36 Comments - Wumpus - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:02 am: Let’s send them to Gurnee so they can ride the Roller Coasters at Great America. This is a difficult topic as there are several issues. Safety of guards and other prisoners, how will they function if returning to society other prisons. As silly as this may seem, prisoners need to be kept safe from other prisoners and becoming their prey. These bueracrats and guards, etc will find a way to do whatever they please. I have no issue with letting prisoners know why they are being transferred and granting them soem sort of trial. If they want better treatment, stay out of prison! - Vote Quimby! - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:23 am: I discount the testimony of former convicts, who in my experience tend (whether consciously or not) to exaggerate their claims. I wouldn’t think its out of the ordinary for inmates to lose 75 pounds….probably not the diet he was used to before incarceration, but he’s still alive. I can also say I believe there are guards who have little else to live for than lording over the inmates for their own satisfaction. As far as reform, I prefer to see a focus on reading and working skills (ala Shawshank) so that when people pay off their ‘debt to society’ they have a better shot at contributing to society when they are free. - milkman - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:23 am: If the reps are feeling sorry for the inmates maybe they should move them into their own house? These guys are there for a reason. They don’t send all inmates there who assault staff and other inmates. Only the worse because it’s the most expensive adult prison per inmate in the state. - Plutocrat03 - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:29 am: Looks like we have another case of legislatorss meddling in areas which are outside their areas of expertise. We do have professionals who are trained to make the kinds of decisions necessary to keep the penal system working. If we do not trust those in charge, replace them. If there are abuses, do an audit, determine the extent of the problem and take steps to ensure the abuse of the system will not happen again. This seems to be like many of the feel good unfunded mandates passed by the legislature which have unintended consequences. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:29 am: There are different types of people, so there are different types of people in prison. It is good that we have different types of incarceration in different types of jails. So, if legislators wish to oversee our prison system, the must first humbly appreciate all the variables that result in harsh solitary incarceration techniques for some of our worst criminals. Would they like to work at Tamms? What impact does it have on those who work there? We would prefer to live in a Tamm-less world, but we cannot. We are not the victimizers - they are. Those who wish to oversee and implement reforms within our prison system, need to first respect the men and women who have made it their lives to protect our communities through their work. This means that those empowered to legislate need to first listen with a mature heart, not a bleeding one. The men kept at Tamms are there for a real reason. They have brutalized others. They continue to display dangerous antics even when compared to other prisoners. Tamms exists because we have as a society, attempted to show humanity by reducing our usage of the death penalty. These men would have been put to death. They survive today because of our conscience, not theirs. We save countless lives when we recognize the need to create a prison like Tamms. These are lives within the prison population that are saved, prison personnel, you and I, as well as the life of the Tamms inmate. It is humane to do this. Those of us who know evil exists and those who face evil daily need to be respected by those who do not. - Leigh - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:37 am: Bleeding heart liberal. Oops, to harsh after a three day weekend? These are people not only guilty of committing a crime, but being violent and breaking rules during incarceration. They are being fed and given shelter. Good enough. How does the old saying go, If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. I think Ms. Hamos should work on the budget. - wordslinger - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:50 am: It seems to me the prison dynamic has changed over the last 30 years or so. Now, for a large portion of the prison population that is in gangs, the prison experience is just part of the life — keeping it real. You work for the gang on the outside, you work for them on the inside, similar to how it is in many of the penal systems in Latin America. With that population, the corrections people are no longer dealing with individuals, per se, but members of organized and violent criminal enterprises. It becomes more a matter of keeping the peace among potentially hostile factions within the prison community than on individual rehabilitation. From what Rich wrote, Tamm seems reasonable. From the article, it sounds like the inmates earned their way there. Humane treatment, absolutely. For those who need a second or third chance, rehabilitation. But I suspect that much of the correctional