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*** UPDATED x1 *** Challenges and withdrawals begin

Monday, Nov 9, 2009

* 2:11 pm - We’re beginning to see several challenges filed to nominating petitions today. You can watch them come in by clicking here. Post new challenges in comments if you’d like.

…Adding… You can watch the Cook County withdrawals and challenges come in by clicking here.

The petitions of Democratic lt. governor candidates Sen. Terry Link, Rep. Mike Boland and Tom Castillo have all been hit by the same person, who I believe is connected to LG candidate Scott Lee Cohen. A few legislative candidates have also been challenged so far. Keep in mind that a challenge doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody will be kicked off the ballot.

Democratic state Rep. Julie Hamos has personally filed a petition challenge against a Green Party candidate for the 10th Congressional District. This is no normal Greenie, as Hamos’ press release makes clear…

Richard Mayers, an admitted Nazi, filed for candidacy for Congress in the 10th District under the Green Party. Hamos will challenge signatures and other discrepancies on his petition.

It is clear that Mayers wants to bring his message of hate and intolerance to a significantly Jewish district. Julie Hamos is not going to let that happen.

Mayers has a history of anti-Semitic activity throughout the Chicago area. He is a member of the Creative Movement, a known hate group formerly known as the World Church of the Creator. Mayers is an associate of white supremacist Matthew Hale, founder of the World Church. Hale is currently serving a federal prison sentence for threatening a federal judge.

In 2005, Mayers attempted to organize a rally for white supremacists in Berwyn. Also that year, he was charged with destroying Holocaust-related materials at a public library in Riverside.

Hamos is the daughter of Auschwitz survivors.

* Also, a few candidates have withdrawn today, including state Rep. Annazette Collins, who bowed out of the 7th Congressional District race after incumbent Danny Davis decided to run for reelection. As expected, Ald. Ed Smith dropped out of the Collins House district contest. Collins also filed for reelection, and she’ll apparently stay in that race. Click here to watch the withdrawals and post new ones in comments if you’d like.

…Adding… There’s been some misconception in comments and elsewhere that Republican US Senate candidate Patrick Hughes withdrew. Even the Peoria paper made the mistake today

Attorney Patrick Hughes already has withdrawn his bid for the Republican nomination in the crowded race.

That line has now been corrected online…

Attorney Patrick Hughes withdrew his bid for the Republican nomination in the crowded race on a technicality issue; however, he refiled his petitions for U.S. Senate.

This happens a lot. Candidates withdraw petitions then refile other petitions. But if you don’t know what you’re doing you can easily make the mistake of thinking that a candidate has withdrawn because it says so at the State Board of Elections website. Here’s the easy way to figure it out: Just search for “active” candidates by name if you have any doubts. Hughes is still listed as an active candidate.

*** UPDATE *** Uh-oh

Northwest Side State Rep. Deb Mell may have screwed up her nominating petitions, with a real risk that she’ll be knocked off the February Democratic primary ballot.

A challenge filed Monday afternoon by an attorney for Joseph Laiacona, the only other remaining candidate in the 40th District race, contends that Ms. Mell is not registered to vote at her apparently new address. By law, all candidates are supposed to be registered at the address they use for their nominating petitions.

Ms. Mell — the sister-in-law of ousted Ex-Gov. Rod Blagojevich and the daughter of Ald. Richard Mell (33rd) — was not immediately available for comment. But the challenge was filed by Richard K. Means, one of the best election-law lawyers in the business.

“While Deborah L. Mell may reside at said address (on West Melrose Avenue), she was not on the day she swore to and signed” the official statement of candidacy that is filed with nominating petitions, the challenge states. “Because Deborah L. Mell is not a duly registered voter at the address from which she seeks to be a candidate, the nominating petitions are invalid in their entirety.”

- Posted by Rich Miller        

  1. - Team America - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:16 pm:

    Wonder how many dead people will show up on Link’s petitions this time?

