24 Comments - Levois - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:08 am: In the excerpt provided I can see how a case could be made in hiring more minorities in Children and Family services, Corrections, and Human Services. These services are more likely to affect blacks more than anyone else. - VanillaMan - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:12 am: Those who look for discrimination always find it. - Trafficmatt - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:15 am: Minority set asides are not all that they are cracked up to be. I’m a former consultant, so I’ll speak to that side. Just for clarification, I never worked at a DBE firm. If there is a State contract that has a specific DBE (Disadvantaged Business Enterprise) set aside, of say 20%, what portion of the contract will the prime bring in a DBE for? If it is a roadway design, do you think that the prime is going to have the subconsultant layout the design for the roadway? No. DBE consultants typically are doing fairly insignificant work items such as the land surveying, soil borings, CAD work, copying, traffic counts, etc. So then you look at the DBE firm and their hiring. If they are growing, they go to interview at a prestigious university for a young engineer. The young engineer excitedly asks “what will I be doing at your firm?” “Well, you will spend half of your day copying and the other half doing some CAD work”. So, they are not able to attract the best talent. It ends up being a joke. A much, much better process would be to eliminate all of the DBE requirements, and instead focus on having smaller contracts that upstart firms could get. In addition, set up a program to financially help DBE firms start up and have a training program for the owners to help them learn the business. This way, instead of doing insignificant portions of large projects, the DBEs could learn to do smaller, meaningful projects, have success, attract good talent, and then take on more and more significant projects as they grow. I am pretty confident that on the contracting side, much the same thing happens. - Can't we all just get along? - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:24 am: I’ve always been taught that “It’s what’s inside, not outside, the person that is important.” - wallace - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:52 am: I can clearly remember struggling with the set aside issues almost 30 years ago. Are we to believe that in 30 years that no African American construction firm has developed to the point of being a qualified prime contractor? If this is true then no wonder that the eastern Europeans and people from indiana are getting all of the work. Can anyone in government explain why government itself has not made a concerted effort to develop African American construction entrepreneurs. This is more than a disgraceful situation. Maybe Daley can get his friends the Duffs to do the set aside work and claim that they are black. - Objective Dem - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:56 am: There are three factors impacting the number of latinos working for state goverment. One issue is the latino population is concentrated in Chicago and the burbs, while the state jobs are concentrated in Springfield. A second issue is latinos are disproportionately younger. The anlysis should be based on working age adults. And third, the reality is a significant number of latinos are not eligible to work for the state because they are not legal residents. - Ghost - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 10:16 am: The statitics they use are meaningless. To begin with, what percentage of applicants are minorities? Before we can say there is a hiring problem we need to know how many minorities are even applying for State jobs. Its hard to get a job if you do not ask for one. - NimROD - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 10:16 am: As long as people choose to define issues by race there will be racism in this country. Using quotas and statistics to regulate hiring is a ridiculous practice that should be ended at the earliest possible opportunity. The only consideration for employment *should* be whether or not the person is well qualified for the job. It makes no sense to deny employment opportunities to a person who is the most qualified on the sole basis of the color of their skin - regardless of what that color is. Discrimination is discrimination and, regardless of the target, it is wrong. Setting a quota to ‘even the playing field’ is little more than retaliatory overcompensation for past wrongs. Government has, in its mindless haste to appear politically sensitive, has thrown all common sense out the window. This is the kind of statistical nonsense that has 90 pound females applying for jobs as firefighters when they can’t physically do the work. This is not a slight against women; I simply point out that someone who weighs 90-100 pounds probably won’t have the physical strength to carry my 250 pounds out of a burning building. If you can do the work and are qualified - fine. Otherwise, it should be the BEST qualified for the job at hand….not the best candidate that meets a quota slot. - cermak_rd - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 10:33 am: Yes, yes, best qualified for the job. But when stats show a huge disparity, then it should at least make people explain the discrepancy. In this case, some of the commenters have explained some of the discrepancies (such as that state jobs are heavily concentrated in Springfield where the Latino presence is lower). - Milorad - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 10:53 am: How big should the slice of pie be, 100%? - Six Degrees of Separation - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 11:29 am: If you are one of the graduating minorities at a state engineering or business school, and you are doing well academically, and the state offers you a job at state wages, and private firms are able to offer you a job at higher salary & benefits, where are you going to go? Top minority and twofer (minority & female) candidates are highly sought after by private industry, and the state simply cannot compete at state wages, unless the candidate is willing to forego salary because they enjoy the job description and/or the social good aspect of working for the state. Also complicating matters for the state are the location of jobs, with some minorities not wanting to settle downstate where many jobs are located, out of personal preference. This is