systems is devoted to just keeping a lid on potential violence to other prisoners and guards. Tamms sounds like leverage to achieve that. - Mountain Man - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 10:17 am: I am a strong Democrat, but this is where my party often loses me. This prison sounds to me like exactly what a prison is supposed to be. Prisoners should not want to go there and the fear of going back should deter them from committing any further crimes. Don’t “reform” the Tamms…use it as a model for all of the others. The inmates should not be given a opportunity to screw-up their way there…they screwed up to get locked up in the first place. Tamms (and other prisons like it) should be a “first stop” introduction into the penal system. - Ghost - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 10:25 am: The inmates hold the key to never entering, as-well-as leaving Tamms; they just have to comply with the prison rules. If they find the need to attack others then the apporpriate response is limiting their access to other people. - Johann - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 10:39 am: I’m sorry, but isn’t prison SUPPOSED to be just the slightest bit bad, so as to just possibly be a deterrent for returning?! Damn convicts live better nowadays than some people on the outside do. Some consider prison as a rite of passage or badge of honor; some gangs actually use prison time as criteria for status in the gang. That’s pathetic. If you can’t follow the laws of society, you go to prison. If you can’t follow the rules of prison, you go to Tamms. (Pardon me for paraphrasing “The Shawshank Redemption”.) Stop feeling sorry for these criminals. They broke the law, they should be punished. And punished accordingly. - steve schnorf - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 10:53 am: The prisoners at Tamms didn’t end up there because of random bad luck. They earned their way there, every step of the way, and they can (and many do) earn their way out. Does the prison sound inhumane? It’s supposed to be an incentive for the prisoners to behave in other correctional facilities so they don’t have to go to Tamms. - David Ormsby - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 11:37 am: At least Rep. Hamos has the courage to advance publicly her agenda. She doesn’t hide her views behind anonymous, snarling blog postings. - Kered Schnapp - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 11:38 am: This particular inmate (Reginald Berry) was sentenced to 30 years for first degree murder in 1989. He paroled out in 2006 after serving only 17 years of a 30 year sentence. During his incarceration he was sent to Tamms twice for misconduct at Stateville and Shawnee prisons. #1. No pity for this convict. He is a Four Corner Hustler, which is a Chicago Gang offshoot of the Vice Lords. He killed a man in a gang shooting in Chicago–that’s why he was originally sent to prison. He remained a gang chief through his entire incarceration, directing the illegal activity of other inmates. #2. How on earth did a murderer who was such a bad actor in prison that he got sent to Tamms TWICE manage to get 13 years shaved off his sentence for good behavior? - cermak_rd - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 11:51 am: Tamms sounds absolutely awful, but it’s the least bad solution to the problem of violent offenders who won’t even follow the rules in prison. There needs to be some place that prisoners who are a threat to staff and other prisoners can be safely imprisoned. Now, an audit should be done to ensure that the people being sent to Tamms are being sent because they are in fact violent and dangerous. It’s too expensive of an option to waste slots on non-violent or cooperative prisoners. - Johann - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 11:54 am: Precisely, Mr. Schnapp. Bravo. - archpundit - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 12:33 pm: There are several issues here other than whether they ‘deserve’ such treatment. The vast majority do, but there are other considerations. In terms of having a hearing before being sent to Tamms, I have to think that in a system that has the historical problems the Illinois prison system does, is fairly reasonable. Given these guys have records in prison that are problematic, this shouldn’t be a problem in most cases and will allow prison staff to better evaluate strategies for when to isolate prisoners and perhaps even find patterns. It also would leave a decent paper trail to demonstrate that if there isn’t unfair placement. The other problem with Tamms is that if these people are not in for life, the isolation can be counterproductive to the point it’s practiced. Is someone coming out of isolation that often results in mental disorders someone we want to see freed with those problems? Obviously with this group of inmates, that interaction cannot be what it is in a typical prison, but some sort of adjustment to isolation might be necessary. - amchen - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 12:51 pm: This legislation is not proposing to close Tamms down. Hamos’ intention is to shine some sunlight on what could potentially be an administrative black hole. When Tamms opened 10 years ago it was agreed that prisoners would be sent there for a year as punishment and then released back to the general prison population. Over a third of the Tamms inmates have been there for the whole 10 years it’s been open. 10 years of solitary confinement with out so much as a brush of contact with another human. Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are treated better. All this bill says is to keep to your original commitment of 1 year sentences at Tamms and hold a hearing to document why the prisoner is being sent. I don’t think this is bleeding heart liberal or partisan in any way. It’s just good government. It’s not about being soft with prisoners. We’re not talking about giving them cable tv and gourmet meals. Vanillaman is right; we should go take a visit there as either a worker or an inmate. Either way I bet you won’t walk away feeling like Tamms is just fine the way it is… - Southern Illinois - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 1:07 pm: Tamms was the answer to the States very dangerous situation it was faced with between the middle 80’s until 1995 when the system was completely out of answers in dealing with the gang problems and the violence, and the drug trade inside the prisons. When Tamms was being developed, officials toured Pelican Bay and designed a better model at the time. By the time the facility opened March 17, 1998 the staff prided themselves to make sure the facility could deal with the isolation and mental health issues, without compromising safety of the staff and inmates. Staff also updated the model to deal with the mental health issues due to isolation and no interaction between inmates. Several activist attempted to change Tamms on behave of the inmates housed at Tamms, and when it was said and done changes were made and part of the design of the prison was adjusted. Reginald Berry is a gang banger who earned his way to Tamms. What the politicians and the newspaper did not report is Mr. Berry’s discipline history during his incarceration. Mr. Berry participated in an organized manner to conduct his business inside the penal system. - walter sobchak - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 1:11 pm: Swelling prison populations, lack of budget, and bureaucratic thinking create prisons like Tamms. Maybe throw in the ACLU and activist attorneys as well. Forcing a human being to be in a small cell for 23 out of 24 hours is cruel and inhuman treatment. If a prisoner is violent he should be punished, if he is in a gang the gang should be separated and membership punished. There should be zero tolerance for bad behavior, zero tolerance for violence in prison…but that requires better paid, better trained, better motivated prison staff, more educational and rehabilitation opportunities, better facilities. We don’t want to pay for our penal code so we warehouse thousands. Among those thousands we wash our hands of some and stick them in a cage to save money. - steve schnorf - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 1:27 pm: Walter, we don’t stick them in a cage. They stick themselves in a cage, and work their way down to the worst of cages. - Johann - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 1:28 pm: Cruel and inhuman treatment? Kind of like the treatment the prisoners gave their victims to get sent to prison in the first place? If forcing a human being to be in a small cell for 23 out of 24 hours keeps officers and other staff- or even other inmates- from being harmed, I’m all for it. It’s prison, not summer camp. - walter sobchak - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 1:46 pm: Some sloppy hand washing thinking here. I’m all for using capital punishment rather than the sop of ‘life without possibility of parole’ for the worst of the worst. But, while alive, these are people, and have souls, and there is no rationale other than budgetary for such practices. Put them in chain gangs, make them pound rocks, use electro shock, serenade them with ABBA 24/7, there has to be something other than a Tamms like existence…especially since the Tamms regimen doesn’t seem to be working. - Johann - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 2:02 pm: Now THERE’S finally one of the first smart things I’ve read here- using capital punishment instead of life without parole. There’s a novel idea. But do please spare me the “they have souls” babble. Obviously they don’t or they wouldn’t have exhibited the behavior to get them sent to Tamms (or even to prison in the first place). They are being fed and housed- and at no charge to them. That’s a hell of a lot better deal than lots of people on the outside have. I don’t care one iota about inmates’ “souls”. But ABBA 24/7?! Talk about “cruel and inhuman treatment”… jeeez! Of course, after about 3 days of that, the inmates will probably voluntarily line up outside the execution chamber. Hmmmmm… - amchen - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 2:16 pm: FYI- Tamms costs two to three times as much as other prisons to house an inmate. Conservative estimates put the cost somewhere around $59,000 with advocates estimates as high as $90,000 per inmate. Menard, on the other hand, is closer to $19,000 per inmate. So, the saving money rationale does not apply. - mizjee - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 3:24 pm: No one is saying the Tamms inmates are angels. And there are