37 Comments - AnyPerson - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 7:43 am: This sounds like reasonable immigration policy. - DOWNSTATE - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 7:53 am: Why isn’t deporting an option?They do it all the time.Why has the state allowed itself to get in this position?All these give aways is just an invitation for more illegals to come here.How can a state over ride federal law and approve illegal immigration.We need to take a tougher stand on this like other states. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 8:41 am: Of course, giving Illegals drivers licenses means that IL ones CAN NOT be used as IDs to get on planes. Did anyone remind him of this? You need not deport them. Sue the companies where they work, perp walk the CEOs and owenrs, and you’ll find them out of a job. Then they deport themselves. It happened in Kansas when INS deported 400. anouthe 2~3000 left town. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 8:46 am: How “in play” is this race? It will be interesting to see just how this affects that race. - southernilrepub - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:01 am: Oberweis will just hire them to work in his diary, because he is the “ethical king” as he alluded to. - Wile Coyote - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:22 am: 500,000? Where? In the country, the State? Surely, not in their district? All politics is local. Aren’t there bigger issues for the 56th District than worrying about national illegal immigration problems? - Skeeter - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:31 am: Those words could NOT have come from Rep. Froehlich. They were calm and rational and they were a serious attempt to deal with a complex issue. Under his plan, we would acknowledge that simply deporting all illegal migrants is not a solution, but we would still have a method for documenting them and making a step towards preventing terrorism. Is Rep. Froehlich now turning into some version of Orrin Hatch — a former wingnut turned learned statesman? If he continues this, who will the Democrats have to point to as threats to basic American values? Where are the fine voices of irrationality that have brought the ILGOP to its current condition? Where are Bill Brady and Jill Stanek when their party most needs them? Please, Bill and Jill, put a stop to this madness! - Anon - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:37 am: That reporter should seriously check his facts. As of the 2000 census, there were around 500,000 LATINOS in the city of Chicago (this includes all nationalities, like Puerto Ricans who are citizens). There are approximately 1 million LAtinos in the six-county Chicagoland area. I doubt that there are 500,000 undocumented people in the whole state. Talk about tarring everybody; Is the “journalist” related to Obie or what? - Cassandra - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:42 am: Common sense would suggest that if they are here, we might as well test them and make sure they can drive. However, there must be some international standards on this. What happens if I go to Germany, overstay whatever the tourist period is, and then go in and try to get a German drivers license. Or France? Or China. Somehow, I doubt it would be that easy. Maybe higher fees, a more stringent background check, or maybe I’d get chucked out. Whatever the standards are, it shouldn’t be easier in the US. Somebody in our underworked state government should be researching this. America prides itself on its diversity but the reality is that we already have a Diversity Visa Program (a lottery, I think) which allows foreigners to come here and legally and eventually progress to citizenship. The program was profiled in the New Yorker last week. About 2 million applications for 60,000 visas annually if I remember correctly. Why not increase the number of diversity visas and make immigration truly legal and truly diverse, instead of heavily skewed towards one or two countries. Why not more immigrants from Asia, Africa, the Middle East. At the end of the day, Mexico and Guatemala have to fix their own employment problems and find jobs for their people. And America needs to foster true diversity, not, as is currently the case, illegal economic migration. - anon - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:47 am: Why would any illegal / undocumented worker go get one of these if they are going to fingerprint and do a background check? In our industry all of the workers have paperwork, either ID’s or green cards. But even then many are loath to participate in any programs that have to do with anything official (health insurance, reporting crimes, getting a library card). I don’t understand who would go get these. - Truthful James - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 10:01 am: I continue to be amazed that the the legal Hispanic immigrants do not openly oppose the presence of illegal aliens — nor do the African Americans. The illegals create downward pressure on wages for jobs the green card and citizen residents would fill. Now do not go all soft and say that the illegals perform jobs unwanted by any other and in so doing they hold down the price of goods and service. Business owners are pleased to pay cash wages, depress the reported amount of sales and pay lower sales and income taxes and the detail required in withholding plus the employer contribution to FICA and FUTA. What we unfortunately have is a large and growing gray market in which cash wages are paid and not recorded. For every job — regardless of the rhetoric — there is a market clearing wage. Including that wage in the price of goods and srvices would probably inflate prices on a one time basis. But at the same time, the proper reporting of revenue and income, the addiitional support for social security and FUTA would relieve the general burden on taxpayers. Coupled with the return of savings to the home country instead of investing here, the payments to illegal aliens affect the general economic health of this country. - DOWNSTATE - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 10:32 am: Things have gotten so bad in Arizona that they are wanting to use the National Guard.We do not need that here.I agree with Cassandra that there should be a diverisity program.The problem with that is Germans,Italians,Africans or any other nationality can’t walk across the border.We need a get tough policy instead of a welcome mat. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 10:37 am: From the US Census. Us pop = 296 Million, IL is 12.7 Million. There are 41 million hispanics in the US. estimates of illegals are 10 million (LOW END) 10/41 = 24%. 24% applied to IL his. of 13.4 = 3.35% That’s 425,000. So 500K for all of IL is a reasonable number. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 10:54 am: Let’s return to the point of this Question. “If the federal government ever decides to do something about illegal immigration, we’ll already have something in place,” he said. So this entire argument is over possible remedies to a possible issue that voters really don’t need to concern themselves with at this point, right? This is not an argument over immigration. This is not an argument about Latinos. This is not an argument about anything that resonates with voters in this district. So, exactly why is this being discussed at all? - donchicago48 - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:14 am: The INS estimated in February 2003 that there were 432,000 illegal aliens residing in Illinois. This was more than double the INS estimate of 176,000 illegal immigrants in Illinois in October 1992 and half again the estimate of 290,000 illegal residents as of October 1996. Much of this increase was because the INS increased its estimate of the size of the Mexican illegal immigrant population. The current INS estimate indicates that Illinois has the fourth largest illegal alien population in the country. Based upon the new 2000 Census data, the Migration Policy Institute issued study in May 2002 that estimated Illinois’ illegal alien population at 500,000 The Pew Hispanic Center estimated in March 2005 that the illegal alien population in Illinois was 400,000 in 2004. - donchicago48 - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:15 am: Illinois has received partial compensation under the federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) that was established in 1994 to compensate the states and local jurisdictions for incarceration of “undocumented,” aliens who are serving time for a felony conviction or at least two misdemeanors. The recent SCAAP amounts that Illinois has received were: FY’99—$14,075,811 FY’00—$9,811,412 FY’01—$14,396,351 FY’02—$15,788,246 FY’03—$5,476,520 FY’04—$3,338,261 The amount of SCAAP awards has been declining in both total distributions and even more as a share of the state’s expenses. In FY’99 the state received 38.6% of its costs. SCAAP data indicate that Illinois’s illegal alien inmate population had increased by 71 percent from the 1,653 inmate years in FY’99 to 2,825 inmate years in FY’02, while compensation increased by 13 percent, and subsequently dropped sharply. - QueenB - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:23 am: How is free education for the children of illegal immigrants not considered a reward for breaking the law? - Skeeter - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:27 am: QueenB - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:23 am said: “How is free education for the children of illegal immigrants not considered a reward for breaking the law?” Nice plan, Queen. Since you believe strongly in this issue, we are going to double the prices you pay for produce. Sound reasonable? - donchicago48 - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:29 am: The large population of illegal aliens is straining the state’s health care systems. Many illegal aliens lack health insurance and rely on the local emergency rooms and public health clinics for routine care. Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, hospitals with emergency rooms are required to treat and stabilize patients with emergency medical needs regardless whether or not they are in the country legally or whether they are able to pay for the treatment. Congress in 2003 enacted an appropriation of $250 million per year (for 4 years) to help offset some of the costs due to use of this service by illegal aliens. This amount has been allocated among the states based upon estimates of the illegal alien population and data on the apprehension of illegal aliens in each state. This amount compensates only a fraction of the medical outlays. For Illinois, the proposed payment in fiscal year 2004 was $10,301,871. The Chicago police and public service authorities operate under a “don’t ask, don’t tell” order with regard to illegal aliens, adopted in 1989.28 Other areas, however, have been frustrated by their inability to work with the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). The INS angered Greenfield Mayor Don Chapman in 2002, when it declined to take custody of two illegal aliens pulled over in a traffic stop. An INS spokesperson said that the agency had to be focused on other priorities. Two years earlier, INS agents told the Carrollton Police Chief Mike Kiger to release illegal aliens arrested by his department, saying they didn’t have the manpower to send an agent to take the aliens into custody. Kiger said he was so upset that he even offered to transport the illegal aliens to an INS detention center but was told to simply let them go. - donchicago48 - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:34 am: Skeeter said: “Nice plan, Queen. Since you believe strongly in this issue, we are going to double the prices