49 Comments - Don Gwinn - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 8:41 am: From the ISRA press release that started the whole furball: “The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of citizens to petition the government for the redress of grievances,” said ISRA Executive Director, Richard Pearson. “Of course, the manner in which citizens exercise that right must not include any threats of harm against elected officials.” After complaining about Pfleger, however, the rifle association has not — as of this writing — condemned the threats on Kotowski’s life. It has expressed zero concern for the senator’s safety or the safety of his staff and his family. Hmmmmmm. - Gish - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 8:46 am: I doubt it is very hypocritical of the ISRA not to publicly disavow statements made by private citizens, likely not even in ISRA’s name, while at the same time expressing concern over a representative of a group making very public statements at a public forum. Apparently you make a very different call on that one. One should be held accountable for the statements of their representatives. One should not be held accountable for every private wacko with a common interest. - Pro-Gunner - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 8:51 am: As I remember it, the majority of gun owners on the blog last Friday agreed that the ISRA should publically condemn the threats on Kotowski’s life. The problem is that no one knows for sure who is making these threats. To assume that only a pro-gun person made this call is irresponsible. At any rate the ISRA should publically express concern for the senator’s safety, the safety of his staff. and the safety of his family. - Leroy - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 9:20 am: I don’t know if I like the idea of organized groups having to denounce every anonymous nutjob blogger that comes along. Father Pfleger, being a visible community leader that the media promotes is a little different. - Ken in Aurora - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 9:39 am: As a shooter, I’m appalled that the dinguses at ISRA couldn’t even take five minutes to condemn the alleged threats on their website. I’m not surprised, though - ISRA is run by a bunch of pikers, and I suspect they’re not even fully aware of the controversy. - Plutocrat03 - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 9:42 am: It seems that as newspaper reporter/columnist you have a strong anti-gun opinion. Your comments about ‘nutballs’ seems to defeat the concept that namecalling never achieves the intellectual goal of sollving an argument. It may be that Rep. Kotowski himself is among those you have colorfully insulted in your article. I don’t know. As far as the ISRA is concerned, unless the evidence the Representative has turned in includes an assertion that the threatening party is associated with the ISRA, they likely should not be joining the fray. There a hundreds of groups that have not issued statements condemming the purported threat. Should everyone else also be criticized for standing mute? The latest ‘fact’ in the reporting of this threat on this venue is that the threat occurred during a phone call. That means there is no proof of what, was said, but there is a phone record of who placed the call. I will ask why those who made non-threatening complaints to the Representative have been ‘interviewed’, while the threatining phone caller has not been repoprted as being interviewed? It is still important to understand whether the State Police were exercising their legitimate police authority in investigating the alleged threat, or whether they are ‘helping’ quiet dissent. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 9:50 am: “Plutocrat,” you are absolutely wrong about my position on guns. Also, my position on guns is completely irrelevant to this particular story. - Ken in Aurora - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:03 am: Plutocrat03, I have to disagree with you. ISRA is firmly in this one because of their past press releases re: Kotowski. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:31 am: The Catch 22 for the Illinois State Rifle Association//National Rifle Association//Gun Lobby is that one of their core arguments against gun control is that the Second Amendment was included by our Founding Fathers so that the people could take up arms against their government if it oppresses their Constitutional rights, including their right “to keep and bear Arms”. Here, for example, is a piece from The Conservative Voice, describing the police as “Stormtroopers,” and raising the specter of the need for Americans to take up arms against their despotic government. The despotism in question? Tougher gun control laws in the wake of the Virginia Tech shooting. Granted, this “militia view” is held only by a minority of gun owners — most are just everyday hunters or folks who grew up in a culture where the solution to crime fears is to keep a gun or two around the house (not invest in police protection or proven programs that prevent crime). But despite being a minority view, the militia types represent the core base of the pro-gun movement, and I think that the reason the ISRA has been reticent to denounce the threats against Kotowski is that they don’t want to alienate their base. It’s the same reason that the