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State split on immigration
Friday, Dec 16, 2005 - Posted by Rich Miller A new SurveyUSA poll shows that a slight majority of Illinoisans think that immigrants do jobs that Americans don’t want.
43 percent of Illinoisans chose “one,” while 52 percent said “two.” That’s almost the same as the nationally weighted average of 42/53. Notice, though, that the question didn’t ask about illegal immigrants. Just immigrants in general. Also, SurveyUSA didn’t ask whether people believed that access to cheap immigrant labor keeps wages down.
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- The Broken Heart - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 5:03 am:
52/53 percent polled were immigrants.
- Sheesh - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 6:33 am:
In another SurveyUSA poll:
Number of people called that answered our question: 2%
Number of people that hung up on us: 23%
Number of people that did not answer their phone when we called: 75%
Margin of error +/- 4%
- WAY DOWNSTATE - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 6:38 am:
There is a contactor that sets his bids and wages way below union scale so he can use them.He has been caught twice with some illegals in his group and nothing was done.He claims he can work them harder,longer and cheaper than other workers.Some of them live 2 or 3 families to a small house trailer.
- Sheesh - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 6:46 am:
Also, I am glad someone figured out a way to summarize the complex immigration argument into two simple statements:
Immigrants take jobs away from Americans
Immigrants do jobs that Americans don’t want
Survey USA has neatly wrapped centuries of economic debate into 13 simple words. You expect us to take the results of this questions seriously? This is like asking the question “Who is a better leader, Hitler or Stalin?” “Ooh…I hate Hitler, so I pick Stalin!”
But I am sure the politicians will see this data, draw all sorts of conclusions from it, and change campaign direction appropriately.
Sheesh
- Tertius - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 6:50 am:
Seems an easy distinction to me:
> Immigrants take jobs Americans don’t want.
> Outsourcing takes away jobs Americans DO want.
I guess that’s the corporate rationale for outsourcing! We should all thank the wise, beneficent masters at AT & T, Bank One and others for their tireless work in the war against immigration!
- Anonymous - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 6:59 am:
It is total political garbage. Republican Congressional campaign leaders have been pretty open about saying that “illegal immigration” scares would be the “gay marriage” issue of the Nov.06 congressional elections. It is a nice wedge for just enough congressonal districts.
We will be hearing a lot about this on Fox - unless they can relaunch the War-On-Christams garbage next fall or some odd Terry Schiavo issue emerges. Weapons-Of-Mass-Distraction.
- Anon - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 7:32 am:
Sheesh, I think you make a bad comparison of immigrants to dictators. Immigrants, for the most part, are contributing to society and are not the cause of the problems of America’s workforce problems, but instead a symptom. American business, as correctly pinted out by Tertius, is the cause of America’s workforce problems.
- Beowulf - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 7:51 am:
Three comments:1) The operative word “illegal” immigrants was left out. 2) A friend of mine is a brick mason and owns his own company. He prefers Hispanic workers because they are far more productive workers than the other guys that he gets out of the union hall. Another big plus is that they never whine about anything.
3) Other masonry competitors are able to outbid him on small jobs because they have Polish workers that are willing to work for less than union wages. The unions look the other way about it because they are the smaller jobs. The Polish workers time cards may show that they worked a 30 hour week when in fact they worked 40 hours. They are happy to get the job so they accept working for less money.
- Pat Hickey - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 7:51 am:
Trade Unions historically allowed immigrants the only opportunity to share in the American Dream. When the Meatpackers Strike hit Chicago in 1905, Packing House Owners offered railroad tickets, substandard housing, and low wages to Black sharcroppers in the south, sparking the Great Migration. Immigrants who had formed Unions were now locked out and pitted against Black Americans for jobs.
Because of the profit driven motives of American business and the artificially constructed ‘competition
between Black Americans and Immigrant Americans, it took decades for those same Unions to bring Black Americans into collective bargaining organizations, but the profits had already been made by the Cudahy, Armour, Pullman, Rockefellar, Carnegie, and Dupont families.
Today, with the industrial culture all but evaporated by American business - who makes Nike; who makes Van Huisen; who makes anything?
People in other countries.
Unions alone will help immigrants become Americans.
- Cal Skinner - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 8:06 am:
No question about whether taxpayers should finance the health care of all kids, I see.
- Pat Collins - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 8:40 am:
This is one of those things that ALWAYS draws a repsonse if I mention it in line at the grocery store, etc….
People on both sides think there is too much immigration, and want less. Cracking down on illegals is just the first part.
In many ways, immigration is like growth. A little, spread out over time is OK.
A bunch, all at once, is a problem.
Gun Ban’s recent pandering to Illegals (All Kids, house loans) will really backfire IF the Repub nominee had the guts to use it.
Jim O, will, no doubt. Will Judy? I don’t think so, and it will cost her.
- Pat Collins - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 8:41 am:
And, of course, it’s not Jobs Americans wont’ do, it’s wages that Americans can’t accept.