an issue that is more of an educational than a recruitment issue. The pool is currently too small, and too competitive, if the state is trying to meet a quota for qualified college-educated minorities in certain positions. - Team Sleep - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 11:58 am: The state routinely searches nationwide for minority applicants who are interested in professional and degree-based jobs. As a taxpayer, I would like to know why money is being spent on these searches when the state has two good engineering schools (SIUC and UIUC) and a plethora of already-qualified graduates and soon-to-be-graduates. The state really needs to concentrate more so on hiring qualified and experienced workers that meeting quotas and hiring guidelines. It’s not racist and bigoted to want my state (as a whole) to perform well and have an efficient government with competent employees and friendly staff. It would be nice to live in a state where service is the main priority of the government and its employees. Instead, the priority is placed on the powerbrokers and how to keep the same people in office and in their jobs while only hiring the people you want and who agree with your or have the same affiliation. - Cassandra - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 12:36 pm: This is all rather complicated, as in any system where affirmative action and quota systems must try and function effectively. But everybody is missing the point here. Why are so many African Americans in jail. Why are so many blacks kids going into some form of foster or “relative” care. I’m not sure that we should have employment quotas based on the ethnicity of the service population, but if that’s what we have or are going to have, we need to get to the root cause of the service need. And even most minorities tend to avoid that one. - steve schnorf - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 12:43 pm: This is an area in which Hispanics have been unfairly treated for many years. It simply defies reason that if DHS and Corrections can find Blacks willing to work in Robinson and Big Muddy, etc, etc, that they can’t find Hispanics. I’ve believed for many years that for the main part the effort just isn’t there on the State’s part. - FED UP - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 12:53 pm: Levois Why do you feel that DCFS, corrections and human services are going to affect blacks more than anyone else. What about higher education or the enviroment or transportation. your narrow minded thinking hurts. Saying that corrections affect blacks more than anyone else where wuld you get an idea like that? - Anon - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 1:09 pm: According to today’s SJ-R poll, 90.3% of those that participated (1,553) believe things are fine and that State Government should NOT do more to hire more minorities. - Siyotanka - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 3:24 pm: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. If there are no qualified firms (by whomevers standards) then you cannot hire them. What happens when the baby boomers retire…we will be the largest ethnic minority…oh wait that will be the largest ethnic class…maybe we can get some of those contracts…you know- to keep us going…Hum??? - Snidely Whiplash - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 4:19 pm: Racial hiring is as despicable as racial discrimination … because it’s the same darned thing. If you have to hire a “minority”, then you must remove from consideration a similarly qualified “non-minority” candidate. Can someone tell me how telling someone that they cannot be considered for employment because of the color of his skin is NOT discrimination? - RepresentAsian - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 4:23 pm: Hmm. In the article, I did not see any mention of Asian Americans in state government, though we are also a minority group. Despite our growing population statewide, we still have very few state employees who have policy-making authority, and we have no elected representatives in the IL House, IL Senate, IL Supreme Court, Cook County Board, or Chicago City Council. - How about Asians? - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 4:44 pm: Yes, where were the Asian numbers in the article? We’re a growing population, too! And as RepresentAsian noted, we have ZERO elected officials in those state/local governing bodies! - It Is Discrimination - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 5:36 pm: The main reason DHS has so many minorities is that the current administration only wants to hire minorites. The don’t want the best person for the job, they want the best Black Person. Would be interesting to see of all jobs they (DHS) has posted since 2002, how many went to what ethnic group. This in fact, is racial discrimination on their part. - IDOT Engineer - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 7:33 pm: Team Sleep makes a good point. UIUC is the #1 ranked civil engineering school in the US. But he/she misses another obvious point. The current administration couldn’t care less about actual performance or ability - only on appearances. IDOT spent untold thousands of dollars for a “Career Day” last month. They invited students from various area high schools to try to encourage them to consider transportation-related careers. Glenwood, among others was not invited because they do not have a high enough proportion of minorities. Again, it’s all about appearances. Rome is burning while Blago fiddles in front of any camera he can find. - Hypocrisy Police - Monday, Oct 22, 07 @ 9:32 pm: IDOT, if you think that is bad, you should take in a meeting of the “Senate Select Committee on Pension Investments,” aka the Emil Jones Fundraising Auxiliary. The message-don’t worry if these people make money for the pensions that we’ve never put enough money into, just hire plenty of minorities. Oh, by the way, minority doesn’t include Asians, Caucasian women, or anyone living outside the City of Chicago. It’s no coinky-dink that O’Bama bailed from this crew the day before he started his federal campaign committee. (Source:Tribune report) This nonsense demeans all the hard working and standup minority businesspeople (take Chris Gardner for example) who have worked darn hard to succeed in a white-shoe, shiny suit, good ol boys’ business. - anon - Tuesday, Oct 23, 07 @ 5:30 am: Hypo Police: caucasian women have benefited the MOST out of any groups. 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