

    After VE Day, he was convicted of multiple counts of embezzlement, murder and high treason and executed by firing squad.

    Is that who you’re comparing Brady and other GOP leaders to, or do you have another Quisling in mind?


  13. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:55 pm:

    Peggy, you are dangerously close to being banned for life.


  14. - CircularFiringSquad - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:55 pm:

    BTW-2…. many in the State House hallways believe the Brady move is really a death blow…if he does for Marriage Equality what he did for FireMadgian and MichelleForIllinois the ME cause could be set back.


  15. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 2:59 pm:

    ===The bill presents a problem for Illinois Republicans in that voting in favor would not only be unpopular with the Party’s base, …===

    Ask “Jo Galloway” in the SGOP about that robust “base”. Nineteen is NOT a majority.

    Good for Brady to get ahead of this (if this IS being ahead at this point) and trying to expand the GOP. Question fo the “IllinoisReview” - If you have a conservative, and they agree with you on every single thing BUT gay marriage, you going to work against them?

    Remember, this conservative agrees with you on every point you want to make, but see this point, gay marriage, as NOT a deal breaker.

    So, what would it be “IllinoisReview”, are they a RINO, to be villified?

    Eighty Percent IS Eighty Percent, otherwise you get “Three-Putt” Tom, and “Jo Galloway”, and you don’t agree with them all the time too.

    Maybe the “IllinoisReview” wants 19 HGOP members and McCarter and Oberweis in the Senate and … that’s it? ‘Cause right now, “IllinoisReview”, you are shrinking us, again, and not helping.


  16. - Peggy So-IL - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:03 pm:

    Ok. For criticizing a man for selling out his party and constituency? Ok. Only pro-homosexual readers may comment?


  17. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:05 pm:

    And, goodbye,


  18. - haverford - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:21 pm:

    Aw, Rich. You never let us have any fun with the trolls.

    To the point: While it is unusual for the chairman to stumble into the right side of an issue before its irrelevant, huzzah for him and all the legislators that are not going to be remembered for standing in the way of equal rights.

    (And, can I just say, the civil unions bill signing after-party was a blast and a half. Can’t wait to do it again.)


  19. - steve schnorf - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:22 pm:

    Pat Brady today, a huge number of House GOPs last nite on the fiscal cliff, Bill Brady and others on immigrant driver’s licenses. I’m beginning to suspect that we may have actually learned something from the recent election.


  20. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:25 pm:

    Good for Pat Brady.


  21. - Farker - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:36 pm:

    Well at least private citizen Pat Brady seems at least like sane and tolerant individual. Good for him cause I really thought the dude was crazy, turns out that’s just the GOP platform not him.

    Time to step into 2013.


  22. - Ann - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:40 pm:

    I think schnorf has nailed it. We’ve always had our share of decent intelligent Republicans in this state. Nice to see them trying to move their party back to reality.


  23. - Very Old Soil - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:45 pm:

    From a book review in the December 15 issue of the Economist

    “Immanuel Kant has the best insights into the gay-marriage debate—he argues that, once you have stripped away the nonsense, marriage is nothing more than a contract for the mutual use of the sex organs.”


  24. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:47 pm:

    - steve schnorf -,

    From your mouth to their ears - I hope!!!


  25. - Endangered Moderate Species - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:48 pm:

    The ILGOP will change their platform on marriage. The core principle of their base voters is fiscal conservatism and they have learned the hard way they cannot appease all of their fringe members on the social issues. If they are to be relevant in Illinois, they must allow their individual candidates some freedom expressing their individual views regarding social issues. Big tent equals victories.


  26. - shore - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:49 pm:

    Kirk’s mark and dillard have not come out for it, biggert said during her general election she was leaning but was defeated. Everyone else at the federal level including bob dold was not in support, even though I know this is a state issue.

    What this move smacks of is desperation by a party chairman who’s been unable to do much of anything. Also since we’re on Pat Brady, if you’re going to be on tv, please don’t show up with a hairdo that looks like you’ve been wearing a hat for 5 days.


  27. - anon - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 3:49 pm:

    I’m all for recognizing civil unions between same sex partners, with all the associated rights/privileges enjoyed by married partners; what’s wrong with the idea of allowing/preserving the distinction between “marriage” (man/woman) and “civil unions” (man/man,woman/woman)?


  28. - Robert the Bruce - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:02 pm:

    I continue to be amazed at how quickly public opinion is changing on this issue.

    But it is easier for an individual republican to back gay marriage than it is for the chair of the state party, so way to go, Pat Brady!


  29. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:04 pm:

    What’s the point of calling one a civil union and the other a marriage if they’re the same thing legally?


