47 Comments - Learning the Ropes - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:18 pm: As much as I detest racial slurs and intolerance, I’m a little baffled by this. If someone calls children “monkeys” I assume it is because of running, jumping and climbing. When I first saw this story I had to read it twice thinking I missed something. I was regularly called a little monkey when I was younger, and I enjoy rock climbing now so the title still applies… unless there’s more to it that isn’t being reported on, this is ridiculous. She should not step down, she should apologize for unintended insult, but not be held responsible for any wrong doing. - Levois - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:19 pm: How is limiting how many guns a person buys going to be a reasonable response to gun violence in the city? Enforce the existing laws and go after these guns that are being traded illegally in the streets. Especially if these trades are between criminals. These laws only punish responsible law-abiding citizens who own a gun! - Trapped In The Metro East - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:19 pm: Will she be sitting next to Geraldine Ferraro? - AsAMom - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:25 pm: HEXC: Hse Executive 3 pm or after session, Room 118, Capitol HA 2-HB 758 Osterman (FOID card-private sale) HJUA: Hse Judiciary Civil Law 4 pm, Room D-1, Stratton HA 1-HB 2094 Fritchey (construction safety act) - Crafty - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:26 pm: If the delegate had seen the children swimming and called them “little fish” would she be asked to step down? Like the earlier poster, I read the monkey reference as a reference to running, jumping, climbing children (i.e. the children’s actions) not their race. Do we now need to rename “monkey bars” and “jungle gyms” so we don’t inadvertantly offend someone? - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:30 pm: When this story first broke I received a breathless, insistent email from a Clinton supporter demanding that Ms. Ramirez-Sliwinski be removed as a delegate. - Learning the Ropes - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:30 pm: Thank You Crafty!!! I knew there were glaring monkey references that I couldn’t put my finger on. Monkey Bars and Jungle Gyms are exactly what I was looking for. - Garp - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:33 pm: I think the Obama campaign wants this to go away as soon as possible, as well they should. Not only is it bad politically, but it could be costly. I am sure the woman is being deluged by lawyers who want to sue Carpentersville and the Obama campaign for branding her a racist, ect. I bet she could make a fortune off this. It appears reasonable minds are starting to prevail, - Greg - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:34 pm: I don’t understand why she was ticketed. How exactly did she disturb the peace? - Frank Booth - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:34 pm: Crafty: In one of the stories, one of the kids’ mom said the woman yelled that the “monkeys” were ruining the neighborhood. Obviously the neighbors don’t get along, so who knows what really happened. - Silent Majority - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:34 pm: Good for Ms. Ramirez. She obviously did nothing wrong and the political correctness police are not going to intimidate her into resigning. - Chicago Dem - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:51 pm: Why would the parents of the kids who had been damaging the tree by climing on it be insulted by Mr. Ramirez’ ‘monkey’ coments given the context of this lady’s comments? And why would a kid 9 years old be frightened by the word monkey as the newspaper article states. Did the police ask the kid if he was ‘frightened’ by the comment or is this the parents’allegation? - chiatty - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:55 pm: The gun nuts had a tough week, with Charleton Heston passing away, so they can take solace in the fact that there are still enough knuckleheaded legislators in Illinois who are too scared to stand up to the gun lobby. Another good day for the gun lobby, the drug dealers and the gang bangers. - publius - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:57 pm: now we have towns issuing tickets for things we say—the constitution guarantees our freedom of speech—including the right to call anybody names—where is the aclu when we need them? - Princeville - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:59 pm: Well, while I believe from the story that she meant nothing racial, I have a bit of a problem with her interaction with her neighbors. The parents were outside, their house, their tree. Then something about teaching them to properly use their garbage lids? I’m getting the feeling she needs to tend to her own business and let the neighbors run their own household. Unless these children were truly in danger of harming themselves. My 8 year old has a cute little monkey sleep mask, we call her our little monkey all the time but she’s ADHD and it has nothing to do with her color, it’s the climbing, jumping, blah blah. She owes the neighbors a ’sorry I over stepped my