  2. - Downstate GOP Faithless - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:27 pm:

    is anyone else shocked that Terry Link has issues with petitions? Also, what is the word on Stroger? I have heard he may have as many as 10K bad signatures, but I am not sure what he filed with.

  3. - Will County Woman - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:32 pm:

    With all due respect to Hamos, Mayer is entitled to his beliefs/opinions. He wasn’t going to go far, and was no threat to her. As her press release points out the 10th Congressional District is significantly Jewish.

    Sometimes you give people more attention than they deserve by bringing attention to them in the first place.

    While it is true that just his being in the race might have offended a lot of people, we cannot legislate manners. People can and probably would’ve just tuned him out.

    I’m surprised he was running as a green and not a libertarian, though.

  4. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:35 pm:

    ===Mayer is entitled to his beliefs/opinions. ===

    And so is Hamos.

    Also, Mayers is not “entitled” to a ballot position. If he screwed up his petitions, he should be gone.

  5. - WOW - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:39 pm:

    The guy who bought the paper for all the Lt. Gov candidates (except Cohen) used Cohen’s campaign address when he bought them so I would guess that yes he is associated with the campaign.

  6. - Dirt Digger - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:41 pm:

    Some challenges going on for Cook as well. Sims and Beavers are trying to clear the ballot:

  7. - Will County Woman - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:41 pm:

    I wasn’t saying that she shouldn’t go after him for substantive reasons related to his petition filings.

    If her being jewish and his being a nazi, or nazu sympathizer, is driving her decision to challenge his petitions and candidacy then that is not good on her part.

    I’d like to think that she’s better than that.

  8. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:44 pm:

    WCW, you have completely flipped your lid.

    The daughter of Holocaust survivors is supposed to turn a blind eye to a Nazi, eh?


    Also, there are obvious political implications here since the district has lots of Jewish voters.

    You need to take a time out, please.

  9. - george3 - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:49 pm:

    I love learning about state govt. from this blog and I was wondering - who typically circulates the most petitions for statewide candidates - true believer volunteers, people who owe their govt. jobs to the machine, or paid staff?

  10. - Will County Woman - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:50 pm:

    Her being the daughter of Holocaust victims nothwithstanding, in this country qualified persons have the right to run for public office no matter how repugnant their views. Unlike you, and perhaps Hamos, I have a lot of faith in the electorate on a matter like this. It is up to his opponents and the media etc. to bring his views to light, so that the electorate is aware. His repugnant views make it impossible for him to be a serious threat to her campagin/candidacy, especially in the Illinois 10th U.S. Congressional District.

  11. - hmoore3 - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:52 pm:

    WOW - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:39 pm:

    The guy who bought the paper for all the Lt. Gov candidates (except Cohen) used Cohen’s campaign address when he bought them so I would guess that yes he is associated with the campaign.


    Kevin Bartholomae works for Grainger Terry, who I believe is working Cohen’s campaign.

  12. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:53 pm:

    ===It is up to his opponents and the media etc. to bring his views to light, so that the electorate is aware===

    Yet, you also wrote…

    ===Sometimes you give people more attention than they deserve by bringing attention to them in the first place.===


  13. - Obamarama - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 2:55 pm:

    WCW, step away from the keyboard. The fact that you intro’ed a sentence with this:

    ===Her being the daughter of Holocaust victims nothwithstanding===

    is a little batty.

    Mayers is also running for committeeman on the Green ticket; there have been two objections filed against him there too.

  14. - wndycty - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:00 pm:

    WCW you wrote:

    “His repugnant views make it impossible for him to be a serious threat to her campagin/candidacy, especially in the Illinois 10th U.S. Congressional District.”

    Which means that it is very likely he does not have enough valid signatures to be on the ballot and that alone is enough justification for Hamos or anyone else to challenge his petitions.

    It would be irresponsible for anyone not to challenge someone believed to be a Nazi, especially when he is running for the nomination of left leaning party. As I said your statement alone underscores why it makes since for Hamos to challenge him.

  15. - Ghost - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:00 pm:

    Says a lot about the Green party that they support mayer as a memeber of their group.