anti-abortion groups were slow to denounce death threats against doctors, and mainstream conservation groups have been pretty mum about eco-terrorists. Violence rarely solves anything, and within a democratic society I can’t think of a grievance against government that can’t be solved at the ballot box instead. Granted, the ballot box isn’t an expeditious solution, and it requires a few more brain cells than pulling a trigger, but if the wingnuts could exercise a little more patience and a few more brain cells, they can find a peaceful solution. I feel bad for Todd Vandermyde at ISRA, who is one of the smartest, most effective lobbyists in Springfield, even though I disagree with him on most issues and think his rhetoric is overheated at times. In this case, ISRA has turned up the heat way too high and lost control of their own movement, and they have to accept responsibility for the fruits that tree bears. If the State Police investigation manages to track down the caller who threatened Kotowski’s life, and it turns out he is an ISRA/NRA member who was on their e-mail/lobbying list, the damage will be irreparable to ISRA. You can also expect Cook County State’s Attorney Dick Devine (a staunch proponent of gun control) to throw the book at this wingnut in a very public trial. There won’t be any plea bargains on this one, nor should their be. Our entire democracy breaks down if advocates for any cause feel they have a yellow light to threaten the lives of our elected officials just because they disagree with them. - Plutocrat03 - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:33 am: If they or their membership are involved, they absolutely should respond. This thread has not made it clear that the ISRA has been involved in anything other than being critical of the Representative’s position. The representative is not in my district, so I do not follow his contributions to the political discourse. And if I misinterpreted Rich’s writings, I will apologise. Reading what has been published here could be interpreted as being anti-gun.. I am sure he also has much more information about this specific issue than has been published here, so perhaps his passion in condemning the ISRA come from knowledge he has that has not been shared here. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:39 am: Plutocrat, you’ve been around here awhile, so you should’ve seen the post I did on Pfleger. No other Illinois media followed up on that “snuff” remark until long after I put it here. - Another Pro-gunner - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:47 am: “Of course, the manner in which citizens exercise that right must not include any threats of harm against elected officials.” Seems, Rich, you are making much ado about something already addressed. Now, you have every right to express your personal opinion that the ISRA did not go far enough, but it would seem pretty clear that the organization did express that it does not support comments conveying threats. As for your position on guns, of course it has bearing on this story. I don’t know where you stand on the Second Amendment, but when you write an opinion piece that discusses this particualr debate, whether or not you support the right to keep and bear arms will certainly affect how you convey your opinion. That is only natural. Your opinion may very well be that you support, in general, the right to own firearms by law-abiding citizens, but you feel there should be some restrictions that are not currently in place. You may feel that Sen. Kotowski has some proposals to which you do not object, and he should be defended in order to better ensure his proposals are passed. I don’t know that is the case, but to say your opinion on guns has no bearing on this discussion is inaccurate. Now, if you were to say you oppose what Senator Kotowski has proposed (either his ban on .50 cal. rifles or his ban on certain ammunition feeding devices and certain rifles) because you feel they represent infringements on our right to keep and bear arms, that would be another story. I’m not trying to force you into committing a position on these proposals, but am merely trying to illustrate a point. Ultimately, I don’t share your opinion that ISRA should be required to condemn alleged threats that have yet to be proven, either in existence or origin, beyond what has already been stated. I am of the opinion that ISRA has already stated threats are not acceptable, as that is what the organization has said. Until a particular alleged threat can be proven to exist, however, what more should ISRA be expected to do? Again, they said threats are not appropriate, which applies to every threat that has been made, been alleged to have been made, or may be made in the future, although one hopes there are no threats in the future. And, again, they have told folks to be polite when communicating with lawmakers before the allegation of the threat, and have responded to the allegation by stating threats are not acceptable. Where, I might add, is your call for Kotowski to condemn the threats make by Pfleger? He has issued a release regarding the alleged threat his staff received, but has been silent about Pfleger. Should he not be held to the same lofty standards you have set for ISRA? - Pro-Gunner - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:53 am: YDD: Todd Vandermyde is an NRA lobbyist. - Skirmisher - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 12:00 pm: I agree entirely with those who feel that ISRA has no obligation at all to comment on individual persons who may make criminal threats against another person’s life. ISRA is an organization representing law-abiding gun owners. The organization does not represent thugs of any persuasion, and these threats are therefore none of its business. As for Kotowski, he has invited attention to himself by his extremist views and public statements. I am truly sorry to read that he has had actual threats from a couple of nuts in the lunatic fringe. However, I can certainly understand why there are many who would view him as a personal enemy more immediately threatening to their freedoms than many of those against whom we have been called to war with in foreign lands. - Bill - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 12:17 pm: Kotowski is more immediatly threatening than insurgents in Iraq? Can you guys get any more stupid? What comes out of your own mouths is the best argument yet for gun control! - bluedog demo - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 12:22 pm: when one mentions guns the ” nuts ” on both sides come sailing out of the trees. - Rich Miller - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 12:39 pm: I’m with Bill on this one. That comment really was stupid. Perhaps one of the dumbest I’ve ever seen posted here. - Plutocrat03 - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 12:52 pm: Rereading the post of the column summary I see that Fr. Pfleger made what can ve construed as a threat in public. Cardinal George,( his boss) condemned that statement because it was atithetic to the teachings of the Catholic Church. OK I get that and it makes sense. In the deplorable threat against the Representative, we have an unknown person making an unverified threat. Without more information, I do not know whether the NRA, ISRA or any other 2nd ammendment organization is in a position to condemn an anonymous individual. Clearly it needs to be investigated to see if the threating individual can be found, but as stated before, if the threat was made during a phone call, why has the individual not been contacted? In this world we unfortunately have many instances where a complaint of threats or violence occur, only to learn that the story was just a cover for another crime or a publicity ploy. - Ken in Aurora - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 1:56 pm: Bill and Rich, last time I checked Iraqi insurgents weren’t trying to force legislation that some would see as infringing on a Constitutional right… just sayin’. - Don Gwinn - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 2:00 pm: Still waiting for someone, anyone who said the ISRA supported the nutjob making death threats to make some sort of acknowledgment that it wasn’t true. Rich, I think you still have time to be the first. - Ken in Aurora - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 2:22 pm: Don, condemning and apologizing are two different things. ISRA could get mucho goodwill by simply condemning the cretins that allegedly threatened Kotowski. - Mongo - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 2:28 pm: This is an absolutely amazing discussion. The 2nd amendment, if I recall correctly (I am not a constitutional scholar, just someone protected by the Constitution), was drafted in regards to a militia. It was not intended to create a right to own a 50 cal machine gun. ISRA should promote responsibility amongst gun owners, and I am sure it does. Its silence on the alleged threat though is wrong. Speak up. Condemn the alleged statement. Ask for an investigation and disclosure of the results of the investigation. Condemning is a good start. - Ken in Aurora - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 2:39 pm: Mongo, many will disagree with you regarding application of the 2nd (like me). And “50 cal machine gun”? Please. I wholeheartedly agree with the last two paragraphs of your statement, though. ISRA needs to do something, and quickly. The delay further marginalizes ISRA. - Gene Parmesan - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 2:50 pm: Mongo, perhaps you should go back and study some of the constitutional law addressing the 2nd amendment. Most historians/scholars agree that the 2nd amendment was not enacted just for militias (though there are legitimate arguments on both sides of this). And, after some research, if you still think that 2A only applies to militias, you will be happy to know that every able-bodied citizen of Illinois is a member of the militia. - Skirmisher - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 3:15 pm: Rich, I clearly didn’t say very well what I was trying to say, because I was certainly misinterpreted. Like it or not, that is a point of view that I have often heard expressed. Just because I expressed understanding as to why it might exist does not mean that I concur with it. I actually have very low regard for so-called assault rifles, .50 BMG rifles, etc. Anyway, I apologize if my remarks seemed to be over the top, especially since I don’t have a personal dog in this fight. I will again state that I think the person who threatened Kotowski belongs in jail, right alongside that maniac “priest” who was threatening to snuff any legislator who opposed his views on anti-firearms