bounds’. - Greg - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:59 pm: Classy, Chiatty. I’m sure the dealers and bangers were shaking in their shoes over the possibility of finding themselves in violation of state law…probably were refreshing the GA site constantly! -knucklehead - Jim Knuckle - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:02 pm: I am shocked and appalled at the widespread, demeaning use of the term “knucklehead” on this blog. It demeans my family’s fine name and heritage and if you persist in using it I will be calling the Carpentersville police, who’ve apparently solved all crime in the community. - Rob_N - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:11 pm: “Obama’s campaign had been told on Monday that she planned to step down.” Wait?! You mean all those conservative blogs (and even FOX News) that went nuts claiming Obama’s camp “forced” her out were … wrong?! No. That can’t be right. – Publius, the Constitution doesn’t guarantee a right to disturb the domestic tranquility which, if the word was used as a slur, it clearly was meant in a confrontational fashion. Is it a fine line? Sure. But she can also go to court to dispute the ticket and have a judge decide whether she was on the right side of that line or not. As has been regularly reported, the two neighbors in question have been replaying Hatfields v. McCoys for years. - Slick Willy - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:17 pm: If the problem is gun crime in Chicago, why introduce a bill that would create another worthless gun law for the entire state? Perhaps Chiatty needs to take a better look at who the real knuckleheads are (with apologies to Mr. J. Knuckle). - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:18 pm: As bizarre and sad as this might sound, I doubt that this is the last we’ll hear about and from the Obama delegate and her neighbor. There are still a lot of news cycles to fill before the Pennsylvania vote. - Reddbyrd - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:18 pm: Speaking of Positivity —-The House canceled session on Friday & Monday. - Levois - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:19 pm: LOL Mr. Knuckle gets a comedy award for the blog. - Anonymous45 - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:39 pm: i dont think she should have stepped down. This is a more than a little ridiculous… On the other hand, I am mystified that congregants at Trinity United Church of Christ aren’t more than a little miffed at Barack for using his affiliation with a them to both forward his candidacy, while renouncing at the same time what was preached there…how politically expedient…can you imagine the outcry if Hillary went to a church that damned America and said blacks are the sole cause of their socio-economic ills? Wow!! I will support Barack when he wins the nomination, but this is just a little too cute on his part… - Douglas M. - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:39 pm: Rumor has it the next title in the Eileen Christelow series of children’s books will be “5 Little Monkeys Climbing in Carpentersville”. - Sir Reel - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:43 pm: Both sides of the gun issue see it as either good guys rightfully protecting their homes and loved ones from invading marauders, or violent, armed criminals shooting down innocent victims in the streets. Unfortunately, more if not most gun fatalities are from family arguments getting out of hand, road rage-type outbursts getting out of hand, bar altercations getting out of hand, you get the picture. How many spur-of-the-moment gun fatalities are acceptable for each protecting the castle gun fatality? - Pat Collins - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:47 pm: It’s unclear from the stories I have read if the kids were in HER tree, or someone else’s. Of course, the fact that the woman is a trustee, and was visible as an advocate for illegal aliens in recent C-ville controversies might have motived the kids parents to call the cops….. How exactly did she disturb the peace? Actually, that is a very dangerous charge, it can be abused in many ways. The high school kid in Cary who wrote an essay got charged with it. - Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 3:58 pm: Sir, The acceptable ratio is 3.2 spur-of-the-moment gun fatalities to 1 protecting the castle gun fatality. If this ratio is exceeded in any calendar year, the Illinois Bureau of Proportionate Gun Fatalities will arrange for one staged break-in per week at a gun owner’s house or place of business til the correct ratio is achieved. - downhereforyears - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 4:09 pm: When my kids were little we had a small fruit tree in our back yard….they often climbed that tree. I regularly referred to them as “little monkeys” This one goes a little too far. Chill out people. - Greg - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 4:29 pm: Pat, I was thinking of that same example. Frighteningly, the PC police are on occasion literally the police. - kimsch - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 5:23 pm: On Monkeys… When your whole life is spent searching for - and finding - things to be offended