  16. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:02 pm:

    Ghost, what evidence do you have that the Greens support this guy? Anybody can file for office for any party, as long as they follow the rules.

  17. - Chicago Cynic - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:05 pm:


    Adopting your approach, Hamos should let him remain on the ballot so rather than discussing relevant issues in the campaign they spend the whole time dealing with the issues surrounding a Nazi? Umm, that would be both dumb and counterproductive for the voters. If she can bump him, she should bump him.

  18. - Chicago Cynic - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:06 pm:

    Anybody know what happened to Andrea Raila? She was the only “independent candidate for Cook County Assessor. It shows she withdrew, but doesn’t show that she refiled unless I’m missing something.

  19. - Obamarama - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:07 pm:

    ===Says a lot about the Green party that they support mayer as a memeber of their group.===

    They don’t. Everytime he tries to run the Township Greens challenge his petitions–including this time around.

  20. - Secret Square - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:10 pm:

    Ghost, I’m sure the Green Party hates Illinois Nazis just as much if not more than the Blues Brothers did :-)

  21. - Will County Woman - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:18 pm:

    You’re right to note the contradictions, but you didn’t put what them into the full context in which the statements were made. The reason why she or the media would bring out his Nazism is because presumably as a candidate he and she would be talking issues/policy and no doubt his being a Nazi forms his opinions on policy related matters.

    last time I checked in this country we didn’t have special rights for Holocaust victims or their children and everybody else. Last time I checked we all have/enjoy the same basic rights in this country.

    Some arab-American or someone else could turn around and use the fact that she is Jewish as a driver to challenge her candidacy/campaign. That would be wrong.

    The press release identitfies him as being a Nazi. If the problem is the legitimacy of his petitions then his being a Nazi is not relevant, which is why she should not have made an issue of it.

  22. - wordslinger - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:19 pm:

    Obamarama, it’s good to hear that the Greenies up north are doing their bit.

    There are plenty of Greenies here in Oak Park, and I can’t imagine they wouldn’t try to keep an anti-Semitic Fascist from hijacking their party line.

    If the Greens want to be taken seriously, and the ones I know do, they have to stamp out these losers with every tactic available.

    Case in point: The Dems ignoring the LaRouchies in ‘86.

  23. - Ghost - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:20 pm:

    Rich, and the Green party can very publicly say they do not support Mayer. The silence so far is deafening.

  24. - Pot calling kettle - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:25 pm:

    ==who typically circulates the most petitions for statewide candidates==

    All of those you listed, plus the candidates often circulate their own. The mix depends on the candidate. I have discovered it is easier to get signatures on your own petitions than of those you circulate for others, and the quality control is better. Even well-intentioned circulators often don’t take the time to make sure that all the signers are eligible.

  25. - TaxThePoor? - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:28 pm:

    “I’m surprised he was running as a green and not a libertarian, though.”

    Did you think about that at all before typing it?

    Do Libertarians have ballot access as an established party? No. Are Libertarians Nazis or anywhere close to Nazis, let alone any more similar to Nazis than Greens? No. Has Mayers or any other Nazis ran as Libertarians in Illinois? No, some have tried to run as Democrats and Republicans and now Greens because its easier though.

    Will County Woman, what could possibly make you think a Nazi would run as a Libertarian ahead of a Green, Democrat, Republican, or other, especially when Libertarians are not an established party and the Greens are?

    Hamos should use every honest, legal means she can to go after this guy, and I’m the biggest hater of petition challenges you will find. This guy is being dishonest from the get go running as Green, so he gets little sympathy from me. He’d run as a straight up Nazi if he wasn’t a, well, Nazi.

    Although, having Nazis on the ballot isn’t the end of the world. We’ve had lots of Nazis on Americans ballots. Fewer and fewer as time goes on, luckily.

    I’d rather live in a country to allows Nazis on the ballot IF they do it honestly and legally than a country that decides which political parties and ideas are allowed and which ones are not.

