49 Comments - sal-says - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 1:31 pm: Ain’t that nice. Be nicer if he reduced his up to 4600% insurance increase he’s planning for retired State workers. - Ghost - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 1:31 pm: So Quinn is trading away items the union wants before negotiating for what he wants. WOuld he hav not been better served to open up a dialogue with I’ll drop the 2% if you support the temproary redirection of funds. My blago governance by press release sense is tingling. - PONster - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 1:45 pm: Meanwhile StateWideTom and his cronies were on their whining about how …..oh well how they have muffed everything they touched for the past 10+ years…it was riveting - party of one - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 1:46 pm: What happened to that Republican Sponsor that Lauzen swore was ready to take over the bill in the House? He wouldn’t have lied about that, would he? - off the record - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 1:59 pm: I think they need to teach some good manners in the schools - - to the teachers!! - Easy - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:10 pm: the proponents of sb 600 talk about reform, and then ask Froehlich to sponsor. more sad than ironic. - Anonymous - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:10 pm: How much money is involved in the decision not to charge teachers more for their pensions. And where will Quinn make it up. By taxing the middle class even more? Or maybe he “exaggerated” the deficit a bit to allow for powerful political groups to get a pass while still getting big money from regular folks. At the end of the day, the unions/state bureaucrats and corporate interests will win with ole Pat, who isn’t tough enough to withstand them. The middle class will lose and lose big. Because we are fools. Meanwhile, Quinn is on his way to becoming that unfortunate appendage to the corrupt Blago administration–a two year part of 8 years of Democratic corruption and bad management. - phocion - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:10 pm: Shocking display of incivility an disrespect by public school teachers. All incoming public employees are going to have to get used to the idea that their pensions aren’t going to be as sweet as the old days. Oh, and their radio ad about “immorality” was ridiculous. Public ed folks, you’re going to have to feel the sting like everyone else. - Anonymous - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:26 pm: Don’t give up on the employee unions yet. Quinn is terrified of them, and this dropping of the 2 percent increase is likely only the beginning of a long humiliating retreat for the hapless Pat. And Ghost is right…why give up an obvious bargaining chip. I say..because Pat can’t negotiate. We’ve hired us another governor who isn’t competent to represent the people of Illinois. And he can’t attract the kinds of people who can negotiate to do it for him. Yes, the unions have him on the run already so either he “fibbed” about the deficit or somebody weaker, most likely regular taxpayers, will have to bear an even higher burden of the state’s alleged financial crisis. - wordslinger - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:32 pm: Tough crowd. They first started booing when Quinn said “we all have to work together to solve our problems…” Must be Phillies fans. - fed up - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:41 pm: Shocking display of incivility an disrespect by public school teachers. N0 it is correct to let the man know his ideas are not appreciated. The first oreder of buisness for the Gov and legislature should be to give themselves a pension cut and increase there contributions before brining it up to the employees. I dont know maybe no more working in a higher paying job for 2 weeks and getting a higher pension. - Pat Collins - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:48 pm: talk about reform, and then ask Froehlich to sponsor And what choice do they have? You need some D to take lead, to move a bill in the House. Remember how many R senators originally sponsored the bill, then took their names off when pressure was applied. Not, I note, the Senate R leader, though - Princess - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:51 pm: Anonymous @ 2:26 “Yes, the unions have him on the run already so either he “fibbed” about the deficit or somebody weaker, most likely regular taxpayers, will have to bear an even higher burden of the state’s alleged financial crisis. – Just what is a non-regular taxpayer? And why are you weaker than say me? Do you think I get a pass on increased taxes if you have to pay them? I don’t see this as you do, as a ‘power’ between union workers and state citizens. I am a state citizen and I will be paying any tax increase that might be asked of you. - Downstater - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:52 pm: Teachers in general don’t have a clue as to how good they have it. - siriusly - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 2:56 pm: Give Quinn credit for “telling the truth” to a hostile crowd. Take away points for being Blago-ish by patting himself on the back and using Blago-slang like “the will of the people.” - siriusly - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:00 pm: Downstater - you’re mostly right. Teachers deserve to be paid better and they should be, since they aren’t the view the pension as deserved, etc. I think that is true of many (not all) public workers who get pensions, including legislators. What they all need to realize is that the pensions are already bankrupting our state, that pensions are an antiquated retirement vehicle and that it’s not about whether or not we respect them - its about balancing our books with fair and cost-effective retirement benefits. We need defined contribution benefits for all state employees now. Including elected officials. Pensions should be eliminated for all new employees. There is nothing unfair about a two-tier system if you are making a change towards a better and more fair one. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:21 pm: Downstater, as the son of a former teacher, I don’t think you have any clue what you’re talking about. If the job is so sweet, why don’t you apply? - Jacksonville - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:37 pm: The main reason the pension system is in such bad shape is all the skipped payments. Only a few end up with lavish pensions, ie. the two week jobs as Directors. - A Citizen - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:41 pm: With Administrators paid up to $400,000 and Assistants and Assistants to Assistants paid 6 figure salaries, Far too little of the money already invested in education reaches the classrooms. The utilization of the funding already going to education must be recast with less overhead load and more going downward into the actual schools and classrooms. They may still need more funding but they sure don’t need $400,000 Administrators ! - OneMan - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:42 pm: Rich, I think you might agree in some ways being a teacher now is a better gig than it was 30 years ago… - Gene Parmesan - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:43 pm: Downstater, the bad teachers know how good they have it and the good teachers know how bad they have it. They way we compensate teachers is a joke. Setting aside the debacle that is tenure and the extreme measures administrators must take to remove a teacher for poor performance, we pay teachers based on graduate hours and years in the position. I would advocate we scrap all that and start giving school boards more say on salaries. It is beyond comprehension that we pay Phys Ed teachers and Math teachers on the same pay scale, despite lack of competent Math teachers and the plethora of Phys Ed teachers. The current system simply does not compensate the truly gifted teachers, and protects the boneheads. - soccermom - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:45 pm: Big points to Governor Quinn for standing up in front of an unfriendly crowd and (if you’ll forgive my unreconstructed sexism) taking it like a man. The guy has some guts. - YNM - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 3:57 pm: siriusly , it’s a bit of a stretch to say that the pensions now are bankrupting the state … the reality is the state has continuously underfunded the pensions, raided them, swept funds and taken pension holidays … so the money is going somewhere, but not to pensions. agreed … big points for standing up in front of hostile crowd. However, courage will be defined by what he does once he walks back across the street. And I’m not sure he gains a lot of points by insinuating that the teachers in the crowd today were like middle school students … he asked to come to their event and he has to be willing to listen to what they want to share. He wanted to pass the blame and they simply made it clear that it definitely wasn’t the teachers of the state who created the budget problems. And last I checked he’s been in Springfield quite a while during some of that decision-making. Certainly teachers have to feel the pain just like every other taxpaying citizen … I believe their point is that they should not have to feel it *more* than those who aren’t in their field - that the budget should not be balanced on their backs. That’s hard to argue with. - anon - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:01 pm: It is quite apalling that a group of teachers acted this way - have some cooth! Kudos to the Governor for not losing his cool with such a RUDE group of people. - Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:04 pm: The 2% for teachers alone is around $180-200 million if my abacus is working right today. - Bill - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:17 pm: I estimate that the now defunct proposal to increase the payroll tax on teachers and sate employees 2% would have yielded about $300 million with no increase in benefits. In addition to being immoral this idea is also unconstitutional. It is not like the state was going to use this money to pay down some of its pension debt. They were going short the plans another $4 billion. Sure, everybody who would not be affected thinks this is just great. Let someone else pay for the state’s mistakes but wait until the President raises their payroll tax while cutting their social security benefits. Then we will see what they have to say about this flawed concept. - Anonymous - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:18 pm: Thanks AA. So, I wonder, who will pay the $180-200 million. There is no free lunch. Or will we suddenly find that the deficit is quite as big as we were told it was by the Quinnsters. - Anonymous - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:18 pm: Sorry, I mean, “not quite as big” - ZC - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:19 pm: I get tired personally of the “we’ve underfunded the pensions!” refrain. OK. We’ve underfunded the pensions. True. Plenty of people share blame for that, including Joe Q Taxpayer. That said, what’s done is done. We’ve got to deal with the present day. I find the constant refrain about the past here very unproductive for addressing our current budget difficulties in the present. - just sayin' - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:41 pm: That’s fantastic news for Republicans about SB600. And wow, GOP Chairman Andy McKenna’s people are really sore losers. I would think they would be used to losing by now. - Bill - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:51 pm: Telling the truth about the cause of the pension plans problems is a lot more productive than than lying to the public and telling them that the problems stem from lavish benefits, which is total bull. The benefits are mediocre at best. The plans are in trouble due to the malfeasance of elected officials over the past 3 decades. If the public elects