DNA bill beaten back
Thursday, May 21, 2009 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Kinda surprising that this DNA bill went down, considering the get tough on crime attitude of the GA in the past and the fact that it passed the House by an almost unanimous vote…
A controversial measure that would have required people arrested on felony charges to contribute a DNA sample to create a state database was narrowly rejected today by the state Senate.
The measure, sponsored by state Sen. Matt Murphy (R-Palatine), would require people arrested to submit to a mouth swab to collect DNA in much the same way arrestees are required to submit to fingerprinting. The DNA collection would be expunged in the event the person was found not guilty or the felony charges were dismissed.
With the Illinois State Police already facing a serious backlog in DNA processing, lawmakers said the measure would not have gone into effect until 2013.
Since it didn’t take effect until 2013 anyway, there was no real rush to pass it.
More…
“The innocent have nothing to fear from this legislation…” said state Sen. Pamela Althoff (R-McHenry).
Sentences like that always make me a little nervous.
* But, the rhetoric wasn’t exactly cool on the other side…
“It’s 25 years later, but we’re approaching George Orwell’s ‘1984’ right now,” said Sen. Kwame Raoul (D-Chicago), who opposed the proposal, saying it would have violated the due-process and equal-protection clauses of the Illinois Constitution.
“To have an officer come up to me without probable cause, arrest me and stick a swab in my mouth is against my constitutional rights,” Raoul said.
A cop shouldn’t be arresting anybody without probable cause.
* Both sides invoked the name of Barack Obama during the debate, claiming he’d either support or oppose the legislation. Sen. Rickey Hendon had this to say…
“I’m just sick and tired of people who hate Barack Obama who (are) always on tv against Barack Obama acting like they had a text message from him while driving this morning on the way to the Capitol telling them about this bill. It’s outrageous. You wasn’t with Obama, quit quoting his name.”
Discuss.
- Fan of the Game - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:09 am:
Utterances like Sen Althoff’s make me nervous, also. Sen. Raoul has taken the proper stance, despite his flawed law enforcement rationale. For once, I agree with Sen. Hendon, though I really don’t care who invokes the name of the president.
- WOW - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:11 am:
Having listened to the debate I think hendon’s comment was directed as much at Sen. Sandoval as at Sen. Murphy. You may recall how Sandoval courted McCain for a bit and hendon jumped all over Sandoval for his texting while driving bill. But then again hendon was not always a friend of Obama’s either.
- A Naughty Moose - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:16 am:
There aren’t many things Rickey Hendon is an authority on, but “You wasn’t with Obama” is one. As any Statehouse watcher knows, this joker was always out to get Barack. Now he wants to pretend he was BO’s biggest fan. Lame! He should take his own advice and shut up.
- lake county democrat - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:16 am:
Hmmm — the near certainty that this measure would have kept some innocent people out of prison vs. the possiblity that the information might leak to some secret “24″-like organization capable of taking the DNA, creating a great database, and using it for evil purposes. I can see how they struggled with it.
- Dan S, a Voter and Cubs Fan - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:31 am:
What is the difference between this and finger print technology when it became standard operating procedure?
- wordslinger - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:31 am:
Hat tip to the Senate on the DNA bill.
You need a judge to sign a warrant before you can stick your nose in my house and root around. I want a judge to sign a warrant before you can stick a swab inside my mouth and root around for my DNA. Don’t worry — it’s not going anywhere.
–“The innocent have nothing to fear from this legislation…” said state Sen. Pamela Althoff (R-McHenry).–
That’s just a profound misunderstanding of basic American principles of individual liberty versus the enormous power of the state.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:32 am:
“I’m just sick and tired of people who hate Barack Obama who (are) always on tv against Barack Obama acting like they had a text message from him while driving this morning on the way to the Capitol telling them about this bill. It’s outrageous. You wasn’t with Obama, quit quoting his name.”
Obama is everyone’s president, and can be quoted, regardless of who is doing the quoting. Secondly, no one on TV is saying they “hate” Obama. No one. The scenario he creates where the Obama hater is receiving a text message from the President while driving is also ridiculous. If he is sick and tired, this statement is also demonstrating that he isn’t thinking either.
And we all know how this guy really feels about Obama, and he is late to the game in sharing his adoration and issuing his threats to those who do not share his adoration.
- ahoy - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:38 am:
should we stop finger printing people since it’s against Raoul’s constitutional right?