After all, these jobs got done somehow 1930~1970 when immigration was quite limited….
- So-Called "Austin Mayor" - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 9:03 am:
I’ll pick door number three.
“Three: Illegal immigrants take jobs that Americans don’t want to do for the artificially low wages that employers pay to illegal immigrants.”
If we learn nothing else from “Fear Factor”, we should learn that Americans will do ANYTHING if they are sufficiently compensated for doing it.
- zatoichi - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 9:18 am:
“Which of these 3 statements do you agree with more:
One: More companies outsourcing jobs over-seas take jobs away from Americans.
Two: Over-seas workers do jobs that Americans don’t want.
Three: After the layoff, my new service job allows me to buy over-seas products at low Wal-Mart prices.”
- Truthful James - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 11:08 am:
There are market clearing wages for any job.
In the Gray Market (cash transactions) worlkers kept off the books have a minimum wage equal to the federal minimum wage offset to reflect the taxation of employer and employee,
In the absence of illegal aliens, the market clearing wage will be higher tan the current one for any job. This will place a one time price increase on goods and services — unless competition squeezes profits and reduces prices.
A one time price increase will clearly inhibit the demand for a good or a service. This is mitigated by the avilability of an alternativce to satisfy the same need and by the choice to use discretionary income for this need.
In the Open Market, wages contribute to paying the cost of government through withholding taxes. How do illegals pay for government services?
- The Colonel - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 1:42 pm:
The “illegals” work cheaper than anybody, don’t (and can’t) complain and that’s just the way many corporate fat-cats like it.
They help keep wages way down for even the immigrants who are here legally, and way, way, WAY down for American citizens.
They do the work “no one else would do” becasue they work for nothing. If they weren’t here, the fat-cats would have to pay more to get it done.
So illegal aliens hurt everybody, including themselves, and set the stage to insure they will continue to be preyed upon.
And hypocrites like Blago and Daley, supposedly the ‘friends’ of aliens, don’t enforce prevailing wage laws. And similar RINO’s like Brady and Rauschenberger vote against toughening them up.
- grand old partisan - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 3:45 pm:
When you say that illegal immigrants are doing jobs that Americans don’t want, aren’t you implicitly admitting that at least some of the populations that is unemployed is so by choice?
- 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 4:03 pm:
Truthful James: I think it’s fair to say that illegal immigrants pay sales taxes, property taxes, tolls, fees etc. And the fact they may not pay income tax or that there is no withholding, points to a problem with the employers. How come no one ever talks about Illegal Employers in this context?
The scape-goating on this issue is a time-tested political ploy, divisive and misleading and ultimately doesn’t address any of the real issues. Fences, vigilantes, tough talk in Congress and elsewhere, it makes for great theater. But none of this addresses the actual problem: the economy is evolving and we can’t control the impact of that change. Industrial jobs moved from the rust belt to the sun belt to overseas. Capital follows the path of cheap labor. Always has, always will.
I can wish it wasn’t so, but I don’t want to pay $10 for a tomato either.
- Pat Collins - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 4:03 pm:
some of the populations that is unemployed is so by choice
It’s saying that some Americans dont’ want to overcrowd several families into one house.
And in general they’d rather NOT have a 3rd world living standard.
I do hope that MANDATORY emplyer verification got passed by the house today….
- The Colonel - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 4:07 pm:
Not “don’t want” …but “won’t work at for nothing.” Big difference.
When you add up all your costs in transportation etc, why work at a dead end job that exploits you and pays nothing, and leaves you deeper in the hole.
I’ve had a number of jobs I didn’t want, but they paid OK and it was worth-my-while to stick it out.
And you are ALWAYS going to have some sloths who don’t want to work no matter what — they come in all shapes and sizes.
- Team Sleep - Friday, Dec 16, 05 @ 5:13 pm:
GOP is correct. Too many people in America think that they are above doing jobs that illegals do. Why? Because they are “demeaning” and “don’t pay enough”. Simply put, they prefer to not do anything for the same amount of money. Then again, the disability system works in the same manner, although that’s more of a “hush-hush” ordeal.
- Cassandra - Sunday, Dec 18, 05 @ 1:35 pm:
In Illinois currently, whether already or in the near future, illegal aliens receive at least the following benefits: low cost or free health insurance for their children (born here or not), in-state tuition at state universities and low cost housing loans.
True, they contribute to the tax coffers, but not much, as many work off the books and most work very low paying jobs even if taxed.
What is surprising is why there are not more illegals here. If someone told me I could go somewhere and get triple or more my salary, free health benefits for my kids, easy money for housing and my kids could go to a high-quality university system at minimal cost, I would strongly consider it. Especially if all I had to do was make a quick and relatively risk free dash across the border.
Given the extent and cost of benefits allowed to illegals already in states like Illinois, it’s belated to talk about immigration issues. In practical terms the debate is over, all the histrionics about improving border security notwithstanding.
Is that what we wanted? If not, that’s another reason to keep a very very close eye on what the
state Legislature and the administration of the moment are doing.