70 Comments - Ghost - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:49 pm: Nothing brings in business like layoffs and unemployment…. the GOP has done more dmg on its platform of building our economy then the recession - illinois manufacturer - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:51 pm: It’s called tuition and thanks to Rauner there is less of that. Look in the mirror for the job exporter. - theq - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:52 pm: I can honestly say that I have never seen a person less self aware and tone deaf than this governor. - Obamas Puppy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:53 pm: Apparently students stop bein_ kids when they graduate from High School. He dose not care about Hi Ed the sooner people realize that he is creating a crisis in order to consolidate and dismantle the current system the better. - Saluki - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:55 pm: Just one more reason why I believe that the Republicans are going to be hammered this fall. Rauner is not the worst governor in Illinois history, but he will go down as the least effective without question. - Ryan - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:56 pm: This is exactly what Gov. Droppi G wants: the systematic dismantling of public higher education in Illinois. After all, he has said the DeVry is an excellent example of how higher ed should be done. - burbanite - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:57 pm: Was at a graduation this weekend and there were a lot of hawkeye symbols on the mortar boards (alot). Only saw one Illinois university represented, ISU. - LTSW - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:00 pm: My son graduated from Murray State in 2005. They have only a small up charge for border state students. So does SEMO in Cape Girardeau MO. Murray’s tuition was cheaper than Illinois schools back then. His tuition was about 60% of what my daughter paid at Illinois State in 2010. - ArchPundit - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:04 pm: From a financial point of view this will have longer lasting impacts as well. The dent in enrollment will roll through the next four-five years (obvious if you think about it, but not always on everyone’s mind). This is going to take a lot of time to work through for the Illinois universities. - illinois manufacturer - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:08 pm: The demographics are looking bad nationally too. Last year enrollment was down 2% And Illinois has worse demos - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:11 pm: ===Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois, University of Illinois-Springfield and Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville all say they had fewer applicants this year. Southern Illinois University’s Carbondale campus was among those that declined to provide numbers, but Chancellor Brad Colwell told university trustees this month to expect a drop in fall enrollment…=== Rauner absolutely LOVES this. Consolidation of higher ed, closing of Chicago State, Eastern… starving Western, SIUE… making the Carbondale campus irrelevant… … while members in college towns vote against their economic engine. It’s mind-blowing - Education - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:13 pm: Murray state in Kentucky is more cost effeciant than any university in IL. With SIU-C being known as Little Chicago,students are heading to Murray. - Rich Miller - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:14 pm: ===With SIU-C being known as Little Chicago=== Um, are you trying to say “black”? Because if you are, you ain’t hiding your racism very well. - Anonymous - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:15 pm: Yes, SOME of the schools have significant sources of other funds…which come with many restrictions on how they can be used. - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:20 pm: Willy, as usual, is point on. How are we going to grow our state when we are forcing our best and brightest to out of state colleges and universities with them never returning? - Stones - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:25 pm: Murray State is a good alternative to Illinois schools in that it offers In-state tuition rates to Illinois residents too. - illinois manufacturer - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:26 pm: That said . I was worried it might be worse…as ow says vote accordingly - Another prof - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:27 pm: Seriously, this is whacked. Research funding has restrictions. Donor funding (endowment) is NOT going to replace tuition dollars; donor funding is usually used for special projects (buildings, chaired endowments, other things that the donors can put their names on). State fund is — well — not really there and now he says that tuition dollars — which are already higher than anyone I know is happy with — aren’t really all that important (not enough to protect). WHAT. IS. GOING. ON. WITH. THIS. GUY? - MSIX - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:30 pm: =This is some seriously wrong-headed thinking.