you pay for produce. Sound reasonable?” Actually, studies have shown that farm wages account for only a small percentage of the retail price of produce. For example, the study estimated that switching completely to legal farm labor might add $.10 to the price of a head of lettuce in 2004. Nice plan, Skeeter, but try supporting your assertions with solid evidence, not conjecture. - Son of Immigrants - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:38 am: I must be too old. I was raised in a world where you followed the law and you got rewarded. You broke or evaded the law, you got punished. Why are we rewarding illegal immigrants? My ancestors had to work to get here, follow the law, become respected, honorable citizens. They were barely literate peasants starting with nothing and they could do it. They learned English passably well, they took driver’s ed and got licenses, they opened bank accounts and invested money. Why can’t these folks? Whatever your origins, I welcome you to my country, but by heaven you come in thru the front door or not at all. Illegals don’t just depress wages and break unions, their nebulous status makes them prime targets for all manner of crime, from protection rackets to drugs to human trafficking of the sickest kind. They are preyed upon as a resource by the outfit. The networks that bring them in can just as easily be bringing us new terrorists threats as well. I agree, we don’t have the resources to stop all of them, but we DO have the resources to dry up the demand side, by heavily prosecuting corporations AND individuals that use illegals. Prostitution in a neighborhood dies where you arrest and publicly prosecute and humiliate the johns. This is the same principle. Fine the hell out of them, use the money for programs to mainstream the well-intentioned illegals that are already here, to bring up their citizenship status in stages, so as long as they have a clean record and play by the rules, they can get an amnesty and become legal thru a process of earning their right to be here. Then they can vote, too! - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 11:40 am: Under Federal Law, local authorities MAY apply to train with Federal agencies and enforce immigration law. Counties in Alabama, Calif, Ohio and Arizona have taken or will take this training. It IS a local issue. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 12:19 pm: Immigration is first and foremost a federal issue. Two state rep candidates debating this is a clear sign that the Federal government has abdicated its responsibilty to deal with the problem. Providing access to state regulated programs that exist for state residents is a simple, common-sense and cost-effective way for Illinois to address its side of the jurisdictional issue. Unfortunately, mandating fingerprints and background checks is a rather expensive proposition and not very practical. Especially if the federal government doesn’t take the lead on this complicated national issue. Maybe we could have a thread where everyone assumes everyone else debating is also “pro legal immigration,” and then we can discuss exactly what that means and how it might be implemented without all of the emotion and political pandering that this debate typically generates on all sides. - H - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 3:39 pm: Why is it that one branch of the Federal Government (homeland security) wants the undocumented out, while another branch(IRS) gives them special numbers with which to file their taxes. The IRS offers a TIEN for the purposes of paying taxes. Now, who could possibly need a TIEN that couldn’t get an SSN? hmmmmm? It stands to reason that if Homeland Security asked IRS for all TIEN records, they’d find a whole lot of the undocumented. But if the IRS did that, then they couldn’t collect the taxes. What to do, what to do? - Skeeter - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 3:43 pm: We can stick our heads in the sand and just hope they will just go home, or we can follow Rep. Froehlich’s plan and document the migrants. If we follow his plan, then we can put the people into the system and identify terrorists. Americans need to realize a few things: 1. We cannot stop the influx of migrant workers; 2. If we allow the migrant workers in the U.S., then we can start allowing our border patrols to concentrate on stopping people who are coming here to blow things up, as opposed to coming here to accept a below minimum wage job. - Truthful James - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 4:15 pm: We can stop the flow, Skeeter. Convict and punish the businesses and farmers who use akien workers. Put a heavy tax on Western Union and other transactions sending money back to the home country. Do not issue driver’s licenses. Keep aliens out of the welfare system. Do not permit pregnant immigration for the purpose of an American birth and automatic citizenship. If you wish allow preferential reentry and green card at age 19, but deport them now. Mexico must initiate economic and tax policies to stimulate industrial development in that country. American companies should be given tax preferences for investment in Mexico. There is no reason why such investment can not be as profitable for Mexico as our investment in China. You raised mythical price escalations, Skeeter, which were debunked in this thread. - The Colonel - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 4:41 pm: Froehlich apparently has decided “nothing can be done” so go with the flow. That makes him part of the problem, not the solution. Klimkowicz’s record is not that of Barry Goldwater but is able to position herself to his right — which puts him in jeopardy if played right. But then she had to go and qualify it by endorsing taxpayer tuition to illegal aliens, when we don’t provide enough for our own citizens! Go figure, the voteres there may figure she’s slightly