  30. - UISer - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:05 pm:

    anon @3:49

    Seperate is not equal


  31. - jake - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:05 pm:

    As a straight man who will celebrate a 50th wedding anniversary this year with a wonderful woman, I don’t feel even slightly threatened by same-sex marriage. Nor should my straight children, nor their children. Because of the prevailing social mores when I was growing up, including that pertaining in my family, it did take me a while to understand the issue. Now I am totally supportive of legalization of same-sex marriage.


  32. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:07 pm:

    - Endangered Moderate Species -

    I am with you! Very well said.

    Now add a strong Field Operation, real GOTV, and the ILGOP might get things back on track …

    We can only hope, and this is a good first SIGN …


  33. - Colossus - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:12 pm:

    @Farker: Fark love, baby!

    @Everyone else: I gave CapFax a shoutout a couple weeks ago in a thread about the Trotter gun arrest, included links to a couple of our conversations here. Nice to see someone showed up! This is like having two, normally separate, sets of friends on the same place for me.


  34. - Colossus - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:18 pm:

    Word (& Rich) - “quisling” is used in genre fiction pretty much whenever there is a non-human “other” that is fought against. In vampire literature, a “quisling” is a human who cooperates with vampires as their daytime eyes, ears, and security. In World War Z (zombie fiction), a quisling was one who went nutso and began to emulate the zombies, despite not being infected himself. I think a case could be made that Firefly’s Reavers could be termed quislings as well.

    I’ve had my runins with Peggy over the years as well and I don’t think anyone would mistake me for a fan of hers. But, due to my experience with the term, I didn’t immediately connect her statement back to the original (and far more offensive) context. Thanks for the edumacation.


  35. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:43 pm:

    The world has yet to fall apart anywhere that gay marriage is legal.

    I still fail to understand why anybody cares. Somewhere somoebody came to believe that being offended personally translates into an acceptable reason to discriminate against people. Thank goodness we have a Constitution to prevent such absurd thinking to prevail.

    And, I think it’s great if Mr. Brady believes in this. People try to label this issue (and many others for that matter) in terms of Republican and Democrat. I’m pretty sure that gay crosses party lines and it’s nice to see people speak up about things that are just right.


  36. - William J. Kelly - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:44 pm:

    Pat Brady and Illinois GOP “leaders” have never believed in anything. What core principles have they ever had? So what happens when you have an Illinois Republican Party funded by Rahm’s top donors? You get an Illinois GOP that votes like Rahm.


  37. - Just Observing - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:51 pm:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling


  38. - Howie - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:52 pm:

    Conservatives who support marriage equality are growing. Ted Olson, Dick Cheney, Laura Bush to name a few. Illinois GOPs should look to their fellow blue state GOPs in NY and see it isn’t such a damaging issue.


  39. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:58 pm:

    RINOs and Right Wing Whackos need to unite on what unites US, like fiscal, like education, etc.

    we need to expand this tent, we need less of the labels, less of the division, and more of the Unity.


  40. - just sayin' - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:58 pm:

    btw Brady’s statement that, “he was making the calls as a citizen, outside of his official role with the Illinois Republican Party” makes no sense. Guy is constantly insulting the intelligence.


  41. - Ahoy! - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 4:58 pm:

    Good to see Brady actually doing something that is right and smart. He now needs to make phone calls to change the party platform and not just on this issue. That thing needs wholesale change.


  42. - Jaded - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 5:01 pm:

    I am still not sure why they are trying to jam this through in lame duck. With veto proof majorities in both chambers, and the “changing public opinion” on this issue they should introduce the bill in the new GA (say SB/HB 101 for example) and pass it the old fashioned way. Then they wouldn’t be accused by detractors of “jamming the issue through in the waning days of a lame duck General Assembly.”

    Drag it out have some fun with it. You’ve been waiting forever to pass the thing, what’s another 6 months.


  43. - Excessively Rabid - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 5:38 pm:

    It’s all over here, but the only valid conservative position is that people should be free to be what they are by inclination or choice so long as it harms no one else. It’s about time authentic conservatives (cf:Goldwater) did something about taking their party back from what Barry G. called “religious kooks.”


  44. - Sgtstu - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 5:48 pm:

    Good job Brady, look at all of the dems on here giving you a pat on the back.


  45. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 5:52 pm:

    Sgtstu, You are apparently unaware that one cannot win statewide here with only GOP votes. Simple math.


  46. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 5:53 pm:

    –Good job Brady, look at all of the dems on here giving you a pat on the back.–

    LOL, like Schnorf, Willie and others?