about, you have no life… On Guns… they’re illegal in the City anyway. More laws will not stop criminals from procuring same. Criminals don’t care about laws, that’s why they’re criminals. - Irish - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 5:35 pm: I agree with Pat C. I didn’t understand if it was her tree, her neighbors, or a street tree. It seems that she might have overstepped her bounds and as others have said there appears to be more issues here than just this comment. However I think this shows exactly what Obama stated in the speech on race that he gave several weeks ago. While we have made progress in this area we are still dealing with deep resentment on both sides. We need to get beyond that, own up to our feelings and have meaningful dialogue to understand each other better. I thought this incident would be the perfect opportunity for Obama to reiterate the talking points of that speech and show us that he means to bring about change. I was very surprised when his campaign tried to distance themselves from this woman. AS far as the gun control issue. I would like to see one statistic published. How many Chicago school children have been shot by an individual that has a FOID card and who’s weapon is registered to them? I would be surprised if it is any. (I am not speaking of the NIU shootings, those were done by an individual who should not have fallen through the cracks.) Should all of the downstaters who enjoy hunting, trapshooting, and other shooting sports be penalized because Chicago wants to control what the rest of the State can do? Keep your children in school and educate them and stop using them as pawns in this political game. ( It was nice to see that Blago can find the Capitol Building though.) - Ken in Aurora - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 5:40 pm: - chiatty - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 2:55 pm: Tell me more about this all-powerful “gun lobby” you banners are so fond of invoking, will ‘ya? ISRA is incompetent (go look at their site, the legislative side hasn’t been updated since 3-27). No omnipotent “gun lobby” there. Did you stop to think that maybe the reason the bill failed is because it didn’t make any sense? Or, even more likely, that it’s just yet another incremental ban attempt by the usual cast of the state’s leading gun grabbers? I’m happy to see a majority of our legislators have common sense. - Princeville - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 6:08 pm: the story from the Tuesday Chicago Trib. is linked to at the end of the article Rich has a link to above. Tuesday’s article states it was the neighbor’s tree. But the case itself doesn’t sound like it would matter where the tree was, even down the street and around the corner, the case may still have merit. I would hope the city ordianance is more explainitory then what’s stated in paper. Disorderly conduct, ordianance bans conduct that disturbs or alarms people. Her behavior scared the little child. - The Conservative - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 7:02 pm: How is this “Gun control”? Have all democrats joined the communist party, with it’s leadership.Come on common sense, mandatory sentence (NO Parole) for using a gun in a crime. Leave those of us that have legal guns alone. If you want to stop something stop an ILLEGAL and send hin/her home. - State worker w/ an MBA - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 8:08 pm: My guns must be defective. I have 9 of them and have owned guns for over 30 years and none of them have been used in a crime or have they shot anyone. Also isn’t it already illiegal to own a handgun in the city of Chicago? - Howard Cosell - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 8:11 pm: If you call somebody, anybody, a ‘monkey’, context is everything… -Howard Cosell (deceased) - Gregor - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 8:23 pm: I listened to this gun debate online today. The republicans, particularly Bost, made some pretty outlandish stretches in coming up with scenarios where their constituents would be harmed or inconvenienced by the new regulation. At one point Mike was going on about how the Southern Illinois homeowner really NEEDED twenty new handguns a month, every month, unhindered by the new law: “You’d be surprised”, he said, and I desperately wanted the dems to take the bait and ask him just how dangerous it is to live down in his district… is there a huge problem with rabid wolverines, badgers holding a grudge, deer with pungi sticks in their antlers, killer cows with A-k’s, what? What is so threatening? The meth heads stealing ammonia down there are too shaky to shoot straight. The overly-rabid republican response and the tepid support from Southern dems points up a fundamental difference in thought processes and values. Chicago-based pols are not going to get a consensus on statewide gun laws until this intellectual and cultural barrier is breached, so my opinion is that to make progress on guns, take the reps and conservatives at their word and ask them to front bills that help enforce the existing laws much better as a first step. Repubs like to point to “we have adequate existing laws, but nobody enforces them”… as