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A very good point

Tuesday, Sep 2, 2014

* Illinois has a veterans hiring preference law. So, handing out a few hundred state government jobs to the politically connected when those positions should’ve been handled by the civil service system (which would mean veterans would have a preference) does, indeed, harm some vets

- Posted by Rich Miller        

  1. - IllinoisO'Malley - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:20 pm:

    Rauner’s tax avoidance schemes hurt VA funding. Also, some of the nursing home victims could of been vets too.

  2. - A guy... - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:21 pm:


  3. - Bogart - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:25 pm:

    The TV Commercial ought to be good. IDOT office with vet in line at employment window. SIgn overhead “I don’t want you” under a picture of Quinn. Or, “we don’t want no one no one sent”

  4. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:34 pm:

    == SIgn overhead “I don’t want you” under a picture of Quinn. Or, “we don’t want no one no one sent” ==

    “Who sent you?”

    “Uncle Sam, sir.”


    “Who sent you?”

    “Daley - Madigan - Pick Your Fave.”

    “You’re hired. Congratulations!”

  5. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:34 pm:

    Bogart, don’t quit your day job.

  6. - Ahoy! - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:42 pm:

    Never thought about that but some ads about how Quinn worked around hiring laws to help veterans find jobs by filling the positions with political hacks discredits any of Quinn’s gold start commercials. Throw in some statistics about veteran unemployment and that can be a really hard hitting ad. And Rauner can run as many of them as he wants to. That could be harsh.

  7. - Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:44 pm:

    O’Malley, don’t pull a muscle making that reach for a point. Geez.

  8. - Lou Holtz - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:49 pm:

    This charge is false. Jobs at IDOT for technical and engineering work are fully exempt from the personnel code and, therefore, exempt from the Personnel Code’s veterans preference rules. The issue at DOT relates to whether the jobs were or were not subject to Rutan. Misclassifyjng a job as Rutan exempt has nothing to do with evading veterans preference. Rauner is conflating the requirements of the Code and the requirements of Rutan. Even if the jobs were classified as Rutan covered they’d still be Personnel Code exempt. Remember DOT has it’s own personnel structure under 4(c)(12) of the Code. So this charge misses the mark.

  9. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:50 pm:

    === Jobs at IDOT for technical and engineering work===

    So what? There are a whole lot of other jobs at IDOT.

  10. - Anonymoiis - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:51 pm:

    FKA and Bogart nail it. This connects the whole scandal to real world consequences for those outside of State Government.

  11. - Anonymoiis - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:54 pm:

    ==Jobs at IDOT for technical and engineering work are fully exempt from the personnel code and,==

    I must’ve missed the part where Veteran preference was limited to only these two types of jobs. As Rich points out, those aren’t the only IDOT jobs out there, and it’s undeniable that the way the system was twisted kept the Veterans preference code from being used.

  12. - OneMan - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:56 pm:

    Rauner’s tax avoidance schemes hurt VA funding. Also, some of the nursing home victims could of been vets too.

    Wow, where to start with this…

    Tax avoidance schemes hurt VA funding

    Any sort of illustration or example? Do you really think even if he didn’t pay a dollar in federal taxes ever, that would have made even a single $1 difference in VA funding?

    Well we would have been able to do this but the $53,000,000 that Bruce Rauner would have contributed in taxes (lets say his tax rate is 100%) of 2,770,000,000,000 that’s 2.77 trillion by the way works out to VA cuts…

    But yeah, it’s Rauner’s taxes that impact Illinois vets more than making jobs not subject to the veterans preference…

    So using that logic we all hurt Illinois vets if we decide to gas up out of state while driving if we have enough to make it into a Illinois, I guess you are a better person since I am sure you never purchase any consumable outside of the state if you can buy it inside the state.

    So do I hurt Illinois vets if I take the tax write off I get for my property taxes?

    You go with that…

    But lets go with the second brilliant thought you had…

    Also, some of the nursing home victims could of been vets too.

    At least you went with a ‘could’ here, so I will give you credit for that. The thing is, how much difference one way or the other did Rauner’s ownership make?

    The thing is, you don’t address in any way, shape or form the idea that the veterans preference was bypassed or ignored in order to give someone’s staffer a job? Which was explicit actions taken by IDOT, you may be the only person who thinks that even though they were sending over names the Governor’s office expected every job to be filled by making it open to everyone, but even then as much as you may dislike or even hate Rauner, were those actions with IDOT good public policy?

  13. - Lou Holtz - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 1:58 pm:

    The jobs Rauner is talking about were exempt from the Code - the staff assistants listed in the eig report. If they were code exempt there was no evasion of veterans preference. The charge is false .

  14. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:00 pm:

    ===If they were code exempt there was no evasion of veterans preference===


    They were, indeed, code exempt. However, they shouldn’t have been.

  15. - Nope, nope, nope - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:04 pm:

    ===So do I hurt Illinois vets if I take the tax write off I get for my property taxes?===

    Unless you’re claiming residence in the Caymen Islands your analogy is laughable.

  16. - so... - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:05 pm:

    ==The jobs Rauner is talking about were exempt from the Code - the staff assistants listed in the eig report. If they were code exempt there was no evasion of veterans preference. The charge is false .==

    One of the “staff assistant” jobs gotten by a Phil Hare crony consisted of creating spreadsheets and planting trees. That was “code exempt.” Are you seriously arguing that was proper?