bozos like Thompson, Edgar, Ryan, Blago, and then allow Madigan to run the state into the hole they should be the ones to pay up, not their loyal servants who have no say in the matter other than their own single vote. - Reddbyrd - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:51 pm: Let’s stop the nonsense and do something nice for a change…. http://billhollandkissapig.com/donations.html - Princess - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:54 pm: Okay, I had enough time to watch all three video (was this capfax very own video with the new cam?)and I really don’t see the big bad crowd thing. Yeah, Gov. spoke and they responded. I didn’t hear a boo, I heard “neither did we” and “not on our backs”, but granted if they would have let him finish a sentence would have been more ‘polite’. I can’t blame the teachers what with all the proposals ect floating around the last couple months. They’ve been talking major money out out of our pockets plus a tax increase inwhich we’d also pay. ZC “I find the constant refrain about the past here very unproductive for addressing our current budget difficulties in the present”.— I don’t agree with this statement at all. For people to understand what it is all about and how we got here, one can not drop the history of the past, it’s pertains to the situation. And, Bill, I hate it when I have to agree with you as you seem to take delight in agitating,I’d hate to take any glee away :-0 but your right on in what you have said several times in the last few weeks on this issue. It is nice to have a governor who comes out and faces the people, whether it’s state workers, teachers, whoever. I think it shows signs of a leader who is not afraid to lead, communicate and work together , something we’ve not had in a long time. - ZC - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 4:55 pm: My gut feeling is that we pay IL teachers way too little while they are in the classroom, and then we pay them a bit too much in terms of pensions and retirement benefits. It seems to me this is the opposite set of incentives we want, to attract the best and brightest to our classrooms. Lower, less competitive salaries = best talent goes elsewhere. Quite generous pension / retirements + very difficult to fire = encourages go-along, get-along “lifers,” make-no-waves types, take no risks, just get that pension, get that pension, tunnel-visioned educators. That’s a gross oversimplification, of course, but I think there is something to it. - Bill - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 5:01 pm: How does being hard to fire, which is another lie, by the way, encourage “go along get along”? If they were so hard to fire they would be not be afraid take more risk, speak their minds, etc. and their pensions are anything but overly generous. Your lies are becoming their own contradiction in a single post. - ZC - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 5:28 pm: Bill, Any public stats / studies that show it is not hard to fire an IL public school teacher, please provide. I’d love to be proven wrong about this one, honestly. In the meantime, however, in the absence of evidence, only vague allegations that “It’s much easier to fire an IL teacher than people say,” I’ll rely on what seems to me one of the most thorough media investigations of the subject: http://thehiddencostsoftenure.com/ . If you disagree with the study, fine, but what are the real figures? About what % of IL teachers are getting fired for job incompetence? - MikeintheSuburbs - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 5:44 pm: It’s interesting that public sector workers think they should have guaranteed salaries, health insurance and pensions, when the rest of us who are paying for those things don’t have them ourselves. I am on a public board for a unit of local government and when I suggested that maybe we shouldn’t give cost of living raises to our employees this year given what is happening in the economoy I got my head chopped off. As much as I support our teachers, they have to learn that those of us who pay their salaries are hurting and they are going to have to share the pain. - Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:04 pm: Redd, that is one thing you and I can agree on. Good post and kudos to Bill Holland for stepping up. - Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:07 pm: There is nothing unfair about a two-tier system if you are making a change towards a better and more fair one. Not that I am advocating either way, but someone invested in a defined contribution plan within the last 2 years who is ready to retire might disagree with you. At least from the employee perspective. Does anyone still have a 401k, or are they all 201k’s now? One could argue a properly funded pension could be touted as a worthy societal goal for more workers in both sectors, and not something to be erased off the planet. - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:18 pm: So the ‘pain’ of the budget situation remains on the taxpayers who fund the system more than those who benefit from it. My hopes for an evenhanded Illinois executive branch continue to dim. - Bobs yer - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:27 pm: First, I’m not a teacher. Teachers in Illinois do not pay social security (they do pay medicare tax) and therefore are not eligible for social security when they retire. The teachers retirement is it. Social security is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. Teacher’s retirement is backed by a bunch of corrupt Illinois politicians who will use and abuse the money as they see fit. Gov., you should check this stuff out before you start ripping teachers off. Most people react negatively when you try to pick their pockets. - Bill - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:28 pm: ZC, That whole series is based on anecdotes and numbers about how many teachers have actually been fired. What the tenure law and union contracts do is guarantee due process during disciplinary proceedings similar to that of state employees. There are several reasons why so few teachers are fired. Many, most of the real bad ones, resign rather than go through hearings. Many times the managers(principals?) are either too lazy or too incompetent to go through the process. If a teacher is bad it is not that hard to get rid of them. Give them due process, follow the contract, and they are gone. It is really pretty simple. That fact that management doesn’t do their job properly is not the fault of labor. - Bill - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:34 pm: ==About what % of IL teachers are getting fired for job incompetence?