certainly some inmates there who really do need to be in solitary for a while. The problem with Tamms is that it does NOT follow its original mission, and there are no clear guidelines for either admission or release. In other words, inmates can be sent there for any (or no)reason, held for an indeterminate amount of time, and never told when or if they will be reassigned into the general prison population. Many Tamms inmates will eventually be released into outside communities. I do not want resentful, paranoid, unrehabilitated men living in my community. Be selfish and think about what happens when these guys get out. - Freezeup - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 3:25 pm: The safety of the correctional officers seems to be the beginning, middle and end of this argument to me. Isn’t the soon to be opened Thomson prison of the same super-max design? Maybe they could feed them more and everybody will be happy. By the way, what ever happened to the guy who got the grant from Springfield to make fish patties from fish caught in Illinois rivers for the inmates? Perhaps fish sandwiches are the answer! - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 3:49 pm: I dealt with Berry, and others like him during the mid 90’s, when Berry was in general population in a medium security facility. He spent time on the “circuit” before that. He was a problem then, and was calling the shots for the FCH’s. He showed no willingness to renounce the violent lifestyle that got him locked up in the first place, and then sent to Tamms. Before anyone says Tamms is too rough, too inhumane or uncivilized, spend a few years dealing with Berry and others just like him, face to face, unarmed, and greatly outnumbered in a prison setting, as I have. Then, you will be glad, as I am, that Illinois has Tamms CC. - Anonymous - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 4:19 pm: mizjee, do many prisoners get released directly from Tamms to the outside? I don’t really think so. Part of the Tamms genesis is, in terms of the control of inmate behavior, just exactly how do you discipline a prisoner serving a life term? Threaten him with jail? - nieva - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 5:23 pm: mizjee, Don’t think for a minute that any “reforming” goes on in the prison system. We house and feed and try to keep them from killing staff. I worked at Marion Federal in the 1980’s after a couple of guards were stabbed to death and I for one was glad to know that most of the inmates locked up for 23 hours per day could not get at me for that time. You must understand these inmates have really screwed up to get to tamms in the first place,and I know for a fact that the food in prison will put weight on you!! - Arthur Andersen - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 7:12 pm: If reports from the front lines are needed, let’s send Stoolie Stu Levine and Steve Loren down there to serve their time. Stoolie clearly could serve as a father figure to the inmates and Loren demonstrated a great deal of writing skill based on what the Feds reported. - moby - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 8:18 pm: geez you guys. do you really think that torturing somebody by locking them up 23-24 hours per day, w/o any human contact, for almost TEN YEARS is right?! what kind of people are WE that would agree to do that? - Southern Illinois Voter - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 8:43 pm: We are kind of people that have to lock people up that say, “If you let me out of here, I’m going to kill again.” There’s that type of inmate at Tamms - the type just looking for a weak moment for his next victim. Tamms is just where that type & others of his caliber need to be. And believe me, there is more than just a few. I’ve been to Tamms - it’s just what is needed. - Democrat - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:15 pm: I think the state reps. and other law makers should work at Tamms for a month…. They would have a different outlook. - Hunter - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 9:55 pm: I know about this place because my colleague’s grandson is there. I’m a law and order Republican and I draw the line at this kind of place. What you all are missing is that we should not treat Americans this way–we are paying money to inflict them with mental problems that the guards, the other inmates and eventually their families have to deal with. This kid gets out in 6 years. I’m all for punishment, but not stupidity. No excuse for this. - Ellie - Tuesday, May 27, 08 @ 10:02 pm: Other states have been getting rid of their supermax prisons because they see what a stupid waste of money it is. Illinois is too defensive to ever make a good decision. There is no need for this prison–they already have perpetual solitary in other prisons. The IDOC is so screwed up it is unbelievable and every one who works there knows it. They couldn’t make a good decision if they wanted to. I worked as a nurse at Tamms for one month and believe me, that place is not right. - moby - Wednesday, May 28, 08 @ 8:44 am: hey, Tamms lovers: maybe you think we should also put prisoners on the rack, use thumbscrews, and beat the soles of their feet? if torture ever becomes the norm, then nobody is safe… Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.