= There’s a seriously wrong-headed guy in the governor’s office. - 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:33 pm: My older son is a HS senior next year and I don’t want him looking at any public state schools–why would he? - G'Kar - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:35 pm: A couple of things. First, Murray has always recruited heavily in southern Illinois. To many locals SIUC was always that liberal monster known for its “wickedness and perversion” (I was told that once by someone from Ava). When I was an undergrad at SIUC in the `70’s I remember a billboard on Rte 13 where Murray boasted “Our Dorms are not co-ed” or something similar. Second, I don’t know if it has anything to do with the impasse or not, but for the first time since I think 2012, the enrollment at my community college is actually going up, compared to last year. Are more students playing it safe by staying at the CC as opposed to committing to a state 4 year? - PublicServant - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:37 pm: === WHAT. IS. GOING. ON. WITH. THIS. GUY? === I can give you 56 million reasons a year why Rauner doesn’t have to have a clue. But he knows exactly what he’s doing. HE DOESN’T CARE. - wordslinger - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:38 pm: –Meanwhile, the governor has said he’s not too worried because universities have “other funding sources that are very, very significant.” This is some seriously wrong-headed thinking.– It’s also a rejection of the uninterrupted bipartisan support for public higher ed in Illinois that pre-dates the Civil War. Quite a stunning change in the GOP of Lincoln and the Morrill Act. How this is “good for the economy,” perhaps some of our GOP legislators can explain. Pay attention when the man slips into fits of candor. He means it. This stuff wouldn’t be happening if he didn’t want it to happen. The governor’s office is, by far, the most powerful in Illinois. - OneMan - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:38 pm: Well, my daughter had an absolutely horrible experience in visiting and getting information from U of I Springfield. One of the few state schools that has her program as a full degree. The tour guide kept looking at her phone, they canceled the meeting with the faculty member with no notice. Also didn’t respond to two e-mails about that. Considering the effort the other schools she visited put into courting her, U of I Springfield seemed to have cared less. Her scores and GPA are significantly higher than the average for that school. U of Kansas on the other hand, she qualified for two different scholarships (including one for all Illinois residents) that results in her tuition being about the same as U of I. - BBG Watch - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:44 pm: Also, when students go out-of-state they tend to stay there. In 2004 a Wisconsin school gave a better deal to my daughter and her friends. They are residents of Kenisha now. Who is going to be left when all the professors and students leave? The number of ruined businesses, the tax revenue, the college educated students … all gone. What a masterful turnaround agenda. Throw in all the state employees who he is currently trying to decimate. Grim reaper has arrived with Trump right behind. Shameful! - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:47 pm: Putting this in a slightly different perspective - When I graduated from High School ( ‘67 ) three classmates went to Murray State, only one returned to Illinois. A niece received both BA/BS degrees from SEMO ( in 4 years, by the way ) and is now working very successfully in her field ) in Boston. My only nephew just graduated from the UofI and has accepted a great job in Champaign. Three other nieces went to college out of state and have not returned. All were highly qualified to attend the best our state had to offer but most looked elsewhere. === WHAT. IS. GOING. ON. WITH. THIS. GUY? === Exactly! - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:49 pm: - OneMan - My 308 friend, I’m curious as to your daughter’s class (Congratulations to her) and what the district has in the number of students going out of state and the awards/monies awarded to those students. I’ll need to look into that. With two high schools graduating seniors, it’s close, or in the neighborhood of 1,000 graduates. Congrats again, you should be very proud. Rock Chalk, Jayhawk. - Hit or Miss - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:58 pm: Many of the students who go out of state to finish their education will never return to Illinois. This loss of ‘brain power’ is very bad for business over the long term. - Blue Bayou - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 1:58 pm: Brain drain in IL = More GOP voters - In a Minute - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:09 pm: Has Illinois ever studied going to a unified system of higher ed like the SUNY in New York or Board of Regents in California? It might result in higher ed being more insulated from political machinations and some efficiency if you could have governing authority not so diffused and parochial. Those universities and community colleges were built to accommodate GI bill students and baby boomers and aren’t well suited to gaining knowledge and credentials in the internet age. - OneMan - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:18 pm: OW – If I knew who you were (since you seem to know who I am) I could send you a picture of her crew and schools they are attending. I don’t have the program in front of me, but if memory serves less than 10% ~ 15% of the top 10% of her class (which she is one of) at OE is attending a state