less kooky than he had been — but not much. - Skeeter - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 5:10 pm: Truthful, Has a State ever really tried to cut off illegal immigration and punish employers? What was the result? Ever hear of the meatpacking industry? What was their experience in cutting of illegal immigration? You might want to check your facts, my truthful friend. - North of I-80 - Tuesday, Feb 14, 06 @ 9:18 pm: Why are we rewarding anyone for breaking the law?? Why are we NOT deporting illegal aliens? For all the legal aliens who worked for citizenship, we OWE deportation to illegals. When will YOU want to deport them… after one smashes into your wife and daughter with an uninsured 78 Ford pickup truck at 50mph? - Skeeter - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 9:06 am: North of I-80: That was sort of Rep. Froehlich’s point. Under his plan, they WOULD be able to purchase insurance. With regard to the impact of cutting off illegal immigration and the impact: “About six million illegal migrants are now working in the U.S. The meatpacking industry is one of the many that rely on illegal immigrant labor. Seven years ago, the Immigration Service cracked down on illegal migrants in plants in Nebraska and Iowa. “Mark Reed was in charge of the operation. `What we did is we pulled together the meatpacking industry in the states of Nebraska and Iowa and brought them into Washington and told them that we were not going to allow them to hire any more unauthorized workers. Within 30 days over 3,500 people fled the meatpacking industry in Nebraska,’ says Reed. “`We proved that the government without doubt had the capacity to deny employment to unauthorized workers,’ says Reed. “What happened next? “`We were invited to leave Nebraska by the same delegation that invited us in. The bottom line issue was, please leave our state before you ruin our economy,’ says Reed. “`The reason is that by putting that factory out of business, not only do we put the unauthorized workers out of business, but we’ve put United States citizens out of business and we destroy, we have the potential to destroy, an entire community,’ says Reed. For the full story, see: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/08/60minutes/main1108476.shtml - Truthful James - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 9:13 am: Skeeter — nothing like rewarding failure, is there. Sounds like the meatpacking industry did not want to correct itself. Good old, politically connected IBP and the like. Everybody should bear the burden of the illegals?? - Skeeter - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 12:12 pm: Truthful: You really should read the piece on the impact in Nebraska. Bear the burden of illegals? That wasn’t their experience. Their experience was that getting rid of illegals caused major damage to the economy. But those facts do not coincide with your prejudices, so you just ignored them. It sure is much easier to blame the brown people than it is to contemplate the real costs of closing borders, isn’t it? I assume that you are going to support a hefty tax increase to pay for that big crackdown that you want? - Truthful James - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 2:59 pm: My dear Skeeter. As we used to say in Japan, chanchara okashi. I am pro legal brown and black, yellow and white as well. There would be no hefty tax increase required. Let’s get our structurally unemployed to work and save the welfare system some seious money. Lets get income flowing through the economy instead of being wired to Latin America. You make no economic sense. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 3:37 pm: My truthful friend, Do you acknowledge that stopping all illegal immigration will cost money? How do you propose to pay for it? Please explain how we can totally secure our borders without raising spending. And, incidently, what DID happen in Nebraska when they tried to cut off illegal immigration? Did the “structurally unemployed” rush in to fill those jobs, or did the Nebraska economy suffer to such an extent that they called the program off? What happened there my truthful friend? Tell the truth on this one. Truthfully, have you read the material referenced? Answering those questions is tough. It is much easier to just blame all those brown people, isn’t it? - Truthful James - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 3:58 pm: Of course, Skeeter, if you understand economics, less money spent on welfare will yield more money spent on enforcement. The income multiplier effect will generate more money as well. It is much larger and wider than your Nebraska anecdote. Badly run corporations need illegal underpaid labor to stay open? Those capitalists don’t need protection. They avoid plant modernization and refuse to pay the necessary market wage. Beef and pork production moves elsewhere. Did you believe we are just creating more vegetarians? - Skeeter - Wednesday, Feb 15, 06 @ 7:18 pm: Truthful, Thanks for the good laugh. No, seriously, how are you going to pay for all the new border guards to prevent people from coming here to take $3.00 per hour jobs? - badger - Friday, Sep 29, 06 @ 9:27 am: Most Americans are really sick of the government doing nothing to protect them from all of the illegals. I am so sick of having no choice in having to pay high federal, state, local, property, social security, medicare, sales, taxes etc. etc…All to pay for all of the government programs like free breakfast, lunch, bilingual programs free medical care ( at the expense of me paying higher health insurance premiums. I work very hard but am unable to save much for retirement , but the govenment taxes huge amounts of my income….We have no choice ,but to keep paying, and paying and paying..where are my rights to not have to pay for all of these government handouts?? Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.