  26. - shore - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:32 pm:

    Hamos shot herself in the foot over the weekend when she ran that healthcare ad. now seals can hit her on abortion arguing that she would have supported a vote that took away federal funding for abortion.

  27. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:34 pm:

    shore and others, your personal opinion about a candidate’s stance on a particular issue does not mean it is the same as the majority of voters - if they actually care.

    Just a reminder.

  28. - Stan Darsh - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:34 pm:

    The political gurus at the PJ Star didn’t know what they were talking about? I’m shocked.

  29. - TaxThePoor? - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:37 pm:

    “Says a lot about the Green party that they support mayer as a memeber of their group.”

    What? Says a lot about your level of knowledge of the Green Party that you would say that. Not to mention history.

    Ghost, read up on the history of the 1986 Democratic primary in Illinois. LaRouche candidates WON the statewide primary for Lt. Governor and Comptroller(?). David Duke ran as a Republican. And on and on. You are way off base.

    The Green Party has not been silent, you’ve chosen not to pay enough attention to them to notice. If he stays on the ballot and wins their primary, like LaRouche Democrats in 1986, you may have a point then.

  30. - Scott Summers - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:45 pm:

    Mr. Mayers is not a member of the Illinois Green Party.

    Earlier today, objections were filed to the nominating papers submitted by Mr. Mayers.

    I expect that a formal statement from Illinois Green Party officials will be forthcoming.

  31. - train111 - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:46 pm:

    So in the 32nd Representative Andre Thapedi has filed a challenge to each of his opponents, then one of the opponents filed a challenge to the other opponents, and someone else has filed a challenge to Thapedi.
    So if everybody gets knocked off the ballot, then the person with the greatest number of write-ins wins?? Shear ridiculousness the way this system works!!!!


  32. - Pot calling kettle - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:48 pm:

    Maybe if the rules weren’t so restrictive for third party candidates, more candidates would file under the proper heading.

  33. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:48 pm:

    ===So if everybody gets knocked off the ballot, then the person with the greatest number of write-ins wins?===

    No. The committeemen will likely elect somebody to the ballot.

  34. - soccermom - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:49 pm:

    Wordslinger, thanks for bringing up the LaRouche thing in the Democratic primaries in 1986. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

  35. - TaxThePoor? - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:50 pm:

    wordslinger, don’t forget about the media’s involvement in 1986 also. If we had news stories about this Nazi running as a Green we’d hopefully also have statements from Green Party leaders in the news saying this guy is a dishonest Nazi trying to use their ballot line, if that isn’t already obvious to anyone paying attention.

  36. - Rich Miller - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 3:54 pm:

    Pot, by your logic we should make it easier to allow the Nazi Party onto the ballot so this guy doesn’t run as a Greenie?

  37. - TaxThePoor? - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:01 pm:

    Rich, that logic isn’t as crazy as it appears on its surface. How many in Illinois would sign a petition to form a new Nazi Party and run candidates under their banner? Less than people willing to sign a Green petition I would think.

    Less restrictive ballot access laws would indeed result is fewer “stealth” candidacies I think.

  38. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:08 pm:

    Nazi or not, merely running as a Green Party candidate, he may have gotten 1-3% of the vote in the 10th district, enough to affect the outcome.

    Good for Hamos. Coulson and Seals are asleep at the wheel.

  39. - George - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:11 pm:

    So, no Stroger challenge, yet?

  40. - OdysseusVL - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:16 pm:

    Looks like Ken Dunkin is up to his old ways. “Somebody” has challenged Gwen Drake and Dave Schroeder. That’s a waste of time against Schroeder who should defeat that easily enough. Dunkin is going to have opponents, which will happen when you call the Blago investigation a witch hunt.

  41. - Will County Woman - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:18 pm:

    “Do Libertarians have ballot access as an established party? “—Tax the Poor

    Thank you for answering that question. I didn’t know that technicality/rule about established parties.

