14 Comments - Cassandra - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 8:52 am: Foreman must have a lotta clout somewhere if he is still working for the state. Apparently, he doesn’t have the decency to resign, either. I mean, come on. There must be scores of retired firefighters out there who could do his job. I guess a “resignation” would interfere with his desire for a lucrative state pension (paid for by us) to add to his lucrative Joiet pension. Does the state of Illinois ever fire anybody for anything other than being on the wrong side of the current political equation. No. And the civil service/union employees are protected by Rutan from ever being fired at all. They have lifetime, ironclad job security unparalleled in the rest of the working world. With regular raises, too. And no performance requirements. - Wumpus - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 9:32 am: I supposed we have found Froehlich’s price. http://www.dailyherald.com/news/cookstory.asp?id=328440&cc=c&tc=sch&t=Schaumburg - Ken in Aurora - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 9:56 am: Re the earlier controversy about Kotowski’s alleged death threats: I notice ISRA finally stepped up to the plate this past Saturday. Took ‘em long enough. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 10:47 am: Cassandra, though this site abounds with over the top rhetoric, your statement that the State never fires people for cause is simply absurd. - Bill - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 10:53 am: Steve’s right and good cause is not always a nesessity. - Captain America - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 10:56 am: Nothing personal, but being convicted of DUI, while driving a state vehicle, is grounds for an prompt discharge, subject to whatever due process applies to high level executives - no ifs, ands, or buts about it! - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 10:57 am: Steve, if you think the rhetoric here is over the top, you should really look at comments on some other sites, including “mainstream” media like the SJ-R. Ironically, you went over the top with that one. But your point about Cassandra’s comment is well-taken. Now, when are you coming back to town? We haven’t had a drink at the 6th Floor hideaway in a while. I kinda miss you. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 11:25 am: Rich, how about tomorrow morning? - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 11:36 am: Morning? That’s too much even for me. - Cassandra - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 1:32 pm: Steve;; Numbers please. How many per year? And don’t include resignations and “retirements.” And employees whose terms were up. I’m talking people who actually got a formal discharge from state employment. - steve schnorf - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 1:57 pm: Cassandra, I’m too far removed from the process at this point to have numbers (though a number of 1 negates your comment), but I’m sure CMS can tell you if you’re really interested. I certainly signed a number of dismissals while I was Director of CMS. As to resignations, it’s a mistake not to count the ones that are in lieu of firing. - Captain America - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 2:17 pm: I remember an incident many years ago that effectively illustrates how difficult it can be to fire a problem civli serive employee, particularly when a union contract exists. The supervisory rule of thumb is ‘document, document, document!” I had an employee, who allegedly had a drug problem, that got caught “red-handed” for stealing from a city agency. (I had already referred him to the employee assistance program before the theft incident, even though he denied having a drug problem.) I couldn’t suspend him without pay because there was a “double jeopardy” rule, which would have precluded me from firing him because I’d be pounishing him twice for the same offense. I could have suspended him with pay, but that would have been reqarding him for missing work, which he already did on a frequent basis becaue of his alleged drug problem. Even though it was an open-and-shut case, I had to testify before a hearing officer to justify the termination decision. I remember the union represntantive’s irelevant testimony that he was a “good guy, who had somehow gone wrong” and that he “deserved a second chance.” Anyway,the City Personnel Board eventually ratified the hearing officer’s recommendation that the termination was justified. But the thief got paid for several months while due process ran its course, What was really needed was some type of common-sense, expedited due process for egregious cases.For all practical purposes the thief fired himself by his felonoius behavior. Wh knows what the decsion might have been if I ahd not previosly tried to help the employee by refreering him to EAP. However,to put this case in its proper perspective, consider that many of the really large-scale, white-collar, corporate criminals in the private sector, get off “scott-free” or get golden parachutes when they get caught (e.g., all the investment bankers who colluded with Enron) - Papa Legba - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 3:56 pm: Cassandra, Let me help you a bit here. Normally I don’t bother with or read your repetitive, rote, simplistic statements, but I have to comment on this one. Yes, employees are fired at the state. It is rare and there has to be a HUGE violation prior to the firing. State employees also do not enjoy lifetime employment guarantees as you assume. On the other hand, you don’t hear of many employees being fired because it takes too much effort and paperwork to sack an employee. The “higher-ups” are too lazy to follow procedure. What you do find are wholesale resignations and people leaving via early retirement. Why you may ask is it this way. It is because state employees are employed. Most what to stay that way. It helps when you have a job to pay the bills, eat, etc. But… If they want you gone, it isn’t done through proper channels. You get treated like crap. You get abused you like you are rented mule. Life at work becomes so miserable you actively look for a way out. An example for you. I was required to move my office location every other week for two months. I didn’t just move to a new seat, I had to physically move all of my furniture, desk, file cabinets etc. by myself. This is not isolated. I witnessed many, many people treated this way. I watched my whole staff get treated this way. I was forced to “write-up” bogus disciplinary notices on my employees. If I didn’t, BAM one week off - no pay. All five of the people on my staff had multiple unpaid “vacations” because they violated some rule that was made up for the situation. By the time I left I believe that I had been paid for 48 weeks work in the previous year. So yes, state employees are rarely fired. They are just shown the open door and stabbed and kicked the entire way toward it until they are out. - Disgusted - Thursday, Jul 5, 07 @ 9:15 pm: Yes, Cassandra, there is a Santa Claus. Two people, both union, were fired from my office within the last two years - one was a sexual predator and the other was a gold-bricker who was offered resignation or firing. So you see, it doesn’t matter if you are a union employee. You CAN get fired by the state and we are a small office. Imagine what’s going on in offices with hundreds of employees, like DHS. Oops, wrong example. But seriously, people do lose their jobs for ethics, illegalities and just plain being lazy or misusing state resources and/or property. It’s just not the ones at the top who are doing most it. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.