    Unless you enjoy the purity of caucusing in a phone booth, perhaps reaching out to Independents who used to be Republicans might be a good idea.


  47. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 5:58 pm:

    - Sgtstu -,

    I can do Math, and I like to win. We need people who agree with us under the Reagan Rule, not the Pure Blood Test!

    Thanks - wordslinger - for setting - Sgtstu - straight on things.


  48. - Sgtstu - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 6:04 pm:

    wordslinger - For me it is not about votes. It is about principal and standing on what you believe to be the right thing. I do not think he should sell his soul for votes.


  49. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 6:11 pm:

    ===For me it is not about votes. It is about principal and standing on what you believe to be the right thing.===

    Then you … and you principals … will help lead my party into the minority … forever.

    This train, on this issue … its on the track, and its going to rol over us if we don’t take away the “intolerant” label for every single social issue, for every single GOP candidate.

    You are cutting your nose, to spite MY face and you are not helping. The votes add up to this probably passing sometime soon, are we, as the GOP, going to seem systematically “intolerant”, that the only way to be a Republican is “intolerance”?

    Find common ground, fight the battles we can win together, and move the GOP forward. Otherwise, if you aren’t counting votes, or about winning in the big picture, then where are we anyway?


  50. - DanL60 - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 6:37 pm:

    I would also suggest that being tolerant of gay marriage may not equate to being supportive of gay marriage. Live and let live, if you will.

    The happy fun people want gay marriage, the angry bitter curmudgeons don’t-that is lousy marketing by the GOP. Oswego Willy has plenty more examples described accurately.


  51. - Langhorne - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 6:50 pm:

    Politics is the accumulation of advantage, under conditions of scarcity and change. And it is the function of the minority to innovate. So it is way past time for the minority State GOP to maneuver on the basis of policies, and numbers that work. Not dogma. See ev Dirksen — what do you do when the rock you are standing on is getting flooded?


  52. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 6:53 pm:

    –I do not think he should sell his soul for votes.–

    Geez, first quislings and now selling souls. Where did the GOP get a reputation for intolerance?


  53. - LincolnLounger - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 7:47 pm:

    Sadly, there is a sizeable chunk of my Republicn Party that would rather be “right” than win.


  54. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 8:01 pm:

    ===Sadly, there is a sizeable chunk of my Republicn Party that would rather be “right” than win.===

    This is what we are facing. The Right Wing and the RINOs are far more concerned about beating each other, than winning together.


  55. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 9:00 pm:

    ==It is about principal and standing on what you believe to be the right thing. I do not think he should sell his soul for votes. ==

    That is exactly the attitude that is hindering anything being done is the country. You all are so hell bent on ideological purity that you are willing to set getting anything done in the name of “principal.” Besides, your “principaled stand” on this issue couldn’t be more wrong. If you were a true conservative you wouldn’t want to be involved in other people’s business. Reconcile that for me will you. Conservatives are all about getting government out of our lives . . . except when you want to be in our lives.


  56. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 9:01 pm:

    Sorry. That was me above.


  57. - wishbone - Wednesday, Jan 2, 13 @ 11:01 pm:

    “I still fail to understand why anybody cares. Somewhere somebody came to believe that being offended personally translates into an acceptable reason to discriminate against people. Thank goodness we have a Constitution to prevent such absurd thinking to prevail.”

    +1 Very well said.


  58. - Just Me - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 6:28 am:

    Since when did the Republican Party become the party of equal rights? Oh yeah…..SINCE IT WAS FOUNDED!!! Good for Pat.


  59. - too obvious - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 8:29 am:

    Hardly a surprise that Democrats would be happy that the chairman of the opposition party is selling out his own party. Sure, Democrats like it, but they’re still going to vote Democrat. Meanwhile Pat Brady depresses his own base.

    Just the latest desperation move by a failed gop chairman who knows nothing about politics. If the GOP’s “plan” is to copy the Democrats, there’s no reason to have a GOP. Why not just vote for the real thing?


  60. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 9:01 am:

    ===If the GOP’s “plan” is to copy the Democrats, there’s no reason to have a GOP.===

    We basically have no GOP now because too many think like you.


  61. - Skeptic - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 9:02 am:

    You know, Gov. Chris Christy got flak from his party for straying from Republican purity and working with Obama after Hurricane Sandy. You know why he did? Because it was the right thing to do. How is Pat Brady’s stand any different?


  62. - wordslinger - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 9:18 am:

    ===If the GOP’s “plan” is to copy the Democrats, there’s no reason to have a GOP.===

    You presume it’s a party issue, when it’s really more about demographics — and they are changing rapidly.