legislation. Chicago politics being what it is, I suspect the priest is safe enough, however. - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 3:17 pm: If an ISRA organization exec or staffer is the culprit then indeed they should issue an apology and fire them. On the other hand “Rev. Jesse Jackson arrested at gun shop” - The Rev should apologize for his offensive rhetoric to law abiding gun owners. I think his and Pfleger’s over the top inflammatory speeches are offensive and self serving publicity seeking nonsense. Why do the press persist in reporting on Jesse? Entertainment value? He really is a Shakedown Artist. - Pro-Gunner - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 3:59 pm: A Citizen: Jessie is claiming that John Riggio pushed him and Jessie wants to press charges against John. Jessie is a master at “bump and fall.” He will slide his feet close to yours, push his hips and thighs forward, and lean back somwwhat at the waist. At the slightest touch he will fall backwards into the arms of his bodyguard. He attempted to use this technique on me and others at the second protest. He was unsuccessful because the police made all of the pro-gun people go inside the gun shop. The “bump and fall” technique was developed during the 60’s civil rights protest marches and gives the illusion that the protestor is not moving forward aggressively. The protestor continues to slide his feet forward until contact is made. - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 4:12 pm: The “bump and fall” technique - So, no “real” event, just a charade? And for this kind of behavior we are supposed to have “respect” for Jesse. And he should be wondering why he has NO credibility with clear thinking people. What a sham. What is it the ISRA is supposed to apologize for? Just what did the ISRA DO? This is a phony issue unless they actually and actively participated. - Don Gwinn - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 4:36 pm: Mongo, you are remembering two things incorrectly. The first is Illinois law; it’s been a felony for a private citizen to own any sort of machine gun for decades. The same goes for sound mufflers and short-barreled shotguns and rifles. There are plenty of states where you can do that, and it causes no problems, but not in Illinois. The second is the militia issue. The 2nd was not “drafted in regards to a militia.” It mentions the militia’s importance in the prefatory clause by way of explanation. The operative clause clearly states that the right of “the people” not “the state” or “the militia” shall not be infringed. THus, the right is held by the people, who in turn make up the militia. It’s halfway moot in Illinois because the Illinois Constitution doesn’t protect the right to keep and bear arms anyway. - Plutocrat03 - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 5:19 pm: I read Rep Kotowski’s second press release and then looked up the first one. I am now leaning toward the opinion that the ‘threats’ were fictitious or embellished. The first press release outlines the allegations in a rather vague unverifiable manner. Furthermore, I believe that a press release on something as serious as a personal threat of harm would be injurious to an investigation, so we are working at cross- purposes here. The second press release makes an accusation that an ISRA statement ‘inspired’ a statement from a third party. He is cleverly dancing on the legal side of libel. If the ISRA, person or other organization made this statement then those people should be held accountable for their statements. Making such a linkage without proof is reckless. (If there is proof, then there should be supportive documentation) I view the ‘inspired’ statement quote dimly and if the statement reaches the level of criminal conduct then the author needs to be held accountable. However I do view that Rep. Kotowski’s linkage of these statements to anyone other than the author to be quite speculative at best and potentially libelous. My view is that if a person is threatened, they need to engage the proper authorities in the pursuit of the criminal and not do anything that would jeopardize the investigation. The fact that this ‘investigation’ is being played out in press releases, makes me believe that there are other motives involved. If it can be proven that these accusations are false, the Rep. Kotowski should be held accountble and be charged with making a false report to a police officer. - dumb ol'country boy - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 7:36 pm: Okay Rich, I agree that the ISRA looks kind of foolish, they could come out with a little comment about they do not condon that type of statement and are sorry it happended to the senator and his family etc.. But how do you, I and the rest of the public know it was one of their members? You and everyone else are assuming that is was a member. Not like they signed or gave their name and address when the threat was made. I along with everyone else in West Central Illinois appreciate my guns. I don’t want any Rep or Senator telling me, a law abidding citizen, that I cannot possessa firarm. People kill not guns, it’s the person pulling the trigger, get tough with the criminal not the law abiding citizen. ISRA should get a better PR man. - tomoo - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 8:34 pm: Senator Kotowski I have seen this a thousand