    You aren’t really interested why I thought that the Libertarian label would fit Mayer better, are you? I don’t think you are, so I am not going to answer that for you.

    And, for your own health and well-being, don’t get so worked up just because other people may have views that (seemingly) differ from your own. You and I are not in total disagreement. If you give me a chance, you might find that you actually agree with me and that my views aren’t all wrong. If nothing else, we can always just agree to disagree.

  42. - OdysseusVL - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:18 pm:

    Ed Scanlan’s have been challenged. No shocker there. But why bother?

  43. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:19 pm:

    um, TTP, you’re exactly, precisely, 180 degrees WRONG.

    The fact that an admitted Nazi could find himself on the ballot is an argument that the petition requirements aren’t restrictive enough.

    Loosening the requirements would make it MORE difficult for stalwarts like Julie Hamos to challenge their candidacy and remove them from the ballot.

    Richard Mayers is the reason we have petition laws, and apparently they still aren’t stringent enough, because even a Nazi running on the Green Party ticket can get more than 1 signature.

  44. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:27 pm:

    WCW -

    Nazis couldn’t be less Libertarian.

    Nazis are right-wing totalitarians (as opposed to communist, left-wing totalitarians), who subjugate individual liberty for the good of the state.

    Nazis are ant colonies, where libertarians are more like flocks of penguins.

  45. - Obamarama - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:33 pm:

    Re: Mell. How in the heck does no one in her camp catch that?

  46. - A Citizen - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:34 pm:

    Ants are pests, penguins are cute - Oh Look, there’s a Kitty.

  47. - Carl Nyberg - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:36 pm:

    Back when Richard Mayer was trying to knock people off the ballot in an earlier election cycle, some of the local Greens brought me his filings. Mayer had also filed to run, but the challenges were juicy kooky.

    He’s clearly a bigoted when it comes to ethnic issues.

    But I came to the conclusion the guy is mentally ill and lacks an effective social support network.

    While he may be offensive, he’s mostly to be pitied.

    He’s not a nascent movement. He’s someone with a sickness; he says things that are offensive to mainstream sensibilities. I suspect he is a challenge for his family.

    Please don’t dwell on him as anything but an example of someone who is sick. That’s what he is.

  48. - Carl Nyberg - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:37 pm:

    Not to be legalistic, but don’t you have to be a resident of the district to challenge nominating petitions?

    IIRC, Hamos doesn’t live in the district. Some who resides in IL-10 should do the challenge.

  49. - OdysseusVL - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:40 pm:

    Hendon is out of the 7th Cong. race. So far, I didn’t see Fioretti out though. Wonder if he’s going to do the challenge.

  50. - George - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:45 pm:

    Don’t see the Mell challenge up on the site yet, but I guess you have to assume it was filed and just not up yet.

  51. - Obamarama - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:48 pm:

    Boland’s signatures have been challenged by Robert Juarez of Moline.

  52. - quicknote - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:55 pm:

    Hamos moved into the district back in September. See and scroll down to IL-10 section.

  53. - OdysseusVL - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 4:55 pm:

    Fioretti is now out of C7. Too bad. That would have been interesting. More than a few people on the eastern side of that district are not too fond of Danny Davis.

  54. - TaxThePoor? - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:01 pm:

    Yellow Dog, you’re way off. Other states and countries with less restrictive ballot access laws than Illinois are not crawling with Nazis. If he couldn’t run as a Green, he’d do it as a Democrat or Republican.

    Limiting democracy even more for everyone else in order to keep a few Nazis off the ballot makes as much sense as making it 10,000 times harder for a Democrat to get on the ballot because a lot of Democrats have been convicted of political corruption.

  55. - VanillaMan - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:03 pm:

    Gee you would think that someone in the Mell family might know a thing or two about filing petitions, wouldn’t you? How could something so elemental be overlooked?

    Or, is it because she is a member of the Mell family, that she didn’t think the rules applied to her? Sometimes having everything done for you makes you unaware of those vitally important basics like petition filing and addresses.