  17. - Lou Holtz - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:05 pm:

    That’s not what the inspector general said. The report spoke to Rutan not to the propriety of exemptions from the Code. Rutan and the Code are distinct. Where in the eig report is it claimed that dot evaded veterans preference? If there is none what is the factual basis for the charge?

  18. - Anonymoiis - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:09 pm:

    Lou Holtz is reaching more on this than he does predicting Notre Dame to win it all every year.

  19. - Gooner - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:10 pm:

    Of course, Rauner’s case is not helped by his apparent desire to reduce wages, pensions, and payrolls in state government.

    Under Quinn, not enough vets are hired. Under Rauner, nobody is going to want to be hired.

  20. - Gone, but not forgotten - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:11 pm:

    The one position that IDOT enforces veteran preference is that of Highway Maintainer. Many of the hacks were qualified for this position, but were not veterans. Therefore, they were hired to positions for which they were not qualified and did not fit at all, that being “working” in an office environment and supposedly having authority.

  21. - Lou Holtz - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:14 pm:

    I’m arguing that the charge of evading veterans preference is simply wrong. There is no factual basis for the claim and it’s not alleged in the eig report. Not arguing anything that was done wrong proper. The eig report makes claims and findings - those ought to be fixed but I’m against attacking people for mistakes or wrongful deeds that they did not committ. Precision is important here.

  22. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:14 pm:

    ===Precision is important here. ===


    Whatever you say, dude.

  23. - Precinct Captain - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:19 pm:

    ==The TV Commercial ought to be good==

    And all the “real world” has to do is look at Pat Quinn’s record on veterans, which is outstanding and maybe run an ad of his own, like this one:

  24. - foster brooks - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:28 pm:

    Yes and bruce Rauner has never let any vets go from his vulture capitalist gig? How many vets will he let go when he becomes governor? Btw idot HM’s only have exclusive veterans preference

  25. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:37 pm:

    @so… - you beat me to it.

    @Lou Holtz - even if you are right from a technical point, there is more to this.

    People hear that a “cloutee’s” job involves planting trees, making spreadsheets or organizing training classes, and realize that many veterans and other Illinoisans are just as capable of doing those tasks. The Inspector General’s report paints the rest of the picture from there.

  26. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:46 pm:

    @Anonymoiis - thanks. All credit to @Bogart for inspiring my shaky foray into writing commercials lol.

    “You want to see my resume? 10 years of honorable service and a purple heart.”

    “Not necessary, kid. Like I said, you’re not qualified. Thanks for coming out though. Next!”

    “You want to see my resume?”

    “Not necessary, kid. Mike Madigan IS your resume. Come on in and let’s find you a desk.”

  27. - Nieva - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 2:59 pm:

    Someone should look into the 6 month temps that have been hired by IDOT over the last 8 years. Several in the local yards are not vets. They were put to work and then put in the Teamsters Union. That have call back rights every year This was all put into play under Rod. Quinn has kept up the program.

  28. - Skirmisher - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 3:02 pm:

    So when did technical and engineering positions beoome exempt from veterans preference? They certainly were not exempt in agencies other than IDOT when I was interviewing and hiring! Veterans preference doesn’t mean you hire a non-engineer for an engineer’s job- It simply means you are required to interview qualified vets first, and justify your decision to hire a non-vet.

  29. - walker - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 3:39 pm:

    Not sure it will play. Quinn has a well-deserved reputation for supporting, helping, and hiring vets and their families. His commitment has always gone way beyond his job. If anything is solid for him, that is it.

  30. - Anonymoiis - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 3:54 pm:

    ==Not sure it will play. Quinn has a well-deserved reputation for==

    Quinn also had a reputation as an outsider fighting to fix corruption. Note the word “had” ..,reputations come and go fast

  31. - Carl Nyberg - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 4:16 pm:

    I applied for a civil service job in the 90s when the GOP ruled the roost.

    I couldn’t take advantage of veterans preference b/c the agency refused to give me the test that I needed to take to make me eligible.

  32. - IllinoisO'Malley - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 5:13 pm:

    You’re right!!! How could I have been so wrong! Avoiding taxes increases the amount of money gov’t has to spend! You’re a genius!!! Rauner should hire you to work on his budget, you and it are both full of hot air!!!

  33. - Anyone Remember - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 5:13 pm:

    Carl Nyberg
    =I couldn’t take advantage of veterans preference b/c the agency refused to give me the test that I needed to take to make me eligible.=

    Thank you for your contribution. Prior to the Denton decision Veteran’s Preference was honored by not being followed. Many of the people Blago went after at Traffic Safety were hired in violation of Veteran’s Preference.

  34. - Jorge - Tuesday, Sep 2, 14 @ 6:39 pm:

    I hope Lou does try to say prediction this weekend on ESPN.

  35. - - Wednesday, Sep 3, 14 @ 4:26 am:

    Wow that was unusual. I just wrote an very long comment but after I clicked submit my comment didn’t show up.
    Grrrr… well I’m not writing all that over again. Regardless, just
    wanted to say excellent blog!

  36. - Interpol Blind Rage leaked album - Thursday, Sep 4, 14 @ 5:46 am:

    My brother recommended I might like this blog.
    He was totally right. This post actually made my day. You can not imagine just how much time I had spent for this info!

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