times a politican gets backed into a corner and presto death threats. As an average American I do not believe politicans. Please senator show us the proof. - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 9:27 pm: Jesse, pfleger, and Kotowski - the 3 amigos. Show us the proof? We don’t need no stinking proof. We’ve got press coverage. - steve schnorf - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 9:59 pm: You guys with guns should feel well enough protected to sign your names. - Gun Guy - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:09 pm: The ISRA is missing a golden opportunity here. Note to Rick Pearson/Todd Vandermyde. Take one of those raffle guns (better yet an AR), hold a press conference and present it to the threatened senator to protect himself with. This would be a good thing and a good PR move as even librals are entitled to self defense. On the threats–anyone who threatens anyone else is an idiot and wrong. But before I start ripping an specific individual or group, I would like to see the evidence. There is a constitutional presumption of innocence. And I do agree with sentiments above that after being lied to by politicians I don’t automatically believe them. Trust but verify, you know. ISRA shou - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 10:59 pm: Steve, we do feel safe but some of us are your neighbors and somehow we just like the anonymity. Bill for instance lives to the left of your place and I am just to the right. Now don’t you feel safer knowing that while you are sleeping we are ever vigilant . . . and armed to the teeth? - tomoo - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 11:03 pm: How would you people like the State Police comming to your house, when you did nothing wrong. You were just stating your opinion. First Amendment rights getting stomped on. If there was threats investigate them and leave the honest people alone. That is what this is all about. - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 11:08 pm: - tomoo - If that turns out to be what really happened I would hope to see serious lawsuits pursued with vigor. This is not a police state - for anyone. - steve schnorf - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 11:13 pm: Well said, Citizen; I got rid of my guns when I had kids growing up, since everything I read said I was more likely to shoot one of my family, or one of the kids shoot a sibling or playmate than I ever was likely to defend my house against intruders. I used mine to hunt (not the revolver, I’m really not sure why I had a handgun). Then in my 30s I didn’t hunt anymore, and my 1st kid was born when I was 32. You’re welcome to yours as far as I’m concerned, but I really don’t understand the practical use of high capacity magazines or .50 caliber (non muzzle loader) rifles. Sometimes it seems the gun folks are saying they want them because they have a right to have them. I’m not sure; we all know rights are subject to reasonable restrictions and regulations. - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 11:20 pm: On the 50 caliber issue - a gun dealer friend of mine told me about a guy he sold a 50 cal. revolver to - The guy took it out and with the first shot the recoil shattered his wrist! So I decided against that one. But I really do want a Tommy Gun to go with my 1931 Antique Car, just for fun. I can legally buy one in Illinois, it just can’t have the full auto feature. And they are new. - tomoo - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 11:30 pm: A CITIZEN, it really happened I have the proof because it happened to me. - A Citizen - Monday, Jun 25, 07 @ 11:36 pm: Steve, I respect your reasoning and your decision about your weapons. I keep mine locked up except when the voices tell me to clean them. However, times change and I prefer to keep mine as they are with a plentiful stock of ammunition. The folks against guns are denying reality. That may be an ideal that is worthy however after a hundred years of modern firearms being freely sold in this country there are just too many to actually eliminate. Just look to Chicago where they are not allowed - confiscate/try to eliminate the guns and who still has them? Not the guy who needs the protection! - Ol'Coach - Tuesday, Jun 26, 07 @ 2:08 am: Mongo, another poster was correct when he stated that many would disagree with you, most recently a panel of the Washington D.C. Appellate Court when they reuled the Washington D.C.gun ban was unconstitutional based on the fact that the 2nd Amendment applied to the people. The city appealed to the full Appellate court, but was denied. The city is now faced with the decision of appealing to the United States Supreme Court, or dropping the appeal. Betcha they drop it…too much riding on it for cities like Chicago! Wanna bet??? - Frosty da Snowman - Tuesday, Jun 26, 07 @ 6:35 am: Let’s put things in perspective here. Kotowski has made it his life’s work to eliminate civilian firearm ownership. He’s the former director of the state’s gun-control lobby - the ICHV. Over the years, the ICHV has thrown millions of Joyce Foundation dollars into efforts to trash the gun rights of law-abiding citizens. Years ago, when the ISRA put the spotlight on Kotowski and his gun-grabbing pals, Kotowski made a hasty exit from the ICHV leadership because he couldn’t stand the heat. Within moments of being sworn in as a state