== Probably about the same as the percentage of medical doctors who lose their license or the percentage of lawyers who get disbarred. - Bill - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:37 pm: ==So the ‘pain’ of the budget situation remains on the taxpayers who fund the system more than those who benefit from it.== Those who benefit from the system are the school children of Illinois, their parents, and all other taxpayers who benefit from an educated citizenry. Not many teachers make more than they could in private industry. They are givers not takers. - YNM - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 6:58 pm: The number of teachers actually fired does not indicate necessarily how easy or difficult it is to fire them. Tenured teachers are entitled to due process. There’s no conspiracy in that. Bad teachers can be fired. And plutocrat, you stated “the taxpayers who fund the system” … you know who funds TRS primarily, correct? The teachers. Teachers pay 9.4 percent of their salary into TRS. The Districts pay their share. You know who DOES NOT fund TRS? The taxpayers. Because the government doesn’t put the money into TRS it is obligated to. And, in fact, the GA votes regularly to not fund the pensions as required. In fact, it is pretty much an annual tradition. TRS has one of the highest rates of returns on its investments, even with the down market. The one missing piece is the State’s contributions. There’s no way around that. It’s a fact and your legislators would tell you the same thing if they were being honest. When teachers get into the profession, many do so with the knowledge that they will be paid okay, but not great, but they will have a decent and secure pension when they retire. It’s a trade-off many have been willing to make. With some of the changes Quinn is proposing I believe we will see fewer and fewer of our best and brightest willing to teach. But then again, it’s an easy 8 month job that is overpaid with an overly-rich pension, so I’m sure there will be tons of people willing to take those teaching jobs. - School's Out - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 8:12 pm: “If a teacher is bad it is not that hard to get rid of them. Give them due process, follow the contract, and they are gone.” As Scott Reeder recently noted, IEA is all about due process-except when it comes to the TRS executive director. “TRS has one of the highest rates of returns on its investments, even with the down market.” Correct. TRS used to have the lowest returns of the state pension funds throughout the 1980s and 1990s, sometimes trailing ISBI and SURS by embarrassingly large amounts. What happened to cause this remarkable turnaround? A close look at TRS’s annual financial reports and other events suggests that the fund’s returns improved after the IEA lost control of the TRS Board of Trustees to the evil cabal led by John Glennon and Stuart Levine. As Gov. Quinn would say, just “telling the truth” here. Figures don’t lie, etc. If those teachers wanted to boo and vent on people, they should have focused on those TRS trustees (including an officer of the IEA) who ate, drank, and slept their way through the whole scandal and never said a word, noticed a thing, or stood up to Levine, then give the Sgt. Schultz excuse when the stuff hit the fan. They should boo their union “leaders” who dealt away pension contributions year after year (going back all the way to Thompson) in exchange for some short-term cash. Their “where’s mine” attitude defames the hard-working teachers throughout Illinois and makes the legitimate argument against goofy schemes like two-tier, defined contribution and such harder to make. BTW, let’s hope that the IEA’s fearless leader doesn’t end up receiving State health insurance. If one looked up “adverse selection” in the dictionary, his photo would likely be found. - Ahem...The Real Anonymous - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 8:26 pm: ========== Anonymous @ 2:26 “Yes, the unions have him on the run already so either he “fibbed” about the deficit or somebody weaker, most likely regular taxpayers, will have to bear an even higher burden of the state’s alleged financial crisis. ============== If Anonymous @ 2:26 has any feasible statements that can support the phrase “‘the state’s alleged’ financial crisis”, I’m sure the majority of the folks living here would be all ears. - Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 9:13 pm: Bill, your point re: the teachers vs. lawyers and docs being let go is interesting and one I hadn’t heard before. I have wondered about the percentage of superintendents being terminated vs. classroom teachers-suspect the sup’s are doing better as a group if one takes out all of the settlement agreements, golden parachutes, “early retirements,” and the other artifices constructed to get rid of a sup who isn’t cutting it without the hassle of termination. - YNM - Wednesday, May 6, 09 @ 9:17 pm: Actually, if you did your homework you would know that Blago’s folks approached TRS and tried to get them to invest the way he/they wanted them to … the TRS board said no thanks. And the numbers show that was a good decision. So, School’s Out, you are clearly anti-IEA … even getting personal regarding Ken Swanson (classy, by the way) … yet you haven’t actually addressed the pension funding issue or the Governor’s proposal. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.