school. A couple of U of I students, a couple of UIC and a think one NIU. Don’t recall any of the other ‘direction schools being named’ fair number going to Iowa actually. - Illinois Bob - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:20 pm: the other problem is that the Illinois state universities are really weak in the “money” curricula. U of I is pretty good, but ISU, NIU, EIU, UIC, WIU and SIU either don’t have engineering programs, or they’re not very highly regarded. Business programs? Outside of U of I, they’re pretty mediocre. You’ve essentially got one national class state university in the economic driver curricula, and their rejecting large numbers of qualified Illinoisan for higher paying foreign students who take the education and run. The problem is bad policy and quality, NOT the budget impasse. - AnonymousOne - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:21 pm: ==saw a lot of Hawkeye mortarboards== University of Iowa is benefitting (actually the state of Iowa is) from our dysfunction. Last year’s freshman at Iowa had the highest entry GPA ever and record # of students entering. This year will be more. The university just finished a state of the art dorm on one side of the river and a new dorm is being built on the east side. Things are booming not just at the university but in the state. They have high state taxes. No one seems to be fleeing. - Illinois Bob - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:23 pm: @Blue Bayou =Brain drain in IL = More GOP voters= Just the opposite, Blue. How do you think the Dems have been able to dominate Illinois politics? The more poorly educated Illinoisans are, the “bluer’ the state gets…. - AnonymousOne - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:32 pm: ==the more poorly educated ILlinoisans are, the bluer the state gets== So is our governor a secret Dem? - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:34 pm: - Illinois Bob - Explain Mississippi. You’re welcome. - OneMan - With all respect, you are good guy and well known, to your absolute credit. I think it would be telling if I lived in Kendall County and didn’t know you. First, your daughter’s top 10% is something. Well done. It’s very interesting how few going to UIC, UIUC or NIU (Northern’s proximity and riding stature as reasons). The opportunities and recruiting of Illinois students (Iowa and Iowa State are leaders in this) married to uncertainty in Illinois seems to be getting more obvious and measurable, abd arched cost of the directional schools. Illinois State University seems to be “keeping up” but it shouldn’t be such a struggle to succeed when so many students aren’t being courted properly. - Doc Anonymous - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:42 pm: @ Illinois Bob ==The problem is bad policy and quality, NOT the budget impasse.== So Illinois regional universities should be thriving, despite receiving only 30% of their state funding, ten months late? If you think U of I engineering is only pretty good, your standards are certainly high, but you also had better argue that we only need elite universities for elite students. Which, come to think of it, is Rauner’s plan, if he has a plan. That’s an excellent way to educate the top 5% of Illinois residents. Illinois has only one elite campus, though our regional universities have individual programs that compete with elites. The point is that if you want to educate a large proportion of your college age population, you can’t do it only with elite schools. The best engineering programs in the country are not the best places for B students, who would flunk out. And, yes, if we are going to have enough engineers, we need B student engineers (i.e., B students in high school whose ambition kicks in in college, enabling them to learn how to build bridges that won’t fall down and all the rest) as well as A ones. - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:51 pm: Illinois Bob - “…and their rejecting large numbers of qualified Illinoisan for higher paying foreign students who take the education and run.” I know that there are substantial foreign students attending our Alma Mater, but how can you substantiate your claim? And I reject the statement that the budget impasse has not had its impact on the UofI. You can talk all you want about the foreign students and the bloated administration, but we have a true national gem that is being denigrated at the hands of our state leadership. And on this point, both BVR and the leadership of both houses of the GA are to blame. - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 2:56 pm: Thanks Doc - 30% of state funding is NOT what our best students either deserve or expect! - Bigtwich - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:01 pm: –To many locals SIUC was always that liberal monster known for its “wickedness and perversion”– Those were the days my friend . . . - Another Tier II Worker - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:02 pm: There’s an article behind Crain’s paywall about the University of Illinois beginning the process to lay off civil service staff. Even the massive U of I cannot survive as it is with only 1/3 of its standard state funding and half of the MAP funds. The crumbs thrown at the public universities is not enough and more damage is being done every single day that this drags on. - burbanite - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:12 pm: Karl Rove