    Either way, her little team looks pretty sloppy. If this is how they do things, perhaps voters should consider someone to elect that knows the basics. She really has no excuses here.

    We’ve had lots of Nazis on Americans ballots. Fewer and fewer as time goes on, luckily.

    Why would someone think this? Most people who lived during WWII fought the Nazis, not embraced them. We’ve had lots? Really? How many are lots, and why would anyone make such a claim? Fewer as time goes on? Why would that be? The people who claim to be Nazis are too young to have actually witnessed Nazi Germany, so what would cause them to become fewer in number, as this statement claims? If we can see morons wearing brownshirts in Zion twenty years ago, we can reasonably consider seeing morons wearing brownshirts in the future. Because they are morons, right?

    In this particular case, this moron is running as a Green Party member. That’s rather insulting, and doesn’t reflect anything regarding the Green Party. If I recall correctly, the Democrats had LaRouchies kidnap a few statewide nominations from them. Did anyone say these fake Democrats reflected the actual beliefs of the Democratic Party? No, they didn’t.

    My problem with Hamos isn’t over what she is, it is over where she stands on activist overspending government policies. With this mess, she gets to change the subject from her ridiculous political stands to this.

  56. - Don't Worry, Be Happy - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:10 pm:

    Stroger’s been challenged.

  57. - ZC - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:19 pm:

    It doesn’t matter whether Hamos lives in the district or not, for a U.S. House seat race.

    The Constitution has been interpreted very clearly on this. It may be a political challenge, if she doesn’t live there, but it has no bearing on whether or not she gets on the ballot.

  58. - The Pope of Chili Town - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:24 pm:

    Only Democratic candidates have submitted petitions in the 40th Rep District. If Deb Mell gets kicked off watch other Parties place candidates in the race.

  59. - Red & Green - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:29 pm:

    Yellow Dog, Nazis (at least the 40s German kind) were not right-wing totalitarians; they were left-wing totalitarians. They believed in nationalizing core industries while supervising management of them but allowing some private initiative. They attacked religious people, particularly Catholics. The future Pope John Paul II had to go to a secret seminary in Poland because oine could be sentenced to death for openly studying for the priesthood. They tolerated Lutherans because there were so many, but still harassed them. Religiously, they were a pagan state. They were a centralized government that regulated nearly every aspect of peoples personal and business lives. They persecuted Jews, gypsies and the mentally and physically disabled - believing that everyone’s value was related solely to what they could produce for the state. I’m not sure exactly how they got commonly tagged among non-historians as a right-wing movement. It’s probably because they were not quite as far left as the Soviet Union - and were more chauvinistically nationalistic. But it was a decidedly left-wing movement. Particularly in the early days of Nazism, American and Britsh left-wing journals wrote admiringly of the Nazi governmental system and the Nazi commitment to eugenics (Planned Parenthood was particularly taken with what it considered Nazi Germany’s enlightened and practical approach). The admiration for eugenics should not be confused with any admiration for Nazi death camps - no group was admiring of that. We conservatives, of course, believe that admiration for the principles of eugenics, by any name, carries with it the peril that it will ultimately lead to death panels regardless of the earnest intentions of initial advocates. But however you examine, Nazism was a phenomenon of the left, not the right.

  60. - irv & ashland - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:37 pm:

    red & green,

    No doubt Nazis got “tagged” as a right-wing movement because overwhelmingly, the people who voted for them, sympathized with them, and enabled their ascent to the rulership of Germany were right wingers.

    A little historical knowledge can make for some pretty ridiculous posts. Sheesh.

  61. - Thomas Westgard - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:45 pm:

    Regarding the propriety of Hamos moving to knock the Nazi off the ballot - I have spoken with multiple candidates over many elections who choose not to knock an opposing candidate off the ballot because they want to have a conversation about issues of concern to the majority of voters in the ward. I haven’t spoken with Hamos about this particular one, but I don’t see a point in this election being used to argue whether Jews are fully human or whether the Holocaust happened. All of us in the district have already answered those questions to our satisfaction and would prefer that other, more questionable matters be debated.