long as they don’t have to PAY anything to enforce them. When a repub fronts a bill funding better enforcement of existing laws, then I’ll take them more seriously regarding their enforcement arguments. As it stands, it’s not an opinion, more like an excuse. - teach your children well - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 9:01 pm: Rod was a peach today. At a meeting with Chicago-area highschoolers that were bussed down to lobby for the bill, he gave them a pep talk and advice on how to successfully get their bill to move. Read that sentence again, more slowly. I’ll wait for the laughter from that previous line to die down……. …….. …. okay. He told them the “right” way to get laws passed is to make every single deal a quid pro quo: “you want your bill passed, you have to pass mine first”. Because this has worked so well for Rod so far. Apart from the horrific example in practice of what Rod has preached, going on over two years now, is this really the civics lesson our kids are to take away? Nobody should ever vote for a bill just because it is good and necessary legislation, and for the good of the whole state? Everything has to be a horse trade, no decision is ever made on the merits, without a personal agenda? Okay, no way Illinois government is ever going to resemble Plato’s “Republic”…heck, based on Stu Levine, it’s more like Plato’s Retreat… but really, is there no middle ground anymore, if there ever was? You are with us or you are against us? Pay to play, whatever the currency of the day? That’s not what I want to teach my children about democracy or civics. But Rod got Arnie Duncan to take a lot of kids out of school to come down and learn “the Chicago Way”. - Gregor - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 9:10 pm: I would like some insight on why this bill was introduced today in the first place, if they knew there wasn’t going to be enough support to pass it. Either they were ill-informed, or this was never going to really go at all, was it just an attempt to jam up the Speaker and give Rod a new stump to holler from to distract from the scandals and malfeasance. This guy that put up the bill, is he a Rod guy or a Mike guy? Today seemed to be about getting people on the record so they could be smeared in campaign literature claims later. on both sides. The Repubs did a lot of this today in the house, pulling out some fancy parliamentarian tricks to propose a gas tax summer holiday and other measures that would never pass. But they got what they really wanted; the chance to make another bombastic Bill Black speech and take a record of Democratic “votes to raise your taxes” for their next campaign flyer. Springfield Kabuki: slow-motion drama at its finest. - Common Sense - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 9:33 pm: Chicago already has a handgun ban. Chicago already has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Washington DC has some of the strictest gun laws in the country with the commensurate highest gun crime and murder rates. Handguns except with some exceptions like alderman, police officers, some security guards, and a hand full or grandfathered in people from decades ago–Nobody can own a handgun in the city of Chicago not even in their own home for personal protection. An Army Reservist in Chicago,trained and certified in weapons, cannot own a military weapon in Chicago even for target practice. It is illegal. It can be a felony under certain circumstances. Yes, guns are a problem. But yes, there is a legitimate and not dangerous according to statistics hunting and outdoors culture in many parts of the United States and not just rural parts. When I was in the Boy Scouts I shot 22 caliber and shotguns and nobody ever died and it was a skill, taught discipline and was useful in Army Basic training. Some Chicago Public High Schools used to have firing ranges with zero fatalities, no accidents, no shootings, no killings, no suicides. To teach respect for a weapon, safety, and markmensship is good. Too many kids who get illegal (Read: already illegal) weapons do not know safety or how to properly use them and have no respect because of our culture both the culture of violence and lack of respect for life and the complete ban culture which makes weapons even more attractive. What about an old lady who uses a weapon for personal security (like cases you have heard on the news about an old lady shooting a robber and the State’s Attorney could charge her) or one of these Arab or Korean(or any ethnic group) store owners who has a weapon when he takes the cash at night to make a night bank deposit? These are criminals? There is a different culture in Southern Illinois and rural areas. It does have less murders and crime. (although that is changing with Crystal myth and the hip-hop rap culture of stupidity gripping now maybe 2 generations even white kids in rural areas) They are getting more gangs because of a bad urban influence. There are hunting accidents. There are idiots who hunt drunk. There are the tragedies like in Wisconsin and Minnesota where Hmongs and Whites have killed each other although rare at least 2 high profile incidents. There are accidents where tragically kids get guns. But there is also