- Dan S, a Voter and Cubs Fan - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:38 am:
wordslinger - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:31 am: Is a warrant required to get a finger print???
- Leroy - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:42 am:
I think the ‘get tough on crime attitude’ only applies to teenagers, sexual predators, and grifters.
People who use guns in violent crimes, crimes committed in high crime areas, mobsters, corrupt pols….well, not so much.
- wordslinger - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:51 am:
Dan S. The Cubs Fan, point well taken. I don’t know the reason why not, and a quick google got me nothing. The DNA method, to me, is certainly more intrusive.
Speaking of fingerprinting, there’s an interesting ongoing case right now in St. Louis. Apparently, the St. Louis PD dusted all the Cubs bats and could find no evidence that any player had picked one up recently.
- charles in charge - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:54 am:
You don’t need a court order to fingerprint, but DNA and fingerprints are not equivalent.
Fingerprints can only be used for identification, whereas DNA is a complete genetic map and personal history. Also, DNA can be planted more easily than a fingerprint.
Not to mention that looking for a match in a database for a sample obtained in an unsolved case is nowhere near as accurate a science as using databases to obtain corroboration of the guilt of an existing suspect. Paradoxically, in the unsolved case scenario, the bigger the database, the greater the chances of a false positive.
- Amy - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 12:18 pm:
Sen. Raoul strikes out again if he’s thinking of running for anything greater than bobby rush’s seat. DNA only matters to the Raouls when it clears someone of a crime. too bad we have to keep paying to fight criminals who could be in prison with the help of more DNA evidence.
- Ravenswood Right Winger - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 12:50 pm:
Does the great Kwame Raoul feel that those cameras for catching red light violators and those Chicago Police blue light cameras are also part of an Orwellian plot?
- Dan S, a Voter and Cubs Fan - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 1:42 pm:
wordslinger - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 11:51 am: Speaking of fingerprinting, there’s an interesting ongoing case right now in St. Louis. Apparently, the St. Louis PD dusted all the Cubs bats and could find no evidence that any player had picked one up recently. : Oh they have been picked up just not used (players use batting gloves). I’ll be down there tonight and I’ll help Lou get things straightened out. As a Cubs fan I can only tip my cap to the Cardinal pitchers. I’ll take my starting pitching only giving up 2 or 3 runs a game any day. Any given day anything can happen, that’s why they play the game!!! GO CUBS GO
- reality check - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 1:55 pm:
Whatever problems Hendon and Obama had in the past, Hendon campaigned hard for him, and got his organization to do so. He and they made trips to adjacent states weekend after weekend. There is no doubt he supported Obama as much as someone could. Whether you like him or not, Hendon makes some good points. I thought he did a great job in the impeachment hearings when other legislators were just basking in self-righteousness.
- Scooby - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 2:16 pm:
Did Hendon plug his book?
- Reality Check - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 2:29 pm:
Dear Mr./Ms. 1:55 p.m. - Please get your own name and leave mine alone. Thanks.
- Wondering - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 3:54 pm:
Why in the heck was Barack Obama even brought up in this bill’s discussion?
How many states allow for this process?
What have been the results?
Just what information could be extracted from the genetic map that would be so damm alarrming?
To me this is one of those NO Brainers that should have been done years ago like a 10 yr min for any crime involving a gun.
JMO
- been there - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 4:32 pm:
Whether we like Kwame Raoul or not, it’s true that driving while black is still probable cause to some police officers.
- fed up - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 4:35 pm:
While I agree this law goes to far it is sad for the state every time ricky hendon or Kwame is quoted in the press.
- ahem - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 7:57 pm:
It seems to me that if DNA is disallowed, then fingerprints might as well be disallowed as well to be consistent. Both are imperfect types of evidence. So we’ll just throw out the two types of evidence in court and at the police station. No more fingerprints or DNA. It’s a shame that DNA evidence will be excluded from arrest procedures because unless I’m not understanding the news more false convictions have been overturned than created by DNA evidence - by a wide margin. Also, many violent sex offenders and psychopaths might be taken off the streets by a more extensive DNA database - to the great benefit of potential victims. Maybe the taking of DNA evidence will be routine in a few decades and now is just not the time for it. Fingerprints took a very long time to become standard tools of criminal investigation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint#History_and_validity
- ahem - Thursday, May 21, 09 @ 8:01 pm:
By the way, I find it kind of remarkable that the whole thread up until now was devoid of any reference to Jim Thompson and the Gary Dotson affair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Dotson