  62. - wordslinger - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 5:57 pm:

    Red and Green, that’s a very superficial and, I suspect, somehow self-serving account of the origins of Nazism in Germany in regards to “left” and “right” on the political spectrum.

    The Thyssens and Krupps were hardly left-wingers. Once they picked up popular support, the Nazis picked up a lot of big-time, right-wing capital backers in Germany, and in other Fascist movements in the West.

  63. - MrJM - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 6:12 pm:


    Although Hamos does NOT have to live in the district to run for the seat, the statute says she DOES need to live in the district to be a qualified objector to another candidate’s petitions.

    Who says the law is an ass?

    – MrJM

  64. - Willie Stark - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 7:06 pm:

    Wordslinger, Red & Green is just recycling what he read off Jonah Goldberg.

  65. - wordslinger - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 7:29 pm:

    Willi, re-reading what I wrote, I think I can make it clearer: Fascist movements in the West had significant support among right-wing, uber-capitalists. And there were plenty of Stalin apologists among left-wing elements in the West.

    People need to read and understand what a near thing The Depression and WWII were to the survival of what we would call today democratic capitalism.

    FDR and Churchill kept their nerves while plenty of big-shots on both ends of the spectrum lost theirs and saw only a choice betweeen Fascism and Communism.

  66. - Willie Stark - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 8:22 pm:

    Wordslinger: well said. Not that you need it, but for anyone else who might care, Jonathan Alter’s The Defining Moment is a good generalist introduction to that time and the magnitude of the crisis confronting Roosevelt.

    Lest Rich accuse us of hijacking the thread, though, let me just observe that Deb Mell is going to be fine (and so will Rich Means, making a little scratch from his pigeon):

    IL Constitution: Article 4, Section 2
    (c) To be eligible to serve as a member of the General Assembly, a person must be a United States citizen, at least 21 years old, and for the two years preceding his election or appointment a resident of the district which he is to represent.

  67. - Red & Green - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 8:26 pm:

    No, I haven’t read Jonah Goldberg’s book, though I heard it was excellent. I knew this stuff long ago. There were indeed, some right-wing collaborators with Hitler but they were primarily industrialists who made an unholy alliance with the govt. They collaborated for business reasons, not ideological ones. Almost all the early enthusiasm for national socialism came from the left. In Great Britain, the politicians who came to be fascist sympathizers and collaboraters almost all came from the Labour Party. The most prominent American early sympathizer was the Ambassador to Great Britain, Joseph Kennedy. In Europe, the fascist movement (except, anomalously, in Spain) the fascist movement was a leftist movement. Franco was an authentic fascist - and an authentic right-winger. But he was the exception.

    It makes for a neat balancing act to call communism the totalitarianism of the left and fascism the totalitarianism of the right, but it just does not work. Fascism and communism were a case of left and lefterer. In order to make the left-right dichotomy work one has to completely ignore the actual ideological basis of fascism.

    This is not to tar anyone who supports the centralized government control envisaged in both systems as endorsing the death camps of Germany. That had little to do with the system and was some virulent national sickness that had very little to do with any political ideology. Totalitarian utopias, though, almost always fail and blame their failures on some sort of sabotage by internal enemies, who are first de-legitimatized, then de-humanized, and usually end up in internment camps or in show trials before the system collapses. So mass executions become common in such states if they reach a terminal stage, but Germany was odd because of the racial nature of much of its exterminations.

  68. - Will County Woman - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 8:48 pm:

    Rich, I apologize for this thread taking a turn from present-day Illinois politics.

    Hynes is challenging Scanlan’s petitons and someone who has yet to be named is challenging Dock Walls.’

  69. - What the Hell...Let's Slate Mell !!! - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 9:11 pm:

    Mell can potentially keep her seat by getting slated by one of the other parties after the primary.