millions maybe tens of millions or hundreds of millions over time that hunt, fish, outdoors, target shoot, skeet, shotgun, different animal hunting, bow hunting, military, former military, gun collectors etc. These are good law abiding citizens. Gun laws will not stop the horrible tragedy of the young man who got hit with a baseball bat and was killed who was a good boy and a good boxer. I don’t want to sound cliche about banning baseball bats. Many of these other high profile shootings would of not been stopped by the one gun a month law or any other gun laws as they were not (in some cases) automatic weapons and were not bought legally. These already are illegally bought or stolen guns. These weapons are already out on the streets. The march by Jesse Jackson and Fr. Pleger dealt with a manufacturer of weapons that does not sell to civilians, certainly it would be nice to turn our AK-47s into plowshares but the problem is that law enforcement and military need them against gangs, terrorists, other countries etc. It is a naive approach that is not really dealing with the problem. Chicago Democrats really crack me up as they always have exceptions and prove that they are not only hypocrites but that guns do work to deter crime. Alderman carry weapons. All of the Daley family, kids, inlaws, even the grandmother while alive had ARMED police officer bodyguards. Alderman Ed Burke has armed police officer bodyguards and he himself carries a weapon. Alderman Tillman carried a weapon. Governor Blagojevich has State Police officers who carry weapons. It is the 11th ward precinct captains who illegally carry weapons, and city workers, and 19th ward sherriffs who legally carry but abuse it in shooting innocents. Why can’t law abiding citizens who are trained use a weapon? Switzerland has the highest rate of weapons per capita and mandates automatic weapons to be carried and in the homes of their milita. Go to the 41st ward (one of the safest, cleanest, and least crime, gun violence, and murders) in the city of Chicago–and it has high rates of gun ownership albeit with Chicago Police officers (some good, most good but also some bad), their families, wives, kids–the point being that number of weapons and access to weapons does not mean high crime. A pure correlation even if you disagree with causation. Lastly, not just the U of C studies, the Lott studies, the Dan Polsby studies at Northwestern but the FBI statistics state that when states (now many of them) have had concealed carry that crime went down. This makes logical sense. But even if you thought it was for homogeneous, low populated, rural states like Montana and Wyoming–what about multi-cultural, with large low income communities, urban areas like Florida and Texas. There are not many incidents of killings of those with Concealed Carry licenses. Crime has gone down in states that have Concealed Carry. Common Sense gun ownership, view of rights, gun training and safety, respect–these would help more. Crime is complicated and nuanced–the ever present call for more gun control by Daley and Arne Duncan insult our intelligence and do nothing to really do nothing to fight crime. Arne Duncan and the CPS exploit kids and use a political agenda that does not stop killings. Daley has already spent tens of millions of taxpayers dollars losing in court and may now be affected by upcoming Supreme Court battles on the 2nd Amendment. - leatherneck - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 9:58 pm: Gregor: What do you mean by “intellectual and cultural barrier” ?Are you saying that we downstaters are stupid compared to more intelligent enlightened beings in Chicago and the suburbs? I mean if only we would just get it through our heads that gun control is a great idea? Gee, where can I turn mine in ? I might add that on April 8th, in downstate Illinois.., in Stillman Valley, someone successfully shot and killed an intruder in a home invasion attempt. Such stories, underreported as they are.. underscore the fact that guns prevent crime. - The Conservative - Wednesday, Apr 9, 08 @ 10:20 pm: Nothing changes, the truth remains…. Guns don’t kill people do…. Lock up the people that comit the crimes or better yet exicute them where appropriate. - GH - Thursday, Apr 10, 08 @ 4:09 am: She should step down on her own. She’s clearly never going to be perceived, righty or wrongly, in a postive light. She is a liability and now and embarassment. - Pro-Gunner - Thursday, Apr 10, 08 @ 6:50 am: I would like the anti-gunners to take their arguments to the deceased victims of violent crime. What the deceased victims hear, I will hear. - Excessively rabid - Thursday, Apr 10, 08 @ 7:29 am: Mr. Knuckle should not object to the common use of his name. This is America. He should sue for royalties. Looking for deep pockets, Bill Cosby has been known to use the term. - Pro-Gunner - Thursday, Apr 10, 08 @ 8:07 am: It is hypocritical to call for private citizens to disarm and not to call for Mayor Daley’s bodyguards and Chicago aldermen to do likewise. - Pro-Gunner - Thursday, Apr 10, 08 @ 8:29 am: Unless one understands the value of protecting one’s life, one will never understand the mind of a gun-owner. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.