senator, Kotowski came out swinging at gun owners. He’s sponsored or cosponsored bills that would ban guns owned by law abiding citizens; force law abiding gun owners to register with the state just like sex offenders must; heap an unbearable regulatory burden on the gun dealers and run hundreds of manufacturing jobs and millions of dollars of domestic product out of the state. Let’s not forget Kotowski’s latest folly - a the morphing of a child protection bill into a totally unenforceable ammunition magazine ban. Now that the ISRA has once again turned the heat up on Kotowski, he’s whining about it being too hot in the kitchen. I really can’t muster much sympathy for Kotowski. He’s sort of like the wise-guy kid that keeps poking a sleeping pitbull with a stick on a hot summer afternoon - with predictable results. The only people who owe Kotowski an apology are the people - if there are actually any - who made these alleged threats. The ISRA doesn’t owe Kotowski squat - except unceasing scrutiny and disclosure of his position on private firearm ownership. It is interesting that neither Kotowski nor Miller have been able to produce evidence that these mythical threats have taken place. To their credit, the ISRA produced evidence of a citizen who was hassled by the State Police for merely sending a fax to Kotowski in which Kotowski was reminded that this is the USA, not Russia. In Sunday’s Op-Ed piece, Miller implies that the ISRA has given tacit approval to those who supposedly have threatened Kotowski. For Miller to suggest such is inflammatory and irresponsible. I challenge Miller to produce a single example of where the ISRA has told gun owners to threaten Kotowski, Iris Martinez, or any other legislator. In fact, the ISRA has done everything it can to encourage good behavior when dealing with legislators. Just look at their email alerts. Every one of them says ‘be polite.’ I have been to ISRA legislative workshops. The guys running those workshops tell people to be polite and to keep their emotions in check. The Illinois General Assembly has passed laws designed to protect legislators from threats. I fully support the prosecution under these laws of individuals who would venture to threaten Senator Kotowski, or any other legislator. Likewise, I would expect to see Fr. Pfleger arrested and prosecuted for threatening the lives of legislators who oppose gun control Once again, let’s keep in mind that Kotowski filed his nominating papers and ran for office with the sole intent of running the NRA, the ISRA, gun manufacturers, gun shops and gun owners out of the state. In proclaiming himself to be the gun-control messiah, Kotowski has riled up a whole lot of people - many of whom consider the ISRA to be a gun control organization. The ISRA can neither predict nor control the actions of those people. Likewise, the ISRA shouldn’t be apologizing for them, either. - Don Gwinn - Tuesday, Jun 26, 07 @ 7:21 am: I doubt Rich was there a few years ago in the state capitol (I think it was called the “Lincoln Room” on the second floor, but I wouldn’t swear to it) when word came to the gathered group of gun owners that someone had threatened to kill one of the legislators “sponsoring” one of Richie Daley’s bills. I cannot for the life of me remember who it was, but she was from one of the Chicago metro counties, as I recall. Anyway, after they changed the date of the committee hearings on us, and after they then changed the venue to accommodate our numbers (we still had a lot of people standing on the balcony out in the rotunda circle) they delayed and delayed and made us think there would be no hearings. Then they told us that someone had threatened to kill a legislator. They said it was someone trying to stop gun control. We were sick to our stomachs and the mood of the crowd was not good. Todd Vandermyde gave us a stinging lecture about the difference between politics and hate. Then we found out there’d been no death threat after all. - Don Gwinn - Tuesday, Jun 26, 07 @ 7:24 am: Just read the update. Well, he’s managed to provide evidence for one thing: Bill St. Clair said something stupid on the internet. Maybe there’s more to come. - Gish - Tuesday, Jun 26, 07 @ 8:03 am: Who is Bill St. Clair, other than a self proclaimed ‘Crypto-Anarcho-Libertarian’? Like I said early on if he is a rep of ISRA then yes they have some responsibility to denounce his statement. If he isn’t then it isn’t their responsibility to condemn, apologize or denounce every wacko with a common interest. As YDD brought up as an example, I don’t expect the Sierra Club to publicly condemn each and every time the ELF sets fire to a subdivision or spray paints an SUV dealership. - tomoo - Tuesday, Jun 26, 07 @ 8:19 am: Frosty the Snowman has it right. Please read his blog. Also keep in sight what this is all about. FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS Pingback “El Tigre” Wins Another Honor « Illinois Reason - Friday, Oct 19, 07 @ 7:01 pm: […] No wonder the ISRA’s silence was deafening after some deviant called in a death threat to Sen. Kotowski’s office. (Actually, instead of condemning any such threats and those extremists who would make them, the ISRA complained that one of their members was visited by police in the process of their information-gathering investigation into the original threat.) […] Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.