    (Just a little touch of dry humor for you. Of course you know that thanks to Mell’s vote for HB 723, slating state legislative candidates is now nearly impossible. I’m glad to see it’s already having unintended consequences…it was designed to keep challengers off the ballot, but here we see it keeping an incumbent off the ballot. Way to go!)

  70. - Pot calling kettle - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 10:59 pm:

    Rich: Yes, the rules for getting on the ballot should be loosened for “third” parties and for independents.

    Right now, the state doesn’t restrict people from claiming to be a Republican or Democrat (or, now, a Green) and then getting lower signature requirements. This encourages potential candidates to run in parties to which they do not belong. I would much rather have a Nazi Party member try to collect signatures as such, and, if they can collect the signatures, get on the ballot under the appropriate heading.

    The current system was designed to force all candidates to run as a Republican or Democrat. I fail to see how that is democratic. (The Greens getting in as an established party was an unforseen fluke.)

    Signature requirements to run for Congress in the 10th CD are as follows: 952 (Dem), 570 (Repub), 23 (Green, yes that’s 23), 15,002 (Indy or new party). It is clear why the Nazi chose to run as a Green.

    Lower on the ballot, to run for Illinois House in any district, an R, D, or G needs 500 signatures, while an indy or “new party” candidate needs anywhere from 770 to over 4,000! Not exactly fair access!

  71. - real - Monday, Nov 9, 09 @ 11:30 pm:

    “The Greens getting in as an established party was an unforseen fluke”

    Thank you Rod Blagojevich.

  72. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 10, 09 @ 7:45 am:

    ===Also, Mayers is not “entitled” to a ballot position. If he screwed up his petitions, he should be gone.===

    He’s not really a member of the Green Party. He should be gone for that reason alone. Too bad state election law violates political parties’ constitutional right to freedom of association, which includes the right not to associate. If a candidate like this does their paperwork correctly, in reality the party has no way to prevent the candidate from using their party label. That’s wrong. A political party is a private voluntary association and has the right to choose its own standard bearers.

    ===Says a lot about the Green party that they support mayer as a memeber of their group.===

    The Green Party does NOT support Mayer. He’s attempting to steal the party’s ballot line.

    ===Rich, and the Green party can very publicly say they do not support Mayer. The silence so far is deafening.===

    The Green Party is doing exactly what you and Rich discussed above–not giving him more publicity than necessary. I call your attention to the following quotes from a previous election cycle, which sums up the party’s position pretty well:

    “Illinois Green Party spokesperson Phil Huckleberry was happy that Mayers was removed from the ballot.”

    “We felt that it was not appropriate for him to be on the ballot, because he is not a member of the Green Party and his views are dramatically inconsistent with those of Green Party values”

    ===Pot, by your logic we should make it easier to allow the Nazi Party onto the ballot so this guy doesn’t run as a Greenie?===

    I think ballot access should be equal for all candidates, regardless of party. Let the voters decide. We have to put our faith in democracy.

    ===Not to be legalistic, but don’t you have to be a resident of the district to challenge nominating petitions?===

    According to Illinois election law, I believe that is correct. In fact, if a smaller established party, like the Green Party, doesn’t yet have any members in a particular district, Illinois election law provides them with no mechanism to challenge candidates like this trying to steal their ballot line.

    Regarding Nazis being on the right, let’s not forget that they were stridently anti-communist and rode to power with the backing of the rich elite who thought they would serve a useful purpose in getting the communists out of Germany.

  73. - Downstate GOP Faithless - Tuesday, Nov 10, 09 @ 8:42 am:

    I hate Illinois Nazi’s

  74. - Secret Square - Tuesday, Nov 10, 09 @ 8:57 am:

    With regard to fascism vs. communism, I see them as ideologies that go so far off to the right and the left that they come full circle and end up in the same (very bad) place :-)

  75. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Nov 10, 09 @ 9:30 am:

    ==I hate Illinois Nazis==

    Which is exactly why they should appear on the ballot as such.

  76. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 10, 09 @ 10:10 pm:

    Anonymous 7:45, can you PLEASE get another handle. Thank you!

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.

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