    Since 2003, support for gay marriage in Great Lakes states, including Illinois, has gone from 30% to 49%.

    Nationally, among those 18 to 29, 73% are in favor of gay marriage.

    You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/159089/religion-major-factor-americans-opposed-sex-marriage.aspx

    http://www.people-press.org/2012/11/09/behind-gay-marriage-momentum-regional-gaps-persist/


  63. - HEY JACK, - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 10:45 am:

    Let’s remember the founding principles that founded our great country regarding GOD. I don’t think the BIBLE teaches this is an ok thing to do. Civil Unions have protected chosen partners. Why take it any further. Marriage is defined between a woman and man!!!!


  64. - wordslinger - Thursday, Jan 3, 13 @ 10:50 am:

    –Let’s remember the founding principles that founded our great country regarding GOD.–

    They were?


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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        * Not guilty pleas in red light camera bribery scheme
        * Prosecutors: Man plotted obstruction after slaying off-duty cop


        * Dana Thomas House Drying Out, But More Water Works Needed
        * FutureGen Takes Another Step Forward
        * Decatur's Kirkland - From Beethoven To The Beatles
        * Big Predators In Illinois Inspire New Law
        * WUIS/SJ-R Business Report: Casey's Expansion; Parsons In Court; Farmland Prices Fall
        * Opposition Research Key Part Of Political Dark Arts
        * Digging up political dirt? That's their job
        * State Starts Accepting Medical Marijuana Requests
        * Newborn Found Alive In Jacksonville Trash Bin
        * DNR Releases Fracking Rules


        * Rauner criticizes Quinn on veterans
        * Quinn: Eating crackers on minimum wage challenge
        * Illinois prisons struggle with backup power issues
        * State starts accepting medical marijuana requests
        * Couple’s wedding gifts help the community
        * Angela Bertoni: How to raise awareness of domestic violence in October
        * Catherine Rampell: Tech firms’ poor record of diversity
        * Audit finds state lax in reviewing eligibility for children’s health insurance program
        * Does the governor need to live in the Executive Mansion?
        * Our Opinion: Driving into floodwater a deadly practice


        * Champaign recognizes citizen heroes
        * Overturned semi leaks fuel near New Athens
        * The Nifty Fifty: Prep soccer players to watch in 2014
        * Athletes of the Week: Grammer and Bauer
        * Man charged with aggravated robbery
        * Officers working outside of city concern aldermen
        * EPA OKs FutureGen plan for CO2 storage
        * Hayasaki comes up aces for Central
        * Ram moves on in doubles
        * Football fans have empty feeling


        * St. Charles North freshman Ernst excels at Elgin meet
        * Schofield, Kepski key for Carmel
        * New high-definition video scoreboard, some special seating for next season
        * St. Charles East handles West Chicago
        * Marmion, St. Edward's Mattas shine at Elgin Country Club

        * Roskam hires wounded veteran in West Chica...
        * Inactive Congress Discussed - Alton Daily ...
        * Roskam, Kirk speak to local business owner...
        * Roskam Talks Taxes - Alton Daily News
        * Nadler introduces resolution condemning an...
        * US Rep. Lipinski accepting service academy...
        * Dem Explains Why He Voted 'Present' on DAC...
        * Immigration dominates Lipinski's town hall...
        * Schock travels to India to promote humanit...
        * Congressman leads humanitarian trip to Ind...

        * Thomson Prison Staffing Continues With Job......
        * Sen. Dick Durbin on Election, Congress, More...
        * Sen. Dick Durbin on Election, Congress, More...
        * Sen. Dick Durbin on Election, Congress, More...
        * Sen. Dick Durbin on Election, Congress, More...

        * Kirk: US must take hard line against Islam......

        * My Fathers Day Present
        * Study: Businesses In Low-Income, Majority Minority Areas Struggle To Access Credit
        * Loan denied stamp
        * Election 2014
        * Guest Post: Harris v. Quinn: Another Nail In The Coffin Or Shot In The Arm For Labor?
        * Women's Rights Advocates, IL Lawmakers Rally For Reproductive Choice
        * Preckwinkle at Reproductive choice event
        * Reproductive choice event 2
        * Reproductive choice event
        * ISIS claims it has executed a second American journalist


        * When it comes to jobs and hiring, Pat Quinn is veteran unfriendly
        * Pat Quinn’s Blagojevich-style Hiring Hurts Veterans
        * Rauner Rolls Out Veterans Coalition
        * ICYMI: Capitol Fax: “A Very Good Point”
        * Like All Illinoisans, Veterans Are Hurting Under Pat Quinn




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