disagrees with you Bob: “As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.” - Illinois bob - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:13 pm: @ Illini You can google the number of foreign students in U of I engineering school and business school. The last I heard it was somewhere between 15-20% as undergrads (higher at grad school level), mostly from Red China. BTW, our alma Mater’s rep is starting to slide, and it isn’t due to lack of money spent. About the only highly rated business program is Accounting. Logistics, Finance, and BA aren’t all that distinctive. My kids are in logistics and supply chain management at ASU where they’re ranked 5th in the nation. - Illinois Bob - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:14 pm: @burbanite Just another thing on which Rove and I disagree. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:21 pm: - Illinois Bob - ( - Arizona Bob -, - Zonker -(?)) I’ve yet to hear of a top tier education institution still be considered “top tier” when 70% of its funding isn’t even allocated. ===…mostly from Red China.=== If they came from Green China, how would feel about that? You know the 1980s have been over, for awhile now, lol ===About the only highly rated business program is Accounting. Logistics, Finance, and BA aren’t all that distinctive.=== Golly, if you then tell students 7 out of every 10 dollars needed to fund a non-distinct school aren’t coming, what kinda rep will that school have? I’m excited you’re - Illinois Bob - now. Your distain gave you away, not your compelling arguments. - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:36 pm: Illinois Bob - you still have not made your original point that qualified in-state students are being denied admission to the elite programs. There were foreign students attending in the late 60’s and early 70’s when we attended - I even lived with one for a year. My cousins have had 8 children graduate from Engineering or Commerce and 3 have gone on to get graduate degrees from the University or MBA’s from the University of Chicago. Granted, neither me, my brother or his son were inclined to engineering as a profession, but the experience at our Flagship campus was invaluable. Thanks - Willy! You helped make my point. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:43 pm: I’ve said it before… The legacy of any governor is the number of buildings they can put their name on to make the state better, not the number of willful buildings closed to make the state less. Rauner wants Eastern, Chicago State eliminated, would like to see Western wilt on the vine, and is confused why Southern needs so many campuses. Rauner has purposely decided that higher ed will sink or swim by not allowing what has been done since 1857… fund higher ed institutions. Charleston and Macomb, Todd Maisch says to “Hang in there!”. Capiche? - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:45 pm: - illini - No worries, many have made the arguments, I’m not inventing anything. Thanks. - Anonymous - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 3:54 pm: And walk around the popular neighborhoods in Chicago and they have Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc. bars because so many of those grads live there. Hard to feel sorry for EIU when they lost 23% of their student population from 2010-14. That’s right, pre BR, when Pat Quinn was guv, apparently nobody was keeping an eye on the miserable job they were doing attracting and retaining students. Keep most of them and they are in pretty good shape. Yep, blame it on Rauner. - Enemy of the State - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 4:00 pm: I’m glad I’m not a dean or department head at a state school and have to recruit top notch faculty and staff. Any numbers on how many profs are bailing out? - Federalist - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 4:17 pm: Ryan - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 12:56 pm: This is exactly what Gov. Droppi G wants: the systematic dismantling of public higher education in Illinois. After all, he has said the DeVry is an excellent example of how higher ed should be done. Ryan-0 you got it right. I have said this repeatedly. In his dreamland public universities would cease to exist. He would let the U of I continue but only because of the tremendous pressure. - Federalist - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 4:31 pm: In my opinion there is no doubt that all of this will chase students away to other states. And to make matters worse for Illinois Public universities the future for enrollment looks somewhat dismal. A much smaller middle class White population is in our public schools. Schools like Joliet are only 14% White and 55% Hispanic. Homewood Flossmoor is just 21.3% White. Statewide K - 12 is less than 50% White. This will not make for positive enrollments numbers at our universities. Certainly many will lower their academic standards for admission (the U of I will continue to take the cream of the crop) just to keep the doors open. But the enrollment numbers are not cheery even without Rauner trying to destroy public universities. - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 4:37 pm: ” He would let the U of I continue but only because of the tremendous pressure.” Great comment on our Governors priorities - yes many of us are pleading, not only for our Alma Mater, but for ALL the State Universities. The UofI is very special to many Alumni and those like me that belong to Illinois Connection and other groups, but it is a gem for this State that is being left to wither on the vine. Sad, Sad, Sad. Sad. FORGET ABOUT THE TURN AROUND AGENDA - fund our schools, community colleges and Universities - this is the future of our state that you are messing with!!!!! - Illinois bob - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 4:56 pm: @Illini http://isss.illinois.edu/download_forms/stats/sp16_stats.pdf Here’s the link for the number of foreign students at UIUC. 1607 undergrads in engineering. 3639 students in engineering including grad students Total students in engineering can be found here: http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/class/enrsp16.htm Total graduate and undergrad engineering students are just over 10,000 students. I think that having about 36% of your student body from other countries is pretty substantial. Apparently you and OW don’t think so. I’m a graduate of the engineering school there, so perhaps I pay more attention to these things than you. Funny thing. This “underfunding” doesn’t seem to bother the foreign students. This took me about 3 minutes to find. Do your own research next time. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:00 pm: - “Bob” - (lol) What’s comical for me is ALL this research and ALL this importance on school… … and you hate… teachers. Reconcile that, get back to me. - illini - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:04 pm: Sorry, Rich - should have read your sidebar before I started my ranting. This is one of my “hot button” issues that I will continue to comment on. Thank you for your forum - as always some of us can agree to disagree - but it is nice to connect with some that are on another page. - Arthur Andersen - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:05 pm: OW big +1 - Illinois Bob - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:06 pm: @OW, I love the teachers, but hate the system that make them something less than honorable and more than a little self centered. That’s where we disagree. When you can put the interests of the kids above your union’s enrichment, get back to me. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:10 pm: - “Bob - Also, thanks for stats I didn’t ask for. That’s fun. - HistoryProf - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:12 pm: I’ll give you engineering, but are you sure a “business” major is actually an economic driver, or are you assuming such? - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:15 pm: ===When you can put the interests of the kids above your union’s enrichment, get back to me.=== - “Bob” -, I fed you, your Union hating when the market dictates teachers salaries is sad. Good luck - Former Hoosier - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 5:34 pm: Approx. 1,050 seniors graduated yesterday from New Trier. Only 10% of them will be attending colleges in Illinois (primarily U of I and Northwestern). Although it is true that the majority of these students have always headed out of state, it is also true that the number staying in state has dropped significantly. - OneMan - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 8:29 pm: Ran the numbers, 59 kids in the top 10% of the class, it was about 8 for U of I and 8 for UIC (so I was low on that total number) one to ISU and one to NIU. All of students who will attend U of I or UIC are going to study a science. All of the state school attendees (including the ISU and the NIU students) are going into STEM majors. Alabama has 3, Aurora U has 2, Purdue 2 one kid is going to Columbia in Chicago to study comedy writing and performance. - Oswego Willy - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 8:41 pm: ===Ran the numbers, 59 kids in the top 10% of the class, it was about 8 for U of I and 8 for UIC (so I was low on that total number) one to ISU and one to NIU.=== Wow, 30% going to state schools, that’s really good. Glad to see ISU and NIU in there too. STEM and Science isn’t that much of s surprise nowadays, I read constantly about those two areas of education being such a focus towards students advancing into higher education institutions. Thanks for doing all that checking - OneMan - - Southern Illinoisan - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 9:06 pm: My daughter just graduated high school in Illinois with high honors. She was accepted at U of I but chose Murray State. Tuition was cheaper and the staff at Murray did a great job recruiting. - Way Way Down Here - Monday, May 23, 16 @ 9:53 pm: Drive around Carbondale and count the “For Sale” signs. And that’s all I have to say about that. . . - Filmmaker Professor - Tuesday, May 24, 16 @ 12:01 am: You all forgot about our $21 million secret weapon: Lovie Smith. He will save everything. - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 24, 16 @ 7:02 am: And once again film prof, you don’t understand where the money comes from to pay coaches at UIUC. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, May 24, 16 @ 7:34 am: @Oswego =Also, thanks for stats I didn’t ask for. That’s fun.= Illini asked for them. Not everything is about you, Oswego… - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 24, 16 @ 7:41 am: Oh - “Bob” - ===Apparently you and OW don’t think so.=== Yeah